I think this has probably been done before but I'm curious if people would share their experiences:



Mine I posted elsewhere but I will post it again:


For a long time I believed in God but there were always points in all faiths that didn't add up to me. In other words this is supposed to be "GOD" not some head manager type guy but the grand creator of the universe. And yet in all the texts that I read there were always some silly stuff like "Don't have long hair if you are a man" or "Don't look at a woman's face" it just didn't add up to me that the big cheese out there would concern himself with something so petty. After a while I sorta pushed that aside and figured there were reasons for this that I didn't understand and perhaps it was just the easiest way for God to protect the people at the time because they weren't sophisticated enough to understand things. Like don't eat pork because at the time pigs were dirty animals so just ban pork instead of trying to teach them about bacteria right?
But after 911 I noticed two things. One was that after all the progress we had made in the world we were back to ground zero as far as what human beings were capable of doing in the name of "God" Seemed weird to me. I have no problem with God letting people die because who knows, perhaps they have a better existence perhaps its like Phoenix in X men, beyond our comprehension.

But I do have a problem with stuff being said to be done in God's name that God doesn't say "uh no, that's not in my name" He's curiously silent after having spoken to people forever. Why not come back and clear this up a bit. Then I started having conversations with born agains who were almost giddy during 911 because they felt the rapture was coming. And they really appalled me.

I wrote an angry letter to God saying that to say the physical earth as we know it, is not enough is not really giving us free will. And then I got mad at god for not making things clearer. Why not a flat book that simply states in plain and simple terms what the deal is. Why all these interpretations.

I kept trying to reconcile all the contradictions of not only the text but also the attributes of God. He's inventing the universe but concerned about a haircut length.

Finally as I tried and tried to reconcile, I came to this clear and vivid thought. Pretty much Occums razor. All this confusion and trying to make it make sense when suddenly I thought, the thing tha makes the most sense is that it is not true. If its not true that it makes a lot of sense. And then I felt a total relief on my mind. Like.........no kidding. Like I woke up.

Looking back I can't believe that I ever believed in God. I can't believe how much influence it had over my life and how much I had limited myself as a person because of a mythology. I had researched and researched not trying to disprove God, but simply to try to understand him. And I think a lot of atheists had this approach which is why they are often more versed in the history of religion and in other religions than just the one they were raised in. They were trying to make it make sense.

But it doesn't make sense. It doesn't add up. The flaws are too many to mention.

If you still believe that this is part of some huge huge plan I can respect that because perhaps you will find your way and faith helps.

But at the end as I live my life I feel like prior to this I was almost brainwashed, I don't suggest that believers are but I see the way when you believe your mind is clouded with faith, which is a good thing to some.

To me it was clouding my truth.

The fact that it doesn't add up the way the testaments say so and the fact that I am more at peace and happy since "waking up" are two of my own personal proofs that God as he is described by believers does not exist.



Part Two of my proof.


Now that I had come to the conclusion that it was made up I started investigating pretty deeply. For example Joseph Campbell they Power of Myth and seeing that this wasn't one story but rather an archetype that has been repeated over and over again by mankind since the beginning of time.

So to some believers they would argue, as I used to, that this is evidence that God does exist because why would all these separate cultures have the same mythologies. What purpose would it serve.

What I realized then was that there is the evidence. We know now that all Greek gods for example are human invention. So all that this did was give evidence that it was made up. If all the other God theories turned out to not be true, then it stands to reason that down the line this God theory would face the same fate, especially if it was based on the same archetypes.

I realized that we see ourselves in the here and now and don't understand that in 1000 years people are going to look back on our history and see the JudeoChristian Muslim era just as we look back on the Greeks. And the Greeks god stories were believed for I think about 5-6 thousand years. So two thousand years of Jesus is chump change.

In the end its just another version of the archetype.

My interest now is why we as humans need and respond so well to these archetypes and if you notice in popular culture you will see that for example Star Wars was really inspirational to a lot of people and had a lasting impact. JR Rowling based the Harry Potter series on this archetype.

ETA Joseph Campbell was a historian who studied ancient mythologies. He was asked to assist George Lucas in writing Star Wars.

There is something about it that really connects with people.

Once I began seeing this as just one more of the "God stories" it lost all power to me.





Someone asked me about Biblical contradictions and there are soooooo many that its a bit much to address on here but if you investigate it yourself you will see what I mean.


Now I allow that you might not think that this is the case, but I interpret them this way.


Here are some sources that have the details. I might not agree with the site. Keep that in mind and don't think I condone the sites but here are the details


http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...radictions.html


http://dim.com/~randl/tcont.htm


http://www.krysstal.com/contradi.html

This was just a quick google search. You can if you make the effort, find better sources.

I'm not what I consider to be atheist but I am a nonbeliever of gods. I have never taken anything at face value and have always sought the answers to things I couldn't understand. I was never a good xian because I didn't shut my mouth and take their word for it. Once I began to study the history of religions I began to see a pattern of the same stories but with a little twist to each of them. This was and is very suspicious and I just can't leave it as it is. I'm not afraid of what people think, frankly I really don't care. To each his own. I agree with you that if the greek gods were man made then so are allof the others.
I have no idea why I keepcoming back here because things don't change. The mods on the spirituality v skepticism site are all xian, how fair is that? When we nonbelievers get to close or point out the obvious we get slapped on the hand.
I have learned over the years of hanging around here that there are so many different beliefs within a belief system that it's hard to keep track of them all. I try very hard to appreciate other peoples points of view because that's how we grow as human beings.

i agree with this and will add that there is alot of sensitivitys here...I wonder if the deeper we are invested in a beleif structure the stronger one has to defend it..I'm not an athiest , i find value in many places, i'm here to experince life not be a beleif system and quite frankly they are all made up anyways so I apply the best of em and see how it goes beyond that who cares...i come because minds as this Curiousity and BM and Hyper and Gid and Mako and BM and Gw Rev,Joey, AR, Arty, and True, Texas,KBA, Zero etc so many if I have forgot anyone its just i don't feel like typing anymore, i like thinkers and i like to learn and there are some high powered minds on here..so thats what interests me....

I was raised into fundamentalist Christianity, I was blinded by the idea of God.. I became an atheist after one person I knew, who was more kind , considerate, and less judgemntal than any Christian I had ever met, but just happened to be an atheist... asked me "Do you think I'm going to hell?" Well.. I reluctantly answered yes, and I realized that was so horribly wrong and unfair.. and at that point it clicked.. I started looking at the Bible from a non-faith based point of view to try and truly examine it, and after a few months I had become an atheist. I think you get to one point that most Christians will not understand until they have been there. Being a Christian.. or at least a very devout one.. gives you this "mental block" if you will, where God is an absolute.. like gravity. earing someone say "God does not exist" while trapped behind that block.. Just becomes an excuse or fallacy, you can't even accept that someone truly believes God does not exist. I used to hear atheist arguments and I would think to myself.. "there's no way they really don't believe in God, they just want to live a sinful life". It's difficult to explain.. I guess I would go back to the gravity thing.. It's like trying to tell a man from the 1800s that you can fly.. They would be in absolute disbelief.. he must be lying! Nobody can fly! Then you hop in a bi-plane and fly, to his disbelief.

WOW that is awsome..how you told your story on how you became what you are today...it was one of the rare times when i actually payed attention LOL

I too came from a religious back ground...I didnt turn into an atheist..i just turned my back on the church and the bible

I love how you showed KBA your feelings towards an atheist you met that asked you a simple question...your beliefs had you answer - Yes...but your heart said NO by the looks of it

wonderful post from you KBA...and the vibe I pick up is a good one...

Normally I can pick up a vibe from just reading a post...on who is really sincere and who aint...yours was one I found very much sincere...way to go KBA

So good you mentioned me TWICE awww LOL * *nudges her sis & giggles**

i think you hit the nail on the head the absolute thing, most other constructs stay away form absolutes becaseu it puts you in a box limits the view...thats why I stay out side being in a relgious upbringing too being inside the dogma is its own hell, but as you said you just dont' see it, you just have this cloud of unease following you around, i jsut woke up at 7 i was sittng in church at the time and i knew this was not gonna be my path as clear as can be no doubt and i was in the times when this was blashmephy and would receive alot of disapproval for many years to come but the inner truth/wisdom was far stronger ...i wonder if its genetic, as strange as that sounds why do some awaken and some don't??? i can't help but wonder if this isn't the knowing many of the masters speak of many mystics...you just know you need no outside crutches any longer, you need no longer call yourself by any label, you see all as one...unity in all things...but even not really understnading it doens't matter life is wonderous and joyous and free of fear and there is no need for heavens and what nots you just live life to be a benefit for all and its all good even when its not.... i feel its some sort of growth and eventually all get to it in their own way and time..

.truth happens to each of us its natural, what isn't natural is a one size fits all truth, a dogma ...I see the problem in large part being many are to busy telling themselves what their truth should be based on others truths , then their are those that have heard their truth because they have been willing to set aside what they think they know...and the most notable part is is every athiest, pagan, buddhist etc all peoples are saying a similar thing, i just knew. this was my truth and yet though it may have a similar tone to all others it is very much their own few are pushing any adgenda......they are simply sharing the truth they have found inside...that has always been there even when many have been christians and forgot themsleves......If christianaity shows us anything you ccan not make one enlightend its natural and it just happens and it happens to anyone .most delay thier own progress IMO..

edit: sorry for thje double post.. itnernet problems

Very good post Sheri I very much agree.. I also agree about no logner needing to call yourself anything, I simply go by an atheist because the world has a label for every stance these days... But atheism is really freedom from the stereotype of religion or belief, that's what it is.. it is the real core values of oneself and not a group.. you can not generalize atheists because atheists are whatever we want to be, no prophet can tell us what to think, because we choose that path in life.

And thank you BM for your comments yes I will admit it is a topic I am very passionate about because I have grown up all my life around religion even to this day I can not walk 10 feet in my own house without coming across a new bible book or jesus tote bag or bible verse clock, etc.. I feel the real reaches of religion it literally hits home every day and that is what causes me to be the way I am I guess. The world and the universe become so much more vivid and beautiful once you are no longer thinking in absolutes and feel like the answer to all things is in one place I.E. god if you ask me. One of the most beautiful things in life that you can experience is the vast diversity of where we humans are.. You can look into space and wonder what other strange and amazing worlds must be floating around somewhere out there.. Nobody wants to watch a Good movie from the end, nobody wants to know everything because once you know everything there is nothing to learn!

very well said KBA athiest is a great joy the beginning of really knowing yourself, a repose a resting spot... a place to set aside the dogmas and conditonings not becaseu they are bad but beacause this is no longer who you are, wehre once you were blind now you see.... because you have grown into more of yourself .....this is the walk of freedom and the point of really starting to get it what ever that means to you its about unity and love of all, you no longer brand yourself in words of others or constrcts of rules and requirements, you bloom into what you are naturally..no one needs directions for htis it happens....you become sure of yourself .., confidant , humlbe, self assured , without need, without fear, tolerant, unconditional, forgiving, truly kind, truly peaceful. awre that life has all of it and its okay with whatever is, you see the disappointment for hte wisdoms it brings, you no longer exclude anything becaue you kow in doinghtat you don't really live...... etc....welcome back , its that sort of feeling, "I am home' you just love, dig people you require nothing of them other than who they are.... thats the point ...as mushy as it sounds ....yuck but I can't thiink find another way to say it...LOL

No probs KBA...I for one felt your passion from reading your post....I may not be an atheist..but i do understand you...I will look for your posts in the future

I always wondered why my sis sheri..was always quoting you LOL and saying great ect....to be honest BM here was lazy at the time lol...

As for religion...I do recall quoting something you said to me...cuz I thought you figured i was chrstian LOL so I thought...hold up a sec...hold the phone...BM aint a christian LOL blah blah ...and blah LOL

Anyhoo cheers

No no don't worry I always understood you are not Christian maybe deist or something but not Christian..



Well said I think the transition into it is the realization that you are no longer a "follower" or "disciple" or one of "the faithful", you are just you, your life is an open canvas however you choose to paint it. And I am not trying to say of course that atheism is definitely the better or more enlightening path for everyone but for me it is the best. I understand that a lot of people need religion or want religion as parts of their lives... Maybe it is simply a matter of personality.. why some people become atheists and some stay Christian, I guess for me it was only a matter of time, although I don't really like the thought of still being Christian..

Well nahh not really..im just a BM LOL thats the only lable I am proud of

I was born into an Aethiest family. Grew up an Aethiest. I have experimented with other beliefs but have never found anything that felt... right.

After reading a post by Curiosity today I would consider myself more of a Non-Theist then an Aethiest though as I don't disregard all metaphysical practices out of hand...

However my beliefs have been in a constant state of growth for several years. I have attended many different churches, temples and even a synagogue. I have friends amongst several Clergies, I have been to several Dreamings with my Indiginous Freinds. I am currently studying the beliefs of my Rroma Ancestors. I have also learnt a little of Paganism though it is hard to find people whom openly practice it in my area.

All in all I think that all religions can be learnt to increase our knowledge and influence our ability to learn. I also read much philosophy and in part agree with Nitzsches assertion that Christianity is Platoism for the Masses. However after all of these studies I have returned to the conclusion that god does not exist as anymore then a reflection of our selves...

Anyhow that is more or less my feelings on the matter.

Thats so awsome AR...it really is...good for you...Most atheists I know where born into religion then turned...you are one of the 1st that came from amily of Atheists and took it apon yourself to learn a lot...

I think, that if everyone else took some times and looked at other religions...maybe paid a visit to different churches...their views would broaden a lot more....I find how you look at things rather inspiring AR...very much so

I myself looked into WICCA...found that intresting...but there is so much involved....I know these things take time, but it helps you understand more about life and how others see things

WAY TO GO AR

Thanks BM. Don't think I've ever been called "inspiring" before. Must say I quite enjoy it

I enjoy learning about different religions. In my opinion religions are in the end a reflection of ourselves and I think there is no greater pursuit then learning of ourselves. Indeed had I the financial basis I would love to got to Tibet or Sri Lanka to study in a Buddhist temple. I think that would be an incredible experience, Not to mention that I would love to improve my meditation skills. Indeed I have found since I started meditating properly my skills in more or less everything has increased, Uni, Work, Relationships. All because I decided to walk into a Buddhist Shrine once upon a time.

why you ..(scruffes AR ) You are a delight my freind ......i raise my kids the same you experinced your childhood, many think athiesm means a hatred of constructs,have you been to a shaman??? I was once very interesting..My childhood after i was placed with my grandfolks was one of exploration and wonder nothgin was off limits , they leanred with me....LOL...

You have never been called - inspiring?? really...well umm neither have I so join the club lol

Seriously though I find you inspiring..for what you have said..ow you pulled away from being an Atheist and went on a discovery of your own...that my good man, is very inspiring to me...you make me wanna hop on a plane and go see these places lol

Heck if you where a born again I think you would have me paying FULL attention...lol

Hey I know you are so far far far away from Ireland...but if you ever fancy a 32 hour trip..hop on a plane, and take yourself off to Ireland...it has some beautiful churches and wonderful sites....come anytime this month or nect...bring a raincoat and a good pair of thick woolen socks cuz right now its bloddy freezing over here...we had ourselves a snow blizzard last night...

Your welcome to come over here any time...I'll be your tour guide LOL ...ohh good grief LL BM a tour guide...your head would never be out of bars LOL kidding

Nope. Never saw a Shaman. Don't think the Shamanistic beliefs are to strong in Australia. I would like to of course but there are few to be found here. Though I suspect that some of the Aboriginal Elders I have met could be called Shamanistic in their beliefs




Thx

I have to say a tour of the Pubs in Ireland sounds like a great idea. If your ever in Adelaide I could reciprocate of course.

And if I had the money I would without a thought take you up on the offer. However I am afraid it will have to be postponed for a time.

And I have to find that I do find you inspiring in many ways. I can't even concieve of having children. Not only do you have them you are doing an incredible job with young Becky.

I think anyone who can raise a fine child is in a way Inspiring

Well then your own mother must be the most inspiring woman you have ever known she raised you...and you turned out a complete gent as far as im concerned

About Ireland LOL well anytime you like..we'll put you up lol...

I cant imagine traveling for over 30 hours to the land down under lol...knowing me, i'll make a stop off at Cali (usa)...and visit Sheri LOL...well it would be on the way...and say -- Yo sheri hey girly...im on my way to AR's place in Aussie land...and gee im tired of all the traveling...ehhhh do us a fav and put me up for the night..im beat...this is as far as I can go...now whats for dinner?? LMAO

lol. I would have the same problem. I'm not particularly fond of flying at the best of times. And sitting still for 30 hours would kill me I believe. Perhaps we can both meet at Sherris and she can take us on a pub tour of Cali

Yeah good idea..lets both go to Sheris place instead LOL she can cook for us too hee hee


*waves at sheri*

I am a Roman Catholic as of now. Im not saying im totally athiest by any means. But i do not take the catholic teachings ive had over the years and the bible to be totally true. To me....most of the bible is pagan stories and myth. A lot of the bible has acually been removed from its original version so the bible that we use today isnt what it use to be. I think when it comes down to it..religion isnt about God or satan, Heaven or Hell....its about how you live your life. Its a guideline for us humans to keep us in line. And by the looks of it, it only makes matters worse and causes holy wars and conflicts that would never be started in the first place if religion wasnt around. Well this is my outlook on religions and how im slowly becoming an athiest.

I have to agree with you, except for the part of actually calling myself an athiest. I'm simply more on the stance of not knowing what to believe. The thought of a god, or many gods, is hard to fathom, but that's not to say that it's not at least slightly true. I have neither read, nor seen anything to convince me in any higher being. I also feel that religion, and the bible were created as a way to try and control the masses, and when called on it, found themselves fighting to conform the ideals of a myth a reality.

Simple logic dictated that this whole GOD business could not be true.

I wrote the name of every religion on a piece of paper and put it into a hat and then picked one. Somehow I left one of the pieces of blank and ended up picking that one.

That's as good as any other method. Hey, it might be the best. Why? Because, in theory, the "true" answer would pop up most of the time.

Anyway!

Traumatic childhood(won't go into detail), combined with an overwhelming hate for god(again, won't go into detail) eventually turned me into an Ignostic. I don't like to hate, it isn't fun. So, I took the easiest route and simply said "I don't care anymore".

In the literal sense, I am atheist. Although, I do believe a higher order is at work, I believe the outcomes and circumstances are inherently random.
And I must admit, I hesitate occasionally to use the term 'atheist' around family or friends. The term definitely has been given negative connotations over many years, and although I get a sense of rebelliousness when I tell someone... I don't feel disconnected when someone tells me their philosophy. We are generally more alike than we think, we just use different characters or sources to explain it.
I grew up in a Christian church, I had fun there, the people there were great. There is not one event in my life that made me change and say "Eureka!! I'm an atheist!" It has just been a gradual and peaceful evolution to what I believe now. And, I am quite aware that all of that could change later down the road, depending on my perceptions.

some call this enlightened and i agree its simply natural and will most likely change....If one thing is certain life is change...i would of said diest , but I can see athiest.... you could say I have outgrown the concept of god as currently understood, defined and excepted....or i don't do lables.....*smiles*

Yeah, I don't like labels either. That is another reason I don't use the word atheist much, because it gives people the impression that you have no morals or ethics. Its not the fault of them, its just the term has been abused. So its easier just to say, hey, I believe in the universe and all its functions.

yeah back in my athiest days it got pretty ugly , i have been called alot of names by disaproving christians, as a hair stylist in the general public, people feel they are entitled to berate you and remind you that you are a heathen and a spawn of the devill, sort of excersice you on the spot LOL ..I no longer label myself ( sheri so i know who to answer to LOL) I know you hear the storys art man from the missus *smiles*

When a disaproving christian calls you names like that Sheri, it shows their ignorance..and their ignorance is your bliss