LOL, says who? Yes, I've read bits of the bible and was raised on it. It's a very good book and has some wonderful lessons and such in it, but was still written by man. When I have a problem that I need God's help, I ask. When I'm thankful for something I thank God. I don't open the bible and point and hope the passage I come across will be the answer to my problems as a sign from God. People can believe in God and not thump the bible in everyone's faces as proof. I think that's foolhardy at best. If I want an answer from man, I'll ask a person.

Um

To prove a negative is a logical fallacy...

At anyrate this thread is a trainwreck waiting to happen. The OP has obviously came with the hope of trampling all over the beliefs of any who disagree with him.

From claiming Hawkings has made a statement without giving a citation to quite obvious Flame Baiting he seems to have gone out of his way to break the rules.


Now on the original statement, that challenging aethiests to prove the non-existance of god (A logical fallacy) it should be note that there is no proof of god that can not be put down to psychological or other phenomena if the person viewing it is of a mind to call it such.

The fact is that it is both impossible to prove and impossible to disprove the existance of god. Short of his appearing in a flying sleigh pulled by a dozen reindeer I can see no way of concluding it either way. And in this day and age such an occurance would result in everyone looking for the strings rather then increasing the faithful...

You remember me telling you my tires are shaking and my alignment's off in the van? That was one big ol bunny.

ok your point is made hard to argue such a sexy woman *hauls nadia off to a private room*

well he hasnt given me nothing in a long time so farewell old bunny

Chicken. *makes clucking sounds at FT*

whatever you say angel lol

I think you should send me your 1000 then I shall send you the proof that God does not exist.......trust me


I don't need to prove God does not exist because why would i want to try and demolish someone's faith or hopes. If people believe in God because it brings them some type of happiness or meaning to their life then who am i to try and take away or destroy that happiness. I just don't believe there is a God like you believe that there is one. You are not asking me to prove God is not real you are asking me to destroy you're and others beliefs and shatter what hopes they have after they pass on.

It is impossible to "prove" a negative.

He's not looking for scientists to prove to himself that God exists, he's looking for scientists to prove to disbelievers that God exists.

Anyway, atheists don't bother me in the least, we are all responsible for our own destinies.

I find atheists (for the most part) to be intelligent people. I have friends who are atheists.
I never try and convert anyone, although I am a Christian and proud to be one. After all the fewer people in heaven, the more heavenly it will be, so by all means, carry on. All I ask for is respect for what I believe in,the same way I show others respect for what they choose to believe.

Oh thank you very much fluffy I was that close to having that 1000 sent to me then you had to go and ruin it......and i was going to share it with you also........once i reached Mexico and changed my mobile number.

WOW way to go mate...good for you...

I understand both christians and atheists...cuz im just greedy LOL

ah... everyone has to start out with a "rag tag" band of followers... you do see what it grew into don't you? He's been alive for 2000 years... cause if He didn't get up... nobody would have died to pull off a hoax... unless their dumb... what we do know is that they haven't found a body of a man that some claim is dead...

so you get real...

All irrelavent, how peoples bodies from 1st centuary middle east do you think are dug up or found? Also the events in the bible are unsubstantiated so how can you use them as an arguement, not even the Roman records list the events as occuring and they where quite meticulous about such things. It is one thing to believe, I have no problem with Christians, but you are just attempting to deride others and all it does is look bad upon you.

You forget so easy how what you are preachin here is just based on a simple belief...and you want people to respect it and accept it...uhhh tell me how that works?? Cuz as far as im concerned...its a two way street...right?? no?? yes??

I dont believe Jesus rose from the dead...so what if i dont??? what harm can come of me saying so??

I believe God had a son on earth but it wernt Jesus..when you consider the x amount of saviours that came around..all born of a virgin mother..died on a cross..was burried..and rose again according to their scriptures...all of which are hundreds of years long long long before Jesus came about hundreds of years before there was a such thing as christianity

Didnt you know that religions are renown from borrowing from eachother?? NO?? i suggest you loook into it...

Im aware that christian will take a stand and try and defend this..but I can see why they would...after all if they spoke out and said - yes its true chrsitianity is borrowed from another faith, then whats the point in them following christianity?? so yea othey will jump in and say its all lies...wouldnt you??

Also the events in the bible are unsubstantiated so how can you use them as an arguement, not even the Roman records list the events as occuring and they where quite meticulous about such things

I am not really contributing to this thread but I WOULD like for you to send us a link on that. Ive found some VERY influential scholars that disagree with you on that quote. Are you 100% confident on this statement?

If you are tying Mithra, sumerians and dionysus with christianity youve fallen for the ACHYRA S theory, which is proven wrong. I can send you a link if you would like on some of these if you want

everything that anybody writes is unsubstantiated if that's the case... here is a small fact...

there ARE more historical references to Jesus than to George Washington... that is a FACT...

so by your standards... George Washington didn't exist either... for all we know, he could be a myth... i've never seen a picture of him, have you? all i have is people's word to go on... but the masses accept it as fact, only because he didn't present himself as a religious leader....

i guarantee you that if GW was a religous figure... people would doubt his existance too... more so than Jesus... because there aren't as many historical references to him as there are to Jesus...

How can ANY of these faith be proven WRONG...heck thats like saying christianity can be proved wrong...now of course like i said before hand, there will be christians defending these theories, and its understandable...but isnt it only fair to let me believe what I wanna believe?? hmm??

Sorry, but your ignorance is showing.

it is fair BM but even scholars of the religions admit that Its not tied to christianity

I'm not an atheist, so I'm not qualified to take you up on your bet... but this type of scene is what brings me closest to doubting.

Edit: Content of Image removed. This is not appropriate.

The bodies of tsunami victims are seen floating in a mass grave filled with rain water on the outskirts of Banda Aceh, Sumatra island, Indonesia, Tuesday, Jan. 18, 2005 (AP Photo/Peter Dejong). How could a loving God be so cruel?

Well, IMO, there is not a god that picks and chooses who lives or who dies. It is just random nature... we invented the term 'fair'.

My dear, I feel that in your "heated passion", you have lost a bit of sight in your agenda. In the statement above, I could also say that there are more documents surrounding Poseidon, Zeus, Atlas, and Heracles, then there are of George Washington. Does that mean that they are also real? I noticed that from the beginning of this thread, you were very angry. I don't know of anyone that can say for absolute certainty, that there is a god, and I don't know of anyone that can say with absolute certainty that there is not. I respect your faith, and your beliefs, and almost everyone here on UM will do the same, as long as you respect them, and their beliefs. I don't feel that getting angry, and defensive about a topic that you yourself started, is anything that your christian god would have approved of. I understand that you know what you believe, you know where your faith lies, but have you actually studied, and read what your faith is about? I do know, that if I were to be shown absolute proof, of the existance of the christian god, then I would wonder if the other mythological gods actually did exist. I feel that closing your mind, and judging others is not the right way to go. (Judge not lest ye be judged. Matthew 7:1) If you were a little more open, and respectful to others, and their beliefs, then you will see, you will get the same respect in return.

I agree artymoon. I was sickened when I heard people making the claim that God was displaying his holy wrath to the rest of the world by killing people in disasters of recent times.

I third that, if thirding is possible

he's not forcing anything on anyone. he's just asking if any of you can prove there is no god. its the same as on alot of other threads where you guys bash our belief in god. i've got my share of that. but i dont go saying that you are forcing me to believe what you do. he just wants you to back up what you say. no harm.

now your talking.lol

Your "challenge" and actual goal (to force atheists to admit they don't KNOW there is no god) is misapplied, plus it really isn't your business.

Anyone that is a truly reflective and reasoning person will admit they lack FULL, indisputable knowledge of either the existance or non-existance of a "God". As many others have pointed out, and you already know anyway, no way exists to prove or disprove god. You have much potential for critical thinking and engaging debate, if you would set aside your fanaticism and work with reason instead.

thaphantum you talk to much, just like barney does hahahahahhaahhahahahahahahaha
get a life

besides pagans rule

feel free to read the statement below my picture...

so far in this thread i have seen people complaining that the OP is pushing his beliefs on them, or is being stupid. having seen in many many other threads on this board atheist belittle others for beliving in GOD, be they christian or pagan, or wiccan or any other religion, i can understand why he posted this. but i still have yet to see a single person actually give any reason for their disbelief in a deity of any kind. what people choose to do to other people is not proof that there is no god, as theior are people who do alot of good things too, just the bad ones get all the press.

if you can all stop insulting each other about the post and either actually state your reasons for your disbelief (or belief if you really want) aside from faith, or

saying things like "i look at the world...." or quoting others (including the O.P. as this is a personal question since you challenged ANY atheist) i have seen people say it is not possible to prove either way. fine. but why not try? why don't YOU believe. or why do you believe? what exactly has proven to you one way or the other? as i said, the way man treats man is not evidence one way or the other. nor is using the argument that a deity did not do things the way YOU think they should be done. a deity can do whatever it wants, however it wants whenever it wants, and it is kind of arrogant to say i don't believe in you cause you didn't do things my way.

as for the posters of this board being respectful of the beliefs of others, i have seen alot of posts on this forum along the lines of- you disagree with me so you are an idot.

instead of being defensive and just lashing out, how 'bout stating good solid reasons for your beliefs? as well as realizing that just because you have never seen or experianced something, does not mean others have not.

very well put

If you havent noticed, this is called a disscussion forum for a reason, not a casino to make bets with others, what would be the point if you didnt have opinions , We all have the right to opinions its judgement that awaits us all, including you my friend.
You come across as a troubled youth who needs to be in control of something you cant control. Others. Mind you thats just my opnion. There seems to motive here to cause allot of members to conflict with your opinons , Is this your intent? what is the point ?
Im not seeing WHY you even want proof . Maybe if you re-word your thread topic, it can be more effective. Sometimes ettiquet works really well when your new at a disscusion board , some of us here dont allow a hostile enviroment. So please reconsider how others may feel , and if you just need to talk to someone about something that is a obsticle in your life , you will be surprised at how many nice and well grounded people are at this webite as members. The community here has an understanding, its ok to believe in what you want , but playing nice and excepting it without trying to offer money for something is just not cool, { because of the no opinion statement}

Please understand that Im not personally attacking you as an individual , but you must try and be a little more realistic and consider that we all have disscussions and opinions not demands.
I hope youll reconsider what Ive said and think about how your coming off as a new member we havent even been able to really know you yet, let alone respond to such a topic.

Abecrombie

See you agree with that member, and your topic is stateing proof only, .. I hope you can understand why some were not responding in the way you might have thought

peace out
Abecrombie

So, 6 pages later and no one has won the bet huh.

why do you care what my intentions are? do you have a need to be in control by telling me what to do? and i've read a lot of the posts on the site by people who are not new at all... and there is confrontation in almost every thread that gets posted... so... who is it that doesn't allow a hostile environment?

also, there are going to be a lot of members who conflict with any opinion that gets posted... all i can really say is read the quote below my picture on the left hand side...

and just to answer a question for you... the reason i don't want opinions on this is because i already know the opinion... their opinion is that God doesn't exist...

so i asked for proof...

But in order for us to make a decision on what like or dont like , we have to read it first !!!!!!!!!!!!!!




Im sorry your not making sense
Im sure its not something you do with the intention, I myself have a difficult time expressing myself correctly from the brain to the keyboard. Im only trying to help out, yes , Im blunt about it , but honest, I want people to get along or co exhist , dont you?
Communicating things that are confusing to interperate such as your ," If you dont like what I say, than dont read it " not to be contradicting.

Hope this helps some
Abecrombie

P.S Welcome to the Unexplained Mysteries Website, enjoy your stay and be safe.

I think tracing the roots and history of religion is enough proof against there being any one God or Goddess, etc. Religion just evolves, new ones are made, and new believers flock to it and claim it is the right one and their deity has been around foreva~

By bribing them with money rewards, ? That totaly underminds the people you are wanting proof from.
can you see my thought here?

Thats my boy thozzman
well put indeed .

Abecrombie

it doesn't undermine anything... proof is proof... no matter if you offer it for free or get paid for it... proof can't be changed... it is concrete... like proving the sun exists...

by the way... my statement doesn't contridict itself... it makes perfect sense... if you have issue with the stuff i've already said... don't read what i post from then on out... thus...

if you don't like what i have to say... then don't read it... nobody makes you read everytime i post something...

The sun doesn't exist, thats just what the Goverment and other officials want us to think, the sky is really a screen and the sun and stars are projections

yeah, like the truman show... which reminds me of a topic i wanted to post but i'll do it later...

maybe nothing exists at all... maybe you are just on some good medicine somewhere in a crazy house and your dreaming all of this... so technically you are diagreeing with yourself... and the internet consists of all the knowlodge that you have by yourself... well, you get the point... which is pretty much why you are in the nut house...

To tell you the truth your right its a waste of time,.. I tried to be nice about the whole thing and you ignore my view and others,.. Dont be suprised if this thread becomes closed for reason mentioned here by others, Now why cant you meet me half way and be a little more open minded when it comes to others feelings , ?


I getting the impression that Your not a very nice person, you say you believe in god but the your not even trying to understand certain points im making , Why? Are you just being unpleasant to upset people or what?
Do tell

Some things can't be proven, perhaps nothing. The imaginationof humanity is one of the strongest forces on our humble little planet, I guess.

i did meet more than half way... all i asked was for someone to provide me with links that show proof... that's all i wanted was links to proof...

we can throw opinions back and forth all day... the fact is... you don't have any proof, so instead.... you want me to bow to your will... i still want proof... has absolutely nothing to do with mean or nice... and by the way... nobody has been considerate of my feelings...

i've read all kinds of anti Christian propoganda since i've been here... so, who's really the one's being inconsiderate?

did you come in this topic just to start an argument? i simply said if someone could provide proof i would give them $1,000... so it comes down to... either you have the proof or you don't...

Interesting thread Phantum.

Just to put my two cents in, I would have to say that no one could deny the prospect of a higher power. I myself belive that there has to be more out there than just scientific fact. I think that there can be a sort of duality between science and faith in one's religion. When it comes to god and christianity, all anyone can give is either a hypothisis, or an opinionated result, as the whole of religion is not based on fact, but beleif without concrete evidence to state either way as a fact. I hope that made sense.....

I guess the only proof that anyone could come up with is personal proof; something significant to that person.

:edited for an addition:

WTF are you asking of proof of something that you cannot prove to be false? all together this thread is POINTLESS. its a belief plain and simple so let it go.

Thaphantum, you seem to be a pretty convinced guy. So since believer's testimony is supposed to be proof.. then isn't every God proven to exist? There are muslims who claim to know Allah, you get the idea.

I can't disprove a random belief like god. Just like you can't disprove a random belief like a colony of furbies living on pluto. These are things that cannot be absolutely proven or disproven... because they are beyond our extent of research (they could be proven if said gods were clearly active in our environment, which they are NOT.) So it remains a distant belief. There is no proof either way.

Now, I can very well state that I do not believe in any religious god. I am 99.9999999999% sure that none of them exist. There is no reason to believe in one, because as I said before, there is no proof. Testimony is not at all proof, because people are subject to lies, misunderstandings, exaggerations, etc. To me, if god wanted me to know I existed, why would he be distant about it? That makes absolutely no sense.

But the fact is, I don't need absolute proof. I need reasonable evidence, and I have it. The state of the world, the many warring religions who all claim to know the correct god, yet none of those gods want to prove themselves, the chaotic and random universe we live in.. When I take all these things to mind, the belief in god Makes very little sense when compared with a gradual progression due to natural events and growth. Because our world is random, life is random, not everything has a purpose, not everything works correctly. It is imperfect, why should it have a perfect creator?

And Einstein did NOT Believe in a god, at least like religion defines it. That is one of the most annoying Christian misnomers...
(Albert Einstein, 1954)



You need to understand that the world does not bow to Christianity. It is not other people's obligation to respect your religion anymore than you can respect theirs (or their lack of religion). You may believe that you hold the absolute truth of the universe, but you have to put that aside sometimes if you want to debate. There are anti-Christian views posted here as well as anti-atheist and anti-other religions, nobody is favored.



Yep. And there certainly wasn't any god or divine being able enough to stop those disasters.