You'll want a cup of coffee for this one...

Top Secrets, NDP and Security Protocols: Revealing Alien/UFO “TOP SECRETS”

I have a feeling this will be a very short lived thread, which is fine.

This is NOT about Bob Lazar specific.
It is about what he others like him present to the public. It’s just Bob Lazar has made himself such a great example that is so easily seen, where other’s are just one or two ‘issues’, at the most.

This deals w/the stories of so called “whistle blowers – of Classified Top Secret Security Zones” and people that tell you, they have high security clearances to places like: Area 51, Wright Patterson, NSA, CIA, NASA and even the military: IF they start telling you about “TOP SECRETS” – well read this and tell me why you would believe them after this.

I have begun to seriously wonder if most people on UM have a real understanding of Real World Security Protocols? Right now I am being led to believe: NO.

What brought this up again w/me is our renewal w/the local school district as a “Safe House”.
This is where kids going or coming to/from school, if feel threatened see the safe house sign and know they can come here.

This involves no small FBI background check. But w/my other background checks – this is a “piece of cake”. But when the agent came and reviewed our application stated, ‘well no problem here. You passed w/flying colors.’, which I told him, “I had no questions or doubts of this, since we’ve been a safe house for almost 20 yrs now…”

But then I started to ask him about the Security Protocols and NDP’s and such that he had to go through. I explained what I was talking about and he just laughed. Yes, he was familiar w/the “Robert Lazar ‘legend’ and it is a joke.” He even agreed that the ID badge is 100% fake, because, “Yes it would be seriously against the law to post such ID badges on the internet.” Which as I have posted, I already guessed and pretty much knew and understood.

So I had to wonder how many understand the serious background checks that go on?

These background checks; depending on what you are getting access too is not just, “did you live at 123 45th St. NW, Anytown, USA 12345.”

Depending on what level of security you are in, will depend on how far back they will go and what they will look into.

I recently had the CIA at my door about a friend of mine. They were doing a background check. They asked all sorts of questions, even intimate ones about him. My answers were digitally recorded and they even went into my background since I was a close friend of his. They asked every question you could imagine from drinking habits, sexual habits, eating habits, drug habits, known medical conditions, to about his other friends even those that were casual friends. What groups he was in while in Jr. and Sr. High School and college. Teachers that we shared in school to well you get the idea.

They check your medical background, your mental background and current state. Your life is turned inside out; they will find things about you that likely you didn’t even know or just honestly forgot or wished to forget.

Then you have to go through no small series of Psych tests and physicals. Included in this is The Lie Detector Tests (plural) – as in many of them, with questions phrased differently, shot out at different times to throw you off to trip you on purpose. They are TRYING to catch you in any lies they can. This is not fun and can be a “little” upsetting as well. Especially when they throw stuff out that are close to the truth about an “event” or just twisted enough to make it sort of true.

Then the NDP’s come.
Believe it or not you are NOT just given high security clearance – YOU EARN THEM! You have to prove yourself over a long time. Not in only 5 days. No one would be given “Alien UFO clearance” after only or during 5 days of work. It simply does NOT work that way. To think that it does is, well this is so NOT the real world!

These NDP (Non Disclosure Pacts) cover everything you are exposed to and what will happen to you, your family, friends and co-workers. This is no legal document that one can just ‘have a change of heart over’, ‘change of heart’ is NOT an option.

I found it funny, as did the FBI agent, that these telephone interviews where people, “fear for their lives” in talking about what they are – as he said, “they wouldn’t finish the sentence, the phone line would be terminated mid stream.” Yes they would/could do that with no issues or question marks. It is done and you would NEVER see or hear from that person again. The fact they continue the dialog and even do follow-up dialogs is strong evidence right there that that is total BS they are feeding you and the other listeners. There is just no way that someone would get ‘that far in the security zone’ and suddenly have a ‘change of heart’ – this is ‘screened and watched for’ BEFORE they get there. They know what to look for and to watch for. It shows long before they get to the interview.

The thing is that other co-workers are actually watching for the ‘signs’ and are told to report any questions that they may have about a fellow co-worker. They are to watch out for “change of heart” tone in voice, key words and phrases and mood swings and disgruntled and the likes.

They even have in-house Doctor’s – both MD’s and Psych doctors that run periodic checks on all employees who deal w/various high level security areas.

I know for certain the FBI and CIA do have this built into their system.

Now we get to the challenge of “Taking Stuff” from Area 51 and other security zones.

These zone depending on the Security Protocols, allows NO ONE to drive to work. Everyone flies to work on the company jet. Area 51 is likely the more strict when it comes security.
You are NOT allowed: -(NO EXCEPTIONS)-
… Cell Phones
… PDA’s
… Laptops
… CD Players
… MP3 Players
… Pens
Anything that could/can be used to smuggle simply isn’t allowed – PERIOD – No Exceptions.

Your ID badge is ALWAYS on campus – IT NEVER LEAVES, period, NO exceptions for anyone. So again for the supposed Bob Lazar ID badge – the fact that this is still online – proves its 100% fake. Nothing more and likely a whole lot less.

I even know a few Banks, Computer Software Design Corp, and Medical Labs where this will get you FIRED on the spot if you leave w/your security badge. As will the Security Guard that let you get by.

These badges are SECURITY BADGES, so think about that for 30 seconds.
How secure would they be if they left the campus?
Especially if you stop to think what they are supposedly suppose to have access too! Common sense here people, think about this – would you allow badges to be taken off campus if you were in charge of High Risk – Top Secret Security Zones? NO! Not even a remote chance, would you allow this. This is just simple common sense, it’s not Rocket Science.

So when “they” start telling you about their TOP SECRETS – is there reasons to doubt their stories – YES, 100% good sound common sense reasoning to doubt their claims.

I'm just goin to say this. Yes Jj, that is correct. Disclosing Top Secret information like that would be shut down faster than you can say Bob Lazer.

This will only lead to the conspiracy theorists saying that they are letting leaks out, and discrediting Lazar to discredit believers, blah blah. I'll tell you what though, your info is pretty standard stuff, and seems accurate. It's so different though for every different circumstance, and depends on what you will be exposed to and working with. YOUR top-secret interview could be worlds apart from MY top-secret interview, based on the subject matter and so many different factors.

Your assessment of Lazar even being ALIVE at this point dead on. He would have never gotten away with what he claimed if he was the real deal. If I'm wrong, then the government needs to hire ME as a security consultant to fix the GAPING holes Lazar has wandered through.

whenever you have one of these 'whistleblowers' it's important to look into their background to see how much of their story checks out. It also helps if you can retrieve documents through FOIA that may verify details of the persons story that were previously unknown.

I prefer to not focus on the conspiracy aspects of UFOlogy, I know conspiracies are invented as a way to explain why things don't seem to be the way you expect them to. While there is no doubt that UFO-related information gets classified, I'm not convinced that the cover-up is as deep as some believe. (i.e. they may or may not have all those crashed saucers, reverse engineered, captured EBEs etc. They may just want to keep a lid on for national security reasons)

But for some reason, when someone comes forward and purports to have damning insider information, many people seem to automatically believe. That doesn't just apply to the UFO fields, but anything (industry, politics, etc).

Jj,

I couldn't agree more. There's normally a reason for the strict security required (UFOs or other areas) and after going through rigorous background check, as you outlined, the Government certainly would not let somebody like that just wonder off and tell his story to the public afterwards, just because he felt the public should know; at least not with serious repercussions.

Best,
Badeskov

That never stopped Sandy Berger from walking off with classified papers!



In regards to govenment witnesses, it is just a matter of going through other files in order to verify their testimony.

Yeah, but that was just an "accident" Sensitive papers falling into one's pants, could happen to anyone!

I wonder what size socks he wears?

Perhaps, socks are not allowed at Area 51 because anything can accidently fall into the socks of workers there, like an alien body.

I think these fell out of someone's pockets.

http://brumac.8k.com/kirtland1.html

http://www.nicap.org/murocdoc.htm

Wikipeidia: National Archives


Umm- Sky, this is so not Area 51, Wright Patterson or Fort Knox or NSA, CIA, FBI and so on. So we are not even comparing "apples w/apples." Please at least let's stay in the same Security Zone Level."

JJ, I couldn't agree with you more. If anything, knowing how the military mind, and the intelligence mind work, it seems much more likely that these "Whistleblowers" are actually carrying out counterintelligence operations.

Were you aware that the San Francisco Chronicle reported the National Archives was releasing declassified government UFO files? Were you also aware that the websites of the NSA, CIA, FBI, and the Department of Defense contain UFO files? The following document can be found at the website of the Department of Defense and it was this same document that was declared a fake a few days ago by a UFO debunker who had no idea what he was talking about.

http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/ufo/dep_ba1.pdf

lets be honost if lazar was real he would have got hit by a car...like john mack....

Wow, that's actually kind of scarey. If Mr. Lazar just waltzed through any security measures...who else might have done the same? Hopefully we're doing a bit better than this.



Err...are you aware of just how many people are hit/killed by cars? It's really not uncommon at all. To die in this manner is not at all suspicious. My own Grandfather was struck and killed by a car while crossing the street.

That's nothing compared to what this guy had done to national security.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,957749,00.html

Well, if you wanted to eliminate someone without raising suspicions, would you use a gun? Or would you use a means that "is not at all suspicious"?

good point...mack was at the height of his research at harvard when run down....

Somebody keeps dropping files on the streets.

keep finding this stuff sky..I think soon the whole truths coming out....

And so?? UFO's are UN-Identified Flying Objects. Most likely (I"ve not seen the files yet) well be generic and/or blacked out. So this has what to do w/the OP??

This is true and I've addressed this in other threads - that the variables would be and depend on what security level is and what you have access too.
As you more than likely know - again the point being: Security Levels are EARNED - not just given over a period of a few days or a month.


I fail to see how some do not see and understand the COMMON SENSE of Security Protocols and the like.

If we do find they are lacking - we could start our own Security Protocol Consulting Firm!

We can get into details in order to exclude all conventional aircraft.

Sky - this has NOTHING to do w/the OP TOPIC. The files you are showing have NOTHING to do w/the topic on hand.

So I will ask: With the OP, do you have anything to add or give in that focal point??

Jj -

How do you know what aircrafts are who's Sky? If all this stuff is classified then you wouldn't know.
Because simply put you are only being told what they want you to know.

I know enough that if they fly in certain zones, they are not classified aircraft of the military and I have almost forty years working for the Air Force to know what I am talking about.

I want to add that just because someone possess a top secret clearance, doesn't guarantee that person is not going to reveal what he knows. History has shown that to be true.

Moro - Please let's try to stay on topic here... Thanks bud!!

So we are just supposed to just accept you're 40 years of knowledge and let it be? How are we supposed to know that you are just not counter intelligence
steering this thread away from the original topic? I'm not saying you are i'm only pointing out what you are doing.


~Moro

You're damn right he wouldn't. He would have been shot on sight.

Yes!!

Ok, fine - now can you PLEASE get back on topic... Thank You -

Sky -
Wow - I'm not even sure where to begin on this thought. First of CIA - NSA - FBI - Area 51 and so on have all LEARNED from past mistakes. That is why they (even companies I work for) refine the Security Protocols to meet those 'issues' of the past. Did you know the US-M.I.B. are actually fashioned after the German SS?? We learned a lot from them - that is actually in effect even in 2007 - though much more refined.

Plus think about this - someone works their whole carrier to build up to being trusted and accountable - then they just decide w/ALL the legal documents and Security Protocols to just one day - TRASH IT!?? Those are the very seriously rare and extreme exceptions. Today the protocols are in place to avoid as is possible those 'rare exceptions to the rules'. We know they are there and we work w/that knowledge to stop it from happening.

Quit living in the past - dude. This is NOT the 40's, 50's, 60's or even 80's or 90's - Believe it or not people actually learn and grow - especially in the Security Protocols.

Go through the OP and tell me what doesn't make any sense to you - or what is OTL (Out To Lunch), please....

Let me ask you a straight forward question - would you violate a trust that was given to you, especially since it WOULD cost not just you but your family, children, in-laws, sibblings, friends and co-workers. Would you willingly screw up their lives and violate a trust?

Jj -

We have learned a lot from the Germans. After all, they were instrumental in providing assistance in developing chemical rockets to get us to the moon.



And, the Air Force is still taking its security hits each year!



I wouldn't, but apparently, there are those who have participated in the Disclosure project who felt compelled to reveal what they know about UFOs in public. An example was an FAA official who revealed documents the CIA didn't know existed, which involved the JAL encounter over Alaska in 1986. The CIA thought that it had grabbed all of the evidence relating to that incident but a fast-thinking government official outwitted the CIA and thanks to him, the facts surrounding that incident are now known to many. Furthermore, many government officials are now coming out into the open and we can ascertain the facts relating to their testimonies by examining other documents surrounding their cases.

It would be a bit suspicious if all of them disappeared off the face of the earth. What is the government going to do? Lock them up at Area 51?

You really are clueless to the realities of NDP's and such - aren't you.... You are seriously clueless.... But.... Hey- you opened this one.
Go back to the DISCLOSURE PROJECT and tell me exactly what "TOP SECRETS" - or CLASSIFIED SECRETS were revealed? --- Answer: NONE.
Not one "TOP SECRET" was revealed or made public.
They only admitted to seeing UFO's. Umm, Sky - and this is a big deal why?? They admit they saw something they couldn't ID.
Plus believe it or not - NOT all Military Personel are privy to all the going ons.

Sure they are, a trip to area 51 is part of the training for all new recruits! Even those that joined to beat a stint in jail

I don't think civilians or those working outside government agencies will ever understand how information is compartmentalized. A TS (top secret clearance) really means very little for the vast majority of people that have one. They are not privy to the big picture and just get the minimal amount of info necessary for them to complete their mission/duty. Those that do get "read on" to special projects sign non-disclosure agreements and even then only recieve information that is required for their specific function. There is no big "reveal" for anyone not at the very top and even then one has to believe they only get the information within their branch or agency.

Jj,

What your saying true for the most part, however with the subject of UFOs/UAP and similar subjects that are not officially acknowledged the on-going official position is that there is no real official position. Under those circumstances, there can be no repercussions as these would effectively "prove" the classified nature of the subject matter.

Also in the U.S. reporting classified material is not specifically against the law, only leaking it is. In other words I'd face no charges for publically reporting something you told me that was classified.

Now hypothetically speaking, if you told me something that was classified about UFOs ( that are hypothetically classified) and I reported it, you wouldn't face any repercussions either as that in and of itself could also be reported and would "prove" the unacknowledged subject was indeed highly classified.

Where it would be exceedingly difficult and counter-productive to prosecute or punish a person that's already come forward with classified information that is not even acknowledged as being classified.

Did I say anything about the DP witnesses releasing top secret documents?

The data evidence and other documents that FAA official released were not classified and neither were documents supporting other DP witnesses either. I can find all kinds of documents relating to the UFO enigma that have nothing to do with the release of classified material. You are confusing the issue and just because the CIA missed those documents didn't mean they were classified.

No you didn't - thus I am trying to keep it on TRACK: You brought up the DP - so why did you bring it up? We are talking about SECURITY PROTOCOLS - TOP SECRETS - and KEEPING THEM.

So since you brought up DP - I'm asking, ON TOPIC - Show me where anyone w/TOP SECRET SECURITY shared ANY classified information. Because in all the video's I watched - there was only, "Job discription" and then "I saw a UFO...." (Phrased in different ways.)

You are right the Data you present are NOT classified or Top Secrets or breaking any Security Protocols - so WHAT DOES IT HAVE TO DO WITH THE TOPIC??

BOTTOM LINE: Do you have ANYONE that UNDER the TOPIC that has "Leaked" or "Shared" any information about "aliens" - "ET/crafts" and such from Area 51 or other High Security Zones??

Actually you are totally wrong on this one. Which tells me you really do not understand NDP's.

For me to talk about "it" is covered in the NDP. I know, I have about 8+ NDP's over my head. There are things I cannot even "hint" to the suggestion of 'it', if even I'm told - "I heard a rumor of .... " All I can say is, "Oh really? Wonder what that is??" I cannot even hint to the suggestion that "X" might even exist, rumor or not.

That is why at one point a few weeks back I had to actually call my lawyer to see if I could share a thought on here. I needed to know if it was generic enough or to forget it.

But even Microsoft Corp. understand the NDP's. My son t me take are real no-biggie case. My son came home from a Microsoft User test. He had to sign an NDP which states basically: "You cannot talk about this .......... to anyone. Not even hints or suggestions." Cause I asked him about it. He said, "dad, wow - I'm not allowed to talk about this period. That contract was very specific!"

Wow, this degraded faster than I thought it would. Thanks Sky. I wanted to mention by the way, the same thing I told another bone-head that started quoting his "classified" background to prove a point: If you have 40 years of experience with the Air Force (other than mowing their lawns) you sure don't show it. Not in your displays of knowledge, or in the tone and style of your posts. If you're the product of 40 years of Airforce employment, you solidify my opinion of the typical DoD employee, keeping people out of your rice bowl and collecting a paycheck.

The positions of some DP witnesses required top secret clearances but they were not releasing top secret documents but in any case, their testimonies can be corroborated by declassified and other non-classified UFO documents and data evidence, many available on the internet and under the Freedom of Information Act.



Major Donald Keyhoe was about to do just that and Major Dewey Fournet, USAF, backed him and confirmed the two USAF documents revealing that some UFOs were those of extraterrestrail beings. No one that I know of today is overstepping classified bounds when reporting UFOs or releasing UFO information, especially since thousands of UFO documents are available to the general public anyway and I must also add that it was the Air Force that revealed decades ago that UFOs were real, before and after the 1952 Washington D.C. incidents.

The B-52 crew that encountered the UFO near Minot AFB, didn't release classified information in a televised interview but they made it known that the UFO wasn't ours.

My sighting wasn't classified so I am free to reveal what happened. My case was similar to other UFO incidents that took place in Vietnam over the years, so my case is not unique.

Which IS my point.

ROFL!!

Chances are, I have more years experience in Air Force aviation than the lifespan of that captain he brought up.

I have designed components for Air Force aircraft and one of my favorites is my pressure flapper valve design that is currently flying in all of the Air Force's C-5B aircraft and some of its C-5A and C-5C aircraft as well.

Yeah, they just can't take reality for what it is.

The only way I can get them to agree with me, is if I claim that the numerous UFOs that overflew Washington D.C. in 1952, was my frisbee that got caught up in the jetstream over California in 1965.

just keep digging and providing facts....the world is ready for the truth...msnbc reported UFO's and that french website was number 2 web traffic in the country today....everyday more truth comes out...it's a good thing ,living in a world of lies is dangerous....

You're responsible for that thing!!??

Just kidding! C-5's are not my bag at all. I still think you derail threads with your cut-and-pastes and overly technical analysis. Your engineering background explains that though, as well as your inability to be wrong (no offense meant, but out of all the engineers I know, maybe 5% don't have a fit if they are proven wrong).

I guess only time will tell. Then again, I've been saying that since the 70's...

According to your word. As one person reminded me - and chances are your reports of 40 yrs and such is all hear say and stories you've made up. As far as we know you could be a janitor pushing a broom in a Starbucks Coffee Shop. The same could be said of me. The only difference is my name is really JjBreen and I've even posted where exactly I live. Now the quesiton is: Who are you really?

But as more then a few of us have pointed out:
Your "reports and data" do NOT prove alien or dis-prove them.
They only show that what is on those data posts are PUBLIC DOMAIN - what is labeled UFO is -or- is NOT public domain: We do not know - thus they are called Ufo's. Anything more is conjecture and speculation based on what the person knows - not what they DO NOT know. This is the logic of it all - it does not prove 'et/alien' or dis-prove - it only proves UFO's exist.

Which NONE of this has anything to do w/the OP.

Which is kind of my whole point here. Anyone that 'goes on record' w/specific information or claims, "I walked out of Area 51 w/Element 115..." is lying. Anyone in any Top Secret Security Zone that talks about specifics or even hints to such - is lying to you. These people that get this "high up" know what it means to keep secrets and how to keep them. The SECOND they show any sign of 'break down' or 'change of heart' - they are snagged just that fast.

So if a Four Star General says, "I saw a UFO." - he likely did...
Then you have to ask the following quesitons:
a. Why did he say that?
b. How generic is/was his statement?
c. Did it only fuel other rumors and stories?
............ IF so - why?
............................. To confirm the existance? Doubtful.
............................. To feed the story more fuel? Likely.

See the "ET/Alien", what I've come to see more than not as a "Cover Story" that has worked seriously well for them, that they will feed it w/1/2 truth and 1/2 lies and 1/2 deniles. Why - TO KEEP YOUR INTEREST!! Other wise, you would start to ask OTHER QUESTIONS - which right now I find funny that you specifically SKY - Avoid asking those quesitons - with no small denile. You write off the "Human Equation" w/what some have seen to quick and easy, almost like you seriously want to avoid the groups to go there and even ask those questions! Ya, some of us are pondering this.

But so far there are no FACTS to back up the "Aliens are Visiting Planet Earth" - there simply isn't - for the one thing that is consistantly missing: THE ALIENS.

But as I have said and will state again: We have NO proof of them or NO proof against them: We have no proof either way.

So IF it's being covered up - I find it curious that some DP type people keep feeding it w/generic recycle but no one, not one person has any serious, real or valid evidence of the "ET/Alien Presence".

I have often said in the past that I am skeptical of UFO reports until I have had the chance to examine the report, and that most UFO sighthings can be explained and that includes military aircaft, but it is that small number of sightings that I am interested in, especially the radar/visual cases. Other than the Air Force, I have designed items for the Raytheon Aerospace Co., where I was employed after my retirement from the Air Force.

If I see something that doesn't sound right, then I have to speak up and that is why I have corrected the Federation of American Scientist in regards to incorrect information on the performance of the Air Force's F-15. Since then, they have made their corrections.

On another note, it is easy to get off track on what the thread is all about.

There are some major holes in your assumption here. For instance multiple Military Institutions around the globe and members of these Institutions have made similar statements as your hypothetical Four Star General, are we to assume all these people and institutions are fueling the "story" covertly for the U.S. Military? I think not.

Is the French Space Agency also fueling the "story" for the U.S. Military?

A janitor wouldn't have known, nor be familiar with the kind of information that I have given you. Nice try, but it won't work! I could give you even more detailed nonclassified information, but I don't think that I will have to go that far.



The lack of knowledge of aircraft performance and aerodynamics is what separates us apart, hence my claim on the UFO case files in question and your inability (with all due respect) to deceipher what the data evidence reveals. As I've said before, knowledge will give you the ability to know when to "hold 'em" and when to "throw 'em." Without that knowledge, you are in no position to know one way or the other as to the validity of the claims relating to what the issue is all about.



People can talk and not reveal classified information but what they do reveal can be seen as part of the puzzle of what is going on elsewhere. One person can say something and another person, something else. A person who knows what to listen for can place the pieces of the puzzle together to understand the nature of what is going on behind closed doors. These few words are an example of what I am talking about.

"Loose lips can sink ships."

In regards to the DP witnesses, eventhough they are not revealing top secret documents before the cameras, what they are revealing can be ascertain via other means in order to verify the validy of their testimonies. Those who possess top secret clearances know what they can say and what not to say but they understand that any little word, eventhough nonclassified, can be that very important part of the missing puzzle piece to complete the picture of what the puzzle is all about.



In the case of General Exon, all he did was to confirm what others have already said. Then, you look for other avenues that supports his statement. Perhaps, he feels as myself and many others, that it is time for the government to come clean on what it knows about UFOs, but remember, he is not handing out secret documents to the press. He was also in a position to know what was going on, after all, other than occupying a position as commanding officer at Wright-Patterson AFB, he was also the Air Force officer who overflew the Roswell crash area.



Human equation? That reminds me of the skeptics who've claimed that the Roswell witnesses were in it for the money without mentioning that some of the witnesses were on their death beds. You known the old saying: " You can't take it with you."

So what it is, people do not have to violate their security clearances to reveal what is going on in regards to the UFO enigma. Place a nonclassified piece of a puzzle here, and a piece of a nonclassified puzzle there and eventually, a picture will begin to emerge as to what that puzzle is all about, and that is currently what is happening today and no one is violating their security clearances for their part in putting that UFO puzzle together because they understand the importance of their security clearances quite well.