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WTF? No seriously... WTF?

As a hippie, animal lover, all that jazz... this sickens me.

Why on *EARTH* would they think that it's ok to kill the cub, when it's IN A ZOO, because "that's what would happen in nature."

Wait.. wait... for those activists that missed it...

IT'S IN A FRICKEN ZOO! While zoos try to give the animals as much of a natural setting as possible.. IT'S NOT 100% NATURAL!! They are there to perserve animals, they are there to make sure certain species stay alive. And a good portion of animals in zoos are hand raised anyways!

Do you kill human babies when their mothers reject them? No! They're put in foster care or orphanages to be cared for by someone else!!

What kind of idiot are you people?! Seriously, quit making causes that really shouldn't be made.

I had pretty much the same reaction as you.

It's a zoo. I wonder how they got the other animals for the zoo, either wild capturing or captive breeding, or from abandonment or rescue.

Why bother having a zoo? Why not just kill all animals that aren't cavorting happily in the wild?

there are many cases of a polar bear or any bear for that matter raised by humans properly in a zoo setting capable of living normal lives and interacting with other bears in captivity normaly killing it is insane and these people need to take a good long look in the mirror break it and then slit there rists with the shards because they would be helping more animals by killing them selves and take it form me people i am a zoologist most of these groups hurt more then help

Haha. For some reason this reminds me of the Simpsons where Homer and Lisa go to the zoo and Lisa is complaining about how evil zoos are and Homer says something along the lines of, "The zoo opens up a whole new way of life to the animals, sweetie. Where else would they be able to experience boredom, obesity and loss of purpose? It's the American dream."
I can't understand why it would matter if a captive bear is hand-fed. I love animals and I even once, just once tried to understand PETA, but they are the worst monsters ever. Whoever this guy is who wants to kill the bear sounds like just the type of guy they would want in PETA. It's really pretty idiotic. It's not like they want to release the bear into the wild...

I can't believe that they can't see anything positive about the bear being in the zoo. It may give scientist to watch how the animals grow & the fact that it might be able to be used to procreate. WHY NOT?!!

Like you, organgrinder, when I hear reasoning by animal activists...my head explodes! Can you see that from where you are?

bear was not left in wild - somewhere another zoo will take him...
hate when humans think they have power...cause thay real bad at it.....

They call themselves animal acitivists?

So they say since the mother didn't want him that they should kill him. Does that mean that they also believe that if a human mother doesn't want her kid, we should just kill it unstead of giving it a home?

I always thought that activists (in whatever capacity they place themselves) were for the rights of their subject.

Killing an animal doesn't sound to me like they are standing up for its right - to live. If it is in a zoo, it may not be free, but then again it would probably be killed in the wild by other animals.

As an afterthought, if freedom should be available to all living things, how come humans are often the most captive?

how about we take these activists and do what nature would have done with them...


Break their limbs and throw them to the bears to eat...make them useful to the grand scheme of life.


This is why I hate groups like PETA and such, they try to act like they know better then what nature and good old fashioned human caring know about animals and what to do with them. Good old fashioned human arrogence, disgusting.

Agreed. 100%.

I will be very surprised if this isn't a move cooked up by a PETA faction.

If the situation were different, the cub was born in the wild and some animal exploiter took it after it was abandoned and attempted to raise it some road-side hell-hole tourist trap I would probably be up in arms too. But to kill him rather than feed him. That's just sad.




Some of these so-called animal lovers put animals above humans in all aspects of life. I doubt it will be too long before they suggest just that.

Ugh, I can't stand these animal activist types! PETA has killed more animals than I care to think about. Including an experience I had personally where I saw them basically kill a rare tropical bird then flee from the cops. They're horrible people.

Polar bear cubs have been very successfully raised under the watchful eyes humans. Klondike and Snow in Florida at SEa World are a really good example. I saw them there about 7 years ago. Wonderful experience. Like this story, their mother rejected them and died.

There sure is a big difference between animal lovers and activists.... the activists of orgs like PETA, Im convinced are actually animal haters. *chills up the spine**

Thereis absolutely NO reason to put this poor cute as hell polar bear cub down. I am DISGUSTED supposed 'animal activists' would even SUGGEST such a thing.

Instead of shooting the bear, can we shoot the "Animal rights" activists?

This seems to me like a classic case of extremists falling in love with their dogma to the point that they lose their compassion. The cub isn't an abstract principle-- it's a baby animal. Raising it by hand isn't going to destroy the species.

I'm an animal nut, but I could never get behind the "animal activist" movement. Like all extremists, they're out of touch with what's important.

I never felt the slightest desire to wear fur until I saw a PETA demonstration. At that point I felt like wearing the furriest coat I could find, encouraging them to throw blood on me, and then returning fire with some pepper spray.

This is crazy! I thought PETA was for the safty of animals? Stupid humans.

They are supposed to be, but they are extremists and a willing to hurt animals themselves to further their case.
Extremists are never good.

now that you've said that. i totally agree with all of you guys. rather than those activist i could easily replace them. and take good care of the animals in the world. F*** they call themselves activist when they tried to kill an innocent motherless, brotherless bear cub. sheesh for god's sake.

REALITY CHECK FOR PETA FOLKS: the animal is not an abstract experiment. It's alive. It's very young and good people from all over the world are responding to it in the natural way: they want to protect the baby. Is that really something that PETA wants to destroy?

If the bear cub was in the wild- yes, it would die. If the PETA people were in the wild, they'd probably die too. Luckily for everyone concerned, they're not in the wild.

Honestly, these PETA fanatics have totally lost it. (actually, they lost it a long time ago so I don't know why this latest episode of anticeptic indifference should surprise me).

Woah Woah Woah!

Before you guys go barking up PETA's tree again, read the article abit more carefully. As much as I think PETA needs a reality check, they are *NOT* involved with this.

This is in Germany... And the two "animal rights" groups that are the ones to be mad at are...

German Federation for the Protection of Animals and Four Paws.


If yer going to be ticked off... atleast direct your anger to the right spot. *laughs*

PETA and their peers just infuriate me. And I tell my PETA the Animal Killers Story every time I get the chance.

I used to raise tropical birds, some fairly rare. I was at a bird show where many bird lovers from around the USA brought their beautiful and in some cases very very rare birds to the show to highten awareness among the general public about these magnificent creatures and give them a chance to see some breeds that they might not otherwise have a chance to. Some of the people who participated actually had zoological licenses to keep some types that the average person cannot keep.

After the show, when we were loading our birds into cars to take them home, one of the women we were with (she was older, in her late 60's perhaps even early 70's) was assulted by 7 PETA activists who quickly restrained and set her Major Mitchell's cockatoo free. We all saw this happening and raced to her aid, but couldn't get there in time to stop it. As soon as the bird was free, the activists ran off and jumped into cars and sped away. We all watched in absolute HORROR as the bird flew into traffic and was killed by an oncoming car. Luckily this sweet woman was not harmed physically, however the mental damage was significant.

I'm sorry, these people have NO respect for HUMAN rights OR animal rights. I believe that they are in fact mentally ill and should be locked up.

And yes, we KNOW they were PETA, they'd been picketing the show the entire weekend hassling the general public too. The police never caught them, but we did get our spot on the evening talking about the terrible crimes these zealot nutbags perpatrated.

There's another story about PETA killing thousands of unwanted pets in North Carolina as well. Then dumping the bodies in other peoples privately owned dumpsters. There was a big thread here on UM about it.

And yes, I know this Polar Bear cub case does not involve PETA, but it involves one of their peers... they're guilty by association.

I'd like the person who brought PETA into this to come to me.. I need to explain "message board hysteria" to you. You've made Missmiss all mad!


*hugs Missmiss* PETA are loopy, that is for sure... But fear not, they are not the ones wanting this polar bear's death.

LOL SC! I needed that hug! These animal rights activists make me SO mad! hahah!

**proceeds with footstomping and general huffy righteous indignation and hissy-fit behavior**

Animal rights activists would have a good point. If they knew how to use it. Unfortunatly, it's filled with people who haven't a clue and just make the cause look horrendously bad.

Thanks for the info Mattshark. These people are nuts.

Poor bear, they might just want to keep an extra eye on it while these animal rights people are going mad. I wouldn't put it past them to steal the bear from the zoo and then kill it.

Brava!
Zoo's are torture chambers for animals. Why would anyone put animals, who are *natural* prey, in such close proximity? I've seen wolf packs and bears right beside elk/deer... It's humanity insanity. Zoos should be boycotted. As always, imo.

people people calm down... we can discuss this issue in a mannered way. no i've heard enough on the two sides. i'm now neutral. ok zoo's to some are Torture chambers. example is the post before me. second zoo's are created so that some of the endangered species would live. so in all of this i'll stay neutral

But they're about to put polar bears on the endangered species list and this activist wants a zoo to kill one!

Your attitude makes sense, Kretos. This activist's point of view doesn't.

You act as if they don't feed those wolves and bears. Quite the contrary... they're feed so regularly they're never in need for food.

Zoos have kept many species alive, recover dwindling populations (Remember the Condor? ;P) and keep the animals safe from most harm. (wearther and earthquakes not withstanding)

Very true Silver Cougar.

As long as zoos have enrichment programs for the animals they are not to bad. To put an animal in a small cage and leave it with nothing to do is cruel and the animal usually goes insane. Pacing back and forth is not a natural behavior it is a sign of insanity. Zoos are getting better, doing things like hiding food so the animal has to search for it. Giving them toys to play with and changing them to keep them interested. Polar bears are in a lot of trouble in the wild and no animal that is healthy should be killed. Zoo don't hand raise to make an animal tame, but it does make them easier to handle. In this case the activist are wrong. To kill this beautiful animal would be insane.

I did see this on the news and IF YOU ACTIVISTS GO ANYWHERE NEAR IT ILL SKIN YOU ALIVE.

What if I wanna pet it? =(

Do I? Hmmm...



So, you wouldn't mind being taken from your life and put in what amounts to a small cage to be gawked at, and fed when someone else wants you to eat?



Zoos are also stripping natural tendencies of wild animals. We cannot justify what we've done, and continue to do, in the name of knowledge.
My guess is you'd be pacing madly while locked up...just like the animals do.
Anyone who thinks locking animals up is a good thing needs to experience what it's like...imo.

I wonder how she'd feel if someone was putting her in a cage...



Zoos claim to be saving animals, as do a few people on this forum...animal rights, if you will.... How much respect do we show whales and dolphins, sonar creatures, when we put them in what amounts to a fish bowl?

<snip>



Translation (imo): Let's continue to cage intelligent species...after all, we can. Humans dominate the globe, our superiority reigns supreme.

Children, like animals, have no say in their treatment. Someone needs to speak out for them.

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/92512/...Polar_Bear.html

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww so cute!! and it looks so happy

My guess, you've never been to modern zoos.

We're caged in our lives as it is. However, MANY of those animals are bred in captivity. Bred so they can keep many endangerd species alive.
You talk about cruelity in the zoos? What of all the poachers out in the wilds hunting certain animals into extinction. Well.. would had zoos not kept a huge breeding program with eachother... most which are released back into the wild successfully. Those animals hardly had their sences dulled, and many species who were damned near gone all together in the wild owe the fact that they're back in the wild and flurishing because of zoos.

We can justify saving them through Zoos... What we *CAN'T* justify is the slaughtering of many animals in the wild by hunters and poachers. There are a few tiger species that only exist in zoos because the poachers wiped them out in the wild. Polar bears might only exist in the zoos now, and hopefully when the time is right, they can be reintroduced back into the wild...

Most the animals in the zoos are hardly "locked" up either. Herd animals have ACRES of land to roam, wolves and bears equally have huge enclousures specialy designed so that they are in natural habbitates. Same with large felines. Same with birds, in massive aviaries. Free to fly and live in a huge habbitate of real trees and flora...

Truly, do some research. Go to Zoos and ask those who work there... Those animals are well cared for, and are there for more reasons then to "just lock them up".

That very much depends on the zoo. Chester zoo in the UK for example is a charity and runs wildlife breeding programs to help build up wild populations and also takes in rescued animals, it is also carefull with the locations of its animals and does important scientific work and has an excellent education system. You should take each one for a case by case basis, not all zoos are bad. The animals they have should also be taken into account as some animals need captive populations to rebuild there wild populations and some animals are better suited to captive living. It is also very rare for zoos to capture wild animals any more. I would however boycott any zoo holding cetaceans (which is banned in the UK).

Why? There is only a few that can be in zoos... and those can be saved. 'phins and whales are just as hunted and in danger as any other and in need of protection and breeding programs as well.

that bear has a right to live whether it returns to the wild or not its too cute to kill

Cetaceans have much shorter life spans in captivity and it is considered cruelty to keep captive populations in the UK because of there very poor survival rates in captivity (much shorter life spans than wild populations and hence it is banned in the UK) and only 5 countries in the world allow orca captivity. The infant mortality rate is considerably higher in captivity. There survival chances are actually far higher in the wild than in captivity The social structure amongst smaller cetacean means they can not be captively bred for wild release as the can not develop the social skills needed. Also cetaceans have delibrately taken their own lives in captivity. No cetacean species has ever been succesfully kept in captivity. You have to look at a soecies suitabilty to captivity and cetaceans are not suited and do survive and breed much better in captivity.

killing a cub just cos humans will feed it? isnt that the purpose of a zoo? dumb people gotta waste their time as well

I am a pretty logical person and try not to let emotion get in the way of my opinions. There is no doubt that this polar bear cub is cute and sweet, and logically it does deserve to live. I see no reason why hand-rearing this bear would have any impact on it's behavior.
This quote in the new's article says it all:

It is not a social animal who lives in packs therefore human interaction will do nothing to this bear. They intend for him to live at the zoo anyways.
Someone wanting to kill him seems incredibly insane. There is absolutely no reason!

You're absolutely right. I would no more support a zoo or aquarium than jump off a cliff. Animals are taken from the natural habitat and placed in man-made confines. Our arrogance knows no boundaries.



So that justifies us doing the same? Again - our arrogance is beyond rational thinking.



Nature has a natural order that we're interfering with.



There will always be an undesirable element - it's humanity's greed and need to dominate.



Which tiger species only exists in zoos? No one is justifying the slaughter of animals via poaching... Poaching is despicable, and the people doing it deserve to have the same treatment they inflict.



You can support the capture and unnatural habitat they're forced into, I refuse. I will always support the animal - not our dominance. Do you think a giraffe living in sub zero weather, housed in a heated barn, is a good thing? Do you think elephants in nature tolerate extreme cold? We're taking them from their NATURAL habitat and putting them in a man-made habitat. And you seem to think the animals don't mind...



They are there for making money...the fact that observers may learn something from their captive behavior means nothing. To believe otherwise is naive... As stated, I would no more support the capture and housing of wild animals than I would jump from a cliff.
If the animals are so happy - why do we hear of elephants killing their trainers? How many dolphins or whales have attacked/killed their trainers?
Has the study of these animals determined that killing their trainers is a sign of joy?
Support confining them all you like...No way will I.

That is not strictly true, Chester Zoo is the UK's premier zoo and is a charity. It is not run for profit. It is run for breeding and reintroduction, individuals zoo's should be judged on their own merit you can not compare Chester zoo for example to Seaworld, they are very different things.

I agree that they are in need of protection and breeding program however up to now nothing like this has been achieved in captivity. i am not outright anti-zoos but i do think zoos need to make an effort to replicate a natural environment and genuinly contribute to conservation. however despite best efforst some animals are not suited for captivity,this isthe case in captive cetaceans. they are notorieously diffficult to keep healthy, both mentally and physically, so much so that as att said, some countries have prohibited the exhibition of these animals or have such sever rules on enclosure size that noone bothers anymore.
Although places like Seaworld or $eaWorld as it is also occasionally called claims that they are breeding for conservation they have at the same time said that they never intend to release their animals as they could not survive. Breeding for conservation is only ever useful if at some point reintroduction is planned, something SeaWorld clearly is never planning to let happen. survival rates and age at death are premature in most cetaceans in captivity despite all the damaging environmental factors that they might encounter in the wild being removed. there is also a number of behavioural problems such as increased aggression towards others and themselves; there is only one record of an orca attacking a human in the wild-from which the human escaped unharmed whereas there are numerous in captivity.
You might have heard of the incident last year when a trainer got dragged under water, that was not the first and only time, the same animal has been behaving aggressively for a while and a week before the even during the show as splashed across the news everywhere exactly the same thing happened during a training session with another animal. There have been cases of mother calf aggression where the mother was actively trying to injure or even kill her calf which is hardly natural behaviour. there has also been no recorded cases to my knowledge of an orca attacking another and it resulting in one of the animal's death, again this has happened in captivity and is the reason some of the animals are kept seperately meaning some of them spend a large amount of time in even smaller 'holding tanks'. Orcas swim and average of 70-100 miles a day in the wild, this is in no way equivalent to what they do in captivity which is one of the reasons suspected for the floppy dorsal fin in captivity, a phenomena which Seaworld claims is due to genetics however occurs independently in unrelated animals, overall i'd guess by the pictures in about 90% of their orcas.
The enrichment is poor at the best, these animals are highly intelligent and all they get is training routines over and over again and some enrichment devices which are not anywhere near suitable for them like afew plastic beach balls. if you look at a modern zoo enclosure, what do you expect to see, an environment replicating the natural one,a few places to hide, foliage, water features in the case of big cats mayeb heat coils, enrichment feeding devices , something to scrathetc etc, in chester zo othey will for example lay scent trails for the cats and hide their meat in the enclosure to give them something to do. what do you see when you look into an orca tank? water and a few rocks.this might be what the ocean looks like superficially but it leaves out the complexities of different substrata and most of all sound. Cetaceans live in a world of sound, it is a very importat part of their lives, what do they get in a tank/ the sound of pumps. The people who rehabilitated keiko seemed to knnow this and fed him ocean sounds and gave him natural substrata, currents and other stimulation in his preliminary tank however SEaWorld does not seem to think that is necessary in any way. Nothing is done to encourage echolocation or any form of natural behaviour either as it is done in good zoo.
Oh dear i rambled on for a bit didn't i....sorry i just really don't like SEaworld
In my opinion good zoos taking part in interational breeding programs-as for example Chester zoo which participates in breeding a breeding program that has already successfully released Przewalski horses back into the wild- are an important part of conservation and can be very educating for the public, however the animals should obviously always come first, no matter what and some animals are just not suitable for captivity, as long as zoos stick to that kind of setup -rather than, let's make lots of money by taking animals from the wild and sticking them into such tiny spaces that zoo visitors cannot miss them-i have no problem with them and will support them.
oh and btw as far as I know nowhere keeps whales, orcas, belugas and the like are dolphins as well

As for the polar bear cub, that is just crap, the point of zoos in my opinion is to aid conservation, how are they going to do that if they let the animals die because it might have happened like that in nature?

Only been to sea world once... and then later to another place that was seaworld like.

Let me tell you, the animals at seaworld were living at the Ritz Carliton compaired to the other place. =\


It is hard to keep many animals alive in captivity, that's why zoos are striving to fix that. And I hope someday, they do...

Yeah SeaWorld is a lot better than a few poorer facilites like the Miami Seaquarium but that doesn't mean they are good enough. Most zoos already achieve longer lifespans for their animals than in the wild which is really good but I doubt SeaWorld is tryig to improve much, i have asked about enrichment programs a few times and was told by them that they don't really need enrichment outside training and trainer-interactions

Time to think realisticly though. They can only do what their space, government, funding, and technology can allow. Each time technology comes up with something better and helpful they then need to get the funding to get it.

That's why instead of scorning them, help them.