It was over 28 years ago, I doubt very much if he cares to apologize now...in fact when he did apologize..he only did so to my mom and my dad...........the creep!!

It depends on the level of what the person has done. ive people and family i havent spoke to in years, sometimes its better to keep them out of your life.

A rabbi once told me that in Hebrew, forgiving someone means not to seek revenge.

Hey BM

I'm sorry to say that I have not read many posts here but you know me I'll give you my two cents based on what I did read

How easy is it to forgive? hmmm, for me? personally? easy....why? because I choose to go under the idea that all people are doing what they feel is best at the time....If someone has true desire to harm others with nothing behind it other then they think it is funny? then I just wouldn't forgive, but I've never personally seen that happen in my own life....At time's i've had to dig to see the reason, or give it time, but it always does.....we are human and we do alot of things because we are not sure, nervous, scared, worried, or angry about something else.....perhaps even something as simple as something that was done ten years ago that the other person never forgot, now to you, you may not even remember it and move on but to the other person it just sat and gained more and more resentment and finally they do something....

Or maybe you did or said something to hurt or offend someone and again you may not know you did it but they were hurt so they lash out in some way....does that make it right? no not at all, but for me if I know the reason I forgive, usually .... lol I try I really do, and I know I rub people the wrong way a lot so I figure if people can forgive me then who am I to not forgive others......

Darn, I am so sweet
LOL

So maybe YOU would be all forgiving ect if it where...................................................you

You would forgive...forget <--man you are so strong to forget something like it......and you would move on...EASY cuz you are you

You wouldnt let that thing like you at the age of 4, watching a man break into your house, beat up your mother, looking at your moms face, seeing how scared she was..noooo that wouldnt get to you that much...since you are so darn sweet in saying it's so EASY...in fact...when he kept beating on your mom...heck man you would jjust push it all aside, as IF it where just a bad dream

Darn you are such the sweetie

but see me and like 99.9% of the people here POSTED..and those that did ACTUALLY read it...think a tad different than you

A peice of advise...forgive yourself. You were four years old and, as I said in my earlier post, had just had your world turned upside down. You were in shock. It's not so much the fact that this happened that's troubling you, it's the fact that you COULDN'T do anything to affect it. Answer this, have you ever been at a loss for words or couldn't come up with a witty reply to something on the spot and then spent the rest of the day/evening thinking of things you COULD have said? It's the same situation just under different circumstances. You wish you could have bashed his head in with a frying pan. You wish you would have ran him through with the butcher's knife that was in the kitchen. You wish you would have picked up the phone to dial for help. Anything! But what you may fail to realize is that YOU WERE IN SHOCK!

I was in a great deal of shock, which is why I froze the whole time, it was as if, time had stood still..I couldn't move, I just saw him beating her, heard her cry..and I couldnt move with shock, I remember thinking...go for the knife its in the drawer, go for it, help her..and I did nothing...I know I could have been killed, cuz I was so tiny and he was a 6 footer..but gee why didn't I?? shock !!

I did hate myself much later for it..going over and over, WHY didn't I do this, why didn't I do that?? but hind side is a wonderful thing I guess

See part of me feels, that my mom blames me for just standing there...she never said so...but I guess I wont know, unless I ask her

Actually, if we're talking in Christian terms, as BM is.. the whole Bible is about how humans are evil and don't deserve to be forgiven.. and God gives them potential mercy and if they don't accept it he punishes them and doesn't forgive them for the crimes against God they supposedly committed before conception. Forgiveness is not something that is demonstrated in the Bible.

Its interesting how different people can read the same text and draw completely different conclusions. The Bible, because of its complexity and significance is a classic example of this. I guess we all bring our personal and cultural filters with us when we read it, but having read and studied the bible many times, I find it hard to believe we read the same book.

A number of your comments are what is taught by certain denominations particularly in the past by the Catholic church (but remember they strongly discouraged peole from reading the bible and suggested that only priests were able to understand and interpret it) They are not really true of the bible, although given pre-existing beliefs, i can see how you might interpret it in this way.

The bible says we are created in god's image. Therefore we are not and never were evil. God gave us the same free will that he has, and '"we"/humanity chose to disobey a prime directive. This was an act for which we were punished by the loss of immortality, but all were forgiven. It did not make us innately evil, just disobedient.

Because of our free will, humanity makes choices which bring disastrous consequences on it. Because we were removed from an idyllic paradise, we also suffer from the forces of nature. This is not the punishment of god. it might be the work of the devil, but i think it is more likely just the natural consequences of our nature and our choices. God does what he can to alleviate both individual and communal suffering. He demonstrates many times in the bible how to live a safer and richer life. He warns many times about the natural consequences of failing to live this way. He also sometimes directly punishes people who continue to disregard these warnings, but the bible indicates that he does this with reluctance and considerable angst.

God must have felt we were worthy of forgiveness or he would not have sacrificed a part of himself to allow us the opportunity to regain our immortality.

The bible does not say that children are sinners. Rather, one of jesus most famous quotes is "let the little children come to me. "It was the church's desire to control its congregation that "damned" young children. While they are part of humanity which lost immortality in Eden they are automatically restored to it by Jesus's sacrifice. On the other hand those old enough to do so must accept this sacrifice through an act of free will.
If you accept the reality of god, then you know that all we are, and all we have, come from him. We showed and continue to show a lack of appreciation for this but god forgives this and only asks that we accept hi to be restored to eternal life.
Even in the old testament there are instances of god rewarding people for faithfulness, such as job, and forgiving those who show contrition for breaking his laws, but admittedly it was a harsh time with severe consequences for people who put their communities at risk. Perhaps it was necessary to have both a very clear code of moral and social conduct and also to illustrate what might be the consequence for breaking them

I hate to say this to you, but I hold a great deal of RESPECT for the Catholic faith...you have to rember that they do in fact express how important it is to FOLLOW JESUS they are one of the biggest of christians of christianity still to this very day...and YES I should KNOW, that they do encurrage us to read from the bible...heck I grew up with the bible...I had it preached to me every evening at 6 after the rosery was said...so I think I know that they do read from a bible...the only ones that say they dont, are those that are against the church...I think it's high time chrsitians show respect for ALL chrsitians faiths..not just their own..but ALL...thats the only way you can shrug off any kind of dislike towards a holy faith...and remember where protestants came from...the catholic faith, and as I have been to both chuches, I fail to see what the big fuss is about.................Religion is not meant to fight, or show disrespect towards anyone that follows Jesus...thats a fact

Sorry Mr Walker, but from reading what you had to say, about me being talked to by a catholic preist, that it looks as though you didnt think it was GOOD ENOUGH...thats not fair of you to say that

I do fully understand how you believe your way is the only way...after all if you didn't think so, you wouldn't follow it would you??

But Mr Walker....the bible cant make me change..I tried...didnt you read where I took books from my mother, and read them?? now they wernt catholic books...nooo siree..they where in fact holy books from her Born Again Chrsitian Group leaders....thats where.cuz my mom is a born again...now they didnt have any effect on me either...............so now are you going to tell me, they they too are also not right??

Mr Walker.......I'll say one thing.........your heart is in the right place, dispite what you have to say about a faith I respect...your heart is still in the right place, and I like the fact you show compassion....that itself shows you are caring..........not a bible, just whats inside of you...so for that Mr Walker - I THANK YOU ((hugs)))

Oh my goodness, Becky's Mom! I've read your story and it just makes me want to cry. I understand that you don't know me and we have never talked on the board but how could you think that your Mother would blame you? This isn't said out of anything other than kindness. But you were a little girl a frightened scared little girl! Your Mother would have felt much worse if something would have happened to you if you had tried to defend her and your uncle hurt you or worse killed you. You said this man hurt your little brother for going against him during the attack.

I love my Mom too , she is my rock, my friend and yet I don't know what I would have done if I would have found myself in your place at the same age. Most likely the same thing been so scared and uncomprehending at what I was seeing that I would have frozen too and then hated myself for not being able to do something about it. I do hope that you and your Mother are still close that you haven't let this come into your relationship with her. Feeling guilty and creating a distance from her because of feeling responsible. My goodness even if you had been a woman grown wouldn't have meant that you would have faired any better against such a lout.

This may sound odd did you ever find out why he did it? Maybe if you know that it may give you a toehold to understand it and maybe once you understand it be able to move away from it. Becky's Mom I don't know if you can ever forgive him, if you can't I don't think that it's a failing in you. In my opinion for someone to do that the person has to be sick in someway, either mentally imbalanced or under the influence of something or if that isn't the case then he is sick in spirit and of the three I don't know which is worse. His kind of anger is a poison to the soul and unfortunately you've been effected by it. But did anyone ever ask you if you were ok after what you saw? Did anyone ever ask you what seeing that did to you? You have empathized with your Mother, Father and Brother but how about the little one inside of you that still hurts?

I don't know what else to say, you will be in my thoughts.
Mabon.

A peice of advise...forgive yourself. Answer me this, have you ever been at a loss for words or couldn't come up with a witty reply to something on the spot and then spent the rest of the day/evening thinking of things you COULD have said? It's the same kind of situation, just under different circumstances. You wish you could have bashed his head in with a frying pan. You wish you would have ran him through with the butcher's knife that was in the kitchen. You wish you would have picked up the phone to dial for help. Anything!


YOU WERE IN SHOCK! A four year old child's body doesn't know how to deal with the massive amount of adrenaline that must have been pumping through your system at the time. The fact that you didn't black out is testament enough that you did have some level of control. You were ready to fight, but you didn't know how to fight what you were up against, let alone your own body's reaction to what was going on. You weren't able to fling yourself in harm's way, but you were able to stay conscious and make sure that your Mom wasn't fatally hurt.

So, here you are, nearly thrity years later (you're getting up that hill, aren't you, hun? ) and you want so bad to be able to have a release for all that pent up frustration and hostility. The moment's passed you by, though. If you found Dan, if you hurt him, you'd end up with charges for assault, premeditated at that. You'd be taken away from your life, your love, your Becky! So, that's not an option, is it? You've already taken the steps to make sure that something like that will never happen again, no doubt. So, what's left? You, and this never ending desire to put things right in your own mind. But that's where this begins, and should end. Don't ever forget the lessons this taught you, but quit blaming yourself!

You say that you feel like your mother blames you for not acting, but has she ever expressed her disappointment that you didn't go to her rescue? You feel this way, but does your mother? It's a parent's job to protect the child. Would it be Becky's job to protect you if you were attacked? Then why do you feel it was your duty in that situation?

It's time to let it go, sweety. You want to forgive, maybe you're trying too hard to forgive the wrong person. Maybe forgiveness isn't as much about pardoning someone else's actions and more about absolving your own.

No I don’t believe anyone asked me, all I can recall was when my dad arrived home from Paris, and I told him, what had happened, he was angered and hurt so he went off and delt with Dan personally. I think that because I was just a hid to them, and I wasn’t phycially hurt in any way, my dad never thought that it had effect me. But what is strange about that was, I must have been going on and on about it, even having nightmares, that’s when my aunt took me to talk to someone, a priest

I can’t remember if i was ever asked , because if I where asked, I think maybe if i had of talked to someone to help me back then, maybe a child physiologist or something, to help me battle it

I love my mom dearly, and I don’t think anyone would want to see their mom hurt

Thinking back, my mom and I would get mad and into an argument, my mom always won though, cuz I daren’t go over board LOL ..but I did used to take the usual teenage huff with my mom and my dad, but that never lasted more than an hour..sometimes 15 mins and there I was all jolly with them again, AFTER I said sorry LOL...but still got grounded meh LOL

I know you have never spoken to me on the boards, but I appreciate you taking the time to read what I had to say, and you gave such a wonderful response, and I felt although you don’t know me, I still felt you cared, to me that makes it feel better, and hope you will stick around more often...

was told my uncle moved far down to the South of Ireland MUM, my mom told me this, when I was bugging her at a teenager, so she told me he had moved away ages ago, and she don't know the exact address. I think she does know, but fears I will do something I may regret, and she most likely thinks that I could still get hurt, I dunno, I am just guessing

My bro that was there on the same day (he was just 3) he doesn't want to talk about it, in fact, if it ever came up (once in a blue moon) he walks out of the room, he doesn't want to talk about it

Parts of my guilt for not doing anything, makes me think, what if my mom thinks I should have done something?? But then again if she felt that way, she wouldn't be asking me to move on with it...but then again my mom changes her mind too often, so it's hard to know what she is thinking

This thread I made, has been the 1st time I have EVER written about it, not only that MUM< but it's the 1st time i have spoken to strangers about it too, and like you say get some feed back

Wanna know the difference is between talking it through with my family and talking it through with you guys?? Simple, you guys have actually placed yourselves into my shoes, and saw it aas if it where your own moms. My family just say - move on and forget it, if you don't want o forgive him...that's it in a nut shell, where as you guys on here, who are people I have never met, seem to show a more caring side and a lot more understanding

I know your mum doesn't blame you for anything, Geri....How can she ?? You and your brother were only babies....

I think she blames herself for what you and your bro had to witness......She probably feels she didn't do enough to stop/prevent it....

In my view, only your uncle is to blame obviously and should be ashamed of what he put you three through...

Your family can't talk about this issue Geri because it's too personal and hurts too much....We here on UM are outsiders and it's easier for us to comment when there's no real emotion involved.....

what bible are you reading. it is full of forgiveness. the catholics are the only ones that believe in original sin. (i think). the nt is all about how we are to forgive. in fact 70 times 7 times aday. which means endless. jesus says that we are to not seek revenge but to leave it up to him to take care of the person. reason being is because holding the grudge only continues to harm us, becky your uncle will get his and i hope you are around to see it. but for your own sake i hope you can find it in your heart to get rid of this burden and sit back and watch. he will get his. to me it sounds like you have post tramatic stress disorder. it can last for years. know it well. i hope things work out for you.

I did not mean to disrespect the current catholic church or its followers becky's mum. I carefully stated "in the past"

For centuries, however, they were just about the only christian "sect" and they developed some strange and non biblical beliefs(which any church in those times may have come up with) The priests had a monopoly in spreading ideas and beliefs, before the invention of the printing press. As a result, the catholic church moved quite a long way from biblical and early christian principles ( their theories on the roles of women in the church and at home is just one example) This did not re.ally change until after the reformation.As a result, even today, a lot of people confuse biblical principles with catholic ones eg the idea of men and particularly women being inherently evil. or the idea that there is a hell that people go to when they die when the bible clearly states that they will bwe in a state of sleep until the judgement day.

"It really doesn't matter if the person who hurt you deserves to be forgiven. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. You have things to do and you want to move on."

When you do not forgive you choose not to forgive.....You want to take offence to what I said Becky go right on ahead that's your choice...silly as it is that you get angry just because someone else can do something that you for some odd reason find yourself incapable of doing....

Being angry about something that happened when you were four is something that you choose to hold onto, in all actuallity your perception of what really happened is not exactly accurate or true as a child we build things up bigger or smaller and time makes those memories different as well. Yes horrible things happen all the time....Yes some people forgive....some people don't but if you are not able to do so and obviously don't want any advise on how you could what is the point in this thread? to have people say oh poor becky I understand and this and that? no I'm sorry you are an adult you move on or you let it kill you but again don't ask how to forgive if you so obviously have NO desire to do SO!!!!

Dont give up your day job

I think I know what it is Geri... and because I haven't read this entire thread, I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet.

I went through this same type of forgiveness issue 3 times in my life.

The third and last time it happened, I realized FINALLY why it was SO hard to forgive.

I was going through a terrible divorce, and my ex-husband had done some things that absolutely were unforgivable in my opinion. I was speaking with my mother on the phone and she practically yelled at me... "You HAVE to forgive him at this point Nic. Your father and I have forgiven him. If you do not forgive you will never move past this bitterness and anger, and your bitterness and anger does NO one any good." She was so ticked off at me, my mother the softspoken, mystical hippy type... it was quite a shocker. I of course yelled back at her "how can you possibly forgive all that he did mother?! You're basically telling me it's OK what he did!?"

That's when it hit me... sometimes forgiveness feels like condoning someones bad actions.

I can forgive the person, but I do not have to like what they did, in fact I can detest it... but unless I let go of the anger, bitterness and feelings of revenge, I'd never be whole again. It took a little while for me to let go of all that, but I honestly believe that once I forgave him, I recovered with a great deal of speed. It was about allowing myself to move on.

I have no problem with forgiveness as long as the offending person shows some sign of remorse.
Aww heck, I'd prob forgive them anyway.