i'm not sure if this has been done before... but anybody feel free to post 1 contridiction... or what you think is a contridiction in the Bible...

then if anyone has a an explanation to that contridiction, feel free to post it...

i've read a few times on here that people think there are contridictions in the Bible... and yes, it's true with some parts that were translated into English...

the argument i've heard is that since it was translated so many times, it's hard to know what is originally said... not really...

the Jews were actually a very accurate people when it came to copying and preserving... they even measured the spaces between the letters... counted the letters on each line... calculated the page total (every letter is a number)... and if it didn't turn out right, they burned it... they did very tedious work to preserve their texts... so i believe that they have a very accurate version...

just figured i'd point that out before it comes up... ok... i'm done... feel free to post what you have... and if you have sources... please post them too... especially if you make some off the wall claim... lol

It's been done to death LOL

But If Zannie reads this..man oh man...wait and see LOL

As for me..Im not going to go through this again...no offence

Okay, Moses and his plagues among the Egyptains. Firstly the plagues have all been tampered with at seperate points in time, for example; the mosquitos and boils, which had been added to the list later on. Also, in the earlier versions of the Exodus there were only eight plagues. I'n psalm 105 there are seven plagues (Ps 105:26-36), and in psalm 78 there are six plagues (Ps 78:43-51).
Also in older biblical verses the plagues are not even mentioned. The isrealites just... got up and left; in Ezekiel 20 the lord says " Therefore I led them out of Egypt and brought them into the desert" (ez 20:10).

Secondly, the Commandments. The bible can't make up it's mind about how many there were; Exedus 20 states 10 commandments, Exedus 34 states 8 or 12, Deuteronomy 5 states 10, and the codex shapirius states 11. The codex was determined to be real, due to the fact that it resembles other ancient texts found since. However one commandment was left out "You shall not hate your brother in your own heart", commandments are meant to be passed down and yet... it seems to have been forgotten. God also told Moses two completely different commandments, the first ones he shouted from his mountain to Moses, inwhich he had to then smash up and travel up into the mountain and receive the second commandments. Inwhich then god goes into a load of detail about and speaks of something the Isrealites would have not understood at all - money, seeing as it was something invented many centeries later.

"If men quarrel and one hits the other with a stone or with his fist and he does not die but is confined to bed, the one who struck the blow will not be held responsible if the other gets up and walks around outside with his staff; however, he must pay the injured man for the loss of his time and see that he is completely healed.� (Ex 21:18-19)

wow... "pay"? as if Moses would even understand what that meant. God also states very strongly that "no other person but Moses may enter this Mountain, for if they touch it they will surely perish" (<< not the correct words, but to the same extent), he then returns 3 days later to tell Moses that exact same thing... again. Yet, a little while later he suddenly says

"Come up to the LORD, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel.� (Ex 24:1).

Now... what?? I thought he said they'd surely die if they touched the mountain. Also during this time, Moses orders all the descendents of Levi to grab their swords (no idea how ex-slaves got swords...) and to kill everyone they encounter, inwhich they then kill three thousand Isrealites - THREE days after god told them that "you shall not murder".

Thirdly (and finally as I want to make myself some dinner.. ~_~ ) the book of joshua and his 40 years in the desert. Firstly, Kadesh Barnea - the place where the Isrealites had meant to have lived for 38 years, is truly in the lacking of evidence. Archeaologists can find traces of nomads that settled down for the night, yet can find no trace of a place that had been lived in for over 38 years. There is also a long list of 30-40 places they lived, and only Ezion Geber (33:35-36) has evidence of people living their in biblical times. However Ezion Geber was only inhabited during the Iron age, centuries after the Isrealites had passed the desert.
Oh, also the wars in the desert did not happen, in that many many places mentioned had not even been founded yet. And come on... ex-slaves - somehow gaining weapons - becoming great soldiers with no prior training, winning battles against well-trained armies and then winning... in places such as Ai ~ a jewish word for 'ruin'. Infact, many places that the author mentioned about Joshua defeating had either not been founded yet or where already in a state of great ruin or never even took place - like in Canaan the egyptians make no reference (and they noted EVERYTHING down) to being attacked, at all by Isrealites. To bad the author knew nothing of the history of the places Joshua appariently defeated....

Anyway, I'll add more later maybe if I remember.

ok... i'll start with Psalms... at first glance... it does seem like a contridiction... but what you should remember is that most of Psalms was written by David... and some of them are prophetic... but the majority are prayers... not necessarily historical... why he only put 8... i can't say... then he only put 7... but we do know that he was indeed aware of all 10...

as far as them just getting up and leaving... make perfect sense... if you tell someone you went to work today... you don't always say... i woke up... i took a shower... i got dressed... i got in my car... etc... you just say you went... the story is there... not need to constantly state specifics...

the commandments issue.. Exodus 20 only gives the first 10... there are actually about 200 and some change... the term 10 commandments was coined by people later on in history...

actually... they used money in egypt... if you remember... josephs family came to buy food... currency has been used all throughout history... at one point... precious stones were considered currency...

as far as dying when they touched the mountain... if you read it... that was only referring to when God gave them permission... they didn't have permission to touch that mountain before... until He wanted to talk to them...

your final contridiction is more of an assumption... you cannot prove that something did not happen... they are just now finding underground tunnels in cities in the middle east... and they know for a fact people have lived there... as far as digging up a desert... who knows how long that could take... one thing you need to remember... "God doesn't call the equiped... He equipts those He calls" so them having weapons and beating armies isn't an issue when you consider that it was God who "fought" for them...

but as for what you cited above about the plagues... i'm definitely going to look into that one... thanks for the contribution...

ahh yes archeaological digs....That reminds me of Lukes reference to the politarchs from the city of thesalonica in Acts 17:6. For quite a while people had thought Luke was mistaken, because no evidence of the term politarchs was found in any ancient Roman documents. However, there was an inscription on a first centur arch later found that begins, 'In the time of the politarchs...' It can be found at the British Museum. Later archaeologists found more than thirty-five inscriptions that mention the politarchs, several of them in Thessalonica were from the same period Luke was referring too. Another one was on John. Scientists believed since certain locations couldnt be verified that they considered John suspect at being accurate on events of Christ. They later found out that, for example, John 5:1-15 records how Jesus healed one of the invalids by the pool of Bethesda. John gives detail that the pool had five porticoes. For a long time this was considered innacurate on johns behalf but more recently they excavated the pool which lies about 40 feet below ground and sure enough, there were five porticoes, which means colonnaded porches or walkways, exactly as the John had recorded. You also have Jacobs Well from John 4:12, the probably location of that stone pavement near the Jaffa Gate where Jesus appeared before Pilate in John 19:13, even pilates own identity--all of which have lent historical credibility to Johns Gospel. So i wouldnt jump to conclusions that because something hasnt been discovered doesnt mean something doesnt exist.

References from "The case for Christ" by Lee Strobel

YAY...here we go again.......also remember there is a reason God is God. If we could perfectly understand everything That God said or Did..or if we could figure out God...what kind of god would he be. So i think the point is ...their will always be things we cant understand or prove..it will take faith..And again isnt faith the point.

good post...amazing what is being found now....i think the Lord allows things to be found at the right time...

randomhit10

It is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.1, and Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.6, the context that… ‘When the people returned from exile, from Babylon, when king Nebucheldeser of Babylon, when he released the men from Israel, they came back from captivity’ - and the list of the people are given. The list is given in Ezra, Ch. No.2, Verse No.2 to 63, and Nehemiah Ch. No.7, Verse No.7 up to 65; the list is given with the names as well as number of people released. In these 60 Verses there are no less than 18 times - the name is exactly the same but the number is different. There are no less than 18 contradictions in less than 60 Verses, of these two Chapters. This is the list - I don’t have time to run through the list - There are no less than 18 different contradictions in less than 60 Verses. Further it is mentioned in Ezra, Ch. No.2 Verse No.64 that… ‘The total congregation, if you it add up, it comes to 42,360.’ And if you read in Nehemiah, Ch. No.7, Verse No.66, there also the total is the same 42,360. But if you add up all these verses - which I had to do my homework - this is the list of Ezra… this is the list of Nehemiah. Ezra Ch. No 2, Nehemiah Ch. No 7 if you add up, it does not come to 42,360 - it comes to 29,818. And if you add up Nehemiah, Ch. No. 7, even then it does not come to 42,360 - It comes to 31,089. The author of the Bible, presumed to be ‘Almighty God’, does not know simple addition. If you give this problem, even to a person who has passed elementary school, he will be able to get the right answer.

It is mentioned in the 2nd Kings, Chapter No.8, Verse No.26, it says that… ‘Ahezia…, he was 22 years old, when he began to reign.’ ­­­­­­2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 22, Verse No. 2, says that… ‘He was 42 years old, when he began to reign. ­­­­­­Was he 22 years old, or was he 42 years old? - Mathematical contradiction. ­­­­­­Further more, in 2nd Chronicles, Chapter No. 21, Verse No. 20, it says that… ‘Joaram, the father of Ahezia, he reigned at the age of 32 - and he reigned for 8 years, and he died at the age of 40. ­­­­­Immediately… Ahezia became the next ruler at the age of 42. ­­­­­­ Father died at the age of 40 - Immediately son takes over, who is at the age of 42. ­­­­­­How can a son, be two years older than the father?’ ­­­­­­Believe me even in Hollywood , you will not be able to produce it. ­­­­­­


http://www.answering-christianity.com/abdu...nsistencies.htm

He would be.. a god that wanted his people to clearly understand his intentions and what he was trying to say.....?

Anyway, here's my favorite:

2 Samuel 8:4
David took from him a thousand chariots, twenty thousand footmen and seven hundred horsemen.


1 Chronicles 18:4
David took from him a thousand chariots, twenty thousand footmen and seven thousand horsemen.

You could say "copying error" or something like that... but that excuse doesn't really fly, considering you believe it's the divine word of the all-powerful creator, would he really let someone screw up and misrepresent his word like that? Point is, it is a contradiction and is written in the bible.

PS: look at those two verses in a multi-translation format, it's very clearly correctly translated.

(And note: 2 translations, the NAS and the GWT, actually CHANGE the first scripture to say 1700 in disagreement with every other mainstream translation which all say 700! Is it that hard to get a number right?)

Thaphantum,

Looky here:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...radictions.html

HONESTLY PEOPLE WHO GIVES A F*&% ABOUT CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE!@!@! THINK FOR YOURSELF! JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew we'd break his brain one day!

WHAT THE ...'V' losing his cool!


I always said this place will get to anyone after a while...no one has immunity here.


Phew!...@ least i'm still ok though >

YO REBEL!....how ya doing man!?

Yea not bad hairston, thank you for asking though Yourself?... hold on, time for my shots, brb

haha....Been great man...sitting here at work bored as anything.

Ha work who needs it if it were not for the

Yeah really...I cant stand it here....its so boring...i sit at a computer desk for 8 hours selling insurance...what a blast

Hey, hairstron, it's a job...look on the bright side @ least you get to play on the computer all day, i just hope your boss is not a UM member lol!

later champ

Matt 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.
2:2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
2:6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Herod the Great was the last man to bear the title of King of Judaea, he was born in 74 BCE, ascended the throne in 40 BCE and died in 4 BCE.
Augustus decreed official censuses only in the years 28 BCE, 8 BCE, 6 CE and 14 CE (according to his autobiography) and Cyrenius (more properly Publius Sulpicius Quirinius) was Governor of Syria from 6 to 9 CE. Contrary to what many Christian Apologists aver, Cyrenius did not have two terms as Governor of Syria, at the time that they wish to make him governor the first time, he was leading a military expedition in Pamphylia-Galatiawhat, part of present day Turkey. Ironically, the man often mixed up with him (Publius Quinctilius Varus) was an officer under his command during this expedition.
The contradiction of dates between Luke and Matthew account for at least 11 years and quite possibly a year or two more. However, the contradiction does not end here. If Matthew were right, then Jesus would have started his ministry in 24 CE – 5 years before John the Baptist started his (according to Luke, in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius or 29 CE)! This makes getting baptized by John rather difficult! Had he ministered for three years, he would have been executed in 27 CE, or 9 years prior to John’s death (according to Josephus John died in 36 CE)!
However, if Luke were right, then Jesus would have started his ministry no earlier than 36 CE, much too late to have been baptized by John, too late to have been tried by Pontius Pilate (relieved of duty and sent home in disgrace in early 36 CE), as Pontius would have been in Rome for more than 3 years at the time of Jesus execution. Can anyone explain away these contradictions?

WOW brave you show such.........charm in your posts LOL
Umm incase it may have escaped your notice...but thaphantum, obviously does care about them..other wise he wouldnt have asked others to show a few..lol

you tell him Becky... lol...

honestly... i enjoy doing the research... i actually found a good one that explains all the number discrpensies... i'll post it in it's entirety soon... but basically...

there was some discrepency about the size of a bathing basin....

translaters got the numbers wrong because "They Thought" that the Jews didn't know what they were doing... long story short... the translators changed the number and put a side note next to the translation...

turns out the translator's calculations were off by about 4 inches...

the Jews calculations are accurate to within 1/100 of an inch...

but i'll post the whole thing later...

thanks for your link... this guy is um.... to say the least... not that bright...



LMAO... he thinks that the Joseph in the OT is the same Joseph that is Jesus' adoptive father...

there is no contridiction there... it's 2 different people...

the guy names too man "contridictions" that are more misunderstandings than anything... i'm not even sure he knows what a contridiction is... further more... if you pay attention to some of the verses he links together... sometimes he skips multiple verses and then adds in one farther down the text....

such as the DEATH OF SAUL

it's clear that saul killed himself... one of david's people found him and lied... and david cammanded his guys to kill the guy that lied...

but the guy on that site doesn't present that... he cuts out major parts of the text...

Is that your way of answering contradictions? And I haven't seen a response to mine yet

maybe you should have copied my full response and not just the first sentence... he didn't even post a contridiction... just a link to some and i just picked a couple...

as far as yours... if i don't have an answer to it yet... i won't post one... i'm not the type of person who will just post an answer with absolutely no explanation at all... if you read any of my post... i never just reply for the sake of it... unless i'm agreeing with a previous statement... or asking for clarification...

other than that... i always try to provide a legitimate response to why i believe what i believe... if i don't have one yet.. i won't respond...

to be honest, the people who have posted... have posted some good stuff... and truthfully... i'm looking into it all...

very intersting...

can i get some sources so i can check this info for myself?

Oh, alright then.. I'll be awaiting your findings . The only responses I personally have ever heard are "translation error" or "copying error" or "being too picky", but again.. would a perfect God really let some human screw up his message?

Is it really screwing up the message KBA or does this fall along the lines of looking for a reason not to believe?

actually... almost all of the time... the first 2 are legitimate reasons... but as far as "being too picky" i think maybe they just don't have an answer for you... lol... as far as God letting people mess up His message... i will say this... people can do what they want... but God's word will always be fully intact somewhere on this planet... so you can always go back and get the truth...

think about it... how else would people go about proving that it was a tranlation error... if they couldn't find the truth somewhere else...

in my opinion... english is a very INEFICIENT language... it loses a lot of meaning in almost anything that's translated into it... and picks up westernized beliefs...

perfect example is the story of elves.... here they are good and work with santa... not so much in the dictionary and other countries...

I am not going to give you obscure literary references, most of which can’t be found outside of University libraries. Instead I will give you online references (although I am not too happy using wikipedia unless it is close to what I can find in the books). Here is the information on P. Sulpicius Qurinius:
http://www.livius.org/su-sz/sulpicius/quirinius.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quirinius

A check of this bio material will show that during the period of Herod's reign that Matthew speaks of, the gentleman was fighting barbarians, was serving as a Consul in Rome or acting as a babysitter for Augustus' heir apparent.

Luke confirms the 6 CE census in Acts 5:37. Here Luke reports the rebellion of Judas the Galilean over the census held by Cyrenius (6 CE)
In the Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus mentions the census under P. Sulpicius Quirinius, which he dates to the thirty-seventh year after the battle of Actium, or 6/7 CE. He further confirms Luke’s report of Judas the Galilean’s rebellion against Cyrenius’ census.

The information on Herod also comes from Josephus, in his “Antiquities of the Jews”. Wherein he reports the date that Herod assumed the throne, “They appointed him king of Judea (on the hundred and eighty-fourth Olympiad, when Caius Domitius Calvinus and Caius Asinius Pollio were consuls (this works out to 40 BCE.)
Also according to Josephus’ “Antiquities of the Jews” Herod died in the year beginning in the spring month of Nisan of 4 BCE. This is then matched up against the dating of the coins of the following Herodian rulers. This yields a year of his death beginning in the fall month of Tishri (or Dios) of 4 BCE. This overlap narrows the date to a six month period from Tishri of 4 BCE until the end of Adar in 3 BCE. Jewish tradition also dates a festival for Herod's death during this half of the year, on Kislev 7.

Luke 3:1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (this works out as 28/29 CE), Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,

Our other primary source on John the Baptist is also Josephus’ “Antiquities”, wherein he states, “Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God as a just punishment of what Herod had done against John, who was called the Baptist. For Herod had killed this good man, who had commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, righteousness towards one another and piety towards God.

In order to date John’s death, we must again use “Antiquities” where it is reported, “So Herod wrote about these affairs to the emperor Tiberius, who became very angry at the attempt made by Aretas (King of Petra), and wrote to Lucius Vitellius, the governor of Syria, to make war upon him, and either to take him alive and bring him to him in bonds, or to kill him and send him his head. This was the charge that Tiberius gave to the governor of Syria.” This Lucius Vitellius is the same person reported to have removed Pontius Pilate from office and sent him back to Rome in disgrace. Jerusalem is the obvious place to “winter” and army prior to the campaign against Aretas of Petra (37 CE?). This would put the death of John in either 35 or 36 BCE.

I'm of the opinion that if God wanted a perfect Bible he'd have written his own... he wouldn't need us mortals to do it for him. How many people can you trust to get a story straight even five minutes after you've told them about it? Bad memories, personal motives, poor education, an inability to do sums, stupidity... all good reasons for making a pig's ear of any message that needs relaying. And mistakes in the copying process, translation, etc., are all reasons, not excuses. How many books are published these days that have to be changed before the second edition comes out because someone duplicated/omitted something, got a name/date wrong? I have a whole load of books with those little slips of paper that tell you what should have been in the book and isn't.

I have no expectation of perfect accuracy in any history book written by men... which is what the Bible is.

And would God let us make a pig's ear of the Bible... heck yes, he lets us make a pigs ear of a whole heap of things. We're darned good at it too.

if God had written the Bible Himself... there would be that debate about whether or not He really wrote it...

oh yeah... God did write the first set of commandments... and Moses walked right down the mountain and dropped them... lol

then God said: "Screw that, i'll wait until they invent paper... do you know how long it took me to write that in a rock with my finger?" lol...

No it wouldnt LOL Cuz if God wrote the bible, and with him being perfect...there wouldnt be any debate, cuz then the bible would make clear and perfect sense to ALL that read it...besides..If God made man from dust...don't you think..he could write his OWN bible eh?? come on give him a break LOL.

As for Moses...LOL he didnt drop em lol NOOO he came down with them...spoke to the people...saw what went on when he was up the mountian.............got pissed at those who where out of control...threw the tablets in anger saying - He who does not live by God....shall die by God...then smashed the tablets..killed a few too

Didn't you see the movie?? LMAO ya know where Charlton Heston plays moses?? no??

I can almost pic it now...Moses smashing them to bits...goes back up the mountain again and says--- "umm God...ya still there?? I lost my head a lil and ummm they broke on me..fancy re-writing them pretty please??"

Presto he gets a second pair

the story is so far fetched IMO...but fun to read about and the movie was good too lol..I love fiction..............no offence to you

I always see Moses being played by Mel Brooks.

"My people! God has given us 15..*accidentally drops a stone tablet which immediately shatters*..10...10 Commandments!!"

^The 15 COMMANDMENTS for ya, Mr MacCanine

Hehehehe...

It's been a while since I had seen it...so I know I didn't have the quote quite right...but I still got the gist of it.

lol.. i was being sarcastic about dropping the commandments... lol...

maybe the Bible does make perfect sense in the original language... maybe God is sitting and thinking "wow, they sure know how to screw things up down there..."

or maybe if God wrote it Himself... it wouldn't make any sense at all... it would be written perfectly by a perfect being... and us with all of our imperfections wouldn't be able to understand it... or maybe we would become blind from reading it... lol

would you understand the mediation of an argument between two atoms if one didn't want to cooperate with the other... lol
i know that's not something that we KNOW can happen... but in the grand scheme of all knowledge possible to be learned... we don't know squat... so for all we know... God does mediate disagreements between secitons of DNA when a hand wants to become a foot... lol

do you think you would understand that?

who knows... that's all speculation...

oh yeah... and if i recall... God made moses chisel his own commandments the second time... lol...

The errors were not in translation, I can say that much. This is not a matter of words lacking good translations, it is numbers. There is a number in hebrew and greek for 700 and one for 7,000. Every translation reflects the same errors.

Point is, you asked for a contradiction, I gave you one. It is a blatant contradiction that you have to be making excuses, such as "human errors" to deny. Maybe the human error was simply the "prophets" not perfectly checking each other's stories.



So if the Bible is subject to human error, what's the point of taking anything in it seriously?

I highly doubt that if such an amazing being who was worthy of the title God were to write a book.. that people would question whether he wrote it or not. The style of writing and amazing knowledge and intelligence would be obvious. However, the Bible shows no signs of super-intelligent life, or even life not subject to human greed.

I still don't understand this whole deer-dance when it comes to God not wanting to give direct proof of his existence. This is how the Christians claim things are:

God wrote the Bible, but didn't do it himself. He used humans, because if he directly spoke to the people they would not have faith in him. (Because faith is important in a fear-based relationship..?)
God doesn't want to show physical proof of his existence, because of the whole faith thing.. yet once you don't require proof anymore he's all up in your face with it.
God is willing to torture and kill billions of humans, many of whom would instantly have faith if he showed proof.. but he does love those humans.
God would end millions of unnecessary deaths over religious tensions if he simply showed proof, but apparently it's more interesting to see which humans make it in the long run.
2,000 years ago, God had no problem physically proving himself. Of course, he loved giving proof in a time with poor record-keeping and more primitive people. He doesn't want to anymore though.
God will eventually destroy the earth and pass judgment on humans. "Eventually" could mean 10 years or 10 million, since God didn't feel like giving a date. He wants to be a thief in the night.

Now.. is it just me, or is God pulling all the stops to remove any reason to believe in him from 21st century atheists like me? Is it supposed to be a game? "Believe in me, I won't give you any valid evidence or reason to do so, you'll have to ignore your rationality and best judgment, but if you do it you win a prize".

actually, there is well documented proof of translation errors that occur in the english... sometimes the translators thought that the writers made mistakes... which they didn't... so the translators would note it and go back to it... sometimes they would change it and screw things up... i'll give you two examples...

Isaiah 64:6

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. "

in the original Hebrew... "filthy rags" was actually "used menstral cloths"... which if you read the Bible... you know that menstral cloths are considered one of the dirtiest things possible... to put it lightly... it actually says an "abomination"

Zechariah 12:10

"And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me (ALEPH TAU) whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

i inserted the "ALEPH TAU" part to show you something... those two letters were purposely left out because they didn't know how to tranlate it back then... if you don't know, they are the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet... together... they make the word "ET" (excuse the spelling on that word)... but if you look at it in context... it says... "they shall look upon me, the first and last, whom they have pierced"

the first and the last is a title the Jesus uses all throught Revelation...

those are just two things i can point out that were INTENTIONALLY changed... as far as number being changed... as i poointed out before... sometimes translators thought they were doing the text and writers a favor by correcting "mistakes" and they ended up being the ones making mistakes...



ok, since you copied this reply... which wasn't even a response to a question... this is a reply that i wrote as a response to a STATEMENT that someone made... the statement was what type of replies are usually given... so maybe you shouldn't take my responses out of context...



people would doubt it because they doubt God's existance... plain and simple... if we were to find a complete message encoded in DNA... some people would believe it was God... and other people would pop out the woodwork with "aliens put it there" theories... and we'd be back to the same argument... different book...



faith is part of the whole free will thing... if you don't want to believe... then God will not force you too... and even after you die... He still will not force you to be where He is... since you made a choice not too... thus we have the existance of hell... i'm not saying what hell is or even what's there... i'm just saying that's why it exists...

when you do have faith... you see and understand things on a different level than those that don't... and it's very obvious to believers when someone actually has a relationship with God... and when someone doesn't and just pretends to...



i don't recall God torturing anyone... and who said death is bad? people don't understand death... so they automatically assume it's bad because it doesn't fit into THEIR OWN grand scheme of things... for all you know... death could just be the beginning of our journey... death could actually be when we really begin to live...



Question... if God decided to show up tomorrow... and say... look... I sent the Book... I sent Prophets... you didn't believe, so I'm ending it all now... and those that didn't choose Me aren't welcomed in heaven... that would be the end of the world... no more choice... the choice would have been made for you...

once God shows Himself... it's no longer free will to believe... it no longer requires faith... because you would absolutely KNOW He was there... that's like saying that you have faith that the computer screen you are reading this on exists... of course you do... believing in what you can see DOES NOT require faith...



You assume He doesn't prove Himself anymore... i guarantee you that whenever someone talks about an experience they had with God... you write it off as B.S.... so again... that's your problem, not God's... and you may not see it as proof... but look at DNA... in my OPINION and some other prominent scientists... it looks like a message... and if it turns out to be a message written in everyone's DNA... what would your response to that be? i'm sure you would think there is a scientific explanation as to why our autobiography is writen in our DNA... but that's just my OPINION....



actually... He didn't give a date because people would come to Him out of fear... not that some don't anyway... but everyone would come to Him out of fear... and by the way... He did say what to look for, so that way you would know when His coming is close... and He gave specifics... lol... and not only that He actually gave the time frame in which we should start looking... the problem with people who try to predict the exact day, is that they can't... it's not possible... because it is a specific time frame... those of us who read the Bible know it's just like opening tomorrows news paper...



why do you assume it's God? man seems to be trying to INVENT reasons not to believe in God... i'll run through a few for you...

lets ASSUME that this was all an accident...
lets ASSUME that even though there is absolutely no proof whatsoever... that we are a product of evolution.... LMAO
lets ASSUME aliens put us here...
lets ASSUME we started on another planet, an asteroid/comet crashed on earth and we evolved here

in my OPINION every new idea sounds more rediculous than the last... man comes up with every reason to believe in anything but God... because i think that secretly... the atheists fear the existance of God... so they supress that common sense that you are born with and try to replace it with reason...

if God were real... He would do this or that...

if you knew exactly how God worked and what He would do... that would make you God... plain and simple... just because He doesn't work how you want Him to... has no bearing on whether He exists or not...

well said phantum

I don't care if "sometimes" there are actual translation errors, the scripture I gave you IS a contradiction and IS NOT a translation error. It's dealing with NUMBERS, not WORDS, and all mainstream translations reciprocate the contradiction.


It is NOT ABOUT FREE WILL. I can't say how many times I have heard that as a reason for faith. That is completely ridiculous. If God proved his existence he would not be forcing people to follow him, he would be making his existence clear and giving a two-way choice... follow me, or do not follow me, but I definitely do exist. And lol, yeah.. God created hell so he could torture those silly people who don't see things eye to eye with him, in all of his grace. Right?



I don't know if you know this but I was a fundie Christian not but two years ago.. I know what you think is a personal relationship with God, I've been there and done that.. it's very unimpressive when you actually analyze it subjectively.



Maybe you don't, but he's certainly promised to (of course if he actually exists and wrote the Bible)




What's the point of having free will to believe or not believe in God? I don't believe in God because there is a huge lack of evidence. Shouldn't the free will be in siding with God or against him? What, now it's a mortal sin to simply not believe God exists due to lack of evidence? Geeze, what a crime huh? How can I be expected to side with God when he is no more real to me than santa clause or the easter bunny? That's some skewed logic.


Because our DNA defines the way we will act... the composition of your brain changes the way you think and what you are more naturally going to do in life. And why would God want to partially prove his existence? If he doesn't want to, then he won't. If he did want to, then he would. Why would you claim there's proof if you say God doesn't want to give proof?

God doesn't want people to come to him out of fear? Is that why the Bible threatens to eternally torture all non-believers?


And let's ASSUME that you are incredibly close-minded. Evolution has SO SO SO much more evidence to support it than a theory of God does. Nobody's saying it was all an accident. Evolution is the survival of the fittest over a long period of time. We know that creatures evolve, that is undeniable. Even as humans we have developed visible changes from each other, in the relatively short time we've been around. Hair color, eye color, race, being tall or short, all the differences like these are mutations, small changes in the long process of evolution. If brown hair made you survive or reproduce more, eventually the overwhelming amount of the population would have brown hair, because of natural selection. If you can say there is no proof or evidence of evolution, you do not understand evolution.


hahaha, That's rich. As if we're all born thinking.. "OH! The Christian god is the real God!!! or even "Oh!! We got here from a powerful intelligent being!!" I wonder, if everyone is born thinking that, then WTF is the bible for? What, need to further indoctrinate the already faithful? And I can not say enough times, I know how it feels to think all the atheists fear the existence of God, and when you think that you do not understand an atheist's point of view. I can not explain it to you, and only a Christian turned atheist can understand what I'm saying. Atheists TRULY do not believe in or fear God. If I was afraid of or believed in God, wouldn't I be a Christian?



I'll tell you, in the Bible.. he works pretty similar to Hitler. "I am perfect, follow me or I will make you suffer, I am powerful and everyone will know and acknowledge it or they will die"..

how ridiculous, to think such a wise being would be so vile and power-hungry..

*gives thaphantum a wedgie* lol

Now..as far as I am concerned...God wrote no bible

Remember if you believe in God, then you will believe God is PERFECT...also, allmighty and allpowerful............he created the entire universe for petes sake............and didnt write the bible...

Think to yourself.........why didn't God write the bible?? Could it be because, he didn't want one to be written? We can't prove this, but it makes sense to me...not to you but to me (hush before I give you another wedgie lol).....think about it...he could well have written one that every last person on this green earth, could understand....and made perfect sense

But see he didn't...and to add to that, he prolly didn't because he wanted man to figure out for themselves (man meaning both male and female)...what path to chose...so if he wrote a bible..hthat everyone understood and could NOT debate it, then there would be no such things as atheists ect nor would there be such things as other religions...or perhapps no such thing as religion period.....who knows eh??

Above is just my opinion lol...I know you study the bible, so I am not going to dispute it with you..cuz i respect your ideas too..

If none of this makes sense???.................Sheri wrote it LMAO

I absolutley love Mel Brooks !!! Blazing Saddles , High Anxiety !!

ok here's my contribution to Bible contridictions from

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm



God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6
108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5
140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19
142. Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13
143. All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17



lots more of them -

I have a question for you all. Let's consider that all these different historical facts, and what not are true. Let's assume that the Bible is proven to be false. What does that do? It certainly does not make the faith false. The Bible isn't perfect. The idea that the Bible is perfect came from Christian idolatry, and subservience to the Bible. Many a Christian believes that the Bible is the inerrant, holy, Word of God. Yet this idea is not true, and is anti-Biblical. The Bible is merely a book, which God has set in place for the refinement of the faith. I think that the majority of the people who have posted contradictions here in this thread did so in attempt to prove the Bible wrong....but the question I have for you is, what does it matter the amount of horses David had? What does that have to do with loving God. Today the church has accepted many heretical ideas, and because of these ideas the church has made itself to look like a bumbling fool. In light of their own desires, and in light of their pride, Christians themselves have polluted their own minds, and church with lies, and falsehoods. If these falsehoods were not so deeply imbedded in the church the Bible's veracity wouldnt be a problem. Christians we have brought this on ourselves, when we fill ourselves with false teachings it is easy for some non-Christian to come along and disprove what we have accepted as true, because even they cannot deny what is true. The Bible isn't the Word of God. If you are Christian and think that the Bible is the Word of God than I beg of you to actually read the Bible. Discussing the contradictions in a human book is a pointless ordeal. What if instead we came together and worked toward world unity where everyone is accepted, where all are tolerated, and where we can all get along in peace?

wow!! what a pleasant surprise

I just stumbled upon this post by accident, while reviewing the contents of this website, and lo and behold, what a fortunate coincidence to have found a subject matter very much near my heart and mind! And so, I have decided to register to contribute to this worthwhile discussion.

Recently, and this is where coincidence shines the brightest, I've been delving into the Gospel texts trying to make sense of the Resurrection narratives, full of seeming contradictions and other perplexities. So far, what I thought was an impossible task has turned out to be an assignment stacked with surprises. The product of my studies, approached from a layman's perspective, is a paper tentatively titled "A Chronological and Harmonious Redactive Sketch of the Resurrection Narratives," which, with time and further research, I hope to see it transform into a full fledge academic thesis culminating in a degree in the New Testament in the future.

Since the topic of "Bible Contradictions" is too vast of a study requiring multiple disciplines, not the least of these a masterful grasp of dead languages, I will try to concentrate on the Resurrection narratives for now, and see if together, we can explore avenues of opportunity, growth, and enlightment. Sort of like a peer-review process? Maybe a separate thread will better serve this purpose. But ler us see how far we can go....

Hi Mad Manfred,

The only problem is that if Jim Meritt was an authority on these texts, like for instance Dr. Michael Heiser (see here [url=http://www.michaelsheiser.com/briefbio.htm[/url]), then his contributions to the "contradiction problem" would be appreciated a little better. The list you are referencing in infidels.org covers a lot of biblical ground, and I doubt that a Unix systems engineer who does not show an inkling of a background in any of the fields of academic biblical research, is really qualified to say much of anything if he doesn't show the kind of work meriting the recognition of a reputable expert.

but what if God influenced man to write the Bible the way it is... for all the exact reasons you stated above?

lol... think about that one...

i'm almost sure you know this... at least, i hope you do... you are aware that the number and letters are the same thing in Hebrew right? if one wanted to... they could take the whole Bible in Hebrew and calculate it... with that being said... everyone would probably get a different number...

so back to what i said earlier about mistranlation... most of the new Bible versions are indeed copied from King James Version... which contain the error... very few are copied from a Hebrew, Greek, or Latin source... so that would make sense that they all contain the error... that's what happens when one person makes a copy that contains an error... and you someone else decides to copy that copy...



again... if God PROVED His existance... you wouldn't need FAITH to believe... the free will is have FAITH and FOLLOW... or DON"T HAVE FAITH and DO YOUR OWN THING...

instead of just having a two way choice... you have a lot of choices... your problem is that you want God to take away all your choices except for two... lol... which is rediculous...

who in their right mind would go against an all powerful being... that they knew for a fact existed and could blink them out of existance or pretty much do anything He wanted?



what exactly do I think is a personal relationship with God? since you know me soooo well... please explain to me what i think that is...



question... what if you have it wrong... what if we just don't understand the evidence? what if all creation IS the evidence? can you then deny that you experienced it? lived it? interacted with it?

are you going to tell God to His face... "that's not proof?"

the thing about proof and evidence is this... when people don't get the PROOF or EVIDENCE that they THINK they should have... they consider it as no proof...

if i showed up at your front door in a UFO and said... "hey, look what i made"... you then have two choices... believe i made it... or don't believe i made it...

while one person will take the UFO itself as proof that i made it... someone else will want blueprints and a list of all materials used...

again... blueprints and list doesn't mean i made it either... it just means i can provide blueprints and a list... there would be ABSOLUTELY no way to prove that i made it...

my point in all that is... in my OPINION... creation is all the proof i need... based on my PERSONAL observation... while at the same time... you may need God's signature to prove that He did it...



i asked you... what would you say if everyones autobiography was written in their DNA? i never said God doesn't want to give proof... i said that He is not going to show up and yell in your face... "hey stupid... I exist"... i'm speaking in general... not calling you stupid...



i don't recall EVER reading a part in the Bible that says that hell is a torturous place... although it is a possibility when you consider all the things that we don't know... all i can say is that you are making a personal assumption because i have NEVER read that in the Bible... in any book that is in there...



are you talking about all the UNDENIABLE proof that exists and that 100% of the scientists in the world agree on? i'm sure you mean that proof... lol...

and again... i go back to my OPINION about all of creation... which would be more evidence for God than evolution... in my OPINION...



actually a lot of people have said it's a big accident we got LUCKY... visible changes in my OPINION aren't proof of evolution... because there is no study that can prove that people with certain traits reproduce more... for example... i see more BRUNETTES than REAL BLONDES on a daily basis... but according to the media... people are more attracted to BLONDES... so why aren't there a lot more BLONDES in the united states?

and again... some people have fetishes... a lot of people like really big men or woman... some people like dwarfs... some like long legs... and all those people have equal chance of reproduction...

so your whole idea of visual evolution can fit to any human that is born... with any condition... you COULD say that being born with no legs is an evolutionary advantage because their are indeed websites dedicated to the fetish of men having sex with women that don't have legs... in my OPINION visual differences in people have no place in evolution...



do you really think it's a coincidence that people have a need to find that THING that is missing inside of them? people call it different things... some people call it "finding themself" which usually never happens... you are who you are... no need to find yourself...

some people are seeking the "meaning of life"... which i believe that people have different meanings for their own life...

but the common factor is that everyone is seeking an explanation... because in my OPINION... God put it there so that we will come to Him...

people in GENERAL want to believe in something...

a real Christian (going to church does not make you a Christian)... tries to understand God... once they have a relationship with God...

a false Christian usually turns away from the belief in God... because they never had a true relationship with God in the first place...

SOME atheists have the need to explain away God any way they can... so they will accept any EVIDENCE that science puts out... without question... mostly because they fear or hate God...

OTHER atheists just haven't come to a conclusion yet... and in the long run... will PROBABLY fall into the belief group or the never believe group...

i'm not going into every religion because we are just talking about Christians and atheists at the moment...

then there is a SPECIAL group of people... that just hate God for their own reasons... they still believe... but they are just mad...

my point being... everyone IS born with a need to believe in something...



actually... in the Bible... God pretty much leaves everyone to themselves... He asked people to follow Him and they chose to.. and so would the devout atheist if a an all powerful being popped up and said... "here I am... I need you to trust me and do what I say..."

that person would instantly cease to be atheist... because they could no longer decide to believe in God or not... they would know he existed...

further more... your comparison of God and Hitler is rediculous...

everyone dies whether they acknowledge God's power or not... there are only 2 exceptions in the Bible... Elijah and Enoch...

God made fair rules all across the board for everyone... you all die... no matter what you believe... that's not really power hungry...
then He made two place for them to go... heaven and hell...
so even after you die... you still don't have to be with God... so i'm failing to see how He is power hungry... or vile... when even in death... He allows you to continue living with the choice you made while you were alive...

and by the way... how can you be power hungry if you are already all powerful? you can't become more powerful...

I don't understand why the Bible needs to be perfect. It's a book written by men. Men are incapable of being objective because every expression is one of personal belief/understanding. Do we expect perfection of any other book? No. And it is like any other book in that man wrote it.

What if God didn't want a Bible... didn't necessarily not want one either... he was easy either way. Man goes off and tries to define God and the history of man from the beginning of time (believing himself up to the task ) and, bless his little cotton socks, makes a mess of the job. What's God going to do... proof read it and edit out the mistakes?