I thought that if anyone is interested in trying to understand each others beliefs better we could discuss it here. I am a non believer of God, I am forever going off topic trying to understand what others believe, namely in why they believe in God, but of course other religions can be bought into this, so maybe we can communicate here to try and understand why others believe in what they do.
If anyone wants to start by explaining WHY they believe in God and what they believe they will get from from it please do.

I have never not believed in a creator (or creators)... well, I can't remember when I didn't. From when I was a child I felt the presence of something. I am an artist, and to me design is so important, and in this world of ours I see design in everything. The scientific process of evolution, without the assistance of a creator, makes no sense to me... that everything around me could be the result of a sequence of events which were unplanned and occurred without a guiding hand is just not logical for me. Perhaps my artistic nature is what makes my faith in the existence of a creator an intrinsic part of my character.

My belief that we are not alone was strengthened when I was ill at the beginning of the year. I experienced something when I came very close to leaving this mortal coil that I can't quite explain, but it left me even more certain that something is out there, and that death is not the end of our existence.

What do I get from my beliefs? Well... peace I think.

I too always believed from a really early age. I always felt there was "something" there - all the time.

I think it is peculiar how, the world over, every single country and people within those countries mention God, not everyone believes in God of course, but if you say the word God everyone knows in what area you are talking about. I have never heard of someone saying (after the word God was mentioned) "What's a God, or what's God?".

Even remote tribes believe there is "something" and these may be people who have never mixed with outsiders at all.

All very curious!!

I know there is a God because of the conversations I have. When I reflect on my experiences in life I get some insight but it leaves many things unclear. After the conversation I not only have the insights but a feeling of being loved that is not definable.

I do not expect to get anything from my joyfulness, it just is.

John

God’s word is the food for our soul, if we refuse to eat and starve our soul to death who is to blame

Knowledge and truth are like food. If it is served without nourishment it is useless.
Truth needs to be nurtured as food needs to be nourishing.

I am not a religious person as it was religious people that caused my Lord to be hung on the cross.

Actually I was a devout atheist into my mid twenties. It was my personal goal to destroy others faith with sound reasoning and logic. I arrived at a point were I was unable to argue anymore and said a personal prayer to the supposed God at that time and asked him to prove himself to me. And He met my personal challenge. And now I am eternally thankful.
In much the same way I feel that my Christian beliefs are better expressed in how I live and what I do.
And if I am asked why I am that way? I will be happy to share my faith.

The truth is sadly that as humans we are lazy thinkers. We want more than anything else to believe in something beyond our small existence and seemingly unimportant lives. When some one comes up with a plausible explanation for everything we would like to know we are all to ready to except it as long as they will do the thinking for us and it suits our lifestyle without making to much work for us.
God gave every man and women reason and intellect. Or we would not be able to comprehend what our purpose was designed for, nor understand His written word.
Wisdom and education go hand in hand. Even Jesus when choosing the apostles picked intelligent free thinkers to spread the gospel.
An example was Luke who was a physician, a man of science and reason.

For thousands of years man has believed first, that he could fly like the birds. That proof has only been with us for the past one hundred years. It was first an attractive idea that is now possible. It was once but a dream of many men and became a reality for the Wright brothers.
We know inside of us lies an unbiological/unmaterial entity we deem to be the soul. Without believing first we will never identify it.

Irish

Do you mind me asking how he met your personal challenge? I ask because I have never been a non-believer, or at least I don't remember a time when I was one... I seem to have grown up with my faith, and I often wonder how it feels to find it later in life. I've never been without my beliefs.



That's very true... people seem so willing to believe whatever is fed to them. No thought goes into it. We're all so willing to believe without questioning... whether it's the word of a preacher or the word of a scientist.

The challenge was of a personal nature that no one but me and God knows about, I asked for it to be this way so that I would not be clouded with pre-conceived notions or expectations.

Non Believers have an ability that is no longer available to believers.
That ability is to challenge God to prove His existence to you as an individual.
He will reveal Himself to each soul in His creation on a personal level that you can only share but not give.
Do NOT take this challenge lightly for many it is a life long formulation of that proof.
First you must recognize that we as humans are indeed a product of divine creation.
Then communication with the creator is possible.
Ernest prayer asking for revelation of His existence.
And be prepared for a startling answer.
I will Caution you again do not take this challenge lightly as it will be the most important thing you will do in your entire lifetime.

Life is a gift of God you have chosen to accept the finite version of it or you would not be with us now. If you like the gift you have an opportunity to keep it, you just have to return to the original dealership and sign the contract. But you are under no obligation to do so if you choose.

All the Best
Irish

Thank you so much to everyone who has posted so far, I think it's so interesting to understand believers. I hope others are getting something out of this also. I am not here to argue one way or another, but I may question some times. Everything from 'something' to feeling loved and getting feelings of joyfulness to God replying to a personal challenge, seems everyone has so many different reasons. Shadow Hill, I find yours interesting because if I remember rightly your Mum is such an Athiest but you cannot even remember a time when you were not a believer, you mention the 'something' also.
The 'something' you mention Lotus Flower is a good concept by comparing it to remote tribes. It is very curious. I also like Irish's statement above, I find that very inspiring to me. I don't get though how you are not religious, are you differenciating being religious from belief in God? I started this post because I am sitting on a fence with the whole God issue and need it clarified to me for my own peace of mind, I can't just let it go... As a non-believer I am in a constant state of doubt about God's existance. Believers seem so sure as they have had their belief verified in a way. I don't and think I will never believe in a Heaven or Hell, Creator concept but could be open to a God in the spiritual way.

Jesus defined religious people as those that visit the sick, widowed or orphans. So I guess sometimes I can be a religious person. I see religious people who go to church every Sunday and look down on those who don’t. Like the Pharisees that Jesus had to deal with all the time. The church is “Where two or more are gathered in my name” Jesus. That could be on a hill by a river or in someone’s back kitchen the church is not a building or a structure of any kind. I am simply a non-denominational Christian, who believes that Christ provided a way to be re-united with our Creator. He did not say find yourselves a pompous leader and give him a funny hat to wear and start collecting taxes to support his luxury lifestyle. In fact He said nothing about forming religious organizations; He fellowshipped, ate and worshiped with the very people the religious people looked down upon He just wanted us to enjoy fellowship among those of like mindedness
And although not religiously I try to emulate the way He lived and taught and acted, not for any gain or rewards but simply because it was good and caring. He was a model human being while He walked the earth experiencing the same things we experience day to day, joy, pain, tears and friendships. A creator that is willing to walk in the shoes of His creation proves that He is a loving God in my opinion.

All the best
Irish

Bang! ......B

I don't believe in a creator or a group of creators, but there just may be a group of beings that do guide our footsteps from time to time. Generally we are left to our own devices.

Comrades, comrades! No belief is true no matter how theoretically correct it is for the very reaons it is a belief. Truth is free from belief and is a knowing. I myself because I am unenlightened believe there is no creator or creation. There just is an isness which is beyond the literary and mental projection of being called an isness.

I love you all because I am all of you and you are all of me. There is no you and me there is just one oneness. No God, no soul, no physical world, no imaginary world just something that never gave rise to any of these things because these things have eternally existed.

Yes, my mum is an atheist, always has been. She was brought up by a Christian father and uncertain mother. My father was brought up a Catholic, but he has no faith. So two parents who don't believe managed to raise two girls who do. I asked my sister how she came to believe, and she can't remember either. My religious education teachers were very odd, and they ceratinly didn't influence me to believe... if anything one of them was more likely to make you run in the opposite direction.

I am not religious either... like Irish. There are a lot of non-believers sitting in church on Sundays... mortal saints doing "good works" and enjoying their pats on the back. I live above two people who are like that, and they are the most evil (and I really mean that) people I've ever encountered. I don't need to go to a building and be preached at or judged by a load of biddies who have too much time on their hands and way too much interest in their neighbours' lives.

"Comrades, comrades! No belief is true no matter how theoretically correct it is for the very reaons it is a belief. Truth is free from belief and is a knowing." Funny enough Brave I just used this same theory to try and answer a question in What Faith Is but you summed it up in 2 sentences when it took me a whole paragraph!
Your answer is so intriguing.
You blow me away with your thoughts, just when I think I may have you figured out you go and throw me in the deep end again..lol...I love you too Brave, you stimulate my mind like no other.

Fantastic take on things Irish.

Brave, did I ever tell you, you have a way with words .

This is so interesting, you and Irish both are not religious but believe in God, wow, I never knew you could be that way, really, this is what it is boiling down to for me, I don't want to be termed religious but maybe can accept God into my life, how enlightening for me, thanks.

"I'll always be a wordman....." - Jim Morrison
hehehehe

That's my mate Jimmy!

I think in the modern world people are too easily willing not to believe in a divine entity.

Which may not be just due to the scientific achievments of the last few centuries.

In my case analysing scientific knowledge available today and reading up on Quran as an example has reinforced my belief in Allah(God).

Let me elaborate further what i am talking about.

When i read the Quran, simply speaking some parts of it remind me of the Discovery channel!

I dont know how many of you watch the discovery channel but there are many documentaries on nature science physics astronomy etc etc

Now the goal of most of the programs is not to impart exact scientific knowlede but to inspire you, to awe you.

As an example a program may comment on how DNA codes a living organisms physical form but it wont tell you how its done. That knowledge is too detailed actually maynot be understood by the common man on the street and may actually be found boring by the average man.

When i read the Quran i find something very similar.

There are multiple passages about the beauty of this universe. The beauty of things that are in motion. Stars and planets drifting in space. Rain evaporating from the seas falling on ground helping seedlings to rise. Availibility of animals tools other physical phenomenon that are present for man to utilize.

Going back to my earlier point.

There is an idiom which says "little knwoledge is dangerous"

Which basically means you are going to do more harm if you know a little about something vs if you knew nothing about that thing at all.

The Quran says it clearly this is the last book humanity is getting from God before the end of time. There were prophets before as well as miracles as well as signs from God.

Before man would actually be punished and rewarded on this earth. There are example of floods of earth quakes on races that didnt heed Gods word. There are examples of pious people being rewarded for their actions.

There is a mention of holy men prophets blessed with power of miracles.

Classic example of this is Jesus being blessed with powers such as healing leprosy.

Things have changed drastically since the time of prophet Muhammad.

There is much technological advancement has taken place.

Since roughly around that time there has been a great advancement in records keeping as well. eg free availibilty of paper, printing press, computers, video etc etc . We can be pretty sure about our recent history than history >1600 years ago.

The amount of scientific achievement has been logarithmic to say the least.

If man's knowledge has swelled should it become easier to believe in God???

Well no in my opinion because that the same time there have been no miracles!!!!!

There have been no people with special powers, there has been no food descending from the skies etc etc

This actually is promised in the Quran where it clearly states that this is the last book and guidance from God and it will be there till the end of time and Muhammad was my last messanger.

When you look at scientific explanation of God superficially there cant be a God. Occams Razor where is God why he isnt showing Himself.

Now if you read Quran it clearly states be patient He is not going to show miracles or reveal Himself yet. But He has given signs for those who wanto think and ponder and wanto find God.

This is where my discovery channel analogy comes into play. As we continue to undestand more and more about the yet unrevealed knowledge of this universe we cannot but marvel and be awed. This is repeatedly mentioned almost everwhere in the Quran. And 1 of the things which i find truly amazing is the mention of the "things you dont know about yet".

This tells you there is more beauty of our existence and this universe that has yet to be revealed.

When I originally posted on this thread I considered myself to be a person who had faith. I felt that I had a relationship with my creator, I believed in the power of prayer, I believed in God's presence in the here and now... an involvement in man's development. Whilst I wasn't a Christian, I believed it was entirely possible that the being who created us all could indeed have given us his son. I didn't believe he had, but I believed it was possible... if you see what I mean.

Since then my beliefs have changed. I still look around me and see signs of design, and from that I deduce that with design comes a designer... therefore the earth, and us upon it, were created by a creator. But I do not base my belief in faith. I do not look to religious texts for answers. I do not believe I have a personal relationship with that creator. I do not believe that our creator participates in any event, or has participated in any event, since our creation took place.

What do I get from my belief? Nothing. The existence of a creator does not impact upon me as I do not know him, so what should I get from it. What do I get from seeing the beauty of what has been created... a lot of happiness.

In the end, I agree, 300%.

What we do on Earth is basically to satisfy our moment to moment needs, which may also include the need to be totally conscious of the Truth, It, Pure Energy, God, the beyond-our-earthly-mind of isness, and so on -- semantics or not, politically correct or not, trendy or not.

Is wanting to know the Truth really a need, or is it something more: the Truth is already us but merely shaded by the mind and body??? Since need is of the mind and body, Truth will shine through eventually. Whatever will be, will be, in the end. "There are no accidents," so people say. And we all have our bills to pay and so on, for now. The mind and body must do their 'dance,' while on Earth. So, let's 'party' 'til the break o' dawn.

One way to 'party' is to just sit quietly in one of the proper yoga sitting posture for an hour, and longer eventually.

Thank you so much to everyone who participated in my thread. I really appreciated your time.

This quote will cook your noodle:

And if we are asked what makes the law of logic true, we can in this and in many other cases provide a proof. But this proof in its turn relies upon some law of logic. (Ayer)

lol my noodles are cooked. That makes so much sense, I really love it. Proof is something that I endlessly think about and I think you know that already.
"When is proof proof?" Good one my friend.

I love you and glad you liked it. Here is another quote that articulates the same thing in different words.

All proofs inevitably lead to propositions that have no proof. All things are known because we want to believe in them.

Bene Gesserit Azhar Book

HAHAHAHAHA I love Frank Herbert

Frank Herbert was an amazing philosopher. If you read the dune series you get such a philosophical education that you cant help be a philosopher. He was sooooooooooooo deep.

I must say, Brave, that is genius!!!! I will endeavour to add Frank Herbert to my list of 'books to read'. Since I am already a "philosopher in training" lol, I am very interested in what he has to say already. I have touched base with Dune but have not taken the time to really acknowledge what it's about.

Talking of quotes I just came across a really 'philosophical' one that I think you will already be aware of so I will not tell you who said it because I think you already know.... "We must be the change we wish to see".
I love your love, you are so loving, if only we could adapt the above quote to that for all......

Awww that was so sweet. And I wont say who said it for risking to look like a know it all.

Since I'm in a quotey mood I'll give you another one that I was going to add into your "Enlightenment" topic but it is just for you as a response to what you have just said: "It is better to be called a visionary and know the truth than to be called enlightened and not know the truth." (eek should I say it...Rael)

The "concept" of God was taught to me by my mother and father as a child. The "reason" I believe in Him is because of the things I have experienced in my life as an adult. Narrow escapes, things turning out better than I could have planned, disasters avoided, and unexplained comfort when sorrow has surrounded me are but a few of the reasons I believe in God. What I expect to get "from" believing in Him is life everlasting "with" Him. Zoneesha

While I'm on Earth, and since I assume that my God is infinite, my belief system is ever changing for the better. I believe it's for the better because of the "good" things in my life. Besides, the world has a way of reinforcing and challenging my belief system. I've also been through quite a lot in this particular lifetime (without giving any details).

It is a personal journey, after all. And I have eliminate many, not all, of the superstitions of my upbringing and this current life's journey. I believe it is a big challenge to really look at one's self, instead of just reading books, listening to hearsay, and so on. Again, the world is always there to polish up my state of consciousness, for me to basically deal with what's in front of me, not just dabbling into a bunch of theories.

I am a polytheist and I believe in many Gods and Goddesses. I believe in them cause they have spoken to me and revealed themselves to me. What I get out of them is strength, wisdom, and joy. What more can I ask for.

I suppose my beliefs could be described as nihilism, I don't believe in a god, nor do I believe in a purpose for our existence. I think that when people ask questions and are satisfied with answers concerning faith, they are just looking for any answer. I have never experienced anything or seen any evidence to indicate to me that there is a god or any metaphysical being in control of our existence