It has often confused me why it is necessary for the Clergy of many faiths to be celibate. Is it a matter of conserving sexual energy to direct elsewhere or is it a matter of 'cleanliness' or 'holiness' I have spoken to a friend of mine who is a Yogi who says that his celibacy gives him great inner strength.

I was hoping to throw it out to everyone to see exactly why this is so.

In my opinion..

Sex = natural human desire
Repressing natural desires is difficult
Person prays to God for help to remain celibate
In the process person strengthens faith: I.E. "God helps me stick with my vows".

Why else would a religion want to suppress harmless and human desires?

Good question AR...I came from a catholic background and till this day I have no idea as to why preists and nuns live a life of celibacy


IMO God made us to mate..and we spend a life time with our partners...heck I may as well be married myself ..ive been with my man that bloddy long..people have been realeased from prison a lot sooner lol all I need is a peice of paper stamped - married on it and presto its done

I cant imagine a life of celibacy..I love men too much...so sue me

Often, overcoming something difficult is the path to true freedom. Take it from someone who knows, you might never have the opportunity to understand how much something controls you until you wrestle with giving it up. It's an eye-opener!

i think they think by denying themselves its next to godliness, or its more holy, the irony is one never is able to deny something, what you resist persists, you plant it firmly into place...but you can outgrow things and transcend things, set aside things much like one sets aside an old pair of shoes not because they are bad and dirty or worng or vile, this is denial, not enlightenment .... One would always give thanks to what once was because they know its how they have come to where they are now...I thinkk AR alot of the ideas are misunderstood....We can see this isn't working the catholic church may have to redine their understanding of sexuality...this shows that which is repressed which is really natural can become dysfunctional in expression....and often harmful..I see a great oppourtunity for growth but do they??? dogmas that do not allow change create serious issues for themselves because mistakes are meant to learn from the wisdoms we apply for the better..i really get worried when things are ignored.......

the difficult part is one denys its there... nothing can be changed or given up or let go of until its excepted .....IMO As a exsmoker i know this only too well, it was in the exceptance of what was that opened the door to leetting go, this applys to anything...... that is why it is said see what is so and do what works, we have too many constructs that are unrealistic, therefore not practical IMO... ..Denial creates addictions that is what many failu to see IMO.....

THere is nothing overtly "holy" in remaining celibate, and there is no need for clergy of any faith to do it. Though in regards to Christianity, the apostle Paul does give guidelines - he says it's better to remain single, if you can. The simple reason is that without a family, it means you have more time to do the work of the Lord. But he also makes it absolutely clear that there is nothing wrong with having a family, they are great in many ways. If you wish to stay single, then that's good. if you want to get married, then taht's good also.

Having extra time to work for the Lord is important in many ways. I know many ministers who lament that they don't have time to do everything they can for the people under their care because of the duty they have in caring for their family also. And I also know some single ministers who'd love nothing more than to start a family. There's nothing wrong with either.

I've read some cynical responses to this question, but I think this answer is more realistic.

Regards, PA

I've heard that the Catholic church actually used to allow the priests to get married, but they wanted to retain wealth and power and not lose land to the wives and children of the priests through inheritance.

Good topic AR.....Can you elaborate on what you mean here ? Thanks..

So do you think its possible to choose to become celibate after experiencing as much as possible? So instead of denying any experiences, it would more like be accepting them for what they were and then keeping only what you deemed as truly important to you in the end.

I liked reading the apostle Pauls guidelines that PA posted.. thats pretty much how I look at it too.

What I mean is, for some people when they choose to be celibate as a willing lifestyle, if they follow the path through, can observe that when they submit their most driving desires to God, and let Him establish a different balance in their life, it is possible to find that a better perspective has been given to them. In other words, they can find that what once was their view of their needs and priorities, benefits from a fresh perspective.

Denial does not neccesarily create addiction, end of story. Often people try to give up behaviors on their own, and it creates frustration and backsliding, and a self-defeating sense of failure on their part.

However, from my personal experience, and that is of course the only point of view that I have to offer here, it is entirely possible for one's relationship with God to enable them to give something up for a short time, or for a lifetime. They key is to entirely hand it over to God, and not hold back. God has the ability to transform things for the better.

I don't know any priests, so I can not say what any of their motivation is for taking a vow of celibacy. I think that is better left up to a person on their own if they want to be single or married.

LOL, I am also an ex-smoker, former drug user, too, and some other things. I had no success changing my life on my own. But the more I give of myself to God, the more He uses His love to change things that I can not change on my own.

This is all just my personal experience, I can't speak for anyone else.

Nothing is unrealistic if it is possible for it to be done, with a little conviction, and not giving up because things are difficult.

Easy does not always = healthy, for everyone.

And about accepting something for what it is, that's funny, because it's actually exactly the same thing that I am saying! When you remove yourself from something and gain a possibly more objective viewpoint, you do begin to see things a little more honestly, that's true of anything. With a little distance on the behavior, you may decide that it would be beneficial to abstain from it. It can be done, and it won't drive you crazy.

Some people make this choice and benefit from it, and are not addicted to anything as a result, but have reaped positive benefits from it, so to dismiss it entirely and say that IT CREATES ADDICTION seems incorrect to me.

Also, another point, some people see sacrificing some of their carnal desires as an offering to God. If it improves their life, then it works for them. No one who does not want to do this, has to do it. I am just attempting to answer a question. I don't know how it works out for priests, I don't know any. I guess we could make generalizations from news reports, but it may work for some, if they are willing. But I think if some of these priests are suffering, they should maybe quit and get married. It is just as possible to worship God as a guy with a wife as it is as a priest. My thoughts on the subject, anyway.

Certainly. A friend of mine is a Yogi and he practices Reiki Healing (Though I don't believe it is true) He claims that by denying himself sexual activity, not to mention not drinking, smoking, eating meat etc he allows himself to conserve energy to be released when he is meditating. I personally don't know exactly the reason for this (Thus this thread) but it seems to me that he believes that sexual desires cloud the mind and that by denying himself these desires he brings himself closer to a feeling of oneness or divinity.

Sorry if that makes no sense but I don't understand it myself to well...

Neither do I....We'll have to take his word for it, I guess .....I'd hate to be around when eventually, all that pent up energy is finally released/explodes.....

I commented on this in post number 5 i do think one can out grow their sexuality not as a result of denial but for something greater...Most of the priests are denying their sexual nature most religions approach it this way....Releasing ones sexuality should be a joyous experince, not a austere pulling of teeth....

i feel i have outgrown the need for gods as a joyous celebration of who i have grown to be not because the alternative is unpleasing....when i was a beive r of god i honored that for what it was , i see celibacy the same way. One must have the option to explore thier sexuality too, to know themselves as whole...Tantra is te beautiful expression of sexuality by the way......

AR i am a vegan and yogini with a healthy sexual expresson and I meditate too in joyous celebration of this new way to express and nurture my organism, not as a denial or repression of my self this is what i feel is in misunderstanding... I let go of meat not for any reasons just becasue that is who i am now, I have great suspicion when people make claims that celebacy or meat will lead to betters this is very religous in nature to me and BS..., there is only one reason to ever do things its becasue its celebartes who you are and the reward is in that....I don't need or require things to be who i am anyways, a freind of mine says some need training wheels some don't........

great post Texas....We are similar...

I hope I'm not driving everybody mad with info on Roman Catholics and celibacy. I just thought I would elaborate on the reasons that are claimed by the Catholic Church compared to what I believe are the real reasons.

Here is some information from Austin Cline from this link.

"Celibacy has not always been a requirement for priests or other clergy members. Supporters of celibacy rely heavily upon Matthew 19:12, where Jesus is quoted as saying that "...they have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept this." In this case, "eunuchs" is interpreted to be a reference to people who have renounced marriage and remain celibate - but if Jesus really did place such a high value on celibacy, why were most if not all of his apostles married? Surely he could have found unmarried people to follow him.

Over time rules about the sexual abstinence grew out of the belief that sexual intercourse made a person "unclean," based in part on the idea that women were less pure than men and hence constituted a form of ritual contamination.

Although the value of celibacy has also long rested upon the belief that self-renunciation made a person more holy, the continued existence of an all-male priesthood means that the importance of celibacy cannot be divorced from an accompanying view of women as being less moral and less worthy than men.
As a consequence, married priests were prohibited from celebrating the Eucharist for a full day after having sexual intercourse with their wives. Because there was a trend to celebrate the Eucharist more and more often, sometimes even daily, there was great pressure on priests to be celibate just to fulfill their basic religious functions - and eventually they were prohibited from having sex at all with their wives. Because of this, celibacy among priests was already somewhat common by 300 A.D., when the Spanish Council of Elvira required that bishops, priests, and deacons who were married abstain from sex with their wives.

It wasn't until 1139, with the Second Lateran Council, that mandatory celibacy was officially imposed on all priests. Any marriage entered into by a priest was regarded as invalid and anyone currently married had to separate from their spouses - leaving them to whatever fate God had in store for them, even if it meant leaving them destitute. Of course this was an immoral thing to do to those spouses, and many clergy realized that there was little religious or traditional basis for it, so they defied that order and continued in their marriages.

Perhaps the final blow against priests' ability to marry came during the Council of Trent (1545-1563) - and through a technicality. It was at this time that the church asserted that no one could be considered to have a valid Christian marriage unless that marriage were performed by a valid priest and in front of two witnesses. Before this, private marriages performed by priests or, indeed, just about anyone else, were common in some areas. Sometimes the only people who were there was the officiant and the couple. Now, however, such clandestine marriages were impossible - and this effectively eliminated marriage for the clergy.

The Council of Trent, called in order to combat the challenges posed by the Protestant Reformation, also made a very interesting statement regarding the church's position on "family values":

"If anyone says that it is not better and more godly to live in virginity or in the unmarried state than to marry, let him be anathema."

A further and very important factor in the push to require celibacy for clergy was the problematic relationship the Roman Catholic Church had with real estate and inherited land. Priests and bishops were not just religious leaders: they also had political power over the people. When they controlled land, which was at the time the basis for any political power, that land could either go to the church or to the man's heirs when he died.

Naturally the church wanted to keep it and retain political power itself; the best way to do that was to ensure that there weren't any rival claimants on the land, and keeping the clergy celibate and unmarried was the easiest way to accomplish this goal. Making celibacy a religious obligation was also the best way to make sure that the clergy obeyed."

This is very interesting, Austin Cline seems to be saying that the major foundations for celibacy in the Roman Catholic Church are from a belief that sex is unclean due to unclean women, and that controlling land holdings is very important and central to the wealth and power of the Church.

If celibacy is about personal focus, that is something I can respect, and I feel that it is none of my business. If it is due to convoluted ideas about sex, women being morally corrupt and unclean, and greed, I just can't respect that!

I agree PA, you hit the nail on the head.

I've heard much the same in my studies of this and that. I have a friend who is a professional boxer, his trainer recommends that he abstain from any sex act for at least three days before a fight. I suppose this is to create a buildup of testosterone in his system, thusly giving him a bit of a boost in the aggression department. I'm not sure that has anything to do with Reiki.

Much along the lines of what PA said, the celibate person replaces the physical activity with more spiritual activity in order to achieve some sort of advancement.

I think Yogis are a bit ascetic and denial helps them reach enlightenment.

not so REv I'm a devoute yogini and hyper is a yogi neither of us buys into this, its a denial of life one honors life as it is....both of us are sexually active....It would block your chakras In my world....

Link.. just a quick one I found..

So I guess some people buy into it. So each to their own.

There is a difference between denying or trying to ignore quite normal sexual urges, loss of the sexual urge due to medical/mental health problems and the complete cessation of the sexual urge and other desires which are commensurate with the cessation of the self.


Forcing oneself to cease desires is a desire of course.

well many things are influenced by religous dogma ...this austere approach its absurd and silly IMO, i guess folks can't imagine just enjoying things they have to create aestics around things for them to have merit, this is such a dogmatic understanding ....Old habits die ahrd as they say LOL....or a sucker is born every minute .....ha ha ha ha ha

I just wanted to point out that some people do buy into it which I found when I simply put Yogi and Celibacy into a google search together..

And like I kinda said before... somethings can be enjoyed and not denied, and then given up because they are no longer needed. It's what people do which is kinda what you were saying earlier yes?

I was aware that the suffering is noble thing permeates many things as you found, yes i agree with you as you said giving up can be a celebration , quiting smoking was fun for me not a horror.... gee to remove myself for the possiblity of lung cancer and other heinous diseases was joyous LOL...to gain mastery over my mind has had far reaching benefits, transcending a meat to vegan diet has been a gift to my organism, i find no need to put a austere spin on any change to good grief I'll never understand why some have to have negative connnotaions around things to make them have meaning. why not call it what it is a gift?, if folks could grant themsleves anything I'd say to be happy would be a good place to start ...??? negativity imo has become an epidemic ....

I'm alittle confused. Is this not negativity in some form..


?

Anyway.

My former father in law was a Priest in his younger years (obviously if he was my father in law, he didn't remain a priest) and this was exactly his explanation of a Priests vow of celebacy. Even to this day, he still maintains that the vow of celebacy is important for a Priest.

It's an entirely man made rule.