The north poles of the largest planets in our solar system have always been viewed by classical astrologers as living entities with mathematical relationships to the Earth and solar system as a whole.

Many classical astrologers have contended that the planets Jupiter and Saturn have mystical geometric mathematical symbols on their poles that emit forces that affect us here on Earth ~ including powerful radio signals, that were once called "the Music of the Spheres" ~ which all planets emitted in their astrological transits when spinning on their axis. Plato believed that all life on Earth formed by various geometric actions related to the motions of the Sun and planets.

It was contended by classical astrologers that a mystical hexagon symbol is situated on the north pole of the planet Saturn, and another mystical astrological mathematical symbol is located on the planet Jupiter. The hexagon on Saturn was estimated to be double the size of the Earth and emits powerful signals from it.

Many conventional scientists scoffed at such things being real until getting a view in the 1980s from the Voyager spacecraft. There were views offered that conventional astronomers were continuing to cover up actual physical truths about the cosmos, and those within our own solar system that are also metaphysical and astrological truths about the nature of the cosmos within our own solar system.

In fact, many clear photographs of the north poles of Jupiter and Saturn published in astronomy and science books over the past 20 years have been clearly cropped by higher ups in NASA and JPL. Even at that time, conventional scientists assumed the symbols were anomalous, not really there, and continued to scoff at the contentions by classical astrologers that the symbols are indeed very real.

Now we know that the classical astrologers were right ~

NASA REPORT:
Saturn's Active North Pole
March 27, 2007

"A bizarre six-sided feature encircling the north pole of Saturn near 78 degrees north latitude has been spied by the visual and infrared mapping spectrometer on NASA's Cassini spacecraft. This image is one of the first clear images ever taken of the north polar region as seen from a unique polar perspective.

Originally discovered and last observed by a spacecraft during NASA's Voyager flybys of the early 1980's, the new views of this polar hexagon taken in late 2006 prove that this is an unusually long-lived feature on Saturn.

See film of Saturn's hexagon ~ http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-034

This image is the first to capture the entire feature and north polar region in one shot, and is also the first polar view using Saturn's thermal glow at 5 microns (seven times the wavelength visible to the human eye) as the light source. This allows the pole to be revealed during the nighttime conditions presently underway during north polar winter. Previous images from Voyager and from ground-based telescopes suffered from poor viewing perspectives, which placed the feature and the north pole at the extreme northern limb (edge) of the planet.

To see the deep atmosphere at night, the infrared instrument images the thermal glow radiating from Saturn¿s depths. Clouds at depths about 75 kilometers (47 miles) lower than the clouds seen at visible wavelengths block this light, appearing dark in silhouette. To show clouds as features that are bright or white rather than dark, the original image has been contrast reversed to produce the image shown here ~ http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/imag...fm?imageID=2552

This image was acquired on Oct. 29, 2006, from an average distance of 902,000 kilometers (560,400 miles) above the cloud tops of Saturn.

Also see March 28, 2007 Spaceweather.com report on Saturn's north pole hexagon ~ http://www.spaceweather.com/

The nested set of alternating white and dark hexagons indicates that the hexagonal complex extends deep into the atmosphere, at least down to the 3-Earth-atmosphere pressure level, some 75 kilometers (47 miles) underneath the clouds seen by Voyager. Multiple images acquired over a 12-day period between Oct. 30 and Nov. 11, 2006, show that the feature is nearly stationary, and likely is an unusually strong pole-encircling planetary wave that extends deep into the atmosphere."

The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. The Cassini orbiter was designed, developed and assembled at JPL. The Visual and Infrared Mapping Spectrometer team is based at the University of Arizona, where this image was produced.

Lilly ~

"Living entities"...really? Normally I'd suspect that this kind of statement is just 'poetic license', or a bit of a joke. However, I get the distinct feeling that this isn't the case.

Hi Liily,

I reposted your post here. Actually, yes, it's no joke." Planets are considering "living" as the Earth is considered "living." All forms of life in the unviverse, including stars, are in a sense "alive" ~ they produce phenomena as planetary bodies that produce light, sound, and structures like the geometric shape filmed on Saturn's northern pole. Many of the world's brightest minds considered the cosmos, and the stars and planets "living entities." The literature is quite fascinating. A Vedic concept is that the planets are living entities and are called Grahas in Sanskrit, or "points of influence" and can have personified forms.

See ~ http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/...netsliving.html

For the western mind to accept, a scientific translation would be that low frequency photons, from cosmic rays, circulate widely through the interior of the planet. These particles emanate from the openings to caverns and caves, and emanate from the polar openings. In this role, they are called Vayu, and direct the wind patterns on the surface. These particles are the life breath of the planet, and the rivers are its blood. The Earth itself is a living planet, explained in this exerpt ~

"The idea that life on Earth controls the physical and chemical conditions of the environment. Named after the Greek Earth goddess Gaea, it was originally formulated by James Lovelock and Lynn Margulis in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and has attracted both critics and supporters in large numbers. Different forms of it have been proposed, varying from "weak" to "strong." Weak Gaian models assert simply that the biota have a substantial influence over certain aspects of the abiotic world, such as temperature and composition of the atmosphere. Or, they may go further and argue that just as the biota influence their abiotic environment, so the environment influences the evolution of the biota by exerting Darwinian selection pressures. The version put forward by Lovelock and Margulis is strong in that it depicts terrestrial life as influencing the abiotic world by a series of negative feedback loops in a way that is fundamentally stabilizing. As Lovelock puts it in The Ages of Gaia:

"The Gaia hypothesis says that the temperature, oxidation state, acidity, and certain aspects of the rocks and water are kept constant, and that this homeostasis is maintained by active feedback processes operated automatically and unconsciously by the biota. The oceans, the atmosphere, and all biological material on Earth are thus portrayed as integral components of a vast, self-regulating system. Not only that but life, in the original concept of Gaia, is seen as regulating the environment so as to maintain suitable planetary conditions for the good of life itself.

Lovelock and Margulis state that ~ "The Earth's atmosphere is more than merely anomalous; it appears to be a contrivance specifically constituted for a set of purposes ... it is unlikely that chance alone accounts for the fact that temperature, pH and the presence of compounds of nutrient elements have been, for immense periods, just those optimal for surface life. Rather ... energy is expended by the biota to actively maintain these optima."

See Plato's Timaeus on the comos as a living entity~ http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/timaeus.htm

Ok, as this is the Metaphysics form I guess such ideas are commonplace. However, mainstream science does not classify planets and stars as 'living entities'.



Ok, it's a hypothesis alright. However, when it comes to planets like Saturn the key element of biota is lacking. When discussing Earth the idea that the ecosystem itself responds to stimulus can be supported. To argue that the Earth is somehow *conscious* seems to be a bit of a stretch though...then again this is a forum dealing with the supernatural.

So, the entire cosmos is alive and even has a soul (according to some at least). Seems like a pretty broad definition of life if you ask me, but who am I to argue with Plato.

This may be the proof that there existed at least the spirit of contact between globes or possibly astronauts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/science/...623&ei=5070

Compare the picture with the images from Saturn:

See film of Saturn's hexagon ~ http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-034

I will because of those pictures have to agree with Lilly, but I have to restrict her meaning to the present age. Compare the two photos from the websites. Now, we have to understand that the movies of the planet Saturn can be 'manipulated' to make it actually appear that what you see is really there. I am not saying that it is not true, but very clever.

Er... have they? A reference please.



No, Voyager found this object, so "classical" astrologers can't have known about it, and it doesn't emit "forces that affect earth". In fact, it says in the very article you posted "Based on the new images and more information on the depth of the feature, scientists think it is not linked to Saturn's radio emissions or to auroral activity".

Somethings in the news for a few days and already people are heaping pseudo-scientific nonsense onto what would otherwise be a very interesting subject.

And anyway, this is in the wrong section. This should be in the Space section of the normal forum as it hasn't nowt to do with metaphysics.

Well what are you saying then? That the saturn images have been manipulated?

I think that when one starts placing the "it's alive" label onto planets one kind of needs the metaphysics element...see what I mean?

But if you have no reference and nothing to back up the "it's alive" label, then why post? I'm not being rude, I just think it detracts from what an amazing thing it actually is.

No, not at all, Just do not rely on any filmed image of anything to make up your mind concerning something as important as a planet in our solar system.
Do not allow that picture and film to become the basis for your understanding.

Plato is definitely worth the study. However, you are correct, modern "western" conventional science does not classify planets and stars are living entiies. Astronomy is stellar cartography, it's job is only to identify, name and map celestial bodies. That's it. It's job is not to take part in the overall examination of wider questions of the cosmos. That job is for the classical astrologers and theologians. It has always been this way. Once astronomers try to take part in areas outside of their job, they get in trouble with wild speculations based only on their materialistic functions of identifying, naming, and mapping the heavens. They are stellar technicians, and not supposed to take part in the philsophies of the cosmos unless they are practicing astronomy as a part of the other practices in classical astrology.

The classical term for the cosmos is as a "living entity." Plato, for instance, saw the universe as "alive" in the form of numbers, which rules all things. However, try not to confuse the current knowledge of conventional science as the final word on matters such as these. There is always much more to learn, and conventional science is still very young, and quite materialistic.

As for the Earth ~ I suggest to you that the Earth is a "living" planet. It is not "dead" that's for sure, and mainstream science does not represent the Whole of what Science is, which is one of the problems I think some people have as if only they have the final say on what is "alive" and what is not.

There are different levels of consciousness, and to assume that because you are not aware of this does not mean that it is not so. Remember that Science is about exploration and discovery, and many times, as I've said before, also about re-discovery. Try not to assume that mainstream "speculation" is solely the last word, or even "scientific." Remember that there are many levels of dimensions that have not been proven, but that we know exist, and one cannot "test" everything in a lab, using that to say whether it exists or not. We all know the weather exists, yes? But we cannot replicate weather in a lab. There are many applications and ways of scientific examination, but let's not use only a hammer to bang away at things to prove that they are real. Science is not about that.

I did post it in that section.

Actually Emma, the classical astrologers did know about it. I have some pretty good ideas of how, but they did know. I heard about this during my classical astrology studies back in the 1970s. At that time it was considered very radical, but my tutors told me that some classical astrologers of yore had written about the geometic forms on some of the planets' poles. This followed the line of thought of people like Plato and Pythagorus on geometic development of all life in the universe.

One of the things a classical astrologer learns about are transmutation geometric forms, like the Greek Acretian circles. Saturn is known as a planet that "transmutes" in astrology, and is associated with time cycles that affect the Earth, as all the planets do. Many of the mathematical aspects the planets make, and that astrologers track in their aspects, create geometric forms. It's math.

However, the first photos were suppressed by astronomers and scientists, so try not to put them in this "truth at all costs" category that you do with "matainstream science" Emma, ok? I received information back in the 1980s of the geometric features on the poles of both Jupiter and Saturn from a scientist at JPL who sent it to my newspaper desk where I was one of the science reporters. We couldn't find any astronomers who would support the geometic features, since it was politically incorrect for them, and they wanted to keep their jobs. This one guy did so because he was angry about all the suppression. He said they were also suppressing UFO films taken by astronomers and scientists. So, please, let's not give "mainstream science" the final word on what is real and what is not.

If you go find some astronomy books from the 1990s of the north poles of both planets, you will see that they have been cropped, or cut out altogether. You can actually find astronomy books with photos of Jupiter and Saturn that are sliced out right at the north poles. Check it out sometime. That doesn't speak much for "maintream science" so please don't go off in the "pseudo" rant already.

More people would have known about this if it were not for the close-mindedness of those in the mainstream conventional scientific community who had the photos 26 years ago. Remember, it was said by classical astrologers centuries to exist, and this was scoffed at by conventional astronomers who knew about the geometric poles on Saturn, and remember, there is one on Jupiter as well that was known to exist in the 1980s, but you didn't hear about that then, did you? Doesn't say much for mainstream science.

They are many things that conventional astronomers are "scared" of because they went off into areas of philosphy that is not their job. They are only to identify, name, and map these celestial objects openly ~ not to speculate, suppress, and cover up. If anything is "pseudo-science" ~ it is that.

Why? When you light a candle Emma, you don't then stick it under the bed. A light is meant to be seen, to shine, not to cover up, or cover over. The truths of the cosmos are always to meant to be open and free.

There are at least 3 more images of the same thing on the same page besides the film

On one it shows below that hexagon-shaped thing and it shows the 'ripples' of the atmosphere. The amazing thing about the film is it shows the hexagonal-shaped ripple as a big structure and that necessarily makes any person belive that something has been built. The way that electronics works in making pictures is by the use of pixels. Pixels are hexagonal in shape and something as far away as Saturn will appear hexagonal in shape. Anything that you focus on that is in the picture will follow a hexgonal shape.

If a piece of brick has mold on it, do you say that the brick is alive? No. Life and this earth are obviously connected but not symbiotic.

As for your other post, I'll just have to take your word for it, even if sentences like "the first photos were suppressed by astronomers and scientists" make it kind of difficult.

The planets were alive elements at one time. But like agynal heartbeat they're dead.
The sun gives everything life, but you! The sun will kill you if you stay out in it long enough! Now, where in that is life? Your life comes not from the hot sun but the cool sun in your breast!

Listen Emma, let's try not to dumb things down, ok? No, the brick is not a living entity. Bricks don't rotate on their axis, or have an atmosphere. You have many living organisms living on your body right now, and when we die, those organisms are still alive, eating away at us, even though our physical form is dead.

One cannot do algebra, geometry, or trigonometry until one has learned addition, subtraction, etc. In a similiar way, you are trying to do things above that which you yet understand. Take it step by step, let go of predispositions, and biases, and learn more about the world and the cosmos without the weight of bias, or presumptions. Science isn't about that, and never was.

People who often "think" they are being "scientific" when all they are doing is expressing predispositions don't learn much at all, and only express opinions in the form of speculation. When the discoveries don't shape up to fit their predispositions, one of two things happen ~ the honest ones adapt, and come correct, and learn more, and the dishonest ones make things up to protect their personal sensibilities. The choice depends on the character of the person (s) and shapes their own futures and destinies, because all of us have free wills within the laws of the cosmos.

As for the first photos. I don't care if you want to "take my word" for it or not. It is true. These geometric symbols were photographed back in the 1980s. Go to the library sometime, search for astronomy books with Voyager and Galileo photos of the north poles of the planets Jupiter and Saturn that were published in the late 1980s and all through the 1990s and see for yourself the cropping and the cutting out right at the poles. One book I saw even had the nerve to state in the cutline that the north pole wasn't "clear" with the center of the poles of Jupiter and Saturn cut out. I know suppression and crops when I see them. It's not difficult at all. Have a library card? Use it then. See for yourself.

I don't think so GreggK. Deal with it. The geometric forms are there. There is one on the north pole of Jupiter too. They've been there since the planets were created. They were there back in the 1980s when they were filmed and photographed and they are there now. It's ok.

It is amazing, that's for sure, and it confirms some of the very things Plato, Pythagorus and Archimedes surmised about the nature of the cosmos.

Well, I agree with Plato, a classical astrologer, who that said ~

"[The Demiurge] brought into being the Sun, the Moon, and five other stars, for the begetting of Time. These are called “wanderers” [planêta], and they stand guard over the numbers of time. … And so people are all but ignorant of the fact that time really is the wanderings of these bodies."

This is what Astrology is about ~ the forecasting of events based on the transits of the planets (time) through the heavens (space).

For more on these basics of classical astrology and the natural world and cosmos, see ~ http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/timaeus.htm

interesting post....B

Thanks Barek.

SURE!
now if I was only smart enuff to understand what you guys are talking about... ......B

It's not really that difficult; is the shape at the pole on Saturn a sign that the ancient Greek philosopher Plato was correct in his assumption that celestial bodies were somehow *alive*? Or, is the hexagonal shape a natural process that we don't completely understand quite yet (because Saturn is a very long way off folks)?

I really think everyone should first read this article Geometric whilpools revealed.



While ancient Greek philosophy is interesting and certainly shaped some concepts of modern society, I prefer to consider a more scientific explanation for this particular "anomaly". The evidence that celestial bodies are somehow *alive* is somewhat lacking (understatement).

What's so difficult about seeing the cosmos as living? Everything is made of numbers and physical forms, according to Plato are reflections of the spiritual world. Without the planets in motion, there would no time. Try not to reduce "science" to some kind of narrow, in-the-lab, materialistic only "explaination" of the cosmos. Re-read Plato and contemplate what the man said ~ http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/timaeus.htm

There are specific criteria as to what makes something alive. Here's a list of the basic characteristics of living things:

1) Living things respond to stimulus.

2) Living things grow and develop.

3) Living things take in material and give out material.

4) Inside living things certain processes occur.

5) Living things can reproduce.

6) Living things can die.

Celestial bodies simply do not fit the criteria of life accepted by the modern world.




You mean, 'explanation' (I know how important spelling is to you).

I have no problem with Plato being looked at as an immanent philosopher. However, as far as biological science goes there's quite a bit lacking with his concept of what is essentially alive. Social and philosophical sciences are one thing, biology is quite another. For the ancient Greeks this distinction was probably not quite as clear. Science has this tendency to move forward and gain more and more knowledge as time passes. We now have a much greater understanding of what being a 'living thing' actually entails.

Those terms represent that which are biologically-known processes on Earth. There are many more throughout the cosmos that we've yet discovered in-hand, but that does not then say that they do not exist just because they do not fit the criteria of life that we know of at this time, or that is "accepted" by the "modern world." Don't you think there's more to learn, or, do you presume that you've learned all that there is? It's something that you're going to have to figure out and understand for yourself Lilly.

P.S. - Isn't good spelling important to you too Lilly?

Since we don't know anything about other forms of life then it would be remiss (and illogical) for me to draw any conclusions on something we don't know anything about.



Of course there's more to learn. However, at this point in time we've yet to come into contact with other forms of life (other than Earthly). To assume that the hexagon shaped storm on Saturn represents such 'other life' is wild speculation (at best).



Honestly, I don't even bother to use spell check on an informal site like UM (and consequently I'm sure I often make spelling or typo errors). If a poster's errors are such that it renders the content unreadable then, yeah, I'd say there's a problem. However, many people here are using English as their second language and doing the best they can. I tend to 'cut some slack' in informal discussions.

They are amazing images. Strange how a hexagon can hold its shape, especially over such a long period of time. Specially considering its phenomenal size and mass.

But, even as amazing, and strange as it is, I wouldn’t go as far as calling it a living entity, no more than I would call a hurricane a living thing. They are simply cause and effect. Objects or mass created by the environment or situation in or around that particular area.

Yes, quite amazing. The one on Jupiter is too.

What about the north pole of Mars?.....B
(Jupiter has one as well )

Good link. That's a weird phenomena for sure. What amazes me is the difference in size between the bucket and Saturn.

Well, there are a lot of very strange images taken of Mars out there.

There are many definitions of what is called "life" ~ reducing something to an object, when it is animated, especially those things of nature, does not exactly fit the mere description of an "object" or "mass" created by the "environment." All of the Earth is alive, even the planet itself is living.