http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7468.htm

this video will tell

This video is just bizarre. Correct me if I am wrong, but is this the insurgents that are putting suicide bombers in public places? I would be almost inclined to believe them if it wern't for that.

I do have to say though. Witty comeback at the end when he says "Geoge Bush, you have asked us to bring it on, and we have like never expected." Which I think is true. I dont think that any war general or the president believed the war would have lasted this long.

nope muslims never suicide its the path to hell only shia does they are abit alike christians

Well, I know that. I wasn't sure if this was the insurgency that created suicide bombings that made this statement, or an actual army.

in iraq suicide bombing shia are fighting vs sunni the sunni fights cose they must defend them self the shia fights cose its the path to heaven if they kill any other belives its their belive ouch

Really? How many Christian suicide bombers can you name? Your post is ludicrous and offensive.

timothy mac veigh a christian and look a japanees christian, Kotaro Hagihara,Ichizo Hayashi,kamikaze pilot Ichizo Hayashi he wrote a final letter to his mother stating that “for to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain” , americans name , Lt. Richard Somers,Reuben James.
answered your question and there are alot more

First of all, Timothy McVeigh was not a SUICIDE bomber. He was alive and well after the bombing in Oklahoma City. Kotaro Hagihara and Ichizo Hayashi were kamikaze's and it's fairly well accepted that kamikazes were coerced into volunteering. Lt. Richard Somers did not commit a suicide mission. He was sailing a ship into enemy territory that was intended to be a floating bomb. He and the crew were to jump ship before it reached it's target. The ship blew up before it reached it's destination and all were killed. Rueben James jumped in front of his Captain to protect him from being killed by a sword. He lived through the incident and died years later.

Agreed.

dont forget the america state always get infultrate in the document to change history to defend their chrisianity and their self ^^

I'm really not sure what you're talking about. Would you like to clarify what you said? Are you saying that Timothy McVeigh was killed in the bombing and America has rewritten history?

Being raised as a Christian, I was never taught that violence solves anything. I was taught that love and tolerance were the ideals to follow.
I was taught not to kill. Unlike the photo's we see below of the peaceful Muslims and their childhood traditions.

















Yeah, Western society and Christianity are sick.....PLEASE

By the way badpenny, excellent points

Nevertheless, I'll pray for these misguided people and their abused children.

Thanks for the photos, Thozzman. They're graphic reminders of the mindet of the peaceful Muslims. There is no comparison between this and the people listed by thammyb.

suicide bombers exist for 2 reasons - they believe in thier cause enough to die for it. and it is one of the few weapons they can use compared to our armies which bomb from the air or tanks.

fact is there are more terrorists since Bushco illegally invaded Iraq than existed pre 911.
TERRORISTS AND IT MADE TERRORISM WORSE - NOT BETTER. NO LINK TO AL QEADA PRE BUSH.

Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat
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By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radi*spam filter*m and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.


The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radi*spam filter*m than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,’’ it asserts that Islamic radi*spam filter*m, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, “Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement,” cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.

The report “says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse,” said one American intelligence official.

also

(the majority of Iraqi's want the US out . Last night I'd see a 'poll' that said 49% want the US to stay , but strange it comes on the heels of a surge. Sounds like bush propaganda to rouse support for his failure. yet this poll below was taken after the elections so it has no political influence.)

New Survey: Iraqis Want a Speedy U.S. Exit -- and Back Attacks on Our Forces

By E&P Staff

Published: November 21, 2006 10:20 AM ET

NEW YORK Past surveys have hinted at this result, but a new poll in Iraq makes it more stark than ever: the Iraqi people want the U.S. to exit their country. And most Iraqis now approve of attacks on U.S. forces, even though 94% express disapproval of al-Qaeda.

At one time, this was primarily a call by the Sunni minority, but now the Shiites have also come around to this view. The survey by much-respected World Public Opinion (WPO), taken in September, found that 74% of Shiites and 91% of Sunnis in Iraq want us to leave within a year. The number of Shiites making this call in Baghdad, where the U.S. may send more troops to bring order, is even higher (80%). In contrast, earlier this year, 57% of this same group backed an "open-ended" U.S. stay.

By a wide margin, both groups believe U.S. forces are provoking more violence than they're preventing -- and that day-to-day security would improve if we left.

Support for attacks on U.S. forces now commands majority support among both Shiites and Sunnis. The report states: "Support for attacks on U.S.-led forces has grown to a majority position—now six in ten. Support appears to be related to widespread perception, held by all ethnic groups, that the U.S. government plans to have permanent military bases in Iraq and would not withdraw its forces from Iraq even if the Iraqi government asked it to. If the U.S. were to commit to withdraw, more than half of those who approve of attacks on US troops say that their support for attacks would diminish."

The backing for attacks on our forces has jumped to 61% from 47% in January.

Among Iraqis overall, 77% percent prefer that a strong government get rid of militias, including 100% of the Sunnis polled and 82% of Kurds.
But "the Shia population in Baghdad is more skeptical than elsewhere about the wisdom of disarming the militias," a report by WPO states. In Baghdad, Shias say they want militias to continue to protect their security (59%).

The national survey reached 1,150 Iraqis. It was conducted by the Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) at the University of Maryland.

Nearly every opinion poll in the U.S. has shown that roughly 6 in 10 Americans also back a withdrawal within a year.

american children and guns - forget about Colombine? here in Michigan where the 11 yr old shot and killed a pontiac man?

It shouldn't take a school shooting or an inner-city neighborhood shooting to make us realize that American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States.[1]









http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...D1%26safe%3Doff
what american guns do to foreign children







In 2003, 2,849 U.S. children and teenagers died of firearm injuries: this includes 1,844 homicides (including 22 deaths due to legal intervention), 810 suicides, and 195 unintentional and undetermined shootings. Every day in the United States, an average of eight children and youth aged 19 and younger ie from gunshot wounds.
CDC/National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports 1999-2003
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars

Nationwide, 6.1% of high school students reported carrying a gun at least once during the last 30 days. Male students (10.2%) were significantly more likely than females (1.6%) to have carried a gun.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance – United States, 2003.
Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 21, 2004, Vol 53, No SS-2 (p. 5).

Between 1985 and 1994, the risk of dying from a firearm injury more than doubled for teenagers 15 to 19 years of age.
National Summary of Injury Mortality Data, 1987-1994. Atlanta, GA: Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, November, 1996.

From 1985 through the early 1990s, the use of handguns in homicides committed by youth under the aged of 18 increased nearly four times and handgun homicides by those aged 18-24 doubled.
Blumstein, Alfred. Youth, Guns and Violent Crime. Children, Youth and Gun Violence.
The Future of Children Vol. 12 No. 2, The David and Lucile Packard Foundation 2002.
(Based on F.B.I. Supplementary Homicide Reports)

I'm sure if America was illegally invaded we'd see more kids carrying guns than do now.

http://www.nra-kkk.org/

I believe Thozzman was referring to indoctrinating children to be violent in the name of religion. The Columbine killers didn't have religion on their minds when they committed their crimes nor were they encouraged to kill their classmates by their parents. Children and people of all ages are being killed in the United States. I blame this on the breakdown of the family and society in general not religious fanatacism. Also, I don't see children of the US being trained to hate or kill people of other countries who disagree with their religious idealogy.

Children in america may not be taught to kill others in a different country in the name of religious idealogy, but children are certinaly indoctorined with hate of those in other religions outside christianity. Of course I know this isn't always the case, or even a majourity of christian parents teaching their children such things; but a prime example is my extremist evangelical cousin who is teaching his younger brother why every religion is against christianity; and that people of different faiths were put here to test the christians of their faith, and should avoid non-christians as much as possible. Among other atrocious teachings. If there is one who is willing to teach children these things, there is bound to be another.

I think it is a travesty that parents of those chlidren in the post Thozzman made feel that they need to teach their children to hold a gun and prepare for war. But I think one must keep in mind that this does not reflect what Islam is. You can not base what Islam means by what muslims do. The same with every religion. Not to mention the middle east probably only makes up 20% of the followers of Islam.

That is an extreme example of religious fanatacism and not the norm in our society. I'm sure there are many more that are just like your cousin but in the big picture they are a very small percentage. I don't see any organized Christian groups training their children to kill Muslims. If you know of any I'd be interested to know more about it.

I know this

nope childhood muslim this isn t muslim these foto is the paganism of the shia secte and not the fundemalist islam

muslim never atack anyone only drive them out of the ground and muslims never atack or go invade another country . its in the quran chapiter 2 vers 189 till 192

children in islam never taught violence allah hate voilence going to war is to protect family but never atack the other to hurt their family so the picter that you show isnt islam its shia , shia goes against islam but wear same cloths and they belive in the cousin of muhammed and the 12 imam afther the death of muhammed the islamic belive in muhammed and only him not to hurt anyone

First of all, the kids on the pic is Palistine kids, israel flag behind in one of the pics,
80% of kid seen parents, relative get killed infront of there owen eye daily which build up hate and revenge that leads them either to carry a gun or fight back, weapons? I see them throw stones most of the time... If there voices never was heared and its been the same thing for 40 years.. Palistine Vs Isreal , what hope do they have to live for? specially when they have nothing to lose?

and these kids are jews or kafar

Oh my god, it's like debating the evils of Nazism with Himmler and Hitler. What kills me is that so many people believe the blatant lies and propoganda, not just the subversive spin, but the outright lies. Whatever, you people are bonkers.

I AGREE YOU !!!

now your just making up stuff to justify your self

There is nothing wrong with children being taught the responsible use of firearms. I learned gun safety and range discipline from my father, with a .22 single-shot rifle, at the age of about 5.
I didn't become a raging, hateful, violent maniac --- as so many anti-gun bigots like to claim it will do to a child.
On the contrary, I learned a healthy respect for firearms and their safe use.
I'm not saying that every child MUST learn firearms safety and basic marksmanship, but it should be an option in schools. You could start with BB or pellet rifles in 4th grade. By high school graduation, students would have learned how to safely handle a rifle, shotgun and pistol. Knowing enough to just check whether a gun is loaded would save a lot of lives.
Hollywood and TV are the worst examples of gun handling that children are exposed to: guns are pointed at people, detectives shoot at the bad guy with a bunch of innocent bystanders in the background, hip-hopsters hold their semi-auto pistols sideways and even upside down while firing, people are theatened with a gun in the face and so on --- all the things that responsible gun owners were taught NOT to do.
So why not educate children how to properly and safely hold and use a firearm, if they wish?
Every time I mention this in conversation, anti-gunners invariably get angry and say no child of theirs will ever learn about guns!
Okay, it's their parental choice, but I believe they're wrong.
Answer me this: Why is it that every societal ill such as AIDS, drugs, drunk driving and child abuse can be fought with education, but when it comes to gun abuse people believe it's far better to leave their child ignorant? Somehow, it's far better that their child learn about gun handling and safety from a movie, or a gang-banger wannabe on the street?
Education would go far in preventing firearms deaths, injuries and close calls.

As for the invasion of Iraq: How is it that the world applauded when Saddam was toppled from power, then suddenly decided it was a terrible thing? In the middle of the war, America pledged $20 million immediately to help the Tsunami victims. Then America was chided as being a skinflint --- despite bearing the brunt of the war (and the UN bill for decades too, by the way). So, America pledged $100 million. To date, America has provided $50 million to the Tsunami cause.
China pledged $330 million and has paid less than 10 percent. Other countries have responded equally poorly, but I don't hear of them being taken to task.
And they don't have a war to pay. a war that daily provides intelligence that saves lives worldwide.
Don't think so?
Intelligence generated in Iraq thwarted a terrorist attack on a major office building in Los Angeles, about two years ago.
God knows what other acts of terror have been thwarted.

So much of the world wants Amrica to leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Okay. Fine. Let's leave it today, and let things become a bloody civil war for decades. Does anyone remember Cambodia? Does anyone recall what began in Africa decades ago, when major world powers pulled out?
Moreover, those who are screaming for the U.S. to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan are, at the same time, calling for the U.S. to do something about Africa. Africa! The singlemost corrupt continent in the world!
Does anyone remember Somalia in `93, when American and other UN troops tried to get food and medicine to Somalis? The warlords immediatley grabbed it by force. So then, the threat of force had to be employed to protect the food and medicine shipments to Somalis. The result? Al Quaeda whipped up the populace, turned it into an anti-American thing, and a bunch of American and Pakistani troops were butchered. Hey Somalia! We wanted to feed you, and treat your diseases! And you spit on us!
So, to the devil with Africa! Let Germany, Japan, Italy, Bosnia, Belgium, Holland and Peru feed and treat Africa. Let them bear the brunt for once.
Frankly, I almost wish we'd pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq. And stop foreign aid to Israel, Luxembourg, India, Thailand, Cambodia and the like.

Sure, America has its faults but it's still better than many other countries out there. I can still stand on a street corner and voice my opinion, own a firearm in most states, and even carry a pistol under my jacket in most states as long as I have a permit. I have freedoms the rest of the world has never known, will never know, and some even envy.
I'm sure I'll generate plenty of angry replies. Well, you have a right to disagree. Just remember, in many countries of this world you wouldn't have this right. You could be jailed, or worse.

You have GOT to be kidding!
Don't you know your own history, of the founding of Islam?
Let me refresh your memory ...

"Mohammed proclaimed himself God's messenger and called on the Meccans to accept Allah as the only god. At first, he made few converts ... As Mohammed's influence increased, the Meccans began to fear he might gain political control of the city. They persecuted his followers and plotted to murder him. In 622, he fled to Yathrib, which he subsequently renamed Medina. In Medina, Mohammed formed an islamic community based upon religious faith rather than tribal or family loyalties.
He rapidly extended his territory by conquest and conversion. In 630, after a long period of warfare with Mecca, and winning the battles of Badr and Uhud, he captured Mecca ... making it both the political and religious capital of Islam.

Source: The New American Desk Encyclopedia, copyright 1997

And how did Islam spread to the Philippines and the South Pacific? It was done by force.
Oh sure, Christianity was forced upon people too, and I'm not an admirer of the followers of that religion either.
But to paint the followers of Mohammed as peaceful defenders of their own historical lands is absurd.
Muslims are just as guilty of expansionism as the Christians they oppose.

The American crime was not going after muslim extremists BEFORE they attacked and killed (apparently with liberal blessings), the WTC.

I can't help but feel, when I read posts like the ones that started this topic, that it seems that almost every middle eastern person that lives in the United States, works here, makes money here and or goes to school here to get a good education is always the first to stand up and critcize America.

I can't help it, I find it so offensive. I just had to say that, I truly mean no disrespect. Afterall this is a free country and you can post your opinions with out having to be afraid of consequences. I know there is so much wrong right now with our politics but I am still Proud to be an American...And I believe we should try to remember all the good we have done for so many...

OH NO another brain washed socialist.

The Shiite are supposed to be the direct line from Mohammed that believes that Mohammed's decendents should be the religous leaders, the sunis do not believe this. That's the only difference in the two.

WOW I read this whole thing, I really don't any idea of what this topic has turned into. I think this topic belongs in the Conspiracies & Secret Societies board.

ah... nothing like the smell of propaganda in the morning!!

this thread has just degenerated into mud slinging over the ideas of two sets of very flawed countries and religions.

i'm just counting the posts until it gets closed...

the Oklahoma City Bomber wasent suicide he was a terrorist

ignorance shows now boundary's

I'm not sure if even THAT term is correct...terrorists usually (before 911) have an "ultimatum" or agenda. McVeigh was just a plain old wacko...

Yep, he was a terrorist.

I guess he does qualify under those guidlines...but he was still wacko...

The American crime is, not supporting the commander and chief of your country and trying to throw a war that's going to have grave consequences for us all after the media and the ignorant lose it for us.
The American crime is believing total fabrications that the US was behind 9/11, and not the poor misunderstood Islamic terrorists.
The American crime is the willingness to turn your backs on the Iraqi people who regardless of what you've heard through the liberal media, want us to remain in Iraq because they realize the day we pull out, they're dead.

The American crime is being cowardly and stupid, with a gullible willingness to believe any propaganda uttered by Islamic child killers.
I suppose most of you would have sent a congratulatory note to the 9/11 hijackers if you'd been able. The American crime is America's willingness to self destruct through the efforts of far-left liberal psychos who embrace darkness and agony for all, unless they get their way.

I wish I knew what news channel you are watching because I don't see any liberal news media whatsoever . The only type of liberal news I can think of is Keith Olbermann. And that's just a segment of an entire company.

I read all the news I can find on the internet, and observe the negative effects on my country by liberal's in America everyday.
I've had 52 years to notice the negative changes. Now the changes are coming in leaps and bounds. And not for the better.

So americas always right? OH BOY that takes alot off my mind

Oh yes and if islamic terrorists killed your family in a suicide bombing would you want to fight them at every turn?

LOL you think its bad here, you should see our media overseas. Italian state TV, Rai, made this "documentary" showing dead and claimed the U.S. used banned chemical weapons, however the bodies did not have the localized burns expected from WP particles at all. also that WP isn't a chemical weapon but a incendiary that is legal.

Here is how CNN covered it
"I was confronted with these disparate realities when I was interviewed both by CNN and CNN International a few days after the story broke. Domestic CNN, airing here in the United States, was skeptical of the scandal. CNN International, airing before an audience that had already accepted the Italian documentary as fact, took a far less skeptical approach. The two CNNs — one for the U.S. and one for everyone else — embodied the separate realities now occupied by the United States and the rest of the world. We see ourselves as well intentioned. Much of the rest of the world does not."
The Dogs of War

Well put, Thozzman. It took me a while to realize that there are Americans who actually side with the 9/11 hijackers and suicide bombers. I finally stoped trying to understand it. I just put those far-left irresponsible wackos in the same category as the terrorists -- they're out to destroy America.

WELL SAID, I CONCUR !!!

amen man amen

i say we should stop all foreign aid and see how long it takes them to start asking for it again

Propaganda?
It's historical fact that Mohammed raised an army to forcibly convert the opposition. I don't recall Jesus, Confuscius or Bhudda doing this.
Believe what you wish, but any theologican or scholar will tell you that the above is true.
I don't follow any particular religion. I believe in a higher being(s) and leave it at that.

These people are just willfully ignoring the good that the forces in Iraq have done for them, without them they would still be living under Saddam Hussein's regime. Sure they'd have more oil, but their country would still be run by a genocidal dictator who was more concerned with building lavish monuments for himself than governing the country.







So basically they want the western world to give up their right to war so they can strike us in a vulnerable state?

Once again thee countries are too weak and insignificant to appose the western world in any conventional military sense so they are willing to resort to cheap shots to try and achieve their petty revenge.

The reality is Iraq is a shell of a country and has many political and ethnic tensions, I'm amazed that the US has been able to make the progress it has.