Pointing the finger at God

Some religious like to point the finger at God, and have no clue that in fact they are slandering Gods name and its blasphemy. They use God as a shield to hide behind, when they want to say horrid things that sound hateful.

Some have indeed stated that, God is responsible for the tornado that took the lives of many women and children, but they showed no remorse, instead they said it was the work of God to rid of the gays. That itself is horrible and so bang out of order, don’t they realize that a member of their family could have been killed by the same natural disaster? If that happened, would they be so quick to say – God did this, to rid of the gays? Somehow I doubt it, in fact these same religious people, will claim that God is all loving, he is perfect, and killing is a sin, but will turn around and say their perfect God has sent this natural disaster to send a message or if you like, to prove a point!!

The same with the tragic 9/11, a lot died that day, even those that tried to help ie fire-fighters ect, some of them died too, and yet these same finger pointers that class themselves religious, have in fact said God is responsible for the 9/11 attacks to send a message. This is so wrong on so many levels is shocking, and very much two faced with their God
I see what they do is slander in God’s name, and pure blasphemy IMO

Some atheists/non Christians - - Will say they don’t believe in religion and the bible, yet turn around and say things like – God is a killer, according to the bible, he has caused many deaths, he is evil. NO people...he is not evil, he did not write the bible, and if you don’t believe in the bible or God, then why would you wanna blame God for the harsh killings in the bible, that man wrote?

It doesn’t make sense to point the finger and say – God did this, not if you claim you don’t believe there is a God in the first place!! Because if he doesn’t exist to you, then the stories written in the bible are false, therefore there is no point in blaming God is there?

There is no need to point the finger at God, man is to blame, not God

Recap – Those of you that don’t believe in God or religion, then you shouldn’t slander his name and accuse him of the deaths in the bible, after all you don’t believe in the bible, therefore its silly to act as though you do believe, but only believe the bad parts, just so you can point the finger
The same for those that do believe in God, why point the finger at him for tragic deaths? The you sit and say, ah but he is all loving...you show no remorse for the deaths, you just make up rotten statements blaming God, using God as a shield to excuse your hateful behaviour, then claim and chant, ITS MY RELIGIOUS BELIEFS <--that’s supposed to make it OK then huh?

A lot of agnostics (such as me) will "blame" God for things in a hypothetical sense. Many of the arguments you're hearing from atheists or agnostics are said meaning "If God is real, then...." and then proceed to "blame" as you have said, or present contradictions. What they're really doing is pointing out the contradictions of deaths God (assuming his existence) "caused" in their eyes, and how that directly interferes with an "all-loving" being.

There are few atheists or agnostics silly enough to refuse belief in a God, yet at the same time blame them for things. Remember to take any statements they make about God in a hypothetical sense. I.E. They are citing those statements as their reason for nonbelief.

But using it as a hypothetical sense is silly to me, it doesnt add up.

When a person says - Well assuming there is a god, then he is to blame for this and that" What's the point in pointing the finger at a mere assumption?? you either do belive it, or you dont

If however you are in two minds and you believe there is no way of proving he exists or does not exist, and you still make this kind of statement..that to me shows you havent thought about it much, and you are leaning towards believing that it must be true, so lets point the finger regardless

IMO i believe that when an atheist/non believer..points the finger it makes them look as though they do believe in it, hence the reasons to point the finger, is clearly letting others think, they must only do this cuz deep down they think it might be real, and some will add, they are only doing this to have a pop at the christians

And to add, those that are religious (some) that point the finger, only use God for their OWN ignorance and hate

Why do such a thing to begin with in whatever sense of the matter?

I blame people who would rather use their god as an excuse to kill. "God wants us to kill this group of people..."

Two way street at times.

I do know from personal experience, with the church that I was forced to attend while growing up in a strict religious home, that when something good happened, you were on the right path and it was god giving you a blessing, and when something bad happened, it was seen as a good thing, because that meant you were on the right path, and god was testing you like he tested Job. Either way you look at it, no matter what happens in life, you're aparently saved, and on the right path. (And also quite arrogant to compare yourselves to the mythical being believed to be Job. It's almost like comparing yourself to Christ)

I'm half skeptic, half believer and it doesn't matter to me if God exists or not. I don't believe in Evil but according to the Old Testament God did directly murder a countless number of people. One could say that all the stories of The Bible are fabrications but if we can't base our interpretations of God by the words of the Bible what do we base it on? If the book itself is a book of fiction then what does that say about its characters?

You speak against pointing the finger...does that mean no one should be responsible for their actions?

Maybe God did sent a tornado to kill homosexuals...it wouldn't be entirely out of character. How do you know that he didn't?

So.. are we not allowed to judge the character of mythical creatures?
If a Christian says: "My God is loving", I will bring up a bunch of verses where god kills , hates, tortures, torments, in the Bible. This is to show them that their God does not seem so Godly. I'm not "blaming God", I'm pointing out that who they believe to be God does not fit the role very well, and I can still do that while not believing in a God.

I believe people have, do and will always blame someone/something else for their own horrid actions......It's because they don't want to accept responsibility for their own doing..... So, they'll blame God or the Bible or the Koran or Allah or the Devil or even the garden knome (made me do it)......

I suppose they find a way to justify their actions by applying what they've done to it being, 'God's way' or 'The Devil's work'.....

It's just that same when people have to give God credit for everything good that happens.

Yes, and if you ask me.. that includes answered prayers.

People blame God because other's will either allow themselves to believe that God has the power to affect our lives or the surroundings around us or some will try and persuade others that God can do those things so others who do not believe in God will try to point out the supposed bad things God has done as a counter argument.


If people no not wish for God to blamed for stuff then they should not try and credit God for stuff or try to convince others that God can affect our lives and surroundings.


And HIYA BM I have not spoken to you in a while....well typed to you in a while

Thats what I was getting at, if you re-read the 1st opening post

People who one min claim their God is so great, so perfect he does all thats good...then they turn and say BTW ya know that natural disaster that killed all those poor people, well HA God did it, he sent a message to them about their gays................................I call this crap

If you believe he is all loving..then dont sit on your arse pointing the finger using him as an excuse to throw your hate...then ya call yourself religious..and want others to convert to be like YOU....hell I'd say they are much better off converting to the Satanic faith..at least the satanic faith is not as harsh and evil

I myself follow God...but never ONCE have I said anything like he was to blame for killing people....how can I say what he is and isnt responcible for???? when I dont know myself??
As for prayers being answered...I only believe mine are thats really my business...but i dont or cant answer as to why and how there are other troubles


Annnnnnnnnd ONE more thing...........a lot of you are too quick to say YOUR GOD this YOUR GOD that LMAO....whats wrong in saying this ----> you believe your God did this, you believe your god did that....yea people cuz after all its ONLY a BELIEF

Exactly MUM

Although I never heard these people chant the 9/11 is the work of Satan...NOPE to show their OWN hate they decided to use God instead...hence the term - Fear God now or feel his wrath..............thats in their stupid lil heads think that all of a sudden gays and all sorts of what they call sinners, will come a runnin, to be saved sigh..yet cant see the hate they throw out to others..

Many murders throughout history have been committed in the name of God, 911 included.

I think the argument is not God did it but rather a question of why God who is all powerful according to believers doesn't intervene and stop things being done "In his name"

Biblically when you look you see there is justification for these rouge believers who suggest that this is what "God wants" because God himself had done, and condoned such things according to Biblical testament.

If it was deemed ok to murder all the innocent first born children in Egypt so that Moses could set his people free, then what's the big whup about killing men and women in the name of God.

Saying "God did it" and "God allows for it" are two different things.

But I do agree that its weird that people who don't believe in God say things like "Look what your God did"

Its the fact that God supposedly did these things that makes me believe that he doesn't really exist.

You dont see how silly that looks or sounds?? no?? judging someone you see only as a myth is senseable to you??yes?? go ahead then, know yourself out, next you will be telling me that Luke Skywalker sank the titanic...damn that skywalker

Hey why stop at just ONE mythical character ?? why not blame Robin Hood for the starving in Africa...claim he stole all their food lol
Didnt Harry Potter create the force behind the tsunami, that took many lives?? well didnt he??

And Superman was responcible for the 9/11...yeaa here's the thing, he flew into the buildings, by mistake, he had a hangover

Sound silly?? no more silly than blaming what you class as a mythical character my friend LMAO

I agree with truethat.
And most hardcore believers, believe their God giveth and taketh away.... they don't question his will, yet they'll tell you what his will is.... interesting I know. And of course, there is our freewill, but that interestingly goes out the window as soon as God's will trumps it..... confusing stuff.

Yes.....yes he did.

ohh then in that case he shall pay the price

I don't believe in god, so there's nothing to lay blame on. What I blame for intolerance, segregation, separatist ideologies and sectarian arrogance are the people that choose to believe god requires all those antisocial behaviors , in order to be considered righteous and in the grace of the god they believe is hate and bigotry.

That god, is what is created in the image of man and that god image is what has been at the forefront of all the "holy wars" ever waged in it's name. That god is what is fleshed out, in the faith held by it's believers. That think slaughtering life is sacred. That oppressing love, is holy because they believe god is perfect and as such accept man made scripture that claims god can also create an abomination in the flesh. As I said in another thread, there is no objective evidence that god exists. However there are piles of evidence that prove man made god in it's image and with it's faults, and while there are many people that believe in that, there is no proof that would ever be worthy of being called by a name that denotes a power so immense and extra-ordinary that it can create galaxies, and yet hates gays! That's man, making of themselves the demigod for all the world to emulate. And many do. It's what causes people to murder in the name of faith, and glow after, with the blood still drying on their hands. Because they imagine they've done a good thing in doing as they're told!

Pope Innocent VIII, after the Malleus Maleficarum was delivered to him, called the two monks that helped write it, his most favored sons. God's ordinance of terrorism, in blood. How many generations of good people perished in the name of man made terrorism, called holy!?

I don't blame something that does not exist, for the vicious offense perpetrated by human minds and hands, in the spirit of a lie called benevolence. I blame the flesh that is so savage it bestows the honor of "god" , to something it can claim makes it kill and oppress, in its name. It's the excuse for savage minds, to call something god and then declare that is what makes them so savage. When really it's people that represent their faith and when they are evil they are examples of an evil god. When they are bigots they example a bigoted deity. And when they die, given they think they'll be judged for their actions by something that ordained such savagery, they imagine they'll have done well and shall be in it's grace, for eternity. I shall never believe in anything, that inhumane.

That would appear to be correct to someone that disproves God in the first place. Of course they will only see the negative in it and consider it false and incorrect because of their views on the subject. You believe that because you WANT to believe that but there is a great distinction between a true christian and an extremist whether you accept it or not. You also state that there are piles of evidence that prove man made God. Im sure you will have those resources at hand to provide to the thread here. I dont know if anyones ever read this article but I wanted to post it. It was an interview of Antony Flew done by Gary Habermas. "Flew is a legendary British philosopher and atheist and has been an icon and champion for unbelievers for decades. His change of mind is significant news, not only about his personal journey, but also about the pursuasive power of the arguments modern theists have been using to challenge atheistic naturalism." <from www.illustramedia.com Antony now believes there is a God with EVIDENCE that has been given. I would recommend this read to anyone.

Here is the site im referring too that presents this specific interview.

http://www.illustramedia.com/IDArticles/flew-interview.pdf

I think it's unfortunate that you don't care to think a little about the very true fact that man made god. Every bible, every scripture, every holy text is made by man! It's faith that says that it was god that inspired, because if god inspired it asked man to write it down. It's an example of the condition of blind faith, that makes some to think recognizing all allusions to god are man made, is wrong. It's the faith that believes it was inspired by something men say made it so.

And I do know there is a difference between an extremist and a "True" christian. But you see, the "true" part of that identity is what makes for the elitist demeanor that can foster extremism. I've even met christians that criticize other christians. Why? Because the object of the criticism isn't representative of a "true" christian. So really calling ones self a true anything, is a discrimination in itself.

i personally dont believe in god, just my beliefs, or not beliefs. why would he let all the children die of sickness if this is a test of life? why does he let all those poor people die of hunger?


it makes me sick whats happening in the world and this "god" doesnt do anything, there cant be one

I think it's unfortunate that you don't care to think a little about the very true fact that man made god

And I think it's unfortunate that you don't care to think a little about the very true fact that God made man AND give him His words through revelation. You see the different perspectives here?.

These are both BELIEFS!....there is no proof that God doesnt exist or it would be posted on every sign and billboard you see.

This discussion isnt going anywhere and color me disinterested to continue it. My replies are being misdirected for some reason also

moved from incorrect thread

I wholeheartedly believe in God. I believe Jesus died on the cross so that I may know eternal life.
I follow the ten commandments, and pray, but don't attend any formal church, or belong to any particular denomination.
I judge people (yes it's an inevitable human trait, any opinion is a form of judgment), by their character and good deeds. I also judge them by the mean and nasty attitudes they display.

I treat everyone equally, atheists, gays, thieves, druggies and whatnot, and have people from each aforementioned group as friends.
I also believe evil forces work in EVERYONE, whether they proclaim themselves to be Christian, Atheist, Satanic, or whatever.
Being a Christian isn't easy street.

I believe that I should live my life and emulate the life of Jesus in my actions. I sometimes read the Bible, but not as much as I probably should for the simple fact that much of the Bible has been deleted and/or removed and replaced. I f the entire written works and books of the Bible were intact it would be at least twice as large as it is now. Not to mention the old (King James) English, which is very difficult to comprehend (at least for me).

In short, I do my best to follow the teachings of Christ. Sometimes I fall short or fail altogether. But I'll always keep trying.
I have respect for everyone of all faiths or non-faiths, but if verbally or physically attacked will defend myself, or at least try.

I'm not what mainstream Christians would call a "ideal" Christian. I prefer a personal relationship with Christ as opposed to using a middleman (organized denominational church).

I also believe that evil is at work on these forums in many threads, but I do not feel threatened by them to much.
I will never preach, or attempt to convert anyone as I believe that is a personal choice. To each his own.

Very awesome my friend!

Not to nitpick here but isn't that a bit hypocritical? You readily accept and believe that God makes positive changes in your life, but you criticize other people for saying God makes negative changes? For example, what if I made a thread saying.. "let's all thank God", that complained about people who attribute their luck and success to God.. that would be the same thign as this thread, only the other side of the spectrum. You're telling people it's not God's fault for the bad things in their life, yet you attribute good things in life to God.

Now I obviously don't believe in God, I just thought I should point that out.



Your argument sounds silly to me, because the difference is that none of those mythical characters where the all-powerful creators of the universe. I'm not blaming a mythical character for real-world events, I'm judging the mythical character based on the actions he supposedly did. It's like this:

"If Robin Hood existed, I think he would be a just man. He saw that the rich were greedy and he attempted to share the wealth with those in need". See? No real world tie-ins, it's hypothetical. If mythical characters are unable to have a personality, then what the heck is a supervillain or hero? I think that the Christian God is an unjust God, just like I think Lex Luthor is a scheming villain. If someone believed that Lex Luthor really existed and was a good person and all the superman stories were true, I would tell them how he tried to kill billions of people for profit in those stories.. it's all hypothetical.

I've tried pointing out that there is a difference between saying that the Biblical texts (or any other man made text) are absolutely a human invention and then using that as an argument that "GOD" doesn't exist.

The man made explanations of God are evidence that THOSE versions of God are man made.

The idea of God is unprovable.

Its a very very very fine line to say that I don't believe in "GOD"

I don't believe in Yaweh, Jehovah, Allah, The father son and holy spirit, The Buddist explanation of the "Godness of us all" and Zeus. These are all human invention that with a bit of investigation can be proven to have conflicting definitions of what their own claim is and thus flawed and not something I believe in.

And I don't believe in the concept of God.

The fine line is that the minute we begin to explain what this "GOD" is we pull it into the limitations of human definition.

Every "explanation of God" or theory of God is usually flawed because it is invented for human purposes.

I agree that to say God answered my prayers, but he isn't responsible for the bad stuff is illogical.

How do you know this? If you are going to attribute grand powers to this supposed being, why is it that these powers are supposed to work as you wish them to?

If there is a God that answers prayers how do we know he only answers "noble" prayers and what is the paradigm for what is noble?

One could argue in that vein that 911 made some huge wake up calls ring around the world and served a purpose on a grander scale than mankind can even comprehend.

Its is silly arrogance to think that one knows what God deems "good" and "bad" or right and wrong.

If there is this entity that can impact the world in such a manner who are we to presume we comprehend what his motives are?

This is not to say for me on a personal level that I have an agnostic approach to God. Thus far as God as been explained, I don't believe in God.

I don't think that there will be any sort of different argument of God that will make much more sense, based on the pattern of inventing Gods that don't exist since the beginning of human history.


Agnostics say THIS GOD is open to interpretation. I say THIS GOD as it has been defined doesn't exist.

God makes stern warnings in His word that tribulations will come. As IAMSON had mentioned in a previous post, comparing the suffering of the christians is comparable to a father that removes a splinter from a childs hand. Though the father knows this is going to hurt (removing the splinter), he knows for certain that this is going to help his child heal. Sometimes pain and suffering are needed for something that God knows will be helpful in the future. God advises in His word that His thoughts are not our thoughts, so to imply that because you dont understand and it seems wrong you take it upon yourself to reject it, that isnt necessarily true. It makes sense from a fathers prespective that suffering can be beneficial for a child. Letting them go on their own to see them fall on their face in the world isnt something you would call HATE but is love because once someone has suffered these things it makes it harder for them to fall in the future and allows them to pass this same knowledge to their children. And if they didnt have this guidance they may never amount to anything in life. I think that this is comparable to God. He allows suffering for the better. Even though we dont like it, it can be very necessary to life and in a life we have yet to see (not suffering but the results that suffering caused). That is my opinion.

I agree with you truethat. Even the bible says the same thing.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Right on!

Exactly, so what's the confusion about the God blame. If your explanation is "sometimes its got to hurt" then OK wiping out the Africans with the aids epidemic might be part of Gods plan that we don't understand. If God allows people to go around and say "I do this in Gods name" and then blow up a bus with kids on it, then he's "allowing it"

So he answers the prayers of all his people in different ways. Who are we to question "God's plan" we just have to accept that God allows this, if he exists in the manner that you suggest.

Oh, that's good. I'll remember that whole splinter thing when:

(revelation 11:3)

Sounds like a great learning experience. By all means, torture the heathens, but make sure you don't step on my lawn!

This is referring to the great tribulation which is AFTER the rapture of man (when christ comes back). God says my spirit will not always strive with man, meaning He will only deal trying to witness to man of Christ salvation for a time which is NOW. He strictly warns us that so that we would avoid it by accepting Christ and we will be exempt from this situation. God sent His son to die so that we would be exempt from a Hell that wasnt ever created for man but for the rebellious angels of heaven. If he honestly wanted to torture you and send you to hell he would have never sent his son in the first place to die for sin!

Oh man

And then people wonder why I say I'd spit in God's face if it all turned out to be true.

What a sadistic (rhymes with tick)

The kind of being that would torture someone for not accepting him (for five months no less) is sorta right up there with Saddam Hussein and Hitler in my book and why I started a thread ages ago called "Maybe God is the Evil One"

Even if I could be saved I wouldn't allow that to happen to someone. I just couldn't. The gravy train is pulling out and I've made it and I look out the window to see my jerkwad of a neighbor getting ripped to shreds because of his evil ways.

Sorry but I'd have to get off the train. I'd want no part of that.

And you are entitled to your opinions on the belief. No one is holding a gun to your head. You stated very accurately that Gods thoughts would be different from yours and others, which the bible states clearly also. That contradicts what you said in this post. You say that who is to say what God thinks yet you pre-judge the situation and create your own outlook on the situation. That doesnt make sense either!

I'm not judging God. I just don't see how anyone would want to be a part of this.

He's not human according to the testament right? So I can't necessarily judge him by human standards. I can however judge humans that whoop it up at the idea of doing something like this to another human being?

I judge people who read what you just wrote and think its a good thing.

I simply wouldn't want any part of it.


The ends justify the means.....invented by God and Mastered by Hitler.

KBA...


Let me make something a lil clear to you KBA...I dont care about the rest of the world...I have said it hundreds of times...A hyprocite eh?? dont think so since I dont make claims about what my God DOES to the reast of the world...got that??

I don't believe in the Christian God NOR do I believe in their bible stories... I have my own personal form of god...far from how the christian God...and when I say its my business...guess what??? IT IS MY BUSINESS ... I am not going to preach about all the good that MY God does to the world, cuz I have no intrest in what happens...SELFISH?? YUP that I am. ..I only care about ME and my loved ones....as for the rest of the world...let someone else worry about it...I only worship my version of God...get it now?? I dont care if people wanna convert or not...see BM here doesnt have a religion to follow...I make my own up..and it works for me...I wanna keep it that way. BUT I made this thread and aimed it at BOTH religious & non religious...BOTH...now you dont like it...i say tough...I speak my mind....I dont go around going -----------Ohh my God does this and that and he is sooooo perfect blah blah and then turn and say BTW...he killed blah blah...wtf??

this thread is about the christian God..on how people protray him...............it cant be about MY God..cuz I am the only one that has protrayed him.....<--clear yet??


ohh good lord...talk about silly nit picking LMAO..a mythical character is STILL a mythical character...regardless on his freaking powers....

When you rant and complain about what you believe is just a mythical character.....you dont realize that you are letting others think you MUST believe in him...

I have lost count on the amount of times I have said these bible stories to me are a load of cobblers...none are true IMO they are rubbish....I have the sense to know that it was written by the avarage Joe.....not by God....so when I go to argue the toss over their bible...I will 9/10 say MAN wrote it...man has protrayed god to be like this...and so on....I never act as though I sucked it all in...I will always make a point in saying it was MANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN...yippie ! wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee


Good for you chum....I think how man protrays him is a fruit loop myself...makes the christian God look bad.....I DONT believe in the christian God....just incase you figured I was christian LOL...hate to break it to ya...but a christian would NOT make a thread like this now would they??? <---seriously ask yourself..................would a christian make a thread that gets at other christians and non believers at the same time?? would they?..................I think you will find they wouldnt...nuff said me thinks

But Hey I did it..LOL

And I can understand where you are coming from. That will be a TERRIBLE experience for anyone but this is the thing. It does mention salvation in the tribulation. And it also mentions that those that would convert in these end times would have a seal on them and would not be harmed. If you pay attention to the scriptures it mentions that EACH tribulation seems to get worse or has worse effects on earth and humanity, this implies that God is saying these are my last warnings. If you heed me you will be protected, if you deny you will be in torment. He specifically mentions that even after experiencing and witnessing these atrocious sights and experiences that men will STILL deny Him. He increases the intensity in each seal to try and sift out the believers from those that TRULY out their own WILL want to deny Him. That being said, It appears that Gods intentions are not to make man suffer but are His ways of giving man a wake up call to tell them that He is God and truly wishes to bring salvation to Him if He would accept it. As to why God works this way I do not know and cannot question that because He is superior to me....but with that information it does appear that His intentions are not to kill but to bring salvation.

That's why I say that I don't understand this line of thinking and so I don't judge God if he is who you say he is.

But even if I wanted to believe I would reject it out of principle because I feel the punishment for not conforming exceeds the crime and is the mark of an insane or evil being.

And I understand exactly what you mean. I cannot criticize that statement. But I would at least "tests" Christs offer of salvation and ask for evidence to be displayed in your life from the Holy Spirit. I mean technically you have nothing to lose. But again I respect your beliefs to the fullest.

hey thanks for the respect! Cool!

See this is WHY i dont follow the christian God...man has wrote this...it looks like a way to put fear into others...sounds more like a dictator than a God
I dont worship the christian God..so how come I dont go through torment??....So christians stick a lable on God..and descide to tell others that you must follow their God or face the consequence!!
Its amazing how man can speak for God....so God in their eyes must not be able to speak for himself then huh?

The God I follow is one I cannot speak for when it comes to others and the rest of the world..I can only speak about my own personal experiences...not anyone elses...and I cant say, who goes to heaven or not...its silly to pretend to know all...why pretend to know all ....when you really dont know

However if you are just believing in things like it...fine....but you have to at least try and understand as to WHY others wont follow your God

If man did not write that God was a killer...or write about all the harsh things he has done...and so on...then a lot more people would take intrest....so its no fault of God...just man

The time we are living in now is not the tribulation first off....God mentions that CHRISTIANS would have tribulations in life, now that doesnt mean anyone else WONT have trials and tests in their lives. I dont know everything and I dont claim to know everything, that would state that im all-knowing, which common sense answers your question. I understand that others do not want to follow and that is ok but I try to clarify as much as I can to help eliminate the possibility that a human may be rejecting God because of a bogus false claim by another individual that contradicts the true meaning of the Word of God (now this can also be contributed to me believing a Lie, but If It were PROVEN it was a lie I WOULD drop my christianity) that is known. God said my people are destroyed by a lack of knowledge.

Hairston, you have won my respect and admiration in the last 3 or 4 days. Awesome, you rock. I've been hard on you in the past, but I see the real you a little better now and I like it.

I respect your views

But tell me do you believe that God has killed??

Agreed.

true, I gained a signifiant understanding of God's nature after I became a dad. (Of course this is all with the stipulation that this glimpse of God's nature is probably still significantly narrow, since I'm only human.) But here's in part what I mean: If one of your boys plays with dirty water and gets sick, does that mean you "allowed" him to get sick since you are responsible for teaching him not to do that? Of course not, you did your part by either teaching him the dangers of doing that (if he's old enough to understand reasoning) or by telling him to just stay away from it (if he's at that point where no matter how well you explain it he's not capable of grasping that yet).

So, why is it if a man has sex with a monkey, catches a virus and then passes it on (one of the theories for AIDS) somehow that means God is wiping out Aficans with AIDS? Why is it if people engage in activities they know to be risky and then they get hurt, suddenly it's God's fault? Why is it if people spite the Creator and then He comes along and proves His complete mastery over His creation by wiping them out, God must be a horrible guy?


It's not just about accepting it. It's also about asking ourselves what are we going to do to change it, or to help those in bad situation. God has "allowed" things to happen because He wants us to see the effects of our decisions, and also because He wants us to see how we can make a difference. I think He answers all our prayers from the same standpoint: "Which answer will teach them the lesson they need to learn?" Sometimes the answer is, "Yes, I will intervene in a way which will leave no doubt that I intervened." Sometimes the answer is, "I will intervene and will do it in such a way that those who know me will clearly see My hand, while those who choose not to know me will have enough wiggle room to be able to explain it away." Sometimes the answer is, "I will not intervene, because it is important for you (or those you're praying for) to experience the consequences of your actions." I don't see God as the celestial John Kerry waffling around. I see Him very much as a Father insuring His children learn the lessons which will insure they grow to be mature adults.




true, would you be upset if I insulted your Dad? Would it be proper for me to do so, just because I disagreed with him?


Ah, but what if when you got off the train to save these people they told you, "I don't want to hear it! If you want to believe that crap, go ahead, but I'm not buying it. Stop trying to shove your "salvation" down my throat!" and no matter how hard you tried to help, no matter how much you pleaded, no matter how much you sacrificed for them, they still refused to accept the free train ticket you offered? Would you take out a gun and forced them on?

That's how Christians feel.

I think it's important for those of us who do believe in God to remember that He's not actively trying to win converts. He's offering salvation for any who want it, but if He was really trying to win converts He could do all sorts of things to insure He got them. So, there is no way, I believe to simply convince someone that God is real, they have to make that "leap of faith" on their own. And trying to convince others of God's reality is what leads to so much contention and disagreement, all we can do is provide answers

Great post hairston!!

Uhh her dad would be a real life human being IAMS..there is a big difference in a persons dad..and what you wanna believe is your dad...

If someone says they spit in the face of God..that dont mean they can actually do this LOL God is something we that follow him..just hold as a belief...not the same as a real dad here on earth

NOW..

Question to you if you don't mind

Do you feel its right for some chrsitans to claim their God is responcible for tragic deaths ie the 9/11 or something like ...............




Blew up the shuttle did he indeed??



this guy is a christian but makes claims of God being responcible..along with many others like him...and sad acts getting children to hold up their hate signs.........and if God HATES America..then he must hate you all that live there including you christians...thats saying if you BELEIVE this clap trap

So..can you tell me if you agree with this??

I'm only going to address these two points because I think they are the most important.

To quote Stan Lee with great power comes great responsibility.


First my parent example. I used to think the same way you did Iams and its because I am a parent that I no longer believe in God. Because I know what its like to have someone younger than me, weaker than me, dependent on me, spite me.

Would I kill my child because he didn't listen to me? No. And someone who does IS in my opinion sadistic.

Here is my example as a parent.

When my oldest son was 2 years old he used to run in the kitchen when I was cooking and touch the stove. He did it n o matter what I said. It drove me nuts because I was always scrambling in fear to get to the stove to protect his little fingers.

One day I decided, ok enough. Let him touch it, let him touch it one time and then he'll know what you mean. Well he touched the stove and I had left the dial at 450 degrees and he burned his finger not too bad but it hurt him.

I realized then, that I did it the wrong way. I let him touch it when it was too hot. I could have taught him when it was 300 or 250 "hot" maybe he needed it to be really hot who knows. But I realized there are degrees.

Thinking of God I realized that throughout his history God has turned the temperature dial to 1000 degrees and melted the tips of the child's fingers off and stated. "I told you not to touch the stove"

If God needs to open up a can of whoop ass in order to get people to obey him then all I have to say is that he's not a very good God then, now is he? So why should I worship something that has to resort to murder to get his point across?


Second, you miss the point. I'm not getting off the train to try to get the people to get on it. I'm getting off the train because I would rather burn with the sinners than ride that train to heaven and sit with people that think its Ok to torture and murder people for not worshipping and obeying God.