There has been many things about evangelism that Ive been skeptical of for many years. One of these things is when the priest touches you, blesses you, and supposedly to some - heals in the process. A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to go to an evangelistic Catholic ceremony, with my mother, and it was with a priest who was a reknowned cancer healer whom was on Unsolved Mysteries. He was known to bring this womans cancer out of remission, whom died many years after the remission due to another condition. She was given six months to live, and lived three years afterwards.

So I decided, well, I don't really have an actual disease, but I have been diagnosed with a mental disorder that I don't believe is there. In a way I believe it is there as much as God exists. But, becuase I'm stubborn the way I am, the disease also involves (involved) speaking/hearing the afterlife (not naming names). So I refused for many years to take medications, until now. I haven't managed to get to that point yet, but it's in the works. I did go to the ceremony to see if this priest coul'd see me in person and give me a healing. But, it never came down to it.

I was a nice experience, but, I walked out of the ceremony twice in tears. Thinking to myself, what if he can't heal whatever it is going on with me because he doesn't believe this kind of thing happens to people like me? Because in order for it to work, I have to believe in God at least. There's only a small fraction in me that does.

Time went on through the mass, and I did see him go through a few healings, a few people fell down when he did his 'healing ceremony', even in an instance he even picked out a woman in the crowd by the color of her shirt and her hair, and found something wrong with her. He was almost playing psychic at some point. Why is it he coul'd do that and not notice me? I had psychic connections, and you can't what ---- see me? Sense me? So I got more and more skeptical.
Finally there was communion, and I hesitated, told my mom I was going to wait outside. "Aren't you going up for communion?" she asked me...so I thought - ok I'll see what happens. All along, for everyone going to communion, he gave one touch to the forehead in the sign of the cross. Meaning he touched everyone going to communion. So I went through, he did the same with me and I turned the corner to go back to the seat - and I looked down and there was a lady laying on the floor with her eyes closed. Another one of those people that was 'overcome'.

So, I was at my wits end about it, I couldn't take it anymore. It was a five hour ceremony, the longest Ive been in a mass. I went outside before the whole thing was done. Ma told me that he went around to greet everyone personally afterwards and possibly heal people. But, I just thought it was a matter of the priest touching you in a way.

It's really about how much you believe in God or the Holy Spirit, or Jesus isn't it? To be overcome so much that you can't help but be overwhelmed that you lose all power over your body when your healed?

My question all in all is, if it was any other religion, woul'd it work any different?

i think you summed it up with how much you believe in god..if one does not beleive god is a healer how can one be healed throw god? if one has the faith of a grain of mustard seed they move mnts..the priest doesnt not have power to heal ...god moves through men to heal. but it is based upon your faith. i know a lady who has been healed from a tumor while standing in a pray line...it was removed from her before she ever reached the pastor..it was her faith that healed her it was the mercy and power of god that healed her..she has now been cancer free for many years and still praises god for it..pflack if you beleive god can heal you he can and will but you gotta give him the glory for it. and got to take that step of faith yourself. and trust in god gotta seek god whole heartedly...as for beinging so overwhelmed you lose power over your body..not sure i agree with that..seen alot of laying on of hands and the power of god flowing through ppl not seen ppl just hit the floor and flop all over the place like their lifeless or whatever youd like to call it..god wants ppl to know that by his mercy power and might we can be healed in a full awareness ..just my insight on what ive seen.

You are right, PHlack, in that faith is what's really necessary for a healing to work. The difference between these Catholic healings and most other Christian healings is that while most non-catholic healings tend to use a person of faith for these healings, which is pretty much what you attended, Catholics also tend to rely on a lot of relics and and sacred objects in their healings.

Some of these Catholic healings which don't rely on a holy man or women for the ceremony, such as the healing waters of Lourdes, have seen many unexplained miracles. The important thing, nevertheless, is that the person believes in whatever it is that's going to be doing the healing.

I too don't believe in this 'dropping to the floor' because I've seen it in action and it's crap. However, on the flipside, my had a back problem for many years, she also had a disease in the back from a negligent doctor who didn't sterilize needles called Discitis. She could not have a lamenectomy because if they opened the back the disease would instantly kill her (that nearly happened and I had a dream about it before saying 'Mummy don't have the operation, I saw you in a dream in an operation and the room went red and you died'. They found the Discitis JUST before they were about to operate). Anyway, years later she woke up out of bed and fell to the ground. Se was paralysed from the waist down. No one knows what caused it besides the back (she has a smashed tail bone, middle back has discs out and so does the neck). They told her she would never walk again. She prayed to God constantly and after 3 years guess what? She started walking. She walks today.

I also have a story about myself. I came home from the beach one night, and neing a heavy smoker I started coughing...alot. It kept up all night til 5 am in the morning and I was actually vomiting up black crap from my lungs. This went on for weeks. If I lay down I would start coughing and vomiting that black crap til early hours of the morning. I wasn't getting much sleep and I felt like sh** and it was just constant and my chest and throat were rough and sore from all the violent coughing and vomiting. Then one night I had this dream where an angel with black hair, dark eyes, and black clothes came up to me and said on my face (I could actually FEEL this in the dream) words in a language I don't understand with the sound of multiple voices all at once saing the same thing. I could hear it ringing in my ears even as I woke up which was at about 2am. For the first time in weeks I actually slept for the rest of that night. Within 3 days it had completely cleared up.

The thing is...my experience at communion that day, seeing that woman on the ground passed out from this 'healing', was not an easy thing for me to see. If healing is what it is in a spiritual sense, I figure you shoul'd be feeling really good. I always used to feel good after communion, no matter what. But, seeing that woman on the floor gave me these feelings of doubt. It kind of confirmed skepticism, and doubt.

One lady a row ahead of me, I remember, had this hearing problem...and the priest asked everyone in the room if anyone did. She stood up. He asked her to come over and see him about it, and asked her if she coul'd hear without the hearing aid. She did say 'yes', but after she sat down, she put it back in - I noticed. So, that was another hard thing for me....

After I left the ceremony, early, I felt very drained pretty much. My mother asked me if I felt any symptoms after or before the ceremony, and I said I didn't. But, all my symptoms occur at home where I live. If I go out of town about 70 miles away it doesn't happen for some reason. ( I have noticed it in Boston a few times when I went there to work, but not in a bad way). But, it seems I'm well known in the afterlife, so people who are strangers far out from home are usaually welcoming and very nice as strangers.

Originally my aim was to have no contact with the afterlife as it is though, *no knockin' on the "door"* permanently. But I seriously saw no result from the evangelism. Let alone going to church. So to the day, I'm still skeptical, but still spiritual. I keep a bit of faith inside just in case. Call it a spiritual insurance policy.

*& yeah sbradj, the priest did refer to himself as a 'vehicle'. But the question is how much do you know about that vehicle, and how much do you use it in matters of healing oneself?*

PFlack,

I went through the Catholic Charismatic movement almost 20 years ago, and it was an experience that changed me forever. However, this form of worship is not for everyone—God calls us in many different ways, and your path may lead elsewhere.

I would be hesitant to call “Resting in the Spirit” (what Catholics prefer to call it) total crap—I know many people who have been blessed with the experience, myself included. I can only say that my experience was sincere (not faked). I guess if I had to describe it, it was a serene and joyful experience. In that moment, I felt myself surrender all my soul to God (sort of like deep meditation) and my body relaxed to such a degree that it collapsed (quite gently; I had someone ready to catch me). I had no thoughts, just peace and contentment. This only happened to me once. You must be receptive to it; God will not force anyone if they are uncomfortable with the experience. However, it is not an earthshaking experience that it may appear to be—it is simply a little “extra” God gives us; sort of like spiritual candy.

However, I do believe that people abuse the experience and faking is probably quite prevalent—but who can determine the validity of a person’s religious experience except the one who is having the experience?

Then there is the Gift of Tongues, which always causes quite a stir. There appears to be two types of gifts in association with tongues—one is for prophecy (and it must always be accompanied with the interpretation) and then as a prayer language. I have received the Gift of Tongues to be used as my prayer language. It is very distinct and comes quite easily to me when I am in a prayerful mood. Again, it is really no big deal. It is a Christian version of a mantra—it helps to expedite meditation.

I have received two healings in my lifetime as a direct result of the Spirit. The first healing is quite personal, and I prefer not to share it at this time, but it was quite dramatic and unexpected. The second healing was given to me after I received the Anointment of the Sick. I had been suffering for two weeks with extreme upper-back pain, and my doctor had been unable to determine the cause. Instead, he kept shooting me up with cortisone and giving me pain pills, neither of which did any good. I was in a great deal of pain, having trouble working, and very desperate. After I approached my priest and asked for the anointing, the words came to me (in my head), “Tell the doctor to look for gall stones.” I had very little knowledge about gall bladder disease, so this hadn’t even been on my mind at the time. After an ultrasound, they found 21 gall stones and removed my gall bladder. The pain stopped immediately after surgery. This may not seem like one of those instant healings you hear about, but it was just as effective, and I am just as grateful. God uses our doctors to perform his miracles, too.

I have to agree that faith does play a major role in the effectiveness of a healing; although I have seen healings take place for some who didn’t believe, because they were being prayed for by believers. Not all who ask for healing will receive it, and I’m not exactly sure why. It may be because God wishes to use our illness as a learning experience.

I realize that the media has portrayed many evangelical Christians in a negative light—rolling on the floor, handling snakes, speaking gibberish, drinking poison—all these things can appear comical or insane to most people. I freely admit that when I see people convulsing on the ground or acting in these obviously ridiculous ways, it makes my stomach turn. Those fanatical healers we see on TV—with their dark tans, perfect teeth, bouffant hairdos—scare the crap out of me. Many (not all) are more concerned with money than God, and I know that someday they will pay the price for their deception of the faithful.

However, there is another side to this that has been overshadowed by the more flamboyant portrayal we see on TV and read in paper/internet. There are those of us who have a deep commitment to developing their spiritual life, a firm belief that God’s Spirit is the same as it was during Jesus’ time, and a desire to use the gifts of the Spirit to increase our knowledge and love of God and to minister to God’s people.

From the book of Corinthians 1:14. #9 So likewise ye, execpt ye utter by tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? For ye shall speak into the air.

#10 ~ There are, it may be , so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them *is* without signification.

PFlack:

I'm not sure of your meaning...perhaps you are questioning the value of the gift of tongues?

You quote a scripture (yikes, from the St. James version, so hard to understand with all those "ye's" and "thee's".) Paul also said, "He who speaks in tongues edifies himself...I would like every one of you to speak in tongues" (1 Corinthians 14:4,5).

Tongues is arguably the least of the gifts. Its importance is increased when it is used along with the Gift of Prophecy. For the prophecy to be from the Spirit, however, a translation must be supplied. Why would God choose to utter prophecies in another language which has to be translated? I think for the effect...a little drama helps make the prophecy more meaningful. Paul says that speaking in tongues edifies (or builds) us up. Some believe it is the language of God. It is simply a spiritual tool to help us in our communication with God. Here's a link that explains it a bit more clearly. (Although I'm not condoning the website; I haven't explored it fully, but this bit of information seemed helpful.)

Speaking in Tongues

My personal prayer language is just for me--it is a meditation tool, and I find that when I can't think of words to say to God, or if I'm just too tired, I can always reach a prayerful state using my prayer language--sort of like the mantra, OM, used in eastern religions.

You Catholics never cease to amaze me. Don't get me wrong, I love y'all with all your saints, and religious doo-dads, tongues, confessions, sacraments, beads, and stuff... but it's just so foreign to my own christian practice that it baffles me.

I don't think what HowdyDoo is talking about is Roman Catholicism. Appears to me to be some charismatic or pentecostal group.
If it is RC, this is the first time I've seen King James I of England referred to as a saint.

I didn't refer to King James as a Saint.

There are a ton of different types of Catholism, but they're still all Catholic. Some of the Catholic groups are more charismatic than others.

And frankly I like Catholics as people... my sister is a Catholic, my father in law is one of my favorite people in the whole world and he used to be a priest. Their practice is just so complex that it baffles me. There's nothing wrong with that.

HowdyDoo did, and I just don't think any RC would go around calling a protestant king a saint.

There are a ton of different people who like to call themselves Catholic that aren't.

Oops...I didn't mean to refer to the SAINT James Version of the Bible--sorry, just a typo. It is the KING James Version.

And I am not describing Roman Catholicism in general. (Many would find these things just as unusual as you do.) I am talking about the Charismatic Catholic movement, which is a small sect in the Roman Catholic Church. It is accepted by the Pope, but is not mainstream Catholicism.

always good to keep that insurance policy handy specialy kept in a place where it can always be reached..

this is where a pray life comes in...if you want to find god or seek him pray is the way to do it..also if you maintain a good healthy praylife and read the word you will KNOW Them by their fruits..no matter how one labels themselves...if you are in tune with god he will not let you be misslead..but it takes devoution not just sunday wednesday...but everyday..i dont know much about the "inside" works of the catholics. no matter what "name" "Title" Labe" one calls themselves if they are not sincere with god and you yourself are ....it will be revealed to you..but it takes lots of pray. gotta keep in tune with god..if that makes sense..


saw where speaking in tongues came up... . this is something that is essential to salvation so to speak...like howdydoo posted there is two forms..when one gets the baptism of the holy ghost..it is the editafaction of the baptism..also it is when god speaks to the church again like howdydoo posted there must always be an interpertaion when this happens the bible states after 3 times and no interpertaion..to stop...when one is in pray..or worship it may also take place it is the spirit of god dwelling in you ...ive heard that some churches teach ppl how to do this...this is dangerous...if it is not from god it is not real and that puts ppl into danger...only god can give you his spirit..no matter how much ppl say it can be taught...thats false doctrine..and those teaching this will answer to god for misleading ppl...but again if ppl are true and are seeking god they will read the bible and follow it cant take bits and pieces to suit ones self it is what it is it should be followed line upon line precept upon precept...iv read different forms of the bible only one that actually kept it as gods word was the kjv.. this is just my opinoin ..but others seemed to alter the message.

Here is an interesting article I found on Speaking in Tongues. I would cut and paste, but I am afraid of breaking copyright laws.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2935819&page=1