Quite often it seems to me that "Christians" get lumped together as if they were all the same. Every time an article is posted (like the purity prom thing), the Christian bashers come out in force, and I find myself confronted with people that still bear a grudge over the crusades.
In this light, I'd like to make some observations and statements that might clarify some folks point of view or preconceived notions. Some of them are personal (meaning applying to me), and others are general.
Modern Christians are about as diverse a group as you can imagine. The days of the WASP are waning. Today Christians are all races, all mixes, and all backgrounds.
For every nut case "fundaMENTAList" as so many call them, there are probably twenty people out there with essentially Christian values quietly chuckling at the insanity generated by Purity Proms.
The point is, the bashers should pause and think about who they are bashing rather than pigeon holing people. The next Christian you bash MAY be a champion of gay-rights, stem cell research, right-to-die advocacy, or any one of a hundred causes that are traditionally "off limits" to Christians.
Many Christians see the Bible as a guide, not a literal translation. Many see the teachings of Jesus as a good way to live, and a map they can follow to better themselves. The ones that preach fire and brimstone are few and far between, but they are the ones that get the attention. Many modern Christians would share THEIR view of Christianity with you if you would but ask. And you would be surprised at how many are tolerant and kind, and believe the mistakes of the past should never be repeated, those made by religious leaders as well as others.
The Christians out there that would defend GENOCIDE, SLAVERY, THE CRUSADES and countless other horrible bits of history, both ancient and modern, are NOT the majority.
The Christians that take it upon themselves to DAMN people with HIV are NOT the majority.
The Christians who say things like "GOD HATES FAGS" are NOT the majority.
The Christians who call victims of incest and rape whores and sinners for getting an ABORTION are NOT the majority.
The Christians who believe we NEED a SECULAR government or the USA is hellbound are NOT the majority.
The Christians who say ALL women BELONG in the kitchen are NOT the majority.
The REAL majority believe Jesus had some fine ideas about how to treat his fellow man (or woman). The REAL majority believe honesty to ones self is as important to honesty toward others. The REAL majority would rather DIE than allow the LOUDER and more IGNORANT minority to cause YOU harm, or cause YOU not to be able to voice your opinions through violence or fear of harm.
Keep that in mind the next time you attack or mock a Christian. You may find a PSP for Jesus amusing, and that's fine. I'll die for your right to be amused, as would the REAL MAJORITY of Christians, and as have my friends and relatives (and probably some of yours if you bothered to ask).
Full Version: Modern View of Christianity
what exactly do you believe... just thought i would ask since you threw it out there...
Hi Eqgumby, see if all Christians were like you there wouldn't be a problem, it's those that paint non-Christians as Evilness on Earth that get people's backs up lol.
I loved your point about Jesus having fine ideas - never a truer word spoken!
I loved your point about Jesus having fine ideas - never a truer word spoken!
I have said this way too many times that...its UNFAIR to place all christians in the same boat as fundys ect...there is a BIG difference between a christian and a fundy
Ohh lemme add...its not christians that say we women are only fit for the kitchen LOL NOPE...its people like my BF grrrrrrrrrrrr the big git!!!
Ohh lemme add...its not christians that say we women are only fit for the kitchen LOL NOPE...its people like my BF grrrrrrrrrrrr the big git!!!
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Mar 20 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]1592230[/snapback]
I have said this way too many times that...its UNFAIR to place all christians in the same boat as fundys ect...there is a BIG difference between a christian and a fundy
Ohh lemme add...its not christians that say we women are only fit for the kitchen LOL NOPE...its people like my BF grrrrrrrrrrrr the big git!!!
Ohh lemme add...its not christians that say we women are only fit for the kitchen LOL NOPE...its people like my BF grrrrrrrrrrrr the big git!!!
Take it as a compliment...maybe he's implying you run an awesome house, and are a great cook! And maybe you look hot doing the dishes!
(I know someone that shimmies when she dries dishes...it makes me QUIVER).
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Mar 20 2007, 04:58 PM) [snapback]1592320[/snapback]
Take it as a compliment...maybe he's implying you run an awesome house, and are a great cook! And maybe you look hot doing the dishes! (I know someone that shimmies when she dries dishes...it makes me QUIVER).
(I know someone that shimmies when she dries dishes...it makes me QUIVER).wow the beautiful Bm is bring out the tiger in gumby LOL....
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Mar 20 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]1591843[/snapback]
Quite often it seems to me that "Christians" get lumped together as if they were all the same. Every time an article is posted (like the purity prom thing), the Christian bashers come out in force, and I find myself confronted with people that still bear a grudge over the crusades.
In this light, I'd like to make some observations and statements that might clarify some folks point of view or preconceived notions. Some of them are personal (meaning applying to me), and others are general.
Modern Christians are about as diverse a group as you can imagine. The days of the WASP are waning. Today Christians are all races, all mixes, and all backgrounds.
For every nut case "fundaMENTAList" as so many call them, there are probably twenty people out there with essentially Christian values quietly chuckling at the insanity generated by Purity Proms.
The point is, the bashers should pause and think about who they are bashing rather than pigeon holing people. The next Christian you bash MAY be a champion of gay-rights, stem cell research, right-to-die advocacy, or any one of a hundred causes that are traditionally "off limits" to Christians.
Many Christians see the Bible as a guide, not a literal translation. Many see the teachings of Jesus as a good way to live, and a map they can follow to better themselves. The ones that preach fire and brimstone are few and far between, but they are the ones that get the attention. Many modern Christians would share THEIR view of Christianity with you if you would but ask. And you would be surprised at how many are tolerant and kind, and believe the mistakes of the past should never be repeated, those made by religious leaders as well as others.
The Christians out there that would defend GENOCIDE, SLAVERY, THE CRUSADES and countless other horrible bits of history, both ancient and modern, are NOT the majority.
The Christians that take it upon themselves to DAMN people with HIV are NOT the majority.
The Christians who say things like "GOD HATES FAGS" are NOT the majority.
The Christians who call victims of incest and rape whores and sinners for getting an ABORTION are NOT the majority.
The Christians who believe we NEED a SECULAR government or the USA is hellbound are NOT the majority.
The Christians who say ALL women BELONG in the kitchen are NOT the majority.
The REAL majority believe Jesus had some fine ideas about how to treat his fellow man (or woman). The REAL majority believe honesty to ones self is as important to honesty toward others. The REAL majority would rather DIE than allow the LOUDER and more IGNORANT minority to cause YOU harm, or cause YOU not to be able to voice your opinions through violence or fear of harm.
Keep that in mind the next time you attack or mock a Christian. You may find a PSP for Jesus amusing, and that's fine. I'll die for your right to be amused, as would the REAL MAJORITY of Christians, and as have my friends and relatives (and probably some of yours if you bothered to ask).
In this light, I'd like to make some observations and statements that might clarify some folks point of view or preconceived notions. Some of them are personal (meaning applying to me), and others are general.
Modern Christians are about as diverse a group as you can imagine. The days of the WASP are waning. Today Christians are all races, all mixes, and all backgrounds.
For every nut case "fundaMENTAList" as so many call them, there are probably twenty people out there with essentially Christian values quietly chuckling at the insanity generated by Purity Proms.
The point is, the bashers should pause and think about who they are bashing rather than pigeon holing people. The next Christian you bash MAY be a champion of gay-rights, stem cell research, right-to-die advocacy, or any one of a hundred causes that are traditionally "off limits" to Christians.
Many Christians see the Bible as a guide, not a literal translation. Many see the teachings of Jesus as a good way to live, and a map they can follow to better themselves. The ones that preach fire and brimstone are few and far between, but they are the ones that get the attention. Many modern Christians would share THEIR view of Christianity with you if you would but ask. And you would be surprised at how many are tolerant and kind, and believe the mistakes of the past should never be repeated, those made by religious leaders as well as others.
The Christians out there that would defend GENOCIDE, SLAVERY, THE CRUSADES and countless other horrible bits of history, both ancient and modern, are NOT the majority.
The Christians that take it upon themselves to DAMN people with HIV are NOT the majority.
The Christians who say things like "GOD HATES FAGS" are NOT the majority.
The Christians who call victims of incest and rape whores and sinners for getting an ABORTION are NOT the majority.
The Christians who believe we NEED a SECULAR government or the USA is hellbound are NOT the majority.
The Christians who say ALL women BELONG in the kitchen are NOT the majority.
The REAL majority believe Jesus had some fine ideas about how to treat his fellow man (or woman). The REAL majority believe honesty to ones self is as important to honesty toward others. The REAL majority would rather DIE than allow the LOUDER and more IGNORANT minority to cause YOU harm, or cause YOU not to be able to voice your opinions through violence or fear of harm.
Keep that in mind the next time you attack or mock a Christian. You may find a PSP for Jesus amusing, and that's fine. I'll die for your right to be amused, as would the REAL MAJORITY of Christians, and as have my friends and relatives (and probably some of yours if you bothered to ask).
i actaully know christains as as this and really think that these sorts of christians are an inspiration...my dear freind i work with happens to be one and my ex husband also, he once said one changes from the inside out, you have to be one of them to change any of them ...i beleive this is the future for religion..if you gumby are a christiana of this caliber Kudos to you and I will be paying closer attention to you..wonderful post...
I have said it before,and I'll probably have to say it again...
I do attempt to let everyone know that I only go after the Funda-*Mental*-ists...not the everyday average Christian.I have no quarrel with the normal Christians,and I do happen to know quite a number of them and get along with them just fine.Fundies are completely different from the average Christian,and it is only towards them that I aim my animosity.
There is a problem though...sometimes the line separating the two can get a bit blurred.
Most Christians including me are not real Christians. To be a true Christian is to shower love and only love upon the whole universe. That is the message of Christ. Nothing about forming organizations or arguing over scripture and judging others because of their chosen faith.
Simply to love God with all one's being and your neighbour as yourself is all that is required. This will free you from your ego and make you realize your true nature which is the Godhead itself ("I and the Father are one"). How does one love God with all one's being and one's neighbour as oneself to realize one's actual Self???? Here is a small piece of writing of a conversation between Francois de Sales and the young Bishop of Belley:
I onced asked the Bishop of Geneva (Francois de Sales) what one must do to attain perfection. "You must love God with all your heart," he answered, "and your neighbour as yourself."
"I did not ask wherein perfection lies," I rejoined, "but how to attain it." "Charity," he said again, "that is both the means and the end, the only way by which we can reach that perfection which is, after all, but Charity itself. . . Just as the soul is the life of the body, so charity is the life of the soul."
"I know all that," I said. "But I want to know how one is to love God with all one's heart and one's neighbour as onself."
But again he answered, "We must love God with all our hearts, and our neighbour as ourselves."
"I am no further than I was," I replied. "Tell me how to aquire such love."
"The best way, the shortest and easiest way of loving God with all one's heart is to love him wholly and heartily!"
He would give no other answer. At last, however,the Bishop said. "There are many besides you who want me to tell them of methods and systems and secret ways of becoming perfect, and I can only tell them that the sole secret is a hearty love of God, and the only way of attaining that love is by loving. You learn to speak by speaking, to study by studying, to run by running, to work by working; and just so you learn to love God and man by loving. All those who think to learn in any other way deceive themselves. If you want to love God, go on loving Him more and more. Begin as a mere apprentice, and the very power of love will lead you on to become a master in the art. Those who have made most progress will continually press on, never believing themselves to have reached their end; for charity should go on increasing until we draw our last breath."
---Jean Peirre Camus
On a side note, charity, here is used in the scholastic sense of the word and not just as in "alms giving." To me this a fore mentioned piece of writing is the core or essence of Christianity. Anything short of this falls into pseudo-Christianity. True Christianity doesn't even require that you know anything about the outside life of Christ. To simply do one's best loving uncondionally God and all peoples regardless of their category.
To love for the sake of loving is the same as loving for the sake of God because God and Love are synonomous.
Simply to love God with all one's being and your neighbour as yourself is all that is required. This will free you from your ego and make you realize your true nature which is the Godhead itself ("I and the Father are one"). How does one love God with all one's being and one's neighbour as oneself to realize one's actual Self???? Here is a small piece of writing of a conversation between Francois de Sales and the young Bishop of Belley:
I onced asked the Bishop of Geneva (Francois de Sales) what one must do to attain perfection. "You must love God with all your heart," he answered, "and your neighbour as yourself.""I did not ask wherein perfection lies," I rejoined, "but how to attain it." "Charity," he said again, "that is both the means and the end, the only way by which we can reach that perfection which is, after all, but Charity itself. . . Just as the soul is the life of the body, so charity is the life of the soul."
"I know all that," I said. "But I want to know how one is to love God with all one's heart and one's neighbour as onself."
But again he answered, "We must love God with all our hearts, and our neighbour as ourselves."
"I am no further than I was," I replied. "Tell me how to aquire such love."
"The best way, the shortest and easiest way of loving God with all one's heart is to love him wholly and heartily!"
He would give no other answer. At last, however,the Bishop said. "There are many besides you who want me to tell them of methods and systems and secret ways of becoming perfect, and I can only tell them that the sole secret is a hearty love of God, and the only way of attaining that love is by loving. You learn to speak by speaking, to study by studying, to run by running, to work by working; and just so you learn to love God and man by loving. All those who think to learn in any other way deceive themselves. If you want to love God, go on loving Him more and more. Begin as a mere apprentice, and the very power of love will lead you on to become a master in the art. Those who have made most progress will continually press on, never believing themselves to have reached their end; for charity should go on increasing until we draw our last breath."
---Jean Peirre Camus
On a side note, charity, here is used in the scholastic sense of the word and not just as in "alms giving." To me this a fore mentioned piece of writing is the core or essence of Christianity. Anything short of this falls into pseudo-Christianity. True Christianity doesn't even require that you know anything about the outside life of Christ. To simply do one's best loving uncondionally God and all peoples regardless of their category.
To love for the sake of loving is the same as loving for the sake of God because God and Love are synonomous.
I think I love ya Eggumby! 
Nice quote BNW. I don't agree with all you write but this appeals to me > I summarise it as; Love yourself. Love your neighbour(anyone you have dealings with) as you love yourself. Love god and know that he loves you in a way that you cannot match but can seek to emulate. If you live your life as far as you can by these principles, there is a very good chance it will be wonderfully rich, rewarding and fun.
Note that the critical point is being able to understand what love is, and being able to love yourself, before you can know how to love others. This is the dilemma faced by the questioner of the bishop of geneva. If you do not understand love, and cannot love your self, his message is meaningless.
Note that the critical point is being able to understand what love is, and being able to love yourself, before you can know how to love others. This is the dilemma faced by the questioner of the bishop of geneva. If you do not understand love, and cannot love your self, his message is meaningless.
pssht... I hate everyone equaly.. reguardless. X)
Yeah. I agree Mr walker, if one cannot love oneself how can you love anyone or anything else?
Also eggumby, very courageous of you to put up this post. Good to see that you see past the Christian "label".
Also eggumby, very courageous of you to put up this post. Good to see that you see past the Christian "label".
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Mar 20 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]1592118[/snapback]
what exactly do you believe... just thought i would ask since you threw it out there...
I thought about your question for quite a while actually. And to be honest, I don't think that's important here, and if anything would detract from the conversations and debates that go on here. So, I'll decline to answer in any specific manner to avoid being pigeon holed.
Read a few of my gazillion posts, and you'll get a good idea of where I stand on a lot of things.
QUOTE(Wolf MacCanine @ Mar 21 2007, 12:00 AM) [snapback]1592712[/snapback]
I have said it before,and I'll probably have to say it again...
I do attempt to let everyone know that I only go after the Funda-*Mental*-ists...not the everyday average Christian.I have no quarrel with the normal Christians,and I do happen to know quite a number of them and get along with them just fine.Fundies are completely different from the average Christian,and it is only towards them that I aim my animosity.
There is a problem though...sometimes the line separating the two can get a bit blurred.
I do attempt to let everyone know that I only go after the Funda-*Mental*-ists...not the everyday average Christian.I have no quarrel with the normal Christians,and I do happen to know quite a number of them and get along with them just fine.Fundies are completely different from the average Christian,and it is only towards them that I aim my animosity.
There is a problem though...sometimes the line separating the two can get a bit blurred.
Here is a perfect example of the problem I have.
Who are you to go "after" any one? Who are you to decide who is an "everyday average Christian"? Your animosity and "going after" someone is no worse than someone going after abortionists, homosexuals, etc. You have no more right to "go after" any one than they have the right to try to force their religion or religious beliefs on you!
This is the anger, the rage, the FEAR that just maddens me!
Say a bunch of "Christians" have an anti abortion rally...say they have signs, and they sing, and they pray, the usual. Assume that they cause no trouble for any one in particular. They want to spread the word that THEY feel abortion is something Jesus would not like, and that their are alternatives. They are not blocking access or anything illegal. Now, say that ONE jackass or a group of three cause a scene, get in someones face...now it's an extremist mess that the media crawls all over. Now imagine the people who caused the scene are NOT EVEN WITH THE ORIGINAL GROUP. Even better, the ARE NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS!
It happens. It's a tactic used to promote radical liberal agendas, and keep people with ANY religious background out of the mainstream. Crazy isn't it?
Like I said earlier, for every "fundy" out there, you will find a multitude of good hearted Christians, most of whom hide for fear of being LABELED a "fundy".
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Mar 20 2007, 11:58 PM) [snapback]1592230[/snapback]
I have said this way too many times that...its UNFAIR to place all christians in the same boat as fundys ect...there is a BIG difference between a christian and a fundy
Ohh lemme add...its not christians that say we women are only fit for the kitchen LOL NOPE...its people like my BF grrrrrrrrrrrr the big git!!!
Ohh lemme add...its not christians that say we women are only fit for the kitchen LOL NOPE...its people like my BF grrrrrrrrrrrr the big git!!!
lol refuse to make him one more cuppa until he takes that back and make sure you get it in writing too!
Your example is interesting Eggumby.
My problem with protests such as the one you described above goes across the board, and I'd call anyone that protests in the manner that anti-abortionists do (they're so graphic and aggressive) a fundy. I wouldn't much care if they were Christian or not. My idea of a fundy is anyone that uses a platform and a protest to needlessly inflame or insight violence.
This is why I have such a hard time with some Christian fundamentalist leaders. They are manipulating their followers to do some awfully violent things on occsasion, or implanting a suggestion in their heads that it's ok to hate. I just think there are better and more effective ways to get your point across about a subject. When people use violence or words of hate that's when I lable them fundamentalists.
My problem with protests such as the one you described above goes across the board, and I'd call anyone that protests in the manner that anti-abortionists do (they're so graphic and aggressive) a fundy. I wouldn't much care if they were Christian or not. My idea of a fundy is anyone that uses a platform and a protest to needlessly inflame or insight violence.
This is why I have such a hard time with some Christian fundamentalist leaders. They are manipulating their followers to do some awfully violent things on occsasion, or implanting a suggestion in their heads that it's ok to hate. I just think there are better and more effective ways to get your point across about a subject. When people use violence or words of hate that's when I lable them fundamentalists.
QUOTE(MissMelsWell @ Mar 21 2007, 04:02 PM) [snapback]1593235[/snapback]
Your example is interesting Eggumby.
My problem with protests such as the one you described above goes across the board, and I'd call anyone that protests in the manner that anti-abortionists do (they're so graphic and aggressive) a fundy. I wouldn't much care if they were Christian or not. My idea of a fundy is anyone that uses a platform and a protest to needlessly inflame or insight violence.
This is why I have such a hard time with some Christian fundamentalist leaders. They are manipulating their followers to do some awfully violent things on occsasion, or implanting a suggestion in their heads that it's ok to hate. I just think there are better and more effective ways to get your point across about a subject. When people use violence or words of hate that's when I lable them fundamentalists.
My problem with protests such as the one you described above goes across the board, and I'd call anyone that protests in the manner that anti-abortionists do (they're so graphic and aggressive) a fundy. I wouldn't much care if they were Christian or not. My idea of a fundy is anyone that uses a platform and a protest to needlessly inflame or insight violence.
This is why I have such a hard time with some Christian fundamentalist leaders. They are manipulating their followers to do some awfully violent things on occsasion, or implanting a suggestion in their heads that it's ok to hate. I just think there are better and more effective ways to get your point across about a subject. When people use violence or words of hate that's when I lable them fundamentalists.
I can agree with you on fundamentalists. But I can honestly say that christian fundamentalists upset me the most.
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Mar 21 2007, 07:50 AM) [snapback]1592989[/snapback]
Here is a perfect example of the problem I have.
Who are you to go "after" any one? Who are you to decide who is an "everyday average Christian"? Your animosity and "going after" someone is no worse than someone going after abortionists, homosexuals, etc. You have no more right to "go after" any one than they have the right to try to force their religion or religious beliefs on you!
This is the anger, the rage, the FEAR that just maddens me!
Say a bunch of "Christians" have an anti abortion rally...say they have signs, and they sing, and they pray, the usual. Assume that they cause no trouble for any one in particular. They want to spread the word that THEY feel abortion is something Jesus would not like, and that their are alternatives. They are not blocking access or anything illegal. Now, say that ONE jackass or a group of three cause a scene, get in someones face...now it's an extremist mess that the media crawls all over. Now imagine the people who caused the scene are NOT EVEN WITH THE ORIGINAL GROUP. Even better, the ARE NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS!
It happens. It's a tactic used to promote radical liberal agendas, and keep people with ANY religious background out of the mainstream. Crazy isn't it?
Like I said earlier, for every "fundy" out there, you will find a multitude of good hearted Christians, most of whom hide for fear of being LABELED a "fundy".
Who are you to go "after" any one? Who are you to decide who is an "everyday average Christian"? Your animosity and "going after" someone is no worse than someone going after abortionists, homosexuals, etc. You have no more right to "go after" any one than they have the right to try to force their religion or religious beliefs on you!
This is the anger, the rage, the FEAR that just maddens me!
Say a bunch of "Christians" have an anti abortion rally...say they have signs, and they sing, and they pray, the usual. Assume that they cause no trouble for any one in particular. They want to spread the word that THEY feel abortion is something Jesus would not like, and that their are alternatives. They are not blocking access or anything illegal. Now, say that ONE jackass or a group of three cause a scene, get in someones face...now it's an extremist mess that the media crawls all over. Now imagine the people who caused the scene are NOT EVEN WITH THE ORIGINAL GROUP. Even better, the ARE NOT EVEN CHRISTIANS!
It happens. It's a tactic used to promote radical liberal agendas, and keep people with ANY religious background out of the mainstream. Crazy isn't it?
Like I said earlier, for every "fundy" out there, you will find a multitude of good hearted Christians, most of whom hide for fear of being LABELED a "fundy".
QUOTE
It's a tactic used to promote radical liberal agendas
Hmmm...isn't blaming everything on a "Liberal" agenda the same as blaming the Christians for what the Fundies do? I've seen you do this in many posts.
QUOTE
This is the anger, the rage, the FEAR that just maddens me!
There is no fear involved in my decision to bash Fundies.
We are all equal across the board.None of us are better than another,even in the realms of politics or religion.I have as much right to state my opinion on Fundies (which is how I "bash" them) as they do to express their opinions on a variety of issues like gays,abortion...etc.I also have as much right to state my opinion on them as you do to blame "Liberals" for everything bad that you see going on in the world.
Sometimes one must...to use an old quote..."fight fire with fire".I see the fire of the Fundies getting out of control,therefore I will use whatever fire I can muster to help stem the tide and keep things more balanced.It's no different from what some others do here in the widely varied subjects being discussed.
...
QUOTE(MissMelsWell @ Mar 21 2007, 11:02 AM) [snapback]1593235[/snapback]
This is why I have such a hard time with some Christian fundamentalist leaders. They are manipulating their followers to do some awfully violent things on occsasion, or implanting a suggestion in their heads that it's ok to hate. I just think there are better and more effective ways to get your point across about a subject.
Exactly.
If they weren't so overzealous in their methods...I wouldn't even bother with them.
QUOTE(Wolf MacCanine @ Mar 21 2007, 12:54 PM) [snapback]1593394[/snapback]
Hmmm...isn't blaming everything on a "Liberal" agenda the same as blaming the Christians for what the Fundies do? I've seen you do this in many posts.There is no fear involved in my decision to bash Fundies.
We are all equal across the board.None of us are better than another,even in the realms of politics or religion.I have as much right to state my opinion on Fundies (which is how I "bash" them) as they do to express their opinions on a variety of issues like gays,abortion...etc.I also have as much right to state my opinion on them as you do to blame "Liberals" for everything bad that you see going on in the world.
Sometimes one must...to use an old quote..."fight fire with fire".I see the fire of the Fundies getting out of control,therefore I will use whatever fire I can muster to help stem the tide and keep things more balanced.It's no different from what some others do here in the widely varied subjects being discussed.
...
Exactly.
If they weren't so overzealous in their methods...I wouldn't even bother with them.
We are all equal across the board.None of us are better than another,even in the realms of politics or religion.I have as much right to state my opinion on Fundies (which is how I "bash" them) as they do to express their opinions on a variety of issues like gays,abortion...etc.I also have as much right to state my opinion on them as you do to blame "Liberals" for everything bad that you see going on in the world.
Sometimes one must...to use an old quote..."fight fire with fire".I see the fire of the Fundies getting out of control,therefore I will use whatever fire I can muster to help stem the tide and keep things more balanced.It's no different from what some others do here in the widely varied subjects being discussed.
...
Exactly.
If they weren't so overzealous in their methods...I wouldn't even bother with them.
QUOTE
I've seen you do this in many posts
Not sure what posts you are referring to, but I DO have a problem with MANY liberal agendas, as well as people telling me what I should or should not find acceptable behavior. Are you a liberal that DEMANDS that I teach my children that homosexuality is a perfectly acceptable sexual option at school?
Maybe you caught me on a few threads that just SCREAMED over zealous liberal, and I raised the BS flag. I do the same to conservatives BTW.
QUOTE(hairston630 @ Mar 21 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]1593241[/snapback]
I can agree with you on fundamentalists. But I can honestly say that christian fundamentalists upset me the most.
Try some Islamic fundamentalists on for size. You'll wet yourself.
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Mar 21 2007, 05:18 PM) [snapback]1593735[/snapback]
Not sure what posts you are referring to, but I DO have a problem with MANY liberal agendas, as well as people telling me what I should or should not find acceptable behavior. Are you a liberal that DEMANDS that I teach my children that homosexuality is a perfectly acceptable sexual option at school?
Maybe you caught me on a few threads that just SCREAMED over zealous liberal, and I raised the BS flag. I do the same to conservatives BTW.
Maybe you caught me on a few threads that just SCREAMED over zealous liberal, and I raised the BS flag. I do the same to conservatives BTW.
The problem is...do you really know if something truly *is* a liberal agenda...or just because it appears to be one to you (by being out of the norm you're used to),does that really make it a liberal agenda? It all boils down to personal opinion,which is all each of us has.Whereas you may see something as a liberal agenda,I see some things as a Funda-*Mental*-ist plot to institute their beliefs upon the whole country or the world.It's all personal opinion based upon what we see and experience.
I am not a liberal...nor am I a conservative.I'm not even a moderate.I try to keep an open mind on all things...and think rationally and logically.I also try to look at things from every perspective possible...which is why I enjoy many of the discussions here on UM,because it enables me to hear other people's opinions and experiences regarding many subjects.
But,my main point of quoting you was to show that what you do regarding "liberal agendas" is the same as I do in regards to Fundies.Neither of us can claim the high ground,nor can anyone else on this forum.We are all equal...and each of us has our idiosyncrasies.None of us are perfect by any means.We all have our biases...some of mine happen to be against Fundies,just as some of yours are against Liberals.
So...all we can really do is agree to disagree on certain points of discussion and leave it at that.
QUOTE(Wolf MacCanine @ Mar 21 2007, 09:49 PM) [snapback]1594107[/snapback]
The problem is...do you really know if something truly *is* a liberal agenda...or just because it appears to be one to you (by being out of the norm you're used to),does that really make it a liberal agenda? It all boils down to personal opinion,which is all each of us has.Whereas you may see something as a liberal agenda,I see some things as a Funda-*Mental*-ist plot to institute their beliefs upon the whole country or the world.It's all personal opinion based upon what we see and experience.
I am not a liberal...nor am I a conservative.I'm not even a moderate.I try to keep an open mind on all things...and think rationally and logically.I also try to look at things from every perspective possible...which is why I enjoy many of the discussions here on UM,because it enables me to hear other people's opinions and experiences regarding many subjects.
But,my main point of quoting you was to show that what you do regarding "liberal agendas" is the same as I do in regards to Fundies.Neither of us can claim the high ground,nor can anyone else on this forum.We are all equal...and each of us has our idiosyncrasies.None of us are perfect by any means.We all have our biases...some of mine happen to be against Fundies,just as some of yours are against Liberals.
So...all we can really do is agree to disagree on certain points of discussion and leave it at that.
I am not a liberal...nor am I a conservative.I'm not even a moderate.I try to keep an open mind on all things...and think rationally and logically.I also try to look at things from every perspective possible...which is why I enjoy many of the discussions here on UM,because it enables me to hear other people's opinions and experiences regarding many subjects.
But,my main point of quoting you was to show that what you do regarding "liberal agendas" is the same as I do in regards to Fundies.Neither of us can claim the high ground,nor can anyone else on this forum.We are all equal...and each of us has our idiosyncrasies.None of us are perfect by any means.We all have our biases...some of mine happen to be against Fundies,just as some of yours are against Liberals.
So...all we can really do is agree to disagree on certain points of discussion and leave it at that.
I guess that means it's a matter of perspective. Maybe we can find common ground in that we feel fundementalist ANYTHING is likely a bad thing, and no ones opinion should be dismissed outright or without some level of consideration or rationalization. Make sense to you? ( I hope so, you sound frighteningly like me in many respects ). It would be like debating myself...
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Mar 21 2007, 11:22 PM) [snapback]1594209[/snapback]
I guess that means it's a matter of perspective. Maybe we can find common ground in that we feel fundementalist ANYTHING is likely a bad thing, and no ones opinion should be dismissed outright or without some level of consideration or rationalization. Make sense to you? ( I hope so, you sound frighteningly like me in many respects ). It would be like debating myself...
That's what I was getting at.It's all according to one's perspective.
As for the last bit of your post...I wouldn't know about that...I happen to be quite eccentric.
QUOTE(Wolf MacCanine @ Mar 22 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]1594949[/snapback]
That's what I was getting at.It's all according to one's perspective.
As for the last bit of your post...I wouldn't know about that...I happen to be quite eccentric.
As for the last bit of your post...I wouldn't know about that...I happen to be quite eccentric.
I've been referred to as both eclectic and eccentric...kind of a weird combo, but I try to embrace it.
I love this thread... or at least the opening post. 
Its something that always bothers me on this board about some people's attitudes toward Christianity. I was raised Christian and know an awful lot of Christians still. Not one of them is fundamentalist in the slightest. It makes me sad that other's experiences have all been so negative and thus have tainted their view of Christians so much that they end up prejudiced.
Its something that always bothers me on this board about some people's attitudes toward Christianity. I was raised Christian and know an awful lot of Christians still. Not one of them is fundamentalist in the slightest. It makes me sad that other's experiences have all been so negative and thus have tainted their view of Christians so much that they end up prejudiced.
QUOTE(eqgumby @ Mar 22 2007, 01:24 PM) [snapback]1594971[/snapback]
I've been referred to as both eclectic and eccentric...kind of a weird combo, but I try to embrace it.
Same here...but I don't see it as a weird combo.I see it as me being me.
con agendas and stupid quotes
"Know why I am extremely conservative? Because I go by what the Bible says, not by what my mind says. My Carnal mind."
Sypher2k3, Christianity.com Forums [Comments (3)] [2004-Jun-01]
-"enough is enough. it's time to slaughter every muslim man, woman, and child on the planet. burn their eyes out with hot pokers, and send their severed heads back to syria, arabia, and every other muslim stink hole in the world."
BarryG, Free Conservatives [Comments (11)] [2005-Jul-07]
-"[Replying to "Bush is more an example of a man with a gun in one hand and the Bible in the other."]
And the downside here is? When god drives your heart the gun can't be missused. Do you want the leader of the mightiest army to be driven by greed, power or lust,(not mentioning any names) or any other un-godly acts?"
Billnew, Christian Forums [Comments (0)] [2004-May-01]
-"[After a provision to prosecute companies that rip off the US government in Iraq is surreptitiously removed by Republicans]
why would we fight a war and then not get what benefits we could for it? We are going to make our 200 billion dollars back 10 times over, whats wrong with that? It was American blood and sweat, would the democrats feel better if those cheese eating surrender monkeys in Europe made the money off of that?"
alonesoldier, Christian Forums [Comments (0)] [2003-Nov-01]
-"['If you live in Virginia then you probably know that the General Assembly has passed the Anti-Gay Marriage bill. The issue will make it to the ballots in November, where Virginians can finally remove gay marriage once and for all! Please help us stand united in this war against homosexuality. As Republicans, we must all stand together!']
And remember; just shoot them in the head...they dont go down otherwise. And if you get bit, you can kiss your being straight away."
Brian Michael C, Myspace [Comments (0)] [2006-Jan-28]
-"[After someone says they would beat a guy into a coma for wearing blush or eyeliner]
Don't settle for a coma, be a real republican and beat him to death. Mercy is for democrats"
Just Joe, Myspace [Comments (54)] [2006-Jun-03]
"[Note: this guy is a right-wing fundie]
Republicans are Christian and to believe there is a seperation between Chruch and State is to believe that gravity exist."
Tanner, MySpace [Comments (30)] [2006-Jun-07]
-"But God don't talk in Arabic. He talks in a REAL language, namely, English. It's true that back in them days He translated that to some other language after Speaking it in English, but after all, it's His universe and He can do what He doggone well wants to do."
DesertFox, Free Conservatives [Comments (97)] [2006-Dec-13]
-"[on the murder of John Lennon]
I know I'm "far out" but he was an anti-American commie. Lennon needed killin'. He was single-handedly hurting America's effort in Vietnam and the world is better off without his politics."
Peachdiane, Free Conservatives [Comments (20)] [2005-Dec-12]
-"[Would you rather have a not so bright Christian leading the country, or a smart atheist?]
I'll go with the not so smart Christian.
Atheist have no solid moral base to stand on - they change their idea's of what is morally permissible with science or politics. This is due to a lack of objective truth (God) and no sense of ultimate justice for our wrong doings. No matter how smart the world thinks an atheist is, remember he is in reality, insane."
Geocajun, ChristianForums [Comments (13)] [2006-Apr-29]
-
http://www.fstdt.com/
"Know why I am extremely conservative? Because I go by what the Bible says, not by what my mind says. My Carnal mind."
Sypher2k3, Christianity.com Forums [Comments (3)] [2004-Jun-01]
-"enough is enough. it's time to slaughter every muslim man, woman, and child on the planet. burn their eyes out with hot pokers, and send their severed heads back to syria, arabia, and every other muslim stink hole in the world."
BarryG, Free Conservatives [Comments (11)] [2005-Jul-07]
-"[Replying to "Bush is more an example of a man with a gun in one hand and the Bible in the other."]
And the downside here is? When god drives your heart the gun can't be missused. Do you want the leader of the mightiest army to be driven by greed, power or lust,(not mentioning any names) or any other un-godly acts?"
Billnew, Christian Forums [Comments (0)] [2004-May-01]
-"[After a provision to prosecute companies that rip off the US government in Iraq is surreptitiously removed by Republicans]
why would we fight a war and then not get what benefits we could for it? We are going to make our 200 billion dollars back 10 times over, whats wrong with that? It was American blood and sweat, would the democrats feel better if those cheese eating surrender monkeys in Europe made the money off of that?"
alonesoldier, Christian Forums [Comments (0)] [2003-Nov-01]
-"['If you live in Virginia then you probably know that the General Assembly has passed the Anti-Gay Marriage bill. The issue will make it to the ballots in November, where Virginians can finally remove gay marriage once and for all! Please help us stand united in this war against homosexuality. As Republicans, we must all stand together!']
And remember; just shoot them in the head...they dont go down otherwise. And if you get bit, you can kiss your being straight away."
Brian Michael C, Myspace [Comments (0)] [2006-Jan-28]
-"[After someone says they would beat a guy into a coma for wearing blush or eyeliner]
Don't settle for a coma, be a real republican and beat him to death. Mercy is for democrats"
Just Joe, Myspace [Comments (54)] [2006-Jun-03]
"[Note: this guy is a right-wing fundie]
Republicans are Christian and to believe there is a seperation between Chruch and State is to believe that gravity exist."
Tanner, MySpace [Comments (30)] [2006-Jun-07]
-"But God don't talk in Arabic. He talks in a REAL language, namely, English. It's true that back in them days He translated that to some other language after Speaking it in English, but after all, it's His universe and He can do what He doggone well wants to do."
DesertFox, Free Conservatives [Comments (97)] [2006-Dec-13]
-"[on the murder of John Lennon]
I know I'm "far out" but he was an anti-American commie. Lennon needed killin'. He was single-handedly hurting America's effort in Vietnam and the world is better off without his politics."
Peachdiane, Free Conservatives [Comments (20)] [2005-Dec-12]
-"[Would you rather have a not so bright Christian leading the country, or a smart atheist?]
I'll go with the not so smart Christian.
Atheist have no solid moral base to stand on - they change their idea's of what is morally permissible with science or politics. This is due to a lack of objective truth (God) and no sense of ultimate justice for our wrong doings. No matter how smart the world thinks an atheist is, remember he is in reality, insane."
Geocajun, ChristianForums [Comments (13)] [2006-Apr-29]
-
http://www.fstdt.com/
Bravo! Great post eqgumby.
I am also someone who notices this "going after" the Christians and beating them over the head with the crimes of the Crusades.
That's why I say I admire faith. I loathe anyone who feels the need to aggressively attack someone for what they think they mean.
Several times on here for example thaphantum has been attacked because people know what "he's trying to do"
We all do it from time to time however I tend to notice that when a Christian basher is told that he or she is doing such a thing, he or she will justify it as some sort of acceptable right to attack the person based on the history of the religion.
I am also someone who notices this "going after" the Christians and beating them over the head with the crimes of the Crusades.
That's why I say I admire faith. I loathe anyone who feels the need to aggressively attack someone for what they think they mean.
Several times on here for example thaphantum has been attacked because people know what "he's trying to do"
We all do it from time to time however I tend to notice that when a Christian basher is told that he or she is doing such a thing, he or she will justify it as some sort of acceptable right to attack the person based on the history of the religion.
No matter where you go in life...you will get the rough with the smooth
In this thread we speak about view of christians..therfore the example im about to give, is about the odd one of the christian bunch...heck we all have the odd one from a group LOL but I am going with the christian as this thread is about them...
See a lot of people will think...if a man or a woman has the lable - christian on them...this must mean they are the be all and such great people
Lifes not like this at all
That same christian...can be every bit as insulting to non believers..winding them all up...looking down his/her nose at them...telling them they are going to burn ha ha h <--with the snide laugh.....
Now dont tell me there are no christians like this...hey im not going to suck up to anyone and say --- "ohh nooo all christians are great decent people, thats not fair to say the odd one can be a meanie no fair no fair <--cuz saying that is pure bull and we all know it
After all that mean bully of a christian...that would post on a forum, spout abuse...will have others back him/her up (normally fellow christians) but not many will back him or her up...then they feel that just because they have the christian tag on them...this must make it ok to throw nothing but abuse at non believers...for simply not believing in his/her God
Now I dont think it would be fair for anyone to say..."but no such christian exists" they exist...just as much as the arrogant and rude atheist does...trust me they are every bit as human as the rest of us...the lable to me dont mean its a free exess all ares pass to show how you too can bash like crazy, like some VIP pass...I used to think a few wore these lol
NOW - that doesnt mean all chrsitans are this way...far from it..I just made an example of a few that are and can be...............im just sick and tired of the odd one or two sitting and playing the violin for these kind of ignorant christians...claiming that atheists are only out to get the poor christian....when in the back of their heads they know fine well its not always like that...and they KNOW FINE WELL..that both sides are just as bad..those that do this nonsense, are guilty of a lot of abuse dished out themselves
I could say the EXACT same about atheists and other faiths or non faiths ...ohh yea...those that use their beliefs as a shield for abuse
On a scale from 1 - 10...Id dare say..a lot would agree with me...
I only happen to use the christian as an example...cuz lets face it.........this thread happens to be about christans...but I am done reading BAISED threads that claim its only the christians that get picked on...people that claim this...dont care for both sides only care for one side
I loath that behavior
AND...what gives?? When an atheist/nonchristian...expresses his or her opinion...stating what they believe is right to them...and just so happen to disagree with a christians post............................then the sec they do...some joker will come in...and bash that atheist/non christians for saying what they believe in...it just so happens..THAT the non christian/atheist..doesnt agree with a certain post from a christian...but they are STILL giving their opinion on how they may see it ect...............in comes the joker ranting on behalf of another christan...making it out as though...............the christain are the ONLY ones, that are allowed to hold an opinion...express what they believe is true....but heavens forbid if anyone else disagree's...they are seen as atheists, that shouldnt have a belief in anything (not always spiritual..I do mean anything).......therfore...that non christian/non believer...is not allowed to take a stand to say what they feel is right to them...DONT DO IT..cuz if you do...you are bash....ing according to the joker....you dont see it as bashing...you see it in the same way the christian see's it...sharing what you believe may be true...
In this thread we speak about view of christians..therfore the example im about to give, is about the odd one of the christian bunch...heck we all have the odd one from a group LOL but I am going with the christian as this thread is about them...
See a lot of people will think...if a man or a woman has the lable - christian on them...this must mean they are the be all and such great people
Lifes not like this at all
That same christian...can be every bit as insulting to non believers..winding them all up...looking down his/her nose at them...telling them they are going to burn ha ha h <--with the snide laugh.....
Now dont tell me there are no christians like this...hey im not going to suck up to anyone and say --- "ohh nooo all christians are great decent people, thats not fair to say the odd one can be a meanie no fair no fair <--cuz saying that is pure bull and we all know it
After all that mean bully of a christian...that would post on a forum, spout abuse...will have others back him/her up (normally fellow christians) but not many will back him or her up...then they feel that just because they have the christian tag on them...this must make it ok to throw nothing but abuse at non believers...for simply not believing in his/her God
Now I dont think it would be fair for anyone to say..."but no such christian exists" they exist...just as much as the arrogant and rude atheist does...trust me they are every bit as human as the rest of us...the lable to me dont mean its a free exess all ares pass to show how you too can bash like crazy, like some VIP pass...I used to think a few wore these lol
NOW - that doesnt mean all chrsitans are this way...far from it..I just made an example of a few that are and can be...............im just sick and tired of the odd one or two sitting and playing the violin for these kind of ignorant christians...claiming that atheists are only out to get the poor christian....when in the back of their heads they know fine well its not always like that...and they KNOW FINE WELL..that both sides are just as bad..those that do this nonsense, are guilty of a lot of abuse dished out themselves
I could say the EXACT same about atheists and other faiths or non faiths ...ohh yea...those that use their beliefs as a shield for abuse
On a scale from 1 - 10...Id dare say..a lot would agree with me...
I only happen to use the christian as an example...cuz lets face it.........this thread happens to be about christans...but I am done reading BAISED threads that claim its only the christians that get picked on...people that claim this...dont care for both sides only care for one side
I loath that behavior
AND...what gives?? When an atheist/nonchristian...expresses his or her opinion...stating what they believe is right to them...and just so happen to disagree with a christians post............................then the sec they do...some joker will come in...and bash that atheist/non christians for saying what they believe in...it just so happens..THAT the non christian/atheist..doesnt agree with a certain post from a christian...but they are STILL giving their opinion on how they may see it ect...............in comes the joker ranting on behalf of another christan...making it out as though...............the christain are the ONLY ones, that are allowed to hold an opinion...express what they believe is true....but heavens forbid if anyone else disagree's...they are seen as atheists, that shouldnt have a belief in anything (not always spiritual..I do mean anything).......therfore...that non christian/non believer...is not allowed to take a stand to say what they feel is right to them...DONT DO IT..cuz if you do...you are bash....ing according to the joker....you dont see it as bashing...you see it in the same way the christian see's it...sharing what you believe may be true...
I think the problem with many "modern" or "liberal" Christians is that they try to style the Christian faith to conform to secular society rather than truly following the teachings of Christ, which will invariably lead to ridicule, persecution, etc.
QUOTE(KGS3333 @ Mar 24 2007, 11:32 PM) [snapback]1598915[/snapback]
I think the problem with many "modern" or "liberal" Christians is that they try to style the Christian faith to conform to secular society rather than truly following the teachings of Christ, which will invariably lead to ridicule, persecution, etc.
I'm not sure I understand your post. Care to clarify?
I fail to see what is so difficult to understand.
QUOTE(KGS3333 @ Mar 25 2007, 12:58 AM) [snapback]1598953[/snapback]
I fail to see what is so difficult to understand.
Are you implying that liberal Christians are setting themselves up for ridicule and persecution?
QUOTE(KGS3333 @ Mar 25 2007, 08:58 AM) [snapback]1598953[/snapback]
I fail to see what is so difficult to understand.
Gee how hard is it for you just to explain it for her...?? She only asked
QUOTE(MissMelsWell @ Mar 25 2007, 08:38 AM) [snapback]1598973[/snapback]
Are you implying that liberal Christians are setting themselves up for ridicule and persecution?
No, I'm stating that "liberal" Christians are attempting to style Christianity to conform to the expectations of modern secular society in an effort not to offend or upset non-believers, thus minimizing or negating the possibility of being persecuted. What do you think about Luke 6:22 and Matthew 5:11-12?
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Mar 25 2007, 03:45 PM) [snapback]1599218[/snapback]
Gee how hard is it for you just to explain it for her...?? She only asked
Well, to be honest, I thought it was fairly clear and straightforward.
What do you consider to be a liberal Christian? Do you have any specific definition or description?
A liberal Christian is a person that identifies themself as such.
QUOTE(KGS3333 @ Mar 25 2007, 02:56 PM) [snapback]1599412[/snapback]
No, I'm stating that "liberal" Christians are attempting to style Christianity to conform to the expectations of modern secular society in an effort not to offend or upset non-believers, thus minimizing or negating the possibility of being persecuted. What do you think about Luke 6:22 and Matthew 5:11-12?
Well if we let "true" christians get their way, adulterers would be stoned, so would non-believers and such. We're a bit more civilized than that (or atleast, I'd hope that most of us are).
QUOTE(KGS3333 @ Mar 25 2007, 05:54 PM) [snapback]1599753[/snapback]
A liberal Christian is a person that identifies themself as such.
Thanks, that didn't answer the question.
sheeesh.
QUOTE(Dr. Strangelove @ Mar 26 2007, 02:05 PM) [snapback]1600376[/snapback]
Well if we let "true" christians get their way, adulterers would be stoned, so would non-believers and such. We're a bit more civilized than that (or atleast, I'd hope that most of us are).
Wow how misinformed......
QUOTE(hairston630 @ Mar 26 2007, 04:06 PM) [snapback]1600528[/snapback]
Wow how misinformed......
very difficult talking to a closed belief....huh?
randomhit10
QUOTE(KGS3333 @ Mar 25 2007, 01:32 AM) [snapback]1598915[/snapback]
I think the problem with many "modern" or "liberal" Christians is that they try to style the Christian faith to conform to secular society rather than truly following the teachings of Christ, which will invariably lead to ridicule, persecution, etc.
I think I get what KG is saying. It's hard to be "Christian" and not follow the New Testament or the teachings of Christ pretty closely, which is extremely tricky in our primarily secular (or wannabe secular) society. It's a thin line, or a slippery slope, however you want to say it. How can you sit in church and listen to a pastor talk about following one rule and ignoring another? Stoning an adulterer, "an eye for an eye", and so many other things in the bible (old and new testament) are just not feasible in the society we live in (most of us at least). Compromise is usually a good thing, but in the case of religion that same compromise can easily be construed as acceptance of sin.
Did I get it KG?
QUOTE(hairston630 @ Mar 26 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]1600528[/snapback]
Wow how misinformed......
I'm talking about christians who take the bible as litteraly as possible. In which case, that is what they would be doing.
I get it.
Its like when divorce is now acceptable because its a reflection of modern times. Then if you begin to say "well the world has changed" and you start selectively reading the bible. You live in sin because its no big deal to have children out of wedlock and such things. You "get creative" with your God theories and then suddenly you aren't living according to Christian doctrine and are acting like a worldly person.
What do you know? If you lay down with dogs you are going to get fleas.
I think the Amish are one of the few that stuck with it (might be wrong about that) and they aren't persecuted. They are sittting ducks as they school shooting reminded us all. But in the end people leave them to their beliefs and tend to respect them.
Its like when divorce is now acceptable because its a reflection of modern times. Then if you begin to say "well the world has changed" and you start selectively reading the bible. You live in sin because its no big deal to have children out of wedlock and such things. You "get creative" with your God theories and then suddenly you aren't living according to Christian doctrine and are acting like a worldly person.
What do you know? If you lay down with dogs you are going to get fleas.
I think the Amish are one of the few that stuck with it (might be wrong about that) and they aren't persecuted. They are sittting ducks as they school shooting reminded us all. But in the end people leave them to their beliefs and tend to respect them.
Hmmm, I have a passing interest in the Anabaptists, mainly because the liberal Mennonites (Amish and Mennonites were at one time one denomination) have some similar beliefs to my own Quaker beliefs. If I were unable to attend a Friends Meeting, I would likely find myself at a liberal Mennonite Meeting House (there are a few different types of Mennonites).
The Anabaptists, like so many others ended up in the USA and Canada because they were persecuted in Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries.
The Anabaptists are able to stick to their beliefs because they are extremely insular. While they do pay Federal Income taxes, they are exempt from paying Social Security tax because they view it as a type of insurance and have their own retirement and financial aid means. I believe they are the only groups excuded from paying into Social Security. They are also exempt from any and all military service. I cannot think of another group that is afforded any of these exemptions.
Are they the most Christian? That's debatable. They have some very strong Christian beliefs (some are quite strange, they believe in "twice baptism" among other off beat practices), but those beliefs do not extend out beyond their own sect. It's fairly rare for the Amish to take converts from outside of their communities.
I have resepct for the Anabaptists and many of their beliefs even though they vary quite a bit from my own, but you can't deny that lifelong Anabaptists hold their own practice very closely--they are devout to Christianity as they know it, but I don't know that I agree that they are more or less Christian than some others. It's a tough call. Like Quakers, they are considered Protestant.
I think Anabaptists aren't persecuted if only because they are so insular, that people view them as an oddity and since they aren't trying to convert anyone, and believe in ultimate passifism, people leave them alone. They aren't a threat to anyone but their own (and there are arguments that there are abuse problems within their communities, but where isn't abuse not a problem?)
The Anabaptists, like so many others ended up in the USA and Canada because they were persecuted in Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries.
The Anabaptists are able to stick to their beliefs because they are extremely insular. While they do pay Federal Income taxes, they are exempt from paying Social Security tax because they view it as a type of insurance and have their own retirement and financial aid means. I believe they are the only groups excuded from paying into Social Security. They are also exempt from any and all military service. I cannot think of another group that is afforded any of these exemptions.
Are they the most Christian? That's debatable. They have some very strong Christian beliefs (some are quite strange, they believe in "twice baptism" among other off beat practices), but those beliefs do not extend out beyond their own sect. It's fairly rare for the Amish to take converts from outside of their communities.
I have resepct for the Anabaptists and many of their beliefs even though they vary quite a bit from my own, but you can't deny that lifelong Anabaptists hold their own practice very closely--they are devout to Christianity as they know it, but I don't know that I agree that they are more or less Christian than some others. It's a tough call. Like Quakers, they are considered Protestant.
I think Anabaptists aren't persecuted if only because they are so insular, that people view them as an oddity and since they aren't trying to convert anyone, and believe in ultimate passifism, people leave them alone. They aren't a threat to anyone but their own (and there are arguments that there are abuse problems within their communities, but where isn't abuse not a problem?)
QUOTE(Dr. Strangelove @ Mar 26 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]1600626[/snapback]
I'm talking about christians who take the bible as litteraly as possible. In which case, that is what they would be doing.
I don't think there is a christian that does take it 100% litteraly IMO...the honest ones will tell you, that they too believe they are sinners
Hey yall, just passing through for a minute, have stuff to get back to, I just wanted to comment on BM's last. I admit I have not read the entire thread, and I don't usually post w/o reading the whole thing, so sorry if I'm off-topic, I'll keep it short. Yes, Christians know that they are sinners. Knowledge of one's sin nature is the foundation of Christianity, and at the heart of all of Jesus' teachings. I would argue that repentant Christians are more aware of their sin nature than a lot of people and will cop to it before some non-believers will. My experience to speak from only, most of the non-believers I know do not accept the idea of sin, and therefore make no claim to having a sin nature. That is not true for all nonj-believers, just most of the ones that I personally know.
Also, speaking for myself specifically, but I believe most of Bible believing Christians also, Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, and we are not under those laws anymore. Jesus Christ Himself is the law and the New Covenant and we abide by Him, not numerous OT laws that were needed in the time before Jesus came.
*Runs out the door on way to appointment* See ya later.
Also, speaking for myself specifically, but I believe most of Bible believing Christians also, Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, and we are not under those laws anymore. Jesus Christ Himself is the law and the New Covenant and we abide by Him, not numerous OT laws that were needed in the time before Jesus came.
*Runs out the door on way to appointment* See ya later.
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Mar 26 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]1600666[/snapback]
I don't think there is a christian that does take it 100% litteraly IMO...the honest ones will tell you, that they too believe they are sinners
I rather agree with that Geri sorta... Although I don't necessarily believe in sin as the Bible outlines it.
Let's face it Christian beliefs and practice are so wildly different across denominations who's to say what's right and wrong? And we can't even leave out the vast number of non-denominational Christians. Let's face it, you won't even find Christians agreeing with Christians in most things. It's one reason I don't like being painted with a broad Christian paintbrush.
As a Christian you pick your antedote and run with it. About the only commonality amoug all Christians is that they pretty much all believe in Christ as Savior. That's about it.
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