http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Eleven.html

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another's lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal. -----------In otherwords do not rape!!
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children. --------------------------------meaning do not abuse lil children in any way this also means sexually...!!!

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Now looking at the bibles 10 commandments...

Traditional division and interpretation


1. "I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me..."
This commandment is to believe in the existence of God and His influence on events in the world, and that the goal of the redemption from Egypt was to become His servants (Rashi). It prohibits belief in or worship of any additional deities.
2. "Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
This prohibits the construction or fashioning of "idols" in the likeness of created things (beasts, fish, birds, people) and worshipping them.
3. "Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."
This commandment is to never take the name of God in a vain, pointless or insincere oath.[23]
4. "Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (the version in Deuteronomy reads shamor, "observe")
The seventh day of the week is termed Shabbat and is holy, just as God ceased creative activity during Creation. The aspect of zachor is performed by declaring the greatness of the day (kiddush), by having three festive meals, and by engaging in Torah study and pleasurable activities. The aspect of shamor is performed by abstaining from productive activity (39 melachot) on the Shabbat.
5. "Honor your father and your mother..."
The obligation to honor one's parents is an obligation that one owes to God and fulfills this obligation through one's actions towards one's parents.
6. "Do not murder"
Murdering a human being is a capital sin.[24]
7. "Do not commit adultery."
Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse between a man and a married woman who is not his wife.[23]
8. "Do not steal."
This is not understood as stealing in the conventional sense, since theft of property is forbidden elsewhere and is not a capital offense. In this context it is to be taken as "do not kidnap."[23]
9. "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"
One must not bear false witness in a court of law or other proceeding.
10. "Do not covet your neighbor's house"
One is forbidden to desire and plan how one may obtain that which God has given to another. Maimonides makes a distinction in codifying the laws between the instruction given here in Exodus (You shall not covet) and that given in Deuteronomy (You shall not desire), according to which one does not violate the Exodus commandment unless there is a physical action associated with the desire, even if this is legally purchasing an envied object.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

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In the Satanic list of rules...it mentions it is wrong to rape and wrong to abuse a child, but in the 10 commandments it don't say anything about this, and we today see rape and sexual abuse to a child (who is without sin), as WRONG so VERY sick twisted and WRONG....they don't care if the woman is married or not...when it comes to rape

Can anyone please point out if it reads anywhere else in the bible, where it says...do not rape(married or not) & do not sexually abuse a child in any way/ abuse children period??

Anyone??


Cheers

"But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lies with her shall die. 26"But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case. 27"When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her," (Deut. 22:25-28).

You think this would be in the commandments

What about the girl who isn't engaged? Is it not right to take advantage of the engaged girl because taking advantage of a girl is wrong, full stop, or is it because she's the property of another man? Just curious.

EXACTLY...and I also searched to see what the bible had to say about lil children...sex abuse ect...and got no where fast!!



that goodness the LAW does see it as wrong........cuz if the law only went on what the bible calls sins...then sexual abuse is okie dokie??

Your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps a christian or someone who has read the bible extensivly could shed more light on that. I just googled "rape in the bible" and found that verse.

Me too...I wondered what about the girl is is not engaged...and googled the child abuse ..almost blue in the face and still NOTHING


Here's hoping a chrsitian will be able to shed light on this....*fingers crossed**

Also from Deuteronomy:

23 If there is a girl who is a virgin engaged to a man, and another man finds her in the city and lies with her,
24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city and you shall stone them to death; the girl, because she did not cry out in the city, and the man, because he has violated his neighbor’s wife. Thus you shall purge the evil from among you.

It is the violation of a man's property that constitutes the man's offence in this situation. From that I'd say that's why the girl who is engaged shouldn't be raped... you violate her future husband's property.

Why if the engaged girl is a virgin? Isn't it an offence if she's... erm... experienced?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered,
29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

50 shekels of silver... cheap at half the price.

This is quite disturbing. I had never realized there was no mention of child abuse (especially sexual) in the bible. Just another profound reason I have no faith in religion in general, and Christianity specifically.

hey Becky... let me see if i can shed some light on the situation...

the term 10 commandments is very misleading... because those are just the first 10 of about 300...

rape is indeed covered... it doesn't differentiate between children and adults because the act is the same... it refers to raping women in general...

only in modern times have we made the words molestation and rape into different terms in order to specify age...

as far as what was asked about being engaged or not... rape was against God's law... engaged or not... as someone already pointed out... the guy was put to death if he raped a woman that was engaged...

but if a guy raped a girl that wasn't engaged... one of three things would happen in the culture

1. the guy would be put to death
2. the guy would pay restitution... sort of like modern day civil suits.... where victims can sue their wrong doers...
3. the guy would have to take her as his wife... if the father agreed...

there is a story of this... where Jacob's daughter Dinah gets raped by a king... her brothers pretend everything is cool... they tell the king that he can have their sister if they circumcize every man in the city... once everyone is circumsized... they waited until the soreness set in... all the men were drunk if i recall... then they go and they kill everyone in the city... so rape was indeed looked down on in their culture... you can read that story in Genesis 34...

i can't say i blame them... if i had a sister, who knows how i would react if that happened...

oh and i forgot to write this originally so i edited this post:

any male that has sexual contact with another male falls under the homosexuality law... again... there is no specific ages... it speaks of all males and females in general... all laws the same for all ages...

hope that clears something up...

Thanks thaphantum...for trying to shed light...but can you show me a source on this?? thanks

its just it says from the surces I have checked out, only if the girl is engaged meaning married...it dont say anything about women or even children in these sources

So I am now hoping you can help out a lil bit further...but thank you again, for your help so far

Here you go...

the rape of Dinah
Genesis 34

rape of an engaged woman
Deuteronomy 22:23-27

rape of a non engaged woman
Deuteronomy 22:28-29

law on castration... lol
Deuteronomy 23:1

law on male on male sexual activity
Leviticus 18:220
Leviticus 20:13

law about sex with animals
Deuteronomy 27:21
Exodus 22:19

if you need anything else Becky... feel free to ask...

I've long thought that the Church of Satan has among the best Rules or Commanments of any Church I hav eever known.

Wether this is because it is based on a more mordern view of the world or not I have to say that The Church of Satan (That to me is little more then Ritualised Aethiesm, or perhaps Non-Theism) is an interesting premise.

I would love to attend a church were there one in my immediate area. I believe that they consider the concept of Solipsism to be a sin which is another thing I quite like, they focus squarely on the individual being responsible for his or her actions which I think is an incredible thing.

Anyhow I don't want to derail this topic but I would like to restate the the most likely reason that the Church of Satan seems to have more appropriate rules then other religions is that the rules were defined far more recentally.


AtlantisRises

The bible was written in different times, back then wasn't rape the woman's fault?

someone didn't bother to read the previous posts...

I did.

it's already been posted that it's NOT the womans fault... and that the man was to be put to death... in some cases...

Back in those days, and still in the present, in the middle eastern countries, in some places it is considered the woman's fault. They even continue to practice "honor killings".

But the offence doesn't seem to be the rape of the woman as such... not a crime against the woman, but rather the violation of another man's property... more like theft really. In the case of the girl who wasn't engaged he could pay her father 50 shekels... not really like modern day civil courts, in so much as if I was raped my father wouldn't be the one who got the money would he, because I'm not owned like a cow or bit of land.

the ten commandments were set up for the jews that moses led out of egypt. they didnt have as much perverse things going on. they had their share but not like today. maybe because there were not as many people. sin has progressed in the amount and ways to sin. the satanic on the other hand is a newer book, able to address the bad stuff we are commiting now. sad stuff. some countries in the middle east dont care whos fault rape is. the female has dishonored the family and she is put to death by male members of her family. and we thought we had it bad.

Not just male members, one case has the girl being raped by both of her brothers, she becomes pregnant and has the child (which is put up for adoption) the mother slits her daughters wrists for being raped by her own brothers. The mother and brothers only got like a year or two in jail. The bible was written in a time when women weren't very respected, so... Ya know

you must have ignored the story of Dinah... that guy was willing to pay a lot more than 50 shekels... and they killed him... lol...

that is more of a muslim practice from what i know about those countries...

as you can clearly read in the Bible... the Jews have NEVER held the belief that it was the womans fault...

can we get a source? are we talking about Jews or Muslims?

here is Jewish law on brother and sister sex in general... but keep in mind.. the same rules of rape still apply...

Leviticus 20:17

You are still missing the point about the time and enviroment. And I honestly didn't see anything saying it wasn't the woman's fault in your posts, just that the men had to pay in some way for it.

if you bothered to read the references that are posted... it's not necessary for me to say it...

it clearly says that it's not her fault and nothing will be done to her... so you are not getting the point... read before trying to argue a point... because all the references clearly address the point you are still trying to argue...

It doesn't say in your posts that it wasn't the woman's fault.

i said it last time... i'll say it again... read the references and you can see exactly what it says for yourself... if you're going to be lazy... don't blame me because you are ignorant as to what it CLEARLY says if you bothered to read it...

People in biblical times lived in a different type of society to what we do. People back then were married and having children as young as 13 and 14 years old. Most of these were also arranged marriages. Assume the woman didn't want children, too bad for her - children were needed for the good of the tribe. That might today be classed as child abuse. Back in those days it was a necessity. With people married by 12 and having children by 13, child abuse seems a rather incorrect term to be used to refer to this society.

Speaking generally though, something that needs to be pointed out - assuming for a moment that the Bible does not specifically condemn child abuse or rape; neither then does the Bible condone such action.

As for the Satanic Commandments - they are written in a modern context for a modern audience. Some of the rules I'd agree with, some of them I strongly disagree with (4, 7, 11, mostly). But they are written to a more modern audience in a cultural setting familiar to us. It's no wonder there would be rules that are directly affected by our current mode of moral understanding.

Regards,

Good point PA...that makes sense

Rape was not always regarded as the womans fault, however, a woman was inferior to a man.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Further displays of warped perception and the inferority of the female:

Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

Disregarding the genetic consequences of such an outrageous display of inbreeding as is present on the Ark, the use of the word "his female" display the common perception at the time of writing, that a female was the property of her male. "God" is also strangly approving of men whom chose to have more than one wife:

Gen 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

2 Peter 2:7 calls Lot "just", Lot who in Genesis 19:8 said:

Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Obvious is that the Bible depics the world as it was at the time, a world where woman was subjugated and a loyal subordinate of the males; a world where women often were consider property of their husbands and fathers. Strange enough, most of the children detailed as being born are male.

Child abuse? >.>

Deuteronomy 21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

21:23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

I like how it uses the term "lair".

Although in my opinion both religions are bogus, you also have to remember that the Ten Commandments were written thousands of years ago, therefore would apply more for that time period. While founded on April 30, 1966, the Church of Satans rules were written in a time period where rape and child abuse was shunned on more than thousands of years ago. If I had to pick on of the rules to follow, I would probably pick the Church of Satans because it is more relevant to todays.

Lol, real nice. I didn't really say it was or wasn't in the bible. But that is what it was like in the time period in those areas, woman had little to no respect and it was easier to blame things on them, considering they were nothing but mere possesions. I also don't see it saying that "IT WAS NOT THE WOMAN 'S FAULT" or even implying that it wasn't. Wut, lost now.

I have explained these points to the best of my knowlege in previous posts but I shall do it again for you.

In Gen, the woman (Eve) is considered lower than man and punished as so because she was the first to sin and because she tempted man with sin.

In regards to the Ark, first the examples have to do with animals who aside from maybe the Black Widow are in nature under the male who is the dominant creature. And for the other refrence if you were thinking human read my previous answer to Gen.

In regards to Lot, Those were not ordinary men but Angels in his home. He prefered to give his daughters to the mob before the Heavenly messengers that had come to save him and his family from the destruction of the city. If you read further on you will find out that the mob did not want the daughters or Lot's wife but the angels and soon they meaning Lot's family and the angels escaped and the wraith of God fell on the city. Lot is a refered to as a good man because he held the treasures of Heaven above the treasures of the world.

In regards to the punishment of the rebelious son it is no different that the law of today, actually the son got a better deal back then. Accually first the rebelious meaning criminal son would be punished and asked to change by his parents. If he did not comply then he would be sent to the elders or officals of the town. If still then he did not rebuke his criminal or rebelious acts then he would be stoned. Also I'll give a modern example of your last sentences. "if a man has done a crime worthy of death he shall be executed by leathal injection. His name shall then be put on the news to tell of his execution and his crimes." Basicly this is the same as hanging a man for sinning or acting criminal in the old days. He would be hung from the tree and left to show he was a sinner.

Also you should not cut and nit what ever you take from the Bible especially if you are trying to argue fault. If you read the whole chapter or book you will get the full meaning since much of the Bible is written in mediphore and examples aside from story.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

The best way to get a person to like you or follow you is to kiss his backside and appeal to his or her ideas. For example, If a canidate for the president of a country said he was going do things in his presidency that appealed to you ideals wouldnt you be more likely to vote for him even if he was full of it?

in my short time here... i've come to realized that when people want to make a point... they start with the selective reading of what they want to believe proves their point...

Men to respect their wives...
Ephesians 5:25
Ephesians 5:28
Colossians 3:19

QUOTE

Disregarding the genetic consequences of such an outrageous display of inbreeding as is present on the Ark, the use of the word "his female" display the common perception at the time of writing, that a female was the property of her male. "God" is also strangly approving of men whom chose to have more than one wife:

Gen 4:19 [i]And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

again... lets see what God specifically says about the subject in the Bible...

Deuteronomy 17:17

QUOTE

lol... you obviously haven't read the story and are just quoting what you either got from site... or just heard so you thought it was something you should post...

3 angels came to Abraham (one was actually Jesus... but that's another debate)... and told him they were going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah.. Abraham asked if they would spare the city... he pretty much failed at saving the city... so the angels went to get Lot out... well... the men there wanted to rape the 2 angels... and lot was trying to save them all... because angels really will kill whole cities of people with no hesitation... so Lot offered his daughters... they refused because they wanted to rape the men... the angels blinded all the men in the street... so lot was indeed just because he was trying to save the city... even to the point where he was willing to offer them his daughters... point is... he failed and the angels destroyed the city...



that's not child abuse... they just put him to death... plain and simple... in our day and age... we have just decided to spank our kids... which still isn't child abuse...

beating kids for no reason whatsoever is indeed abuse which is vastly different from discipline... but the verse you quoted has to do with a child that refuses to obey no matter what the parents do...

QUOTE

not sure why you posted that in conjunction with child abuse... but since it's there... it explains why they had to have Jesus off the cross before passover... even though at the time this was written... crucifixion wasn't invented... but the cross was still considered a tree...

I would also like to add (because I didn't have enough time to in my previous post) the rules of each religion makes more sense for the kinds of people that follow them. Christianity gets most of their people through inheriting traditions, therefore telling them not to question their religion would be the best way to keep them in. Whilst the Church of Satan gets most of it's people from confused and angry teenagers (no offence), therefore quite a few of them go against pet peeves, therefore easier to relate to.

Please don't flame me, this is only a theory I have made up.

Its a pretty good theory and quite true. Point is the whole rebelious teen and ect has to do with not wanting to follow inherited lifestyles. Hence the new wave of alternative that has influenced almost everything this day and age. The Church of Satan apeases to the rebel so the rebels will agree with it's rules. Point is the Church of Satan has made its rules around the rebel to apease the rebel and the alternative seeking individual. The main rule of that Church is if you dont like the rules, make your own.

Deuteronomy 22:26

"But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death..."

basically... it's not her fault so leave her alone...

They also killed every other man, took the women and children of the land and stole their wealth... is that what God recommends when a woman is violated? Steal the women and children of the rapist's land? Kill all its men?

Anyway, how does that story demonstrate that it was the rape of a woman which was the crime, not the rape of property? Is there any mention of what Dinah wanted?

I found this and thought it was interesting:

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary on the Whole Bible
Book: Genesis
Chapter: 34

Overview:
Dinah defiled By Shechem. (1-19)

1-19 Young persons, especially females, are never So safe and
Well off as under the care of pious parents. Their own
ignorance, and the flattery and artifices of designing, wicked
people, who are ever laying snares for them, expose them to
great danger. They are their own enemies if they desire to go
abroad, especially alone, among strangers to true religion.
Those parents are very wrong who do not hinder their children
from needlessly exposing themselves to danger. Indulged
children, like Dinah, often become a grief and shame to their
families. Her pretence was, to see the daughters of the land, to
see how they dressed, and how they danced, and what was
fashionable among them; she went to see, yet that was not all,
she went to be seen too. She went to get acquaintance with the
Canaanites, and to learn their ways. See what came of Dinah's
gadding. The beginning of Sin is as the letting forth of water.
How great a matter does a little Fire kindle! We should
carefully avoid all occasions of Sin and approaches to it.

Pa I agree you have thought a lil about the questions posted about 2 different sins...but to focus on CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE for a sec, you go on about kids married at 12 and having kids at 13..how back then, they didn't see it as wrong...I find it sick but see this is what i am going to really take a stab at..................

What about sexually abusing lil kids ...children from no age..1--2yr.3yr old 4 yr --5yrs..6..yrs ect...are you trying to say, that men did not interfer with lil babies back in those days??? that it might have only began in the modern world?? like some kind of sick new trend??

& and what do you mean by - a 12 yr old married off (still a child) by - MIGHT be classed as child abuse..umm PA there is NO MIGHT about it...in a lot of places..even where you live, it is child abuse and WRONG

Anyhoo I want to know, what you think of sexually abusing a baby from it is a few months old right onwards...cuz it does and has happened...cuz for some reason, I doubt very much, that sick crime, didnt just happen in the 19th century lol...If you know what I mean

Your thoughts??

Maybe those people have the right idea..they get straight to the point...no beating around the bush...they put in in plain straight forward English ie - Do not hurt little children...couldnt agree more


I would like to see where the bible gets straight to the point on hurting lil children

I found this, in reference to children:

Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me,
it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and
that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Not sure about little ones who don't believe in Jesus though.

I was almost about to go YAY at least the bible reaches out YOO YO...then read there is a catch to it..damnnnnnnn those that believe in me.........WHAT??? ehh step up jesus a sec....so what about those that don't even know you are YOU???...wait Jesus didnt write it...sigh


*calm blue ocean.....calm blue ocean....calm blue ocean*


Bummer!!

Dinah didn't want the guy... thus the word rape... you CAN'T rape someone who is willing to have sex with you...

Dinah was free... she had a father and brothers... but never once was she mentioned as anyone's property...

as far as if that's what God wanted... well... they didn't really care about that... and Jacob said what they did was wrong...

but actually what they did makes sense...

if you were a devout follower of your king and someone killed him... you would probably retaliate with the rest of your army... so they just took everyone out... to avoid all out war...

you can't just go kill a king and think everything will be fine the next day...

i see you ignored what i said earlier...

in God's eyes... we are all people... same laws for kids and adults...

so there is no need to specify ages...

as far as your question about child molestation happening back then... it's just like now... 1-2 month olds can't talk... so the only way to find out something like that is to catch them...

as far as 12 being a child... it's all opinion... because if the majority of the people now days decided 12 was old enough... then nobody would consider 12 a child... so i guess the age of a child is based on majority... we live in a society that feels the need to define and classify every little thing...

that's why you keep asking bout children... maybe back then, they didn't have a specific age that was considered a child... most men were working by 12 or 13 back then... herding sheep... planting... farming... etc...

but my point is... the law included all children and adults...

what little kid have you met that doesn't have any idea who Jesus is? lol... i haven't met one... ever...

Then you are ignorant to parts of the world that are not taught who jesus is..............arent you??

You must think that only in America ...uk...Ireland ect..thats sums it up...nope sireeeeeee it dont

think will you LMAO

there are places in the world who are NOT taught about jesus and have no idea who this man is............now gimme some slack here..you should KNOW this

actually there are very few places where kids don't know about Jesus... and i'm going to find a reference, but off the top of my head... about 98% of the world as heard the Gospel... thanks to missionaries, tv, and radio...

and maybe when we are young we can see, hear, and know things that we forget as we get older... lol...

i think you took part in that convo... so who knows... maybe every little kid knows who He is until they reach a certain age...

98% you say....may I have an actual source on this then

To hear of Jesus is one thing..but to be taught by your own culture to follow a different God, is another

After all imagine if you where born from a tribe of people that led YOU, to follow some other God..and you know next to nothing of a bible..a chrsitian bible...then you are going to follow that right??

Dont say you wouldnt..cuz that would not make sense, you after all followed what you where taught......got ya thinking eh??

my point to all of this is this...............no man should hurt/sexually assult a kid..regardless if that kid knows or follows Jesus..screw that...its still a child..and its STILL so wrong...if you believe God made us all..then you would know this (not directed at you phantum..directed at just about anyone)