Hey everyone. This is an extremely detailed lecture about womans rights in Islam. Im not putting icing over the cake here, im not even saying there is a cake. I just think that since this is a topic of controversy, you should at least hear out what rights they do have instead of hearing what they dont have and this is the morally just thing to do. They are four lectures, each almost an hour. The link is of the first part and from their on the right side as Im sure most of you know you can move on to the scond, third, and lastly fourth part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1irxNIDrxwo
Keep in mind that woman are convertng to Islam twice as much as men. Western woman. So at least for those interested, esp woman, watch the lectures.
Tc all.
Full Version: The rights woman have in Islam
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
My husband's niece converted to Islam about 6 years ago....She was raised an Orthodox Christian.....As you can imagine, her family were horrified.....They thought that maybe she was going through a 'phase' or doing it to please her boyfriend (who is now her husband).......
But after all these years, she's still going strong in her faith and started wearing the Nicob (full covering) about 18 months ago....We always have talks with her about converting back or at least to take off the Nicob but she's adamant, this is what she wants to do for herself and Allah....
She studies the Koran and is raising her two sons in the best way she can, as Muslim men, while living in a westen world.......
I've come to the conclusion that she has found inner peace and an acceptance within her faith in Islam.....She's very happy and content and always tells me that indeed, the woman is treated/should be treated like a queen by her husband......
I think that non-Muslims have a problem with women's position in Islam and not Muslim women themselves.... That's just my view ofcourse.....
But after all these years, she's still going strong in her faith and started wearing the Nicob (full covering) about 18 months ago....We always have talks with her about converting back or at least to take off the Nicob but she's adamant, this is what she wants to do for herself and Allah....
She studies the Koran and is raising her two sons in the best way she can, as Muslim men, while living in a westen world.......
I've come to the conclusion that she has found inner peace and an acceptance within her faith in Islam.....She's very happy and content and always tells me that indeed, the woman is treated/should be treated like a queen by her husband......
I think that non-Muslims have a problem with women's position in Islam and not Muslim women themselves.... That's just my view ofcourse.....
Thank you for sharing that, you're so kind 
QUOTE(muslim @ Mar 26 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]1599899[/snapback]
Thank you for sharing that, you're so kind
You're very welcome....
It's important to share true-life experiences with people, so as to get a different perspective other than what the media likes to constantly bombard us with......
I've deleted the last few posts in this thread due to their inflammatory content. Moondoggy - if you can't reasonably discuss this topic, then perhaps you should consider not posting at all. Remember, this is the Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs board. For skeptic-vs-believer debates, head over to the Spirituality vs Skepticism board and do so over there.
~ PA
~ PA
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Mar 26 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]1600071[/snapback]
I've deleted the last few posts in this thread due to their inflammatory content. Moondoggy - if you can't reasonably discuss this topic, then perhaps you should consider not posting at all. Remember, this is the Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs board. For skeptic-vs-believer debates, head over to the Spirituality vs Skepticism board and do so over there.
~ PA
~ PA
I can't believe I missed all the action......
Great post
I remember at another forum, a fellow named muslim made a post called something like "How to keep your Wife Happy (Islamic view)"
Anyway, it had a section entitled disobedience.
One of the ways to punish her was to hit her, but not on the face as too humiliate her.
One of the things it was OK to hit her for was "Refusing intercourse to often"
I wonder how many of these converts know about this?
Is it standard codification to hit Women as punishment in Islam?
Anyway, it had a section entitled disobedience.
One of the ways to punish her was to hit her, but not on the face as too humiliate her.
One of the things it was OK to hit her for was "Refusing intercourse to often"
I wonder how many of these converts know about this?
Is it standard codification to hit Women as punishment in Islam?
No it isnt standard codification. Muslims should take Mohammed as their role model and he never beat any of his wives.
QUOTE(Bob26003 @ Mar 26 2007, 09:07 AM) [snapback]1600151[/snapback]
Is it standard codification to hit Women as punishment in Islam?
of course not, it's a severe misintrepretation, happens all over the world. As far as I remember, the only time you get to beat the living heck out of someone, is when your country / house is being invaded.
Cool, thanks for clearing that up. 
QUOTE(Bob26003 @ Mar 26 2007, 07:07 PM) [snapback]1600151[/snapback]
I remember at another forum, a fellow named muslim made a post called something like "How to keep your Wife Happy (Islamic view)"
Anyway, it had a section entitled disobedience.
One of the ways to punish her was to hit her, but not on the face as too humiliate her.
One of the things it was OK to hit her for was "Refusing intercourse to often"
I wonder how many of these converts know about this?
Is it standard codification to hit Women as punishment in Islam?
Anyway, it had a section entitled disobedience.
One of the ways to punish her was to hit her, but not on the face as too humiliate her.
One of the things it was OK to hit her for was "Refusing intercourse to often"
I wonder how many of these converts know about this?
Is it standard codification to hit Women as punishment in Islam?
You're not serious with this, are you ??? Do you think that once a Muslim man gets married he automatically receives a 'How to......' guide as a wedding present ?????
Next you're gonna tell me they teach 'husband lessons' at school for little boys.....
You know what ?? We really need some Muslim women to post on this thread, as they're the ones who can really tell us about their rights within Islam and their marriage......
Everything else is conjecture and second-hand hearsay......So unless you're Muslim and have a uterus, don't bother posting.....
Everything else is conjecture and second-hand hearsay......So unless you're Muslim and have a uterus, don't bother posting.....
here is a million bazillion sites about women in Islam.
I reverted to Islam only about a week ago
, but I had been considering for a few months now. My problem was the whole womens rights thing, because I also consider myself a feminist. I believed a lot of the misconceptions about women in Islam until I stopped being lazy and started reading things on my own. If I felt Islam in some way regarded women as second class citizens, I wouldn't have reverted.
Islam - Elevation of women status
The Distorted Image of Muslim Women
The status of Women in Islam
The First and Last link are only if you really have a lot of time to read on it, big articles. But the second one though is quite short and to the point.
I reverted to Islam only about a week ago
, but I had been considering for a few months now. My problem was the whole womens rights thing, because I also consider myself a feminist. I believed a lot of the misconceptions about women in Islam until I stopped being lazy and started reading things on my own. If I felt Islam in some way regarded women as second class citizens, I wouldn't have reverted.Islam - Elevation of women status
The Distorted Image of Muslim Women
The status of Women in Islam
The First and Last link are only if you really have a lot of time to read on it, big articles. But the second one though is quite short and to the point
.
QUOTE(EmpressStarXVII @ Mar 26 2007, 08:12 PM) [snapback]1600198[/snapback]
here is a million bazillion sites about women in Islam.
I reverted to Islam only about a week ago, but I had been considering for a few months now. My problem was the whole womens rights thing, because I also consider myself a feminist. I believed a lot of the misconceptions about women in Islam until I stopped being lazy and started reading things on my own. If I felt Islam in some way regarded women as second class citizens, I wouldn't have reverted.
Islam - Elevation of women status
The Distorted Image of Muslim Women
The status of Women in Islam
The First and Last link are only if you really have a lot of time to read on it, big articles. But the second one though is quite short and to the point.
I reverted to Islam only about a week ago
, but I had been considering for a few months now. My problem was the whole womens rights thing, because I also consider myself a feminist. I believed a lot of the misconceptions about women in Islam until I stopped being lazy and started reading things on my own. If I felt Islam in some way regarded women as second class citizens, I wouldn't have reverted.Islam - Elevation of women status
The Distorted Image of Muslim Women
The status of Women in Islam
The First and Last link are only if you really have a lot of time to read on it, big articles. But the second one though is quite short and to the point
.Ask and I shall receive......
The rights woman have in Islam?
You have the right to remain silent.
QUOTE
The rights woman have in Islam?
You have the right to remain silent.
You have the right to remain silent.
Huh?
Anyways, nice post muslim. I think we should have more posts like this on Islam or any other religions. This would clear up the air of dispute.
Of course, there's always two sides to a story ... And this is not meant as an offense to my Muslim pals. It is simply a sad fact in some parts of the Islamic world. Hopefully by giving voice to this issue, things will change for the better.
Women and the Price of Honor in Pakistan
by Paolo Bassi
11 Feb, 2007
Other than in war, women suffer the most violence in countries where secular law is non-existent or subservient to religion, patriarchy and custom. Currently, no-where is this more prevalent than in Islamic cultures a fact that apologists and political correctness cannot conceal.
According to a 1999 Amnesty International Report, in Punjab province alone, 286 women were victims of honor killings in 1998. The Shirkat Gah, a Pakistani women's organization, claims that around 1,000 women are murdered each year. This number excludes unreported cases where women simply vanish, or where honor killings are disguised or subsumed into other crimes.
Most honor killings are carried out by close male relatives, fathers, brothers, husbands and even sons. Sometimes a tribal council or "jirga" will condemn a woman to death and even choose her killers. The charge is almost always immoral sexual conduct, whether real, fabricated or suspected. Exactly what constitutes immorality or the evidence for it are irrelevant. Merely talking to an unapproved male, receiving a glance or showing independence can be enough to incur a death sentence or physical disfigurement. Women have even been killed because their husbands dreamt their wives had been unfaithful.
Once a women is under suspicion of immoral or un-Islamic behavior, she has destroyed the "izzat" or honor of her family. What matters above all is the public perception of the stain on family honor. Incredulously, it is the "dishonored" males who are regarded as the real victims and not the woman facing death. Once honor has been lost, the besmirched males can only regain it by killing the offending woman. Since the dishonor was public, the killing is often done openly. In truth, the killers know there is little chance of prosecution.
The psychology behind honor killings is simple and brutally feudal. The woman, especially in rural areas, is the property of men and, like speechless chattel, she is passed from father and brothers to husband and sons. Despite her low status and being an object of lifelong sexual suspicion, she is also, paradoxically, the repository of male honor “honor that is to be maintained through her obedience, virginity before marriage and faithful domestic servitude as a wife. It is contradictory that a culture that lays the burden of family honor on women, also barters them in marriage deals like objects to settle legal or other disputes.
Honor killings are also linked to rape since raped women are deemed to have dishonored their families by having been raped and are now liable to be killed. This perverse injustice is perpetuated by Islamic shariah law, which demands that a women alleging rape must produce four Muslim male witnesses (the testimony of non-Muslims is worthless under shariah). If the victim cannot produce the witnesses, she may stand accused of unlawful sex. Since a rape victim cannot possibly meet this cruel and farcical standard, she had better stay silent and pray no-one discovers she was raped.
There is another category of rape, almost beyond belief, that was brought to international attention by a Punjabi woman, Muktaran Bibi, in 2002. Muktaran's teenage brother was seen talking to a girl from a superior clan. Men from this clan took revenge by beating and raping the boy. Not satisfied, they eyed the boy's older, unmarried sister, Muktaran. The village council or " panchayat" gave the green light. Muktaran was summoned and taken into a locked room where she was gang-raped and then paraded. Class too played its part in this outrage. Muktaran was poor and powerless and, like a medieval serf, she was easy prey for her feudal superiors. It is also cruelly paradoxical that Muktaran was raped to restore male honor while thousands of other women are killed on mere suspicion of having sex.
Honor killings do not occur in an ideological vacuum. Certainly custom, patriarchy and feudalism are all responsible for the violence inflicted on Pakistani women. However, blame must also be laid at the feet of Islamic law, which implicitly provides the moral justification and thus the incitement to kill. Islamic law is bent on maintaining jurisdiction over honor killing and rape cases by treating them as religious issues outside secular law, which it regards as alien and subversive to Islam. The aim is simple “to keep women in perpetual fear and insecurity.
What then is the role of the Pakistani secular legal system in all this? On paper, Pakistan is committed to treating honor killings and rape as crimes. Pakistan is even a signatory to the 1993 UN Declaration of the Elimination of Violence against Women, which recognizes honor killings as violations of international human rights.
The problem is that the Pakistani government, its judiciary and police are not fully committed to enforcing their own secular criminal law. The ancient forces of religion and custom are entrenched and the state cannot or will not dislodge them for fear of social unrest or galvanizing the Islamists.
Regardless of the efforts of the brave journalists, lawyers and Pakistani women's groups who daily confront honor killings, the West also has a moral responsibility. Western writers, particularly liberals, are loathe to morally and critically evaluate the cultural and religious forces that incite violence against women for fear of charges of racism, cultural insensitivity and political incorrectness.
Meaningful western pressure cannot be achieved by deference to political correctness. The silence over the ideological roots of the violence only maintains it. For once, fear of hurting the cultural and religious sentiments of others, is disingenuous and cowardly.
Honor killings must be confronted by unyielding universal human rights that transcend cultures and faiths and that need no justification for their acceptance. This is not western cultural imperialism but rather values that belong to all peoples based on shared notions of innate human justice. This fight belongs above all to the left for it goes to the very roots of liberal humane ideals. Self-censorship and political correctness must not stand in the way.
Other articles:
Women's Rights
Veils
Women Worth Less than Men
Proving Rape
Wife-Beating
Divorce - Triple Talaq
Divorce - Remarriage
Men in Charge of Women
Adultery
Polygamy
Prostitution - Temporary Marriage
Homosexuality
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Support/TopMenu.htm
Links to Muslim and former Muslim sites:
http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/links.htm
Sean
Women and the Price of Honor in Pakistan
by Paolo Bassi
11 Feb, 2007
Other than in war, women suffer the most violence in countries where secular law is non-existent or subservient to religion, patriarchy and custom. Currently, no-where is this more prevalent than in Islamic cultures a fact that apologists and political correctness cannot conceal.
According to a 1999 Amnesty International Report, in Punjab province alone, 286 women were victims of honor killings in 1998. The Shirkat Gah, a Pakistani women's organization, claims that around 1,000 women are murdered each year. This number excludes unreported cases where women simply vanish, or where honor killings are disguised or subsumed into other crimes.
Most honor killings are carried out by close male relatives, fathers, brothers, husbands and even sons. Sometimes a tribal council or "jirga" will condemn a woman to death and even choose her killers. The charge is almost always immoral sexual conduct, whether real, fabricated or suspected. Exactly what constitutes immorality or the evidence for it are irrelevant. Merely talking to an unapproved male, receiving a glance or showing independence can be enough to incur a death sentence or physical disfigurement. Women have even been killed because their husbands dreamt their wives had been unfaithful.
Once a women is under suspicion of immoral or un-Islamic behavior, she has destroyed the "izzat" or honor of her family. What matters above all is the public perception of the stain on family honor. Incredulously, it is the "dishonored" males who are regarded as the real victims and not the woman facing death. Once honor has been lost, the besmirched males can only regain it by killing the offending woman. Since the dishonor was public, the killing is often done openly. In truth, the killers know there is little chance of prosecution.
The psychology behind honor killings is simple and brutally feudal. The woman, especially in rural areas, is the property of men and, like speechless chattel, she is passed from father and brothers to husband and sons. Despite her low status and being an object of lifelong sexual suspicion, she is also, paradoxically, the repository of male honor “honor that is to be maintained through her obedience, virginity before marriage and faithful domestic servitude as a wife. It is contradictory that a culture that lays the burden of family honor on women, also barters them in marriage deals like objects to settle legal or other disputes.
Honor killings are also linked to rape since raped women are deemed to have dishonored their families by having been raped and are now liable to be killed. This perverse injustice is perpetuated by Islamic shariah law, which demands that a women alleging rape must produce four Muslim male witnesses (the testimony of non-Muslims is worthless under shariah). If the victim cannot produce the witnesses, she may stand accused of unlawful sex. Since a rape victim cannot possibly meet this cruel and farcical standard, she had better stay silent and pray no-one discovers she was raped.
There is another category of rape, almost beyond belief, that was brought to international attention by a Punjabi woman, Muktaran Bibi, in 2002. Muktaran's teenage brother was seen talking to a girl from a superior clan. Men from this clan took revenge by beating and raping the boy. Not satisfied, they eyed the boy's older, unmarried sister, Muktaran. The village council or " panchayat" gave the green light. Muktaran was summoned and taken into a locked room where she was gang-raped and then paraded. Class too played its part in this outrage. Muktaran was poor and powerless and, like a medieval serf, she was easy prey for her feudal superiors. It is also cruelly paradoxical that Muktaran was raped to restore male honor while thousands of other women are killed on mere suspicion of having sex.
Honor killings do not occur in an ideological vacuum. Certainly custom, patriarchy and feudalism are all responsible for the violence inflicted on Pakistani women. However, blame must also be laid at the feet of Islamic law, which implicitly provides the moral justification and thus the incitement to kill. Islamic law is bent on maintaining jurisdiction over honor killing and rape cases by treating them as religious issues outside secular law, which it regards as alien and subversive to Islam. The aim is simple “to keep women in perpetual fear and insecurity.
What then is the role of the Pakistani secular legal system in all this? On paper, Pakistan is committed to treating honor killings and rape as crimes. Pakistan is even a signatory to the 1993 UN Declaration of the Elimination of Violence against Women, which recognizes honor killings as violations of international human rights.
The problem is that the Pakistani government, its judiciary and police are not fully committed to enforcing their own secular criminal law. The ancient forces of religion and custom are entrenched and the state cannot or will not dislodge them for fear of social unrest or galvanizing the Islamists.
Regardless of the efforts of the brave journalists, lawyers and Pakistani women's groups who daily confront honor killings, the West also has a moral responsibility. Western writers, particularly liberals, are loathe to morally and critically evaluate the cultural and religious forces that incite violence against women for fear of charges of racism, cultural insensitivity and political incorrectness.
Meaningful western pressure cannot be achieved by deference to political correctness. The silence over the ideological roots of the violence only maintains it. For once, fear of hurting the cultural and religious sentiments of others, is disingenuous and cowardly.
Honor killings must be confronted by unyielding universal human rights that transcend cultures and faiths and that need no justification for their acceptance. This is not western cultural imperialism but rather values that belong to all peoples based on shared notions of innate human justice. This fight belongs above all to the left for it goes to the very roots of liberal humane ideals. Self-censorship and political correctness must not stand in the way.
Other articles:
Women's Rights
Veils
Women Worth Less than Men
Proving Rape
Wife-Beating
Divorce - Triple Talaq
Divorce - Remarriage
Men in Charge of Women
Adultery
Polygamy
Prostitution - Temporary Marriage
Homosexuality
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Support/TopMenu.htm
Links to Muslim and former Muslim sites:
http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/links.htm
Sean
QUOTE(MUM24/7 @ Mar 26 2007, 12:58 PM) [snapback]1599897[/snapback]
My husband's niece converted to Islam about 6 years ago....She was raised an Orthodox Christian.....As you can imagine, her family were horrified.....They thought that maybe she was going through a 'phase' or doing it to please her boyfriend (who is now her husband).......
But after all these years, she's still going strong in her faith and started wearing the Nicob (full covering) about 18 months ago....We always have talks with her about converting back or at least to take off the Nicob but she's adamant, this is what she wants to do for herself and Allah....
She studies the Koran and is raising her two sons in the best way she can, as Muslim men, while living in a westen world.......
I've come to the conclusion that she has found inner peace and an acceptance within her faith in Islam.....She's very happy and content and always tells me that indeed, the woman is treated/should be treated like a queen by her husband......
I think that non-Muslims have a problem with women's position in Islam and not Muslim women themselves.... That's just my view ofcourse.....
But after all these years, she's still going strong in her faith and started wearing the Nicob (full covering) about 18 months ago....We always have talks with her about converting back or at least to take off the Nicob but she's adamant, this is what she wants to do for herself and Allah....
She studies the Koran and is raising her two sons in the best way she can, as Muslim men, while living in a westen world.......
I've come to the conclusion that she has found inner peace and an acceptance within her faith in Islam.....She's very happy and content and always tells me that indeed, the woman is treated/should be treated like a queen by her husband......
I think that non-Muslims have a problem with women's position in Islam and not Muslim women themselves.... That's just my view ofcourse.....
Hi there Mum 24/7, I don't think converting back is generally an option once you become a Muslim.
The following is quoted from a source not my words:
Officially, Islamic law requires Muslims not to force Zimmis to embrace Islam. It is the duty of every Muslim, they hold, to manifest the virtues of Islam so that those who are non-Muslims will convert willingly after discovering its greatness and truth. Once a person becomes a Muslim, he cannot recant. If he does, he will be warned first, then he will be given three days to reconsider and repent. If he persists in his apostasy, his wife is required to divorce him, his property is confiscated, and his children are taken away from him. He is not allowed to remarry. Instead, he should be taken to court and sentenced to death. If he repents, he may return to his wife and children or remarry. According to the Hanifites an apostate female is not allowed to get married. She must spend time in meditation in order to return to Islam. If she does not repent or recant, she will not be sentenced to death, but she is to be persecuted, beaten and jailed until she dies. Other schools of Shari`a demand her death. The above punishment is prescribed in a Hadith recorded by the Bukhari: "It is reported by `Abaas ... that the messenger of Allah ... said, `Whosoever changes his religion (from Islam to any other faith), kill him."
This is from Rights of Non Muslims in an Islamic State, I know Australia is not an Islamic state (yet) but personally I find this quite scary. I feel that we are on the way to becoming one with more and more people becoming Muslim, a leading Mufti has urge all Muslim Australians to bear more children to Muslimize Australia - be alert, be alarmed.
QUOTE(muslim @ Mar 26 2007, 02:30 AM) [snapback]1599860[/snapback]
Hey everyone. This is an extremely detailed lecture about womans rights in Islam. Im not putting icing over the cake here, im not even saying there is a cake. I just think that since this is a topic of controversy, you should at least hear out what rights they do have instead of hearing what they dont have and this is the morally just thing to do. They are four lectures, each almost an hour. The link is of the first part and from their on the right side as Im sure most of you know you can move on to the scond, third, and lastly fourth part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1irxNIDrxwo
Keep in mind that woman are convertng to Islam twice as much as men. Western woman. So at least for those interested, esp woman, watch the lectures.
Tc all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1irxNIDrxwo
Keep in mind that woman are convertng to Islam twice as much as men. Western woman. So at least for those interested, esp woman, watch the lectures.
Tc all.
I must congratulate you on a very informative thread.
I have read posts where people have mentioned that most muslim men treat their wives as queens and this is correct in my observation.
1 of the reason for that is i feel is in a marriage if a husband is given certain rights a women is given certain rights at the same time as well.
An example for this is that as a man if you wanto follow real islamic principles in marriage one the things thats considered very important is.
"you are the person solely responsible for bringing food on the table and providing for your kids. period"
This doesnt mean the women role is to stay in the house or not work.
She can do any of these things if she chooses but again she doesnt have to. Plus you cannot as a husband force her to work or as an example on her not working as an excuse to get upset at her
However if you falter in your responsibility she can ask for a divorce its her right to do so.
This drastically differs in contrast to what you see in certain households in "modern" western societies
eg
Male A and Female B see each other at age 16 respectively in high school. Both of them are popular and are in the "in" crowd"
They have passionate love for months.
Male A gets tired or "bored" with Female B decides to get it on with Female C.
Female B also thinks its an oppurtunity to "experiment" with a different Male D
1-2 months in a relationship with Male D Female B realizes she is pregnant.
She gets genetic testing relaizes her babys dady is Male A.
Now both Male A and D want nothing to do with Female B.
Female B has to raise and look after the child herself. She has to work. She has to take care of the household.
She grows old gains some experience in life.
She has a hard time finding another male partner because of her "excess baggage"
Now if she is lucky she can settle in (marry) a Male E who may not be the best husband may earn many times less than Female B.
She now has to take care of herself, her child and a man who may just sit on his behind drinking beer all day.
Thats a common family scenario i have seen in certain areas of western world.
Someone can correct me if i am wrong.
QUOTE(weareallsuckers @ Mar 26 2007, 03:33 PM) [snapback]1600492[/snapback]
Hi there Mum 24/7, I don't think converting back is generally an option once you become a Muslim.
The following is quoted from a source not my words:
Officially, Islamic law requires Muslims not to force Zimmis to embrace Islam. It is the duty of every Muslim, they hold, to manifest the virtues of Islam so that those who are non-Muslims will convert willingly after discovering its greatness and truth. Once a person becomes a Muslim, he cannot recant. If he does, he will be warned first, then he will be given three days to reconsider and repent. If he persists in his apostasy, his wife is required to divorce him, his property is confiscated, and his children are taken away from him. He is not allowed to remarry. Instead, he should be taken to court and sentenced to death. If he repents, he may return to his wife and children or remarry. According to the Hanifites an apostate female is not allowed to get married. She must spend time in meditation in order to return to Islam. If she does not repent or recant, she will not be sentenced to death, but she is to be persecuted, beaten and jailed until she dies. Other schools of Shari`a demand her death. The above punishment is prescribed in a Hadith recorded by the Bukhari: "It is reported by `Abaas ... that the messenger of Allah ... said, `Whosoever changes his religion (from Islam to any other faith), kill him."
This is from Rights of Non Muslims in an Islamic State, I know Australia is not an Islamic state (yet) but personally I find this quite scary. I feel that we are on the way to becoming one with more and more people becoming Muslim, a leading Mufti has urge all Muslim Australians to bear more children to Muslimize Australia - be alert, be alarmed.
The following is quoted from a source not my words:
Officially, Islamic law requires Muslims not to force Zimmis to embrace Islam. It is the duty of every Muslim, they hold, to manifest the virtues of Islam so that those who are non-Muslims will convert willingly after discovering its greatness and truth. Once a person becomes a Muslim, he cannot recant. If he does, he will be warned first, then he will be given three days to reconsider and repent. If he persists in his apostasy, his wife is required to divorce him, his property is confiscated, and his children are taken away from him. He is not allowed to remarry. Instead, he should be taken to court and sentenced to death. If he repents, he may return to his wife and children or remarry. According to the Hanifites an apostate female is not allowed to get married. She must spend time in meditation in order to return to Islam. If she does not repent or recant, she will not be sentenced to death, but she is to be persecuted, beaten and jailed until she dies. Other schools of Shari`a demand her death. The above punishment is prescribed in a Hadith recorded by the Bukhari: "It is reported by `Abaas ... that the messenger of Allah ... said, `Whosoever changes his religion (from Islam to any other faith), kill him."
This is from Rights of Non Muslims in an Islamic State, I know Australia is not an Islamic state (yet) but personally I find this quite scary. I feel that we are on the way to becoming one with more and more people becoming Muslim, a leading Mufti has urge all Muslim Australians to bear more children to Muslimize Australia - be alert, be alarmed.
Thats what i call an example of misinformation leading to misunderstanding leading to xenophobia and islamophobia and eventually hatred of other you dont know much about. you should contact and speak to muslims in you community to get your story correct. To get correct information all you have to do is go to the source in this case "muslims".
QUOTE(weareallsuckers @ Mar 26 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]1600492[/snapback]
Hi there Mum 24/7, I don't think converting back is generally an option once you become a Muslim.
The following is quoted from a source not my words:
Officially, Islamic law requires Muslims not to force Zimmis to embrace Islam. It is the duty of every Muslim, they hold, to manifest the virtues of Islam so that those who are non-Muslims will convert willingly after discovering its greatness and truth. Once a person becomes a Muslim, he cannot recant. If he does, he will be warned first, then he will be given three days to reconsider and repent. If he persists in his apostasy, his wife is required to divorce him, his property is confiscated, and his children are taken away from him. He is not allowed to remarry. Instead, he should be taken to court and sentenced to death. If he repents, he may return to his wife and children or remarry. According to the Hanifites an apostate female is not allowed to get married. She must spend time in meditation in order to return to Islam. If she does not repent or recant, she will not be sentenced to death, but she is to be persecuted, beaten and jailed until she dies. Other schools of Shari`a demand her death. The above punishment is prescribed in a Hadith recorded by the Bukhari: "It is reported by `Abaas ... that the messenger of Allah ... said, `Whosoever changes his religion (from Islam to any other faith), kill him."
This is from Rights of Non Muslims in an Islamic State, I know Australia is not an Islamic state (yet) but personally I find this quite scary. I feel that we are on the way to becoming one with more and more people becoming Muslim, a leading Mufti has urge all Muslim Australians to bear more children to Muslimize Australia - be alert, be alarmed.
The following is quoted from a source not my words:
Officially, Islamic law requires Muslims not to force Zimmis to embrace Islam. It is the duty of every Muslim, they hold, to manifest the virtues of Islam so that those who are non-Muslims will convert willingly after discovering its greatness and truth. Once a person becomes a Muslim, he cannot recant. If he does, he will be warned first, then he will be given three days to reconsider and repent. If he persists in his apostasy, his wife is required to divorce him, his property is confiscated, and his children are taken away from him. He is not allowed to remarry. Instead, he should be taken to court and sentenced to death. If he repents, he may return to his wife and children or remarry. According to the Hanifites an apostate female is not allowed to get married. She must spend time in meditation in order to return to Islam. If she does not repent or recant, she will not be sentenced to death, but she is to be persecuted, beaten and jailed until she dies. Other schools of Shari`a demand her death. The above punishment is prescribed in a Hadith recorded by the Bukhari: "It is reported by `Abaas ... that the messenger of Allah ... said, `Whosoever changes his religion (from Islam to any other faith), kill him."
This is from Rights of Non Muslims in an Islamic State, I know Australia is not an Islamic state (yet) but personally I find this quite scary. I feel that we are on the way to becoming one with more and more people becoming Muslim, a leading Mufti has urge all Muslim Australians to bear more children to Muslimize Australia - be alert, be alarmed.
That is untrue, at least from what I have been taught so far. I will have to find a fatwa and post it. You can leave Islam and return at anytime, but of course it is looked down upon to leave. But I've never heard of such restrictions like that before.
QUOTE
How does an apostate come back to Islam?
Question:
If a muslim converts to another religion and later decides to come back to Islam, what is the process that he/she needs to go through inorder to return to Islam???? Is there a certain time period within which he/she can return to Islam?
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
If a person leaves Islam then decides to come back to it, what he has to do is to bear witness that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. If his apostasy was because he denied one of the basic principles of the religion, then his return to Islam cannot be complete until he affirms the principle that he had denied. There is no particular time period within which he can return to Islam; his repentance will be accepted until the point when the death-rattle sounds in his throat and his soul departs. If he is guided back to Islam within the time when it is possible (i.e., before death) and he performs as many of the Islamic duties as he can, then he is a Muslim.
Shaykh ‘Abd al-Kareem al-Khudayr
Question:
If a muslim converts to another religion and later decides to come back to Islam, what is the process that he/she needs to go through inorder to return to Islam???? Is there a certain time period within which he/she can return to Islam?
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
If a person leaves Islam then decides to come back to it, what he has to do is to bear witness that there is no god except Allaah and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. If his apostasy was because he denied one of the basic principles of the religion, then his return to Islam cannot be complete until he affirms the principle that he had denied. There is no particular time period within which he can return to Islam; his repentance will be accepted until the point when the death-rattle sounds in his throat and his soul departs. If he is guided back to Islam within the time when it is possible (i.e., before death) and he performs as many of the Islamic duties as he can, then he is a Muslim.
Shaykh ‘Abd al-Kareem al-Khudayr
QUOTE(muslim @ Mar 26 2007, 03:30 AM) [snapback]1599860[/snapback]
[Keep in mind that woman are convertng to Islam twice as much as men. Western woman. So at least for those interested, esp woman, watch the lectures.
Tc all.
Tc all.
Hi Muslim...I haven't got time to watch the lectures right now (and they may prove me wrong)...but do you think that a lot of Western women are converting to Islam because they fall in love with muslim men, and if they want to marry them they must convert.
I think that muslim men are allowed to marry women outside their religion but that woman must convert. But muslim women are not allowed to marry men that are not muslims......???
QUOTE
Hi Muslim...I haven't got time to watch the lectures right now (and they may prove me wrong)...but do you think that a lot of Western women are converting to Islam because they fall in love with muslim men, and if they want to marry them they must convert.
Thats not right because she doesnt have to convert to Islam in order to get married to a Muslim.
QUOTE
I think that muslim men are allowed to marry women outside their religion but that woman must convert. But muslim women are not allowed to marry men that are not muslims......???
That is true and not true. A Muslim man is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman as long as she is of the people of the book, i.e a Jewish lady or a Christian lady. If she isnt anything else, pagan etc, then it isnt allowed. However a Muslim lady is not allowed to marry any other then a Muslim man and that is because the Muslim man when he marries a Christian or Jewish lady he already believes in he who they believe in i.e Jesus Christ and or Moses peace be upon them, but if a Muslim woman marries a non Muslims, he doesnt believe in who she believes in so it isnt allowed.
Btw guys, Empress star means by she reverted is converted. We believe that everyone is born a Muslim by the definition of the word, one who surrenders his or her will to God so if you become a Muslim it means reverted. Not that she was a practising Muslim before. Just wanted to clear that part up. So if anyone converts to Islam he doesnt say I converted he says I reverted.
And as for Seans artice, if a woman is rapped and can not produce four witnesses since we are living in 2007 nowadays tests are made which Im sure can help show if the guy truly rapped her and there are other steps which help to punish the criminal. The opposite is also true, if a guy wants to accuse a woman of commiting adultry he too has to bring four witnesses and if he doesnt he is punished. I'll try to find a detailed article about the way a trial takes place if a woman accuses a guy he rapped her Sean and post it if I found it.
Up in Quebec, there was a town that made an official proclimation that women are equal to men and that men don't have the right to beat women, which pissed off a lot of people who considered it racist; a group of muslim women even ventured to the town to "educate" the people there about islam.
QUOTE(Mainpoint @ Mar 27 2007, 02:53 AM) [snapback]1600585[/snapback]
Thats what i call an example of misinformation leading to misunderstanding leading to xenophobia and islamophobia and eventually hatred of other you dont know much about. you should contact and speak to muslims in you community to get your story correct. To get correct information all you have to do is go to the source in this case "muslims".
Well maybe you should take it up with the writer of the website that I quoted from, he sounded very knowledgable on the subject actually. As a disbeliever and someone who will never 'revert' I am going to rot in an unthinkable hell apparently. Why would I wish to converse with people who think this is what I deserve? But thanks for the advice.
Now just in case anyone thinks I am uninformed about this here is some quotes from the Koran:
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
But I will get back on topic and do agree that Muslim women do seem to enjoy fabourable women's rights and I also agree the divorce process is fair and a good idea, particularly in todays world. I also agree that it a Western worlds biased view that women are seen as downtrodden, veil hidden slaves of men who are allowed many wives and the women are beaten into submission. I know this is not a correct interpretation nor is what the Koran sees as acceptable. A Mufti here in Australia recently made comment about how our Aussie women were asking to be raped because of their dress codes and it caused an uproar. He challenged our culture to dress freely and made many women feel responsible for rape crimes. He is here in Australia, not in an Islamic country and to be making comments as those is disrespectful to our culture and women. France had enough of this type of behaviour from Muslims recently also as you may have heard in the news. Muslim people in non-Muslin countries need to respect others cultures and beliefs as they expect to be respected.
QUOTE(muslim @ Mar 27 2007, 12:00 AM) [snapback]1600976[/snapback]
Thats not right because she doesnt have to convert to Islam in order to get married to a Muslim.
That is true and not true. A Muslim man is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman as long as she is of the people of the book, i.e a Jewish lady or a Christian lady. If she isnt anything else, pagan etc, then it isnt allowed. However a Muslim lady is not allowed to marry any other then a Muslim man and that is because the Muslim man when he marries a Christian or Jewish lady he already believes in he who they believe in i.e Jesus Christ and or Moses peace be upon them, but if a Muslim woman marries a non Muslims, he doesnt believe in who she believes in so it isnt allowed.
Btw guys, Empress star means by she reverted is converted. We believe that everyone is born a Muslim by the definition of the word, one who surrenders his or her will to God so if you become a Muslim it means reverted. Not that she was a practising Muslim before. Just wanted to clear that part up. So if anyone converts to Islam he doesnt say I converted he says I reverted.
And as for Seans artice, if a woman is rapped and can not produce four witnesses since we are living in 2007 nowadays tests are made which Im sure can help show if the guy truly rapped her and there are other steps which help to punish the criminal. The opposite is also true, if a guy wants to accuse a woman of commiting adultry he too has to bring four witnesses and if he doesnt he is punished. I'll try to find a detailed article about the way a trial takes place if a woman accuses a guy he rapped her Sean and post it if I found it.
That is true and not true. A Muslim man is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman as long as she is of the people of the book, i.e a Jewish lady or a Christian lady. If she isnt anything else, pagan etc, then it isnt allowed. However a Muslim lady is not allowed to marry any other then a Muslim man and that is because the Muslim man when he marries a Christian or Jewish lady he already believes in he who they believe in i.e Jesus Christ and or Moses peace be upon them, but if a Muslim woman marries a non Muslims, he doesnt believe in who she believes in so it isnt allowed.
Btw guys, Empress star means by she reverted is converted. We believe that everyone is born a Muslim by the definition of the word, one who surrenders his or her will to God so if you become a Muslim it means reverted. Not that she was a practising Muslim before. Just wanted to clear that part up. So if anyone converts to Islam he doesnt say I converted he says I reverted.
And as for Seans artice, if a woman is rapped and can not produce four witnesses since we are living in 2007 nowadays tests are made which Im sure can help show if the guy truly rapped her and there are other steps which help to punish the criminal. The opposite is also true, if a guy wants to accuse a woman of commiting adultry he too has to bring four witnesses and if he doesnt he is punished. I'll try to find a detailed article about the way a trial takes place if a woman accuses a guy he rapped her Sean and post it if I found it.
I would like to know where in the Koran the rule about 4 withnesess are written? I read most of the book when I studied and I do not remember ANYTHING like this. And I also know that you cannot pull the "its 2007" card because the Koran is perfect and one cannot alter what is written in it if one is a reverted (believing muslim). I remember this particular book very well because I found is so... well it doesn't matter what my opinion about it is I would like quotes *smiles patiently*
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Mar 25 2007, 11:09 PM) [snapback]1600071[/snapback]
I've deleted the last few posts in this thread due to their inflammatory content. Moondoggy - if you can't reasonably discuss this topic, then perhaps you should consider not posting at all. Remember, this is the Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs board. For skeptic-vs-believer debates, head over to the Spirituality vs Skepticism board and do so over there.
~ PA
~ PA
Sure thing PA. But this thread is about the RIGHTS of muslim women and not their FAITH. I have seen it first hand over there and feel it is my right to post what I have seen.
I know a few Muslim women and they are very happy. Some of them cover their head but only if they want to, they are in no way forced to do it. They are indeed treated well by their husbands.
The thing is, some christian men will treat their wives badly, some will treat them well. Some pagan men will beat their wives, some will not. Do you see where I'm going with this? There are bad and good relationships in all faiths, it comes down to the people in each individual relationship. The people that think muslim women always get it bad need to get out more and stop watching so much tv.
I find it funny when some men express their distaste for the way muslim women dress and then in the next breath they will call a woman a **** or some other repulsive name for wearing skimpy clothes. Just goes to show some people are never happy, and they really aren't worth worrying about.
At the end of the day, some people are just ignorant, and spout this anti islamic nonsense when they haven't spent 5 minutes with a muslim. They don't know what they're talking about.
I pity those people with their small little minds.
The thing is, some christian men will treat their wives badly, some will treat them well. Some pagan men will beat their wives, some will not. Do you see where I'm going with this? There are bad and good relationships in all faiths, it comes down to the people in each individual relationship. The people that think muslim women always get it bad need to get out more and stop watching so much tv.
I find it funny when some men express their distaste for the way muslim women dress and then in the next breath they will call a woman a **** or some other repulsive name for wearing skimpy clothes.
Just goes to show some people are never happy, and they really aren't worth worrying about. At the end of the day, some people are just ignorant, and spout this anti islamic nonsense when they haven't spent 5 minutes with a muslim. They don't know what they're talking about.
I pity those people with their small little minds.
QUOTE(EmpressStarXVII @ Mar 26 2007, 05:12 AM) [snapback]1600198[/snapback]
here is a million bazillion sites about women in Islam.
I reverted to Islam only about a week ago, but I had been considering for a few months now. My problem was the whole womens rights thing, because I also consider myself a feminist. I believed a lot of the misconceptions about women in Islam until I stopped being lazy and started reading things on my own. If I felt Islam in some way regarded women as second class citizens, I wouldn't have reverted.
Islam - Elevation of women status
The Distorted Image of Muslim Women
The status of Women in Islam
The First and Last link are only if you really have a lot of time to read on it, big articles. But the second one though is quite short and to the point.
I reverted to Islam only about a week ago
, but I had been considering for a few months now. My problem was the whole womens rights thing, because I also consider myself a feminist. I believed a lot of the misconceptions about women in Islam until I stopped being lazy and started reading things on my own. If I felt Islam in some way regarded women as second class citizens, I wouldn't have reverted.Islam - Elevation of women status
The Distorted Image of Muslim Women
The status of Women in Islam
The First and Last link are only if you really have a lot of time to read on it, big articles. But the second one though is quite short and to the point
.You also live in the US. Go live in the Middle east for awhile and see how muslim women are treated. Forced marriages, punishing a woman for being raped, etc. It might change your mind.
QUOTE(StoneAgeQueen @ Mar 27 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]1601983[/snapback]
I pity those people with their small little minds.
Then I will take your pity. I would die before letting my daughter be brought up as a child in the middle east as a muslim.
*edit- left out that it refers to childhood*
QUOTE(ericraven2003 @ Mar 27 2007, 03:40 PM) [snapback]1601999[/snapback]
Then I will take your pity. I would die before letting my daughter be brought in middle east as a muslim.
thats what i call extremism and fundamentalism leading to terrorism
QUOTE(Mainpoint @ Mar 27 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]1602021[/snapback]
thats what i call extremism and fundamentalism leading to terrorism
Considering I am a agnostic. That would be hard. I believe all religion is dangerous. Muslim is just worse than most.
QUOTE(muslim @ Mar 26 2007, 11:00 PM) [snapback]1600976[/snapback]
[That is true and not true. A Muslim man is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman as long as she is of the people of the book, i.e a Jewish lady or a Christian lady. If she isnt anything else, pagan etc, then it isnt allowed. However a Muslim lady is not allowed to marry any other then a Muslim man and that is because the Muslim man when he marries a Christian or Jewish lady he already believes in he who they believe in i.e Jesus Christ and or Moses peace be upon them, but if a Muslim woman marries a non Muslims, he doesnt believe in who she believes in so it isnt allowed.
Thanks for responding.
A few white/British women in the town where I live have converted (I presume) as they go around in traditional muslim dress. These women I expect, then, from your reply were not Jewish or Christian...so to marry the man they fell in love with they were required to convert to Islam.
Why can't a muslim woman marry a Jew or a Christian? If a muslim man can marry a Jew or a Christian?
I think that the different 'rules' regarding marriage for women and men is an example of female repression.
I thought that it was worth mentioning that Discovery Times Channel is rerunning two of Sharmeen Obiad's documentaries today. Including Women of the Holy Kingdom and Terrors Children. Both are excellent and worth watching.
QUOTE
You also live in the US. Go live in the Middle east for awhile and see how muslim women are treated. Forced marriages, punishing a woman for being raped, etc. It might change your mind.
Sure that might happen however it isnt from Islam. It has nothing to do wth religion, its cultural and its WRONG.
QUOTE
Then I will take your pity. I would die before letting my daughter be brought up as a child in the middle east as a muslim.
Thats because yu know nothing about the religion.
QUOTE
Thanks for responding.
anytime.
QUOTE
A few white/British women in the town where I live have converted (I presume) as they go around in traditional muslim dress. These women I expect, then, from your reply were not Jewish or Christian...so to marry the man they fell in love with they were required to convert to Islam.
how do u know they werent christian or jewish? Why dont you ask them the next time you see them? Im sure they wont blow themselves up
QUOTE
Why can't a muslim woman marry a Jew or a Christian? If a muslim man can marry a Jew or a Christian?
I answered that just read my reply again.
QUOTE
I think that the different 'rules' regarding marriage for women and men is an example of female repression.
No it isnt. I gave u an explanation at my reply. A male isnt allowed to marry a woman if she isnt Muslim Christian or Jewish, is that male opression?
QUOTE
I would like to know where in the Koran the rule about 4 withnesess are written? I read most of the book when I studied and I do not remember ANYTHING like this. And I also know that you cannot pull the "its 2007" card because the Koran is perfect and one cannot alter what is written in it if one is a reverted (believing muslim). I remember this particular book very well because I found is so... well it doesn't matter what my opinion about it is I would like quotes *smiles patiently*
Yes I will give u the "its 2007" card because Islam also goes along with science and we have to take advantage of modern day discoveries. As for teh quote, 024.004
And those who launch a charge against chaste women, and produce not four witnesses (to support their allegations),- flog them with eighty stripes; and reject their evidence ever after: for such men are wicked transgressors;-
*smiles back*
QUOTE
Now just in case anyone thinks I am uninformed about this here is some quotes from the Koran:
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34)
"When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17)
"In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37)
maaan i hate it when someone does that because they never bother to read the verses before and after the verses they copy paste.
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:4)
Firstly jihad does NOT MEAN HOLLY WAR. Secondly, this verse is speaking about war that in the middle of the war you should fight. This verse was revealed prior to the battle of badr and it was after almost 12 years of the Muslims being opressed by the Arab pagansthat here they got permission to fight back. The Quran clearly states do not transgress for Allah does not love transgressors, so Muslims are allowed to fight for SELF DEFENCE my friend. If ur going to quote the Quran just have the common curtosy to at least try to read it someday.
STonAgeQueen you are so right. Muslim woman dress the way they do because its modesty. That a womans beauty isnt her physical beauty but instead her inner beauty. Many people nowadays only care about the outer beauty. Islam says that you should care for ur heart before ur body. Muslim men have to dress modestly too and thats why they grow the beard while the womans covers her hair with the hijab or scarf. Its so that when a woman walks down the street she isnt looked at as an object for the guy whos staring at hers visual pleasure. Look at the media today and the commercials we see some woman in, its so degrading to woman. Its making her seem like an object and only that for our mere shallow sexual pleasure and thats wrong. People have obssesed with looks nowadays and their outer beauty that theyve forgotten about what matters most and thats their inner beauty. When u get married to someone u marry their heart not looks cause looks will go away eventually. People have forgotten about that.
QUOTE(ericraven2003 @ Mar 27 2007, 04:37 PM) [snapback]1601995[/snapback]
You also live in the US. Go live in the Middle east for awhile and see how muslim women are treated. Forced marriages, punishing a woman for being raped, etc. It might change your mind.
Those are the countries, NOT the religion.
I suppose it's too much to ask if any of the anti Islamists have visited Tunisia? Or haven't you been out of your countries
QUOTE(muslim @ Mar 27 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]1602579[/snapback]
STonAgeQueen you are so right. Muslim woman dress the way they do because its modesty. That a womans beauty isnt her physical beauty but instead her inner beauty. Many people nowadays only care about the outer beauty. Islam says that you should care for ur heart before ur body. Muslim men have to dress modestly too and thats why they grow the beard while the womans covers her hair with the hijab or scarf. Its so that when a woman walks down the street she isnt looked at as an object for the guy whos staring at hers visual pleasure. Look at the media today and the commercials we see some woman in, its so degrading to woman. Its making her seem like an object and only that for our mere shallow sexual pleasure and thats wrong. People have obssesed with looks nowadays and their outer beauty that theyve forgotten about what matters most and thats their inner beauty. When u get married to someone u marry their heart not looks cause looks will go away eventually. People have forgotten about that.
I totally agree. People, and women in particular are judged on their looks today. People are obsessed with looking good, losing weight, staying young etc. it's so shallow.
Here is a video that I made for a project in school. As a former Muslim woman I find the stereotypes nauseating.
Western women LOVE the idea of the oppressed Muslim women because it makes it easier to swallow the fact that we are entirely sexualized in this country and not valued for our intellect or character but truly for what we look like.
That's why Paris Hilton gets more play these days than Meryl Streep.
Here's my video which I will remove later. Some of the women asked me to alter the pictures so they weren't outright photographs.
You need sound as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NLtLQMl3wk
QUOTE(StoneAgeQueen @ Mar 27 2007, 05:04 PM) [snapback]1602588[/snapback]
Those are the countries, NOT the religion.
I suppose it's too much to ask if any of the anti Islamists have visited Tunisia? Or haven't you been out of your countries
I suppose it's too much to ask if any of the anti Islamists have visited Tunisia? Or haven't you been out of your countries
Actually,I equally dislike most religions.I am agnostic myself. For the most part they bring us nothing but war, death, and oppression. About the only exception, may be budism.
I travel alot, but just to fun places like the Caribbean.
QUOTE(ericraven2003 @ Mar 27 2007, 04:40 PM) [snapback]1601999[/snapback]
Then I will take your pity. I would die before letting my daughter be brought up as a child in the middle east as a muslim.
*edit- left out that it refers to childhood*
*edit- left out that it refers to childhood*
Why would you want to (or not) bring your child up in the middle east?
What's that got to do with it?
QUOTE(ericraven2003 @ Mar 27 2007, 11:12 PM) [snapback]1602597[/snapback]
Actually,I equally dislike most religions.I am agnostic myself. For the most part they bring us nothing but war, death, and oppression. About the only exception, may be budism.
I travel alot, but just to fun places like the Caribbean.
I travel alot, but just to fun places like the Caribbean.
LOL and Tunisia isn't fun, no? Why's that, because it's a muslim country? I have news for you Eric, Tunisia is like any country in the west, apart from the fact it's a lot poorer. They are free to do whatever they want there.. They dress like us, are free to drink if they want (though most don't) NO difference WHATSOEVER!!! They are not oppressed at all! And Tunisia is in Africa for anyone that thinks all Muslim countries are in the middle east.,
QUOTE(muslim @ Mar 26 2007, 11:00 PM) [snapback]1600976[/snapback]
[A Muslim man is allowed to marry a non Muslim woman as long as she is of the people of the book, i.e a Jewish lady or a Christian lady. If she isnt anything else, pagan etc, then it isnt allowed. However a Muslim lady is not allowed to marry any other then a Muslim man and that is because the Muslim man when he marries a Christian or Jewish lady he already believes in he who they believe in i.e Jesus Christ and or Moses peace be upon them, but if a Muslim woman marries a non Muslims, he doesnt believe in who she believes in so it isnt allowed.
I'm going to try and pin this down again, because there is a flaw in your arguement/logic.
A muslim man can marry a Jew or a Christian (or someone who converts). Because Jew, Christian (and Muslim) women are considered to be 'people of the book'.
A Muslim woman cannot marry a Jew or a Christian MAN because, presumably THEY are not considered 'people of the book'.
Surely 'people of the book' are both female and male....so why is there a different rule for who muslim men and women can marry?
QUOTE(StoneAgeQueen @ Mar 27 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]1602600[/snapback]
LOL and Tunisia isn't fun, no? 
Why's that, because it's a muslim country?
Why's that, because it's a muslim country?No I just love the beautiful sand and blue water in the Caribbean. Also,the margaritas and beautiful women. *ohhhh margaritas* Sorry, back to topic.
QUOTE(ericraven2003 @ Mar 27 2007, 11:18 PM) [snapback]1602606[/snapback]
No I just love the beautiful sand and blue water in the Caribbean. Also,the margaritas and beautiful women. *ohhhh margaritas* Sorry, back to topic.
You'll find all of those in Tunisia too
QUOTE(bee @ Mar 27 2007, 10:17 PM) [snapback]1602603[/snapback]
I'm going to try and pin this down again, because there is a flaw in your arguement/logic.
A muslim man can marry a Jew or a Christian (or someone who converts). Because Jew, Christian (and Muslim) women are considered to be 'people of the book'.
A Muslim woman cannot marry a Jew or a Christian MAN because, presumably THEY are not considered 'people of the book'.
Surely 'people of the book' are both female and male....so why is there a different rule for who muslim men and women can marry?
A muslim man can marry a Jew or a Christian (or someone who converts). Because Jew, Christian (and Muslim) women are considered to be 'people of the book'.
A Muslim woman cannot marry a Jew or a Christian MAN because, presumably THEY are not considered 'people of the book'.
Surely 'people of the book' are both female and male....so why is there a different rule for who muslim men and women can marry?
Because of their children. They want the children raised as Muslims. A Jewish man is not likely to agree to raise his child Muslim for the sake of his wife. Back then the men had the authority in ALL the religions.
And while this is tossed around as a bit of evidence of Muslim male domination, you need to consider that a Jew couldn't marry outside their religion at all. Neither could a Christian at the time so this is actually considered PROGRESS.
It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
Quran: 60:7-8
So u see that verse you quoted was reffering to the battle itself and those who fight the Muslims themselves.
Thats right. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to look nice and working on achieving that its just that the priorities and standards have shifted. We should care about who we are first and the beauty of our inner self first since thats what truly matters in the end and thats what stays with us and defies who we are as people
Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
Quran: 60:7-8
So u see that verse you quoted was reffering to the battle itself and those who fight the Muslims themselves.
QUOTE
I totally agree. People, and women in particular are judged on their looks today. People are obsessed with looking good, losing weight, staying young etc. it's so shallow.
Thats right. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to look nice and working on achieving that its just that the priorities and standards have shifted. We should care about who we are first and the beauty of our inner self first since thats what truly matters in the end and thats what stays with us and defies who we are as people
QUOTE(StoneAgeQueen @ Mar 27 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]1602599[/snapback]
Why would you want to (or not) bring your child up in the middle east? What's that got to do with it?
What's that got to do with it?I just would not want my child to grow up anywhere the majority that lived there were one strict religion.BUT, if a country produced such a beauty as you, then it can't be all bad.
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