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Waspie_Dwarf
QUOTE (stevewinn @ Jun 5 2008, 01:40 PM) *
when i was looking at the digging area, the area seems small to me, wouldn't it have been better sending a rover instead of a lander, at least with a rover you can drive to an object,

With this mission there is no really interest in driving to an object. The mission is to dig beneath the surface, look for ice and to analyse it. As depth is more important than surface area there is no need for the craft to move. This mission is better achieved with a stationary lander.

A rover compromises ability for mobility, the weight of wheels, driver motors, etc mean a reduction in the weight of scientific equipment carried. There is also added complexity so more that can go wrong and the need for powerful computers to autonomously drive the rover (Mars is fat to distant to use remote control, a Mars must recognise and avoid hazards by itself). No such compromises are necessary with Phoenix.
Waspie_Dwarf
Scale of Phoenix Optical Microscope Images
06.05.08

linked-image

This set of pictures gives context for the size of individual images from the Optical Microscope on NASA's Mars Phoenix Lander.

The picture in the upper left was taken on Mars by the Surface Stereo Imager on Phoenix. It shows a portion of the microscope's sample stage exposed to accept a sample. In this case, the sample was of dust kicked up by the spacecraft thrusters during landers. Later samples will include soil delivered by the Robotic Arm.

The other pictures were taken on Earth. They show close-ups of circular substrates on which the microscopic samples rest when the microscope images them. Each circular substrate target is 3 millimeters (about one-tenth of an inch) in diameter. Each image taken by the microscope covers and area 2 millimeters by 1 millimeter (0.08 inch by 0.04 inch), the size of a large grain of sand.

The Optical Microscope is part of Phoenix's Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer (MECA) instrument suite.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University

› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
Highest Resolution Image of Dust and Sand Yet Acquired on Mars
06.05.08

linked-image

This mosaic of four side-by-side microscope images (one a color composite) was acquired by the Optical Microscope, a part of the Microscopy, Electrochemistry, and Conductivity Analyzer (MECA) instrument suite on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander. Taken on the ninth Martian day of the mission, or Sol 9 (June 3, 2008), the image shows a 3 millimeter (0.12 inch) diameter silicone target after it has been exposed to dust kicked up by the landing. It is the highest resolution image of dust and sand ever acquired on Mars. The silicone substrate provides a sticky surface for holding the particles to be examined by the microscope.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona

› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
Martian Particles on Microscope's Silicone Substrate
06.05.08

linked-image

The color composite image on the right was acquired by the Optical Microscope, a part of the Microscopy, Electrochemistry, and Conductivity Analyzer (MECA) instrument suite on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander.

The image was taken on the ninth Martian day of the mission, or Sol 9 (June 3, 2008). Comparison with a black-and-white image (left) acquired during Phoenix's flight from Earth to Mars, identifies new particles deposited during the landing event. The particles are presumably samples from the Martian surface, although contamination from the lander itself cannot be ruled out. Most particles are the typical reddish-brown of the Martian surface, but some are translucent.

The particles are on a silcone substrate target 3 millimeters (0.12 inch) in diameter, which provides a sticky surface for holding the particles while the microscope images them. Blow-ups of four of the larger particles are shown in the center. These particles range in size from about 30 microns to 150 microns (from about one one-thousandth of an inch to six one-thousandths of an inch).

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona

› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
Possible Nature of Particles Viewed by Mars Lander's Optical Microscope
06.05.08

linked-image

The color composite on the right was acquired by the Optical Microscope, a part of the Microscopy, Electrochemistry, and Conductivity Analyzer (MECA) instrument suite on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander. The image was taken on the ninth Martian day of the mission, or Sol 9 (June 3, 2008) to examine dust that had fallen onto an exposed surface. The translucent particle highlighted at bottom center is of comparable size to white particles in a Martian soil sample (upper pictures) seen two sols earlier inside the scoop of Phoenix's Robotic Arm as imaged by the lander's Robotic Arm Camera. The white particles may be examples of the abundant salts that have been found in the Martian soil by previous missions. Further investigations will be needed to determine the white material's composition and whether translucent particles like the one in this microscopic image are found in Martian soil samples.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona

› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Bulldog1974
Waspie,

How deep can the lander dig? and can it dig through ice deposits?
Waspie_Dwarf
QUOTE (Bulldog1974 @ Jun 5 2008, 11:36 PM) *
How deep can the lander dig? and can it dig through ice deposits?

I don't know and I think so (in that order).
DONTEATUS
A quote: I find it impossible to tell whether you make draft comments like this because you are joking or not. Either way I tend to ignore them. post 183 By Waspie Dwarf. Now Heres what I said Great pics! question Waspie on post 172 a color image theres a rock to the left hand top of the pic looks like it was pushed? As I exactly ask in post 182 " Do you have any info? about the rock being moved? Look closer to the trail under teh rock. To be rude is to be ignored. Two times you have been rude to me in here. This is a forum. rolleyes.gif
Waspie_Dwarf
QUOTE
As I exactly ask in post 182 \" Do you have any info? about the rock being moved? Look closer to the trail under teh rock. To be rude is to be ignored.

That IS NOT exactly what you said (misquoting is against the rules of this site), you ACTUALLY said was:
QUOTE
great pics ! question waspie on post 172 a color image theres a rock to the left hand top of the pic looks like it was pushed? Do you have any info? Did the scoop push a rock to see what might crawl out from under it? DONTEATUS cool.gif

It is the part I have highlighted (and the part you saw fit to leave out of your quote) that I called daft and ignored, the rest I answered.

The point I am trying to make DONTEATUS, is that comments such as the ones you continuously make don\'t make you like funny they make you look daft because it is impossible to tell if you are serious or not when you post nonsense.

QUOTE
Two times you have been rude to me in here.

If you feel I am being rude then hit the report button in future.

QUOTE
This is a forum. rolleyes.gif

Indeed and it has rules, please read them and try to follow them.

Now back on topic.
Saru
QUOTE (DONTEATUS @ Jun 6 2008, 04:16 AM) *
A quote: I find it impossible to tell whether you make draft comments like this because you are joking or not. Either way I tend to ignore them. post 183 By Waspie Dwarf. Now Heres what I said Great pics! question Waspie on post 172 a color image theres a rock to the left hand top of the pic looks like it was pushed? As I exactly ask in post 182 " Do you have any info? about the rock being moved? Look closer to the trail under teh rock. To be rude is to be ignored. Two times you have been rude to me in here. This is a forum. rolleyes.gif

The point here is that when you regularly joke around in your responses it's difficult to know when you are being serious, injecting humour in to your posts can be a welcome diversion from the discussion but when done too often it can become quite exasperating.

Lets stick to the topic and try to keep the responses as sensible as possible please.

Thank you.
Waspie_Dwarf
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Ready to Gather Samples
06.06.08

TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander made its first dig into Martian soil for science studies and is poised to deliver the scoopful to a laboratory instrument on the lander deck.

The instrument will bake and sniff the soil to assess its volatile ingredients, such as water.

Commands were received by Phoenix Friday, June 6, for the spacecraft's Robotic Arm to dump the sample into an opened door on the instrument called the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA.

linked-image
This image shows the Robotic Arm scoop containing
a soil sample poised over the partially open door
of the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer's number
four cell, or oven.
Image credit: NASA/JPL-Calech/University of
Arizona


"It's looks like a good sample for us," said Peter Smith, Phoenix principal investigator at the University of Arizona, Tucson. "Over the next few days, and it may be as much as a week, the TEGA instrument will be analyzing this sample."

Phoenix's Robotic Arm collected the sample of clumpy, reddish material from the top 2 to 4 centimeters (0.8 to 1.6 inches) of surface material at a site informally named "Baby Bear" on the north side of the lander. In the past week, engineers had used the arm to collect two practice scoops adjacent to Baby Bear and dump those scoopfuls back onto the surface. They have prepared for years with simulations and versions of the arm on Earth.

"It's like being on a football team and having a pre-season that lasted five years, and now we're finally playing first game," said Matt Robinson, of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. He is the robotic arm flight software lead for the Phoenix team.

The move was calculated to get enough material to be sure to get some delivered into the instrument without inundating the instrument with unnecessary extra soil. "We're ecstatic that we got a quarter to a third of a scoopful," Robinson said.

The TEGA instrument will begin analyzing the sample for water and mineral content after it has analyzed a sample of the Martian atmosphere. Water can be bound to minerals, such as clays or carbonates, and it takes more heat to drive the water off some minerals than others. This is how the instrument can identify some minerals in the soil.

"We are particularly interested in minerals that are formed or altered by the action of liquid water in the soil," Smith said.

The Phoenix mission is led by Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit:: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.

Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov

Sara Hammond 520-626-1974
University of Arizona, Tucson
shammond@lpl.arizona.edu

2008-101


Source: NASA - Phoenix - News
Waspie_Dwarf
Soil Sample Poised at TEGA Door
06.06.08

linked-image

This image was taken by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Surface Stereo Imager on Sol 11 (June 5, 2008), the eleventh day after landing. It shows the Robotic Arm scoop containing a soil sample poised over the partially open door of the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer's number four cell, or oven.

Light-colored clods of material visible toward the scoop's lower edge may be part of the crusted surface material seen previously near the foot of the lander. The material inside the scoop has been slightly brightened in this image.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University


› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
"Dodo" and "Baby Bear" Trenches
06.06.08

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NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Surface Stereo Imager took this image on Sol 11 (June 5, 2008), the eleventh day after landing. It shows the trenches dug by Phoenix's Robotic Arm. The trench on the left is informally called "Dodo" and was dug as a test. The trench on the right is informally called "Baby Bear." The sample dug from Baby Bear will be delivered to the Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. The Baby Bear trench is 9 centimeters (3.1 inches) wide and 4 centimeters (1.6 inches) deep.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University


› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
Martian Soil Ready for Robotic Laboratory Analysis
06.06.08

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NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander scooped up this Martian soil on the mission's 11th Martian day, or sol, after landing (June 5, 2008) as the first soil sample for delivery to the laboratory on the lander deck.

The material includes a light-toned clod possibly from crusted surface of the ground, similar in appearance to clods observed near a foot of the lander.

This approximately true-color view of the contents of the scoop on the Robotic Arm comes from combining separate images taken by the Robotic Arm Camera on Sol 11, using illumination by red, green and blue light-emitting diodes on the camera.

The scoop loaded with this sample was poised over an open sample-delivery door of Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer at the end of Sol 11, ready to be dumped into the instrument on the next sol.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Max Planck Institute


› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Checking Soil Properties
06.07.08

TUCSON, Ariz. -- The arm of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander released a handful of clumpy Martian soil onto a screened opening of a laboratory instrument on the spacecraft Friday, but the instrument did not confirm that any of the sample passed through the screen.

Engineers and scientists on the Phoenix team assembled at the University of Arizona are determining the best approach to get some of that material into the instrument. Meanwhile, the team has developed commands for the spacecraft to use cameras and the Robotic Arm on Saturday to study how strongly the soil from the top layer of the surface clings together into clumps.

linked-image
The Robotic Arm of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander
released a sample of Martian soil onto a screened
opening of the lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas
Analyzer (TEGA) during the 12th Martian day, or
sol, since landing (June 6, 2008).
Image credit: NASA/JPL-Calech/University of
Arizona/Max Planck Institute


Images taken Friday show soil resting on the screen over an open sample-delivery door of Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, an instrument for identifying some key ingredients. The screen is designed to let through particles up to one-millimeter (0.04 inch) across while keeping out larger particles, in order to prevent clogging a funnel pathway to a tiny oven inside. An infrared beam crossing the pathway checks whether particles are entering the instrument and breaking the beam.

The researchers have not yet determined why none of the sample appears to have gotten past the screen, but they have begun proposing possibilities.

"I think it's the cloddiness of the soil and not having enough fine granular material," said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, the Phoenix team's science lead for Saturday and digging czar for the mission.

"In the future, we may prepare the soil by pushing down on the surface with the arm before scooping up the material to break it up, then sprinkle a smaller amount over the door," he said.

Another strategy under consideration is to use mechanical shakers inside the TEGA instrument differently than the five minutes of shaking that was part of the sample-receiving process on Friday. No activities for the instrument are planned for Saturday, while the team refines plans for diagnostic tests.

Phoenix's planned activities for Saturday include horizontally extending a trench where the lander dug two practice scoops earlier this week, and taking additional images of a small pile of soil that was scooped up and dropped onto the surface during the second of those practice digs.

"We are hoping to learn more about the soil's physical properties at this site," Arvidson said. "It may be more cohesive than what we have seen at earlier Mars landing sites."

The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.

Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov

Sara Hammond 520-626-1974
University of Arizona, Tucson
shammond@lpl.arizona.edu


Source: NASA - Phoenix - News
Waspie_Dwarf
Martian Soil Delivery to Analytical Instrument on Phoenix
06.07.08

linked-image

The Robotic Arm of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander released a sample of Martian soil onto a screened opening of the lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA) during the 12th Martian day, or sol, since landing (June 6, 2008). TEGA did not confirm that any of the sample had passed through the screen.

The Robotic Arm Camera took this image on Sol 12. Soil from the sample delivery is visible on the sloped surface of TEGA, which has a series of parallel doors. The two doors for the targeted cell of TEGA are the one positioned vertically, at far right, and the one partially open just to the left of that one. The soil between those two doors is resting on a screen designed to let fine particles through while keeping bigger ones from clogging the interior of the instrument. Each door is about 10 centimeters (4 inches) long.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Max Planck Institute


› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
Soil Delivery to Phoenix Oven
06.07.08

linked-image

This image shows a view from NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Stereo Surface Imager's left eye after delivery of soil to the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA), taken on the 12th Martian day after landing (Sol 12, June 6, 2008).

Soil is visible on both sides of the open doors of TEGA's #4 oven. Sensors inside the device indicate no soil passed through the screen and into the oven.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University


› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
stevewinn
i wonder if fine particles have entered the "tester" but the laser/sensors that detects the fine particles entering isnt working correctly is this a possibility?

waspie, whats the white round thing to the left of the US flag it looks like a CD, what does that piece of kit do? do you know?

Incorrigible1
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Dirt that the Phoenix Mars Lander scooped recently from the planet's surface may be too clumpy to be analyzed by the machine's onboard system, NASA reported on Saturday.

A robotic arm retrieved a cup-sized sample of Martian dirt on Friday and placed it on the lander's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, which was scheduled to spend about a week determining the soil's water and mineral content.

The TEGA features a screened opening that prevents large particles from clogging it. Only those thinner than 1 mm (0.04 of an inch) can pass through, and an infrared beam verifies whether they have entered the instrument.

The beam has not yet confirmed any activity and researchers are not sure why, NASA said in a statement.

Scientists suspect the soil may be clumped together too tightly, NASA said.

"In the future, we may prepare the soil by pushing down on the surface ... then sprinkle a smaller amount over the door," Ray Arvidson, the team's science lead, said in the statement.

Engineers are also looking for a way to shake some of the current sample down into the TEGA oven, where it would be heated and analyzed.

Scientists may send instructions to vibrate the compartment after they inspect the problem for a day or two, spokeswoman Sara Hammond said. ............


...............This is the lander's first attempt to analyze soil, which might contain salt left behind by evaporated water or ice.

The single-use compartment will go unused if scientists are unable to coax any particles to fall down, but there are seven others like it onboard, Hammond said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews...lBrandChannel=0
Waspie_Dwarf
QUOTE (stevewinn @ Jun 8 2008, 11:42 AM) *
waspie, whats the white round thing to the left of the US flag it looks like a CD, what does that piece of kit do? do you know?

It is a CD. It contains a library of works of fiction about Mars and the manes of 250,000 space enthusiasts and members of the planetary society (including mine). It was provided by the Planetary Society. There is more on the CD in THIS ARTICLE at space.com.
Waspie_Dwarf
Phoenix Sifts for Samples, Continues Imaging Landing Site
06.08.08

On Sunday, Sol 14 of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander mission, mechanical shakers inside the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer will attempt to loosen clumped soils on the device's screens to allow material to fall into the oven for analysis later in the week.

The commands for this shaking action were to be sent to the spacecraft late morning Sunday, Pacific Daylight Time, and results will be reported Monday, June 9. Also on Sol 14, the robotic arm will acquire a sample from the "Baby Bear" site intended for the MECA microscopy station. Delivery of that sample will occur no earlier than Sol 16, after testing is done to sprinkle the sample.

linked-image
The Robotic Arm on Phoenix took this image on
the mission's 13th day, or sol, on Mars
four cell, or oven.
Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Univ. of Ariz.


A camera on Phoenix continues to image the area close to the spacecraft to extend scientists' knowledge of the landing area and work sites.

Phoenix's Robotic Arm Camera on Saturday took additional images of areas close to and under the lander unreachable by the larger Surface Stereo Imager (SSI), said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, Phoenix co-investigator for the Robotic Arm.

"We are mapping with the Robotic Arm Camera where the SSI can't see to extend our knowledge of the site and to see details of the polygon structures of the near field, close to the lander," Arvidson said.

An image from the Robotic Arm Camera taken Saturday and other raw images are at:
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=3402&cID=51

On May 30, images taken under the lander showed the descent thrusters had cleared dirt from a smooth patch of either ice or rock. That area has been informally named "Snow Queen." Mission scientists continue to examine that feature.

The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.

Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov

Sara Hammond 520-626-1974
University of Arizona, Tucson
shammond@lpl.arizona.edu


Source: NASA - Phoenix - News
Waspie_Dwarf
Small Effect of Vibrating Martian Soil Sample on Oven Door
06.09.08

linked-image

In both images of this before-and-after sequence, a sample of Martian soil rests on a screen over the opening to one of the eight ovens of the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer instrument (TEGA) on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander. Between the times at which the lander's Robotic Arm Camera took these images during the mission's 14th Martian day after landing (June 8, 2008), TEGA vibrated the screen for about seven minutes.

The TEGA oven doors are on a surface sloping at about 45 degrees, with the top of the doors near the lower edge of these images. The downhill direction on this part of the instrument appears upwards in the image. The screen-covered opening for the oven intended to analyze this soil sample is between the vertically positioned door at the right end of the series of doors and the partially opened door to the left of that one. The screen is covered with soil in this pair of images, but visible in a view from about the same angle taken before the soil was delivered, at http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA10769. For scale, the doors are about 10 centimeters (4 inches) long.

The "before" image here is the one in which the circular feature near the top of the image is more brightly lit. In the image taken after about seven minutes of shaking, the soil resting on the screen has slumped almost imperceptibly downhill. A dark gap about 3 millimeters (one-tenth of an inch) wide opened at the top edge of the screen.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Max Planck Institute

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Testing Sprinkle Technique
06.09.08

TUCSON, Ariz. -- Engineers operating the Robotic Arm on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander are testing a revised method for delivering soil samples to laboratory instruments on Phoenix's deck now that researchers appreciate how clumpy the soil is at the landing site.

"We're a little surprised at how much this material is clumping together when we dig into it," said Doug Ming a Phoenix science team member from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston.

linked-image
In both images of this before-and-after sequence,
a sample of Martian soil rests on a screen over the
opening to one of the eight ovens of the Thermal
and Evolved-Gas Analyzer instrument (TEGA) on
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander. Between the times
at which the lander's Robotic Arm Camera took
these images during the mission's 14th Martian day
after landing (June 8, 2008), TEGA vibrated the
screen for about seven minutes.
Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of
Arizona/Max Planck Institute


The soil's physical properties are proving to be a challenge for getting a sample intended for one instrument to pass through a screen over a delivery opening. The instrument is the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Anaylzer, or TEGA, designed to bake and sniff samples to identify some key ingredients. The analyzer vibrated the screen for 20 minutes on Sunday but detected only a few particles getting through the screen, not enough to fill the tiny oven below.

"We are going to try vibrating it one more time, and if that doesn't work, it is likely we will use our new, revised delivery method on another thermal analyzer cell," said William Boynton of the University of Arizona, lead scientist for the instrument.

The arm delivered the first sample to TEGA on Friday by turning the scoop over to release its contents. The revised delivery method, which Phoenix is testing for the first time today, will hold the scoop at an angle above the delivery target and sprinkle out a small amount of the sample by vibrating the scoop. The vibration comes from running a motorized rasp on the bottom of the scoop.

Phoenix used the arm Sunday to collect a soil sample for the spacecraft's Optical Microscope. Today's plans include a practice of the sprinkle technique, using a small amount of soil from the sample collected Sunday. If that goes well, the Phoenix team assembled at the University of Arizona plans to sprinkle material from the same scoopful onto the microscope later this week.

The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.

Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov

Sara Hammond 520-626-1974
University of Arizona, Tucson
shammond@lpl.arizona.edu


Source: NASA - Phoenix - News
Waspie_Dwarf
Clumps in Phoenix Scoop
06.09.08

linked-image

This sample of Martian soil was collected by the NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander during the 14th Martian day after landing (June 8, 2008) for later delivery to the lander's Optical Microscope. The Robotic Arm Camera took the picture of the contents of the arm's scoop, about 9 centimeters (3.5 inches) wide.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Max Planck Institute


› Full resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
TEGA Whirligig Model
06.09.08

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This is a photo of an engineering model of the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer (TEGA) instrument on board NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander. This view shows a TEGA oven-loading mechanism beneath the input screen. The screen on the 1-and-1/2-inch-wide funnel has been removed in this model to show the whirligig that is suspended from the screw on the shaft. The black hole underneath is the porthole that leads to the oven.

A tiny electric current compresses and releases a spring on the shaft. As the shaft spins, the screw bumps the screen, breaking up clumps of material into fine particles so they pass through the one millimeter-square screen openings. The energy applied to the tapping screen is about 0.02 inch per pound, or the force needed to move a one-pound mass two-hundredths of an inch.

The screw also lifts the three-bladed whirligig so that it jostles fine particles and keeps the oven port open to aid the loading process.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image Credit: University of Arizona


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Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
Metal Spring near Phoenix Footpad
06.09.08

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This image, acquired by the Robotic Arm Camera on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander, shows a spring on the ground under the lander near a footpad. This spring was released from the lander when the biobarrier was opened to free the Robotic Arm. This image was taken on the sixth Martian day of the mission (May 30, 2008).

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Max Planck Institute

View full resolution image

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
Robotic Arm Biobarrier Cable
06.09.08

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This image, taken by the Surface Stereo Imager on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander on the 14th Martian day of the mission (June 7, 2008), shows the cable that held the Robotic Arm's biobarrier in place during flight has snapped. The cable's springs retracted to release the biobarrier right after landing.

To the lower right of the image a spring is visible. Extending from that spring is a length of cable that snapped during the biobarrier's release. A second spring separated from the cable when it snapped and has been photographed on the ground under the lander near one of the legs.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University

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Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
NASA Lander Will Sprinkle Martian Soil for Microscope to View
06.10.08

TUCSON, Ariz. -- The team operating NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander plans to instruct the spacecraft in the next few days to use its Robotic Arm to sprinkle a spoonful of Martian soil onto a wheel that will rotate the sample into place for viewing by the spacecraft's Optical Microscope.

Meanwhile, commands for Phoenix's activities today are to continue a set of atmosphere observations begun during the Martian evening earlier Tuesday in coordination with overhead passes of NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. These take advantage of opportunities for instruments on Phoenix and on the orbiter to examine the same column of atmosphere simultaneously from above and below.

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Phoenix used its Robotic Arm during the mission's
15th Martian day since landing (June 9, 2008) to
test a "sprinkle" method for delivering small
samples of soil to instruments on the lander deck.
Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of
Arizona/Texas A&M


"It allows us to put the Phoenix measurements into global perspective and gives a ground level calibration for the orbiter's measurements," said Phoenix Project Scientist Leslie Tamppari of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.

On Monday, Phoenix tested delivering Martian soil by sprinkling it rather than dumping it. The positive result prompted researchers not only to proceed with plans for delivery to the microscope, but also to plan on sprinkling a sample in the near future into one of the eight ovens of an instrument that bakes and sniffs samples, the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA.

A sample of clumpy soil dumped onto one TEGA oven on June 6 has yielded only a few particles passing through a mesh screen over the opening to the oven, even after additional vibration of the screen on Monday.

The sprinkling method developed a few months ago by members of Phoenix's arm and microscope teams uses vibration of the tilted scoop by a motorized rasp to gently jostle some material out, instead of turning the scoop over to empty it. The rasp is located on the back of the scoop and will be used later in the mission to scrape up samples of subsurface ice.

The first test of the sprinkling method Monday produced a layer of fine particles extending from a pile of about a tablespoon of soil. The practice placed the material on the top surface of the instrument suite that includes the microscope, the Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA.

"This is good news," said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis, lead scientist for the Robotic Arm. He said that the clumping tendency of Martian soil at the Phoenix site and some earlier landing sites comes from extremely fine particles filling in gaps between coarser, sand-size particles, perhaps together with an ingredient acting to cement particles together. Future soil samples may be prepared prior to delivery by chopping and scraping them with blades on the scoop.

The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.

Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov

Sara Hammond 520-626-1974
University of Arizona, Tucson
shammond@lpl.arizona.edu


Source: NASA - Phoenix - News
Waspie_Dwarf
Sprinkle Test by Phoenix's Robotic Arm (Movie)
06.10.08

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NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander used its Robotic Arm during the mission's 15th Martian day since landing (June 9, 2008) to test a "sprinkle" method for delivering small samples of soil to instruments on the lander deck.

This sequence of four images from the spacecraft's Surface Stereo Imager covers a period of 20 minutes from beginning to end of the activity.

In the single delivery of a soil sample to a Phoenix instrument prior to this test, the arm brought the scooped up soil over the instrument's opened door and turned over the scoop to release the soil. The sprinkle technique, by contrast, holds the scoop at a steady angle and vibrates the scoop by running the motorized rasp located beneath the scoop. This gently jostles some material out of the scoop to the target below.

For this test, the target was near the upper end the cover of the Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer instrument suite, or MECA. The cover is 20 centimeters (7.9 inches) across. The scoop is about 8.5 centimeters (3.3 inches) across.

Based on the test's success in delivering a small quantity and fine-size particles, the Phoenix team plans to use the sprinkle method for delivering samples to MECA and to the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. The next planned delivery is to MECA's Optical Microscope, via the port in the MECA cover visible at the bottom of these images.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University

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Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Waspie_Dwarf
NASA's Phoenix Lander has an Oven Full of Martian Soil
06.11.08

TUCSON, Ariz. - NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander has filled its first oven with Martian soil. "We have an oven full," Phoenix co-investigator Bill Boynton of the University of Arizona, Tucson, said today. "It took 10 seconds to fill the oven. The ground moved."

Boynton leads the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer instrument, or TEGA, for Phoenix. The instrument has eight separate tiny ovens to bake and sniff the soil to assess its volatile ingredients, such as water.

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NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Surface Stereo
Imager took this image on Sol 14 (June 8, 2008),
the 14th Martian day after landing. It shows two
trenches dug by Phoenix's Robotic Arm.
Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of
Arizona/Texas A&M University


The lander's Robotic Arm delivered a partial scoopful of clumpy soil from a trench informally called "Baby Bear" to the number 4 oven on TEGA last Friday, June 6, which was 12 days after landing.

A screen covers each of TEGA's eight ovens. The screen is to prevent larger bits of soil from clogging the narrow port to each oven so that fine particles fill the oven cavity, which is no wider than a pencil lead. Each TEGA chute also has a whirligig mechanism that vibrates the screen to help shake small particles through.

Only a few particles got through when the screen on oven number 4 was vibrated on June 6, 8 and 9.

Boynton said that the oven might have filled because of the cumulative effects of all the vibrating, or because of changes in the soil's cohesiveness as it sat for days on the top of the screen

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This is a computer-aided drawing of the
Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, on
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander.
Image credit: University of Arizona


The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.

Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov

Sara Hammond 520-626-1974
University of Arizona, Tucson
shammond@lpl.arizona.edu


Source: NASA - Phoenix - News
Waspie_Dwarf
Color View 'Dodo' and 'Baby Bear' Trenches
06.11.08

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NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Surface Stereo Imager took this image on Sol 14 (June 8, 2008), the 14th Martian day after landing. It shows two trenches dug by Phoenix's Robotic Arm.

Soil from the right trench, informally called "Baby Bear," was delivered to Phoenix's Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, on Sol 12 (June 6). The following several sols included repeated attempts to shake the screen over TEGA's oven number 4 to get fine soil particles through the screen and into the oven for analysis.

The trench on the left is informally called "Dodo" and was dug as a test.

Each of the trenches is about 9 centimeters (3 inches) wide. This view is presented in approximately true color by combining separate exposures taken through different filters of the Surface Stereo Imager.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University

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Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Incorrigible1
I just can't await to learn what the Phoenix, and its ovens, learn about Martian soil!
Waspie_Dwarf
Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer Illustration
06.11.08

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This is a computer-aided drawing of the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image credit: University of Arizona

› Full Resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
Slave2Fate
QUOTE (Incorrigible1 @ Jun 11 2008, 05:56 PM) *
I just can't await to learn what the Phoenix, and its ovens, learn about Martian soil!


Same here, I find this stuff fascinating, thanx for these posts Waspie thumbsup.gif
Bulldog1974
The two scoop marks show a little white spot in each. Is this ice or salts?
Waspie_Dwarf
QUOTE (Bulldog1974 @ Jun 12 2008, 08:55 PM) *
The two scoop marks show a little white spot in each. Is this ice or salts?

That is the $64,000 question. Now that the samples are being analysed we should find out soon. Scientists are hoping they get to analyse water ice. It will tell them a lot about whether life could have been/can be supported on Mars.
Waspie_Dwarf
NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander Delivers Soil Sample to Microscope
06.12.08

TUCSON, Ariz. -- NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander sprinkled a spoonful of Martian soil Wednesday onto the sample wheel of the spacecraft's robotic microscope station, images received early Thursday confirmed.

"It looks like a light dusting and that's just what we wanted. The Robotic Arm team did a great job," said Michael Hecht of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. He is the lead scientist for the Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer (MECA) instrument on Phoenix.

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The Robotic Arm on Phoenix has just delivered
the first sample of dug-up soil to the spacecraft's
microscope station in this image taken during the
mission's Sol 17 (June 12), or 17th Martian day
after landing.
Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of
Arizona/Texas A&M University


The delivery of scooped-up soil for inspection by the lander's Optical Microscope, a component of MECA, marks the second success in consecutive days for getting samples delivered to laboratory instruments on Phoenix's deck. Some soil from an earlier scoopful reached a tiny oven in another instrument on Tuesday, as confirmed in data received early Wednesday. That instrument is the Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA. Commands being sent to Phoenix today include instructions to close TEGA oven number 4 and begin analyzing the sample inside, a process that will take several days.

The soil now in the microscope station came from the same scoopful that was used for a practice run of the sprinkle delivery technique on Monday. That scoopful has the informal name "Mama Bear." The sample delivered to TEGA oven 4 has the informal name "Baby Bear." Both came from a trench now called "Goldilocks" but earlier referred to as Baby Bear, on the northwest side of the lander.

The Phoenix team assembled at the University of Arizona plans to command the Robotic Arm in the next day or two to dig deeper into the Goldilocks trench and an adjacent trench called "Dodo" to determine the depth to an underlying layer of hard material that may be ice.

The Phoenix mission is led by Peter Smith at the University of Arizona with project management at JPL and development partnership at Lockheed Martin, Denver. International contributions come from the Canadian Space Agency; the University of Neuchatel, Switzerland; the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, Denmark; Max Planck Institute, Germany; and the Finnish Meteorological Institute. For more about Phoenix, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/phoenix and http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu.

Media contacts: Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster@jpl.nasa.gov

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown@nasa.gov

Sara Hammond 520-626-1974
University of Arizona, Tucson
shammond@lpl.arizona.edu

2008-107


Source: NASA - Phoenix - News
Waspie_Dwarf
First Sample Delivery to Mars Microscope
06.12.08

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The Robotic Arm on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander has just delivered the first sample of dug-up soil to the spacecraft's microscope station in this image taken by the Surface Stereo Imager during the mission's Sol 17 (June 12), or 17th Martian day after landing.

The scoop is positioned above the box containing key parts of Phoenix's Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA, instrument suite. It has sprinkled a small amount of soil into a notch in the MECA box where the microscope's sample wheel is exposed. The wheel turns to present sample particles on various substrates to the Optical Microscope for viewing.

The scoop is about 8.5 centimeters (3.3 inches) wide. The top of the MECA box is 20 centimeters (7.9 inches) wide. This image has been lightened to make details more visible.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

Image NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M

› Full Resolution

Source: NASA - Phoenix - Images
stevewinn
what's happened waspie? there's been no news on here for 3 days has the mission gone tits up?
MID
QUOTE (Waspie_Dwarf @ Jun 12 2008, 09:34 PM) *
That is the $64,000 question. Now that the samples are being analysed we should find out soon. Scientists are hoping they get to analyse water ice. It will tell them a lot about whether life could have been/can be supported on Mars.



It sure is the $64,000.00 question, isn't it?!

God, one looks at those pictures, so clear, and wishes he or she were there to grab some of that in one's hand (gloved of course), take it inside, and check it out.

What is the white????

Such views are the most tantalizingly painful for planetary explorers...


dontgetit.gif
Incorrigible1
QUOTE (stevewinn @ Jun 16 2008, 02:36 PM) *
what's happened waspie? there's been no news on here for 3 days has the mission gone tits up?

There seems to be a recent dearth of information.
Incorrigible1
I spoke too soon!

Scientists Believe Phoenix Exposed Ice


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,369461,00.html

LOS ANGELES — Scientists believe NASA's Phoenix Mars lander exposed bits of ice while recently digging a trench in the soil of the Martian arctic, the mission's principal investigator said Thursday.

Crumbs of bright material initially photographed in the trench later vanished, meaning they must have been frozen water that vaporized after being exposed, Peter Smith of the University of Arizona, Tucson, said in a statement.

"These little clumps completely disappearing over the course of a few days, that is perfect evidence that it's ice," Smith said. "There had been some question whether the bright material was salt. Salt can't do that."

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June 19: Before, left, and after images of the 'Dodo-Goldilocks' trench on Mars. Chunks of material in the bottom left seem to have disappeared over the past four days.
DONTEATUS
Its wonderful to see the Phoenix doing such a great job and maney well spent. The possibility of ice is good too.I think it really shows that we need to get offf our collective butts thats all of the able countrys ,and accelarate our efforts to put men& women on mars asap. ITs the best way to find out for sure whats up there.Not cutting the robots,but Man is better at on the spot inspections.I know its expensive thats the point! We spent over a Trillion bucks on killing here on earth for the last century.Lets spend a few on finding life.THe risk far out way the Rewards! Are there no exploriers left? I know all the Astronauts would line up to Go risk is part of there primal makeup. Lets Do it! DONTEATUS Again Way to Go NASA.
The Wise Raven
Hey I'm no scientist or genius im only 12 but would I be correct in thinking:

Mars=Ice=Water=Life?

Mars with ice means it has water which means life could survive on there?
MID
QUOTE (Energia @ Jun 22 2008, 02:56 PM) *
Hey I'm no scientist or genius im only 12 but would I be correct in thinking:

Mars=Ice=Water=Life?

Mars with ice means it has water which means life could survive on there?




Nice deduction there, Energia! You might be right.
Mars is, however, a pretty nasty place. There's no liquid water there, certainly (it's just darn cold, even on the best summer day), and it would be kinda hard to breathe anything in an atmosphere that's about the same as ours is at about 100,000 feet up (say around 20 miles high). However, we've found life on Earth in some pretty nasty places where youy'd never think life could survive.

huh.gif


If you wanna know what Mars is basically like, think about Antarctica with almost no air and you get picture of it...pretty nasty stuff!
But, anything's possible!

Could be dry ice, (C02, Carbon Dioxide).


Could be water ice too. It's perfectly logical to think that water ice might mean life.


It might! That's why we're there...it's what science does. We check it out, we find out what's up, and we experiment to find out what is happenening, what may have happened in the past, or, what's happening right now!


We'll see, but Mars is exciting, because it could be!!!


How cool is it to try and find out?
How cool will it be when we do...one way or the other?


Science is definitely a cool thing to do! For a 12 year old, you seem pretty hip. Study that science. It's the tool that'll let you participate in a great andventure!

wink2.gif

Slave2Fate
Is it possible that the ice is more CO2? Aren't there wind storms on Mars, or is that Hollywood stuff? Ice that close to the surface IMO would likely be more CO2 that was covered with soil by a windstorm. Would H2O ice be deeper than that? LOL too many questions haha grin2.gif


And on another note, what would be a reasonable timeline for a manned Mars mission? Could it happen in our lifetimes, or our childrens?
MID
QUOTE (Slave2Fate @ Jun 22 2008, 04:53 PM) *
Is it possible that the ice is more CO2?


Could be. We know that there's water ice someplace...likely in the area where Phoenix has landed. We also know that most of the ice we see on Mars is C02. We just don't know what we have there yet.

QUOTE
Aren't there wind storms on Mars, or is that Hollywood stuff?



Sure. It's not Hollywood, there's wind up there...high speed wind. Even with thin atmosphere, enough velocity can move things around.



QUOTE
And on another note, what would be a reasonable timeline for a manned Mars mission? Could it happen in our lifetimes, or our childrens?


I guess that depends on how old you are now!

If you or your children are much over 50-55...I wouldn't be inclined to put immense odds on it... sad.gif

2030 to2040-ish is the time frame I'd put it at, and that's probably idealistic--and--that depends on circumstances, which, as political winds blow, can radically change direction in a heartbeat! Someone 50 to 55 would be in their 70s-80s by then, so it's possible, certainly, but as I've said before, I don't think about Mars missions too seriously at this point in time.

We essentially wasted two and a half decades wallowing in manned space efforts. We're back on track now, and preparing to return to the Moon, about a dozen or so years in the future. It's difficult for me to make any projections beyond that point, as I know too well the fickle nature of institutions like Congress, which hold the purse strings of such efforts without holding the requisite intelligence to understand the import of such things.


ROGER
Mark Lemmon of Texas A&M University, College Station, lead scientist for Phoenix's Surface Stereo Imager camera. He said the disappearing chunks could not have been carbon-dioxide ice at the local temperatures because that material would not have been stable for even one day as a solid.

I got this from the NASA Phoenix web sight. I not as skilled as WASPI , so no link.
Hey I,m 54 yrs old. I,m lucky I can turn the computer ON! grin2.gif
Bulldog1974
http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/

that should work....

more than likely, we are seeing water ice and it is subliming into the air. Dry ice would have already sublimed at those temps.
stevewinn
sound great doesn't it it must be water (ice) surely but i guess we just have to wait and see if Phoenix detects water, and if it does will it be the first time water has been detected on Mars?

Roger your doing great, my mum is 49 and cant even turn the computer on, she can turn it off though, just pulls the plug out which isnt good rolleyes.gif

off topic, has anyone been watching the new series of Universe on the History channel, i've been watching it and its not has good as the old series,
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