you guys don't believe in God... therefore we don't have a creator to answer to... when we die, it's all over... nothing more...

so i want a simple answer.... if we all evolved from the same cosmic accident... then there is no right or wrong... because we are no higher than rocks... and they can't do right or wrong... since we are all just matter... is it wrong for a 39 year old to have sex with an 8 year old... if we don't have a higher power to answer to and we all just die anyway... why would it matter?

if you do think it's wrong... why is it wrong if we are all essentially made up of the same material... technically we are all the same age since we are made from already existing matter....

why do you feel strongly about why it's wrong or right? who programmed that response into you?

just curious...

What does that have to do with Atheism?

I love how people think all atheists believe in big bang or evolution or whatnot.

I am a skeptic. I don't believe anything until its proven.



But as to your question. It would be wrong because the eight year old is a child and can not give consent to have sex with a 39 year old. As a human being we have a duty to make this life as decent as possible by being decent.

But also as to your question....uhm you might want to direct that towards people who do believe in God because there are many instances of this being OK in the bible and the Qu'ran. Maybe not 8 exactly but young girls given without consent to older men.

I agree an 8 yr old cant give consent to have sex...its absurd

I realy do not hope you think the only reason you should not run out and rape a 8 year old is because your religous.

As the the question, I find it silly not gonna answer it with more than saying it was not religious people who invented the "rules" behind society

ABSOLUTELY ..atheists and other non christians see it as WRONG regardless

You dont have to believe in God to know the difference between right and wrong...that itself is a no brainer

I programmed myself to know its wrong.
What does this have to do with atheists as Truethat asks?
Morals is what this is about and I certainly didn't receive mine from a non existent figment of imagination.

We atheist are wicked little heathens aint we.

Yes......yes we are. Now if you will excuse me I'm going to pull off the legs of a daddy long legs.

I think maybe..some religious folk think that if you are an atheist, you dont have good enough values, and you cant tell right from wrong.............like I said I THINK..that means I am only assuming

A christian once told me that if a non chrsitian/atheist leads a good life without accepting Jesus...regardless...they will still burn...cuz of one tiny lil thing..like accepting jesus

YET..its OK for them to tell you ...you must accept Jesus...and at the same time let you know that you are not accepted by their God if you remain an non believer...I say what gives?? but see its their beliefs...so sigh I accept their beliefs ok..but I dont agree with them

I dont bother with that, i get a fly swat and go on a mass extermination Me bad.

Perhaps I would like to remind people that morals started with atheism and not religion. Religion ripped off morals from the good atheists as atheists were here long before any religion even was a thought.

Way to twist his words.



But the question is why, in a given amount of time, what ever you do is not going to have an effect on anything. So why do we still abide by morals?

What if you killed the Jesus of flies? I mean what if there was a divinely inspired fly that set out to teach the other flies to stop listening in to people's conversations and eating feces. And this fly was going to show them the way.....and then......smash...too late.

Have you ever thought of that when you so carelessly swat?

Twisting what words?? incase you may have missed it...he said I HOPE...meaning he was not making assumption nor was he twisting words

What do you mean when you say -- in a given amount of time, what ever you do is not going to have an effect on anything. So why do we still abide by morals?

What makes you say this??

Are you saying that if an eatheist does good in the world, it wont have any effect?? is that what you are getting at?? please note im not twisting your words here, im just ASKING

Why do we still abide by morals?? cuz we are believe it or not good people...those of us that dont follow a religion ..or God the christian god even

In a way...when someone says whats the point in an atheist doing good, cuz it dont have any effect on god..due to them not converting...thats like looking down your nostrils at the atheist

well.....tough really.
Besides im not the one torturing them. chaoszerg is pulling the legs off them . My way is quick and reasonably painless . Im so nice. They are the only insect i will remove from my presence shall we say. When they keep bouncing off the cieliing when im trying to go to sleep. It drives me nuts.

Oh and it would teach the other flies to pay more attention to their surroundings

Poor Jesus Fly.

Thanks buddy if we ever rob a bank and you get captured by the police at least i know you wont back stab me and drop me in it also lol

"Arrest him officer..I had nothing to do with this...dont believe him if he says im involved...after all you dont wanna take the word of someone that pulls the legs of flie now would ya?

LOL just messing

No Problem Its because im not a selfish person, i like to share things. Especially blame.

Because of social contract. That's all. If we lived in a society that allowed this, like for example the Judeo Christian era where it was OK for Lot to have sex with his daughters being that his wife was now a useless pillar of salt, it would be a different story.

It is wrong for a 39 year old to have sex with an 8 year old if the 39 year old is raised in the social framework of this society. In a society where this was considered normal it wouldn't be considered immoral.

In that case however I might argue that the penis of an 8 year old boy is not really conducive to having sex and the vagina of an 8 year old girl is not likely to be able to handle having sex with a 39 year old man. Therefor its really based on health and psychological issues and those are then played into the social contract we have with one another. Based on biblical test this isn't such a bad thing, so we can presume it is based on social development and realizing things like "unwanted pregnancy" in children of a young age is an unhealthy detriment to the entire society.

The sexual act is on the one hand taboo, and on the other not reflective of the natural development that comes with puberty.

Were you to argue though---- why is it wrong for Mary Kay Latourneu or whatever her name is, to have sex with the 12 year old student in her class, I would argue it was because first and foremost that she was his teacher. Seeing that she is now married to him and they are trying to raise their two daughters together it strikes me that perhaps this is not necessarily a wrong thing. But something that doesn't fit in to the paradigm of our society.

Were these two part of a tribe in the Amazon for example it might be a non issue except for the fact that she was married.

Why is it wrong to cheat on a spouse? Because of the marital contract. Which some people disregard.

We live in a society and once we are aware of living in the society we have the option of biding by its rules or attempting to find another society in which to live.

You can't cull the rules you don't like from the social contract. Either you abide or you are removed from society.

This really has nothing to do with morals. Its not a moral argument.

We live in a society that doesn't recognize an 8 year olds ability to make that decision so it is viewed as illegal.

^ Excellent Post.

Social Contracts are an excellent example of "morality" without religion. We don't kill, rape, murder, and destroy instinctively because to do so frequently would destroy society. It'd be total anarchy. "Morality" and "Justice" are two very different things, but its not entirely impossible for one to evolve into the other.

Human beings can do horrible things, yes, but its also very natural for humans to be empathetic with each other. Humans see others suffering because of terrible acts done to them, and its easy to see how destruction and death affects people negatively.

You say that man is from God because we have morality. But is our morality really so unique? Animals kill each other, yes....but to survive. It can be understood why a man would kill another if his survival was at stake. Animals do not cause destruction out of malice or sadism...but man does on occasion.

my thing is this... why do we need right and wrong? if you believe there is no God to answer to... why can't we all just go out and do whatever we damn well please... i think too many of you were focused on the 8 year old... it was an example of the right and wrong thing... i wasn't asking if you would have sex with an 8 year old...

If God doesnt exist, then yes, we could go on a rampage of evil without fear of spiritual retribution, but remember that the law still punishes for many offenses in the Bible. Even if the law didnt exist, I doubt many Atheists or Agnostics would routinely perform evil acts. We see the suffering of our fellow man just like everybody else, and we dont wish to add to that.

very good post... best one i've read all day...

I'm curious, does it say anywhere in the bible that it's wrong for an adult to have sex with a child?

Also curious, why do you need the fear of god to do right? Are you really that horrible of a person that you need the threat of hell to be good?

I have to answer to myself and that is a stiffer penalty than answering to some fairytale entity.

YAY lets hear it for Kratos...once again he has hit the nail on the noggen

it doesnt say it in the bible ..not a dickie bird on the 10 commandments neither...hmmmmmmmmm makes you wonder if they believe its ok

well if you believe the fairytale that there is no God or afterlife... why do you care about answering to yourself... you obviously won't care when you die...

yeah, that's a great argument... the bible doesn't talk about a lot of stuff... and i hope you don't think the commandments stop at 10....

IMO we created right and wrong, and religion and the idea of god spawned from that.

You care while you alive though. You have peers and a society to answer too, you have friends and loved ones. Atheism has no correlation is being amoral. Society teaches us morality, not the church, we don't live in theocracies.
True that: excellent and well thought out post.
You maybe should be less asinine with what you post, it only makes people less respectful of you and degrades no one but yourself.

Lets pretend BM here is an atheist..just for a moment ok??

To say I don't believe there is a God and I dont believe in religion (well that lil part is true lol)....I am aware that others that believe, only base it all on a belief...which to me sounds like more of a fairy tale than anything else

Now how on earth do you explain that me saying, there is no God, a fairy tale????

Since when do you read fairy tales (REAL FAIRY TALES LIKE IN KIDDIES BOOKS ECT) ...that has stories on NOTHING???

once apon a time there was this lil girl, she believed there was nothing in the sky besides the clouds and the birds..appart from that she believed there was nothing more...then oppsie writters block...what else can you say or add??

gimme a break will ya on an atheist believing in fairy tales that there is no God

You show NO respect for an atheist views...but you expect..them to show YOU respect on your views???? what gives??

*takes off the atheist mask*

Well kid, the only way I can explain this, and the concept of the "social contract" is with an example.

Lets say you work hard to save money to by a slick, cherry car. The car of your dreams, all tricked out, and personalized. Now, here I come, and I see your car and think to myself "Self, that car would look so good in MY driveway, I think I'll just help myself". And I steal your car. How would you feel? Angry? Upset? Damn straight you would. Remember, YOU worked for the money to get that car.


In an orderly society, we need rules of conduct. It doesn't matter whether you are religious, or not. We still need rules to be able to co-exist in peace. How would I be able to go out to work, to get money to feed my family, and to buy nice things for them, if I'm worried that my neighbor is going to rip me off as soon as I'm out of sight?

So, in a perfect world, I would agree to leave your things alone, and you would agree to leave my things alone. And those that refuse to play by the rules, suffer the punishment of the legal system if caught.


Why does religion have to enter into the mix? It is as simple as "do unto others as you would have others do unto you"
Or, in modern parlance: "Don't start no s%^$, won't be no s%^$"

Get it?

Apparently you don't know me yet. Twisting around my words is not a very good idea.
I care about answering to myself because I have to live with the knowledge that I did something to harm another being.
Do you think because you are a xian that your god and your way is the only way?
You keep right on thinking in your own little world while the rest of us continue to develop and evolve in our thinking. Your way is your way and no one is going to have the answers you are looking for, ever.
Oh yea, about the death thing I don't know what happens when my body ceases to work. I guess I evolve back into the earth and start the process over. Maybe in a few million more years I will be back around, who knows.

I agree joey at this point in human evolution, many need a relgion to tell them how to be...Peace is alofty idea for the majority and few know how to get along without violence of some sort, we havent matured enough as a whole to be able to do with out rules....the constructs that dominate are very primative in their understandings and even though some may see that there could be another way few have the get and go nessecary to stimuylate change for themselves, I don't know if its fear or lack of courage or know how to discern ideas that are of benefit, few discuss whats really important to being human much is useless info....

I think that it is a need for an authority figure. Someone that you have to answer to.

You can get over on your mom & pop ( sometimes); you can evade & elude the police ( sometimes), BUT you can't elude HIM ^^^^^^.

So, if you want a child to obey your rules, you don't tell them "do what I say, or your peer will be angry", No instead, most people would say "Do what I'm saying or your Father will know ( or mother, depending on who the disciplinarian is).

In much of society, the hierarchy of authority is: parent -to- state -to- ultimate authority >god<.


Sadly, many people cannot seem to be good, just because its right. They need a reward system to make it worth their while.

"Why should I be a law abiding citizen? What's in it for me?"
"well, if you are good, god will reward you...."

thaphantum<---went AWOL on this thread LOL


Lets hunt him downwhere are ya ...ye pesky phantum

WTF is going on here? Are people actually defending atheists?!

Oh...oh, I see now...you're trying to lure us in with your nice-nice and then WHAMMO start preaching and stuff...I see what you're up to, don't think I'm gonna fall for it...I'm watching you...

He'd need to be one hell of a wizzard to convince me..and thats only after im drugged to the eye balls and had part of my brain removed 9removed in order to change my mind)...no offnce but my mind is already made up...not one single person alive can draw me to follow a bible