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knott
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 1 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]1609149[/snapback]
"Thank God for 9/11".

Members openly admit that the thought of an outsider being hit by a car or dying of cancer makes them laugh.

Their hatred is targeted at a massive range of people including gays, Jews, soldiers, the Irish, anyone who has sex outside marriage, and SWEDES.


Congratulating the evil deeds of others, laughing at people dying, and hatred towards others is evil but, actually carrying out the evil deeds, in my opinion, is a greater evil. Even greater is to convince others to carry out those deeds even if it means killing oneself in the process - such as with suicide bombers in public places.
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(knott @ Apr 2 2007, 09:18 PM) [snapback]1610241[/snapback]
Congratulating the evil deeds of others, people dying, and hatred towards others is evil but, actually carrying out the evil deeds, in my opinion, is a greater evil. Even greater is to convince others to carry out those deeds even if it means killing oneself in the process - such as with suicide bombers in public places.

I KNOW..its so nasty to do that.............the 9/11 was so tragic...it was like something you would see in a hollywood movie...really scary

I saw the second plane fly into the second building (tower) live on tv as it happened..and I froze up..like blink.gif

In all my years living in a country of violence with the IRA ect..never had I seen such an evil act like the events that took place on 9/11

Every last one of those idiots that stand there praising the attacks on the 9/11 should ALL be locked up...

knott
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 2 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]1610255[/snapback]
I KNOW..its so nasty to do that.............the 9/11 was so tragic...it was like something you would see in a hollywood movie...really scary

I saw the second plane fly into the second building (tower) live on tv as it happened..and I froze up..like blink.gif

In all my years living in a country of violence with the IRA ect..never had I seen such an evil act like the events that took place on 9/11

Every last one of those idiots that stand there praising the attacks on the 9/11 should ALL be locked up...


Let's not forget where the greatest evil is - the ones who convinced others the carry out the plans of 911.

I saw it all live (on TV) as well.
Shadow_Hill
QUOTE(knott @ Apr 2 2007, 09:33 PM) [snapback]1610265[/snapback]
Let's not forget where the greatest evil is - the ones who convinced others the carry out the plans of 911.

I saw it all live (on TV) as well.


I watched the news reports after the event. I hadn't heard anything about it... had had the TV off all day and hadn't spoken to a soul. I turned on the TV and saw those images... they were there the moment I switched the set on. The people in those buildings. I broke down. The sheer horror of it.

Just thinking about it... sad.gif
GoddessWhispers
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 3 2007, 01:35 AM) [snapback]1610194[/snapback]
If you know of Ian Paisley lol then pic him metting up with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell...........Ian would tell Pat and Jerry that they have it ALL wrong...I can almost hear the idiots loud trap going off - NEVER.......NEVER......NEVER have you men got it right, my chuch is the ONLY church true to Jesus....you men are too soft with the people..you need to be more harsh....and I dont like you Mr Falwell....Why? ..WELL DONT TAKE ANY OFFENCE MR FALWELL, IT'S NOT YOU, ITS THAT FECKING NAME YOU HAVE....JERRY...JUST LIKE THAT BS'TD JERRY ADDAMS OH HOW I HATE THAT NAME AND EVERYONE ELSE CALLED JERRY.........ITS A DOWN RIGHT DISGRACE THAT THEY STILL SHOW TOM & JERRY CARTOONS, IF I HAD MY WAY..THERE WOULD NEVER........NEVER......NEVER BE A JERRY MENTIONED EVER AGAIN..........ONCE AGAIN MR FALWELL NO OFFENCE TO YOU...BUT YOUR MOM MUST HAVE HATED YOU BY CALLING YOU....JERRY!!

If you know and have heard this man Ian Paisley in action..his famous NEVERS are all ways there... w00t.gif

Yet on the front page of the Belfast telegraph shows BOTH Jerry Addams and Ian Paisley sitting side by side all smiles over the devolution setting up the N.Ireland assembley ..who'd thunk it LMAO laugh.gif

Im laughing because Ian was famous for saying NEVER NEVER Will I be seated in goverment with that bstd JERRY ADDAMS...and goes to show you...NEVER SAY NEVER YONK YONK!!



NEVER!! By Ian P. w00t.gif I hear they call him "The Irish Rebel". Most Youtubers call him something else. See? laugh.gif One mans zealot is another mans freedom fighter.

Ewww scary. blink.gif
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(GoddessWhispers @ Apr 2 2007, 09:43 PM) [snapback]1610285[/snapback]
NEVER!! By Ian P. w00t.gif I hear they call him "The Irish Rebel". Most Youtubers call him something else. See? laugh.gif One mans zealot is another mans freedom fighter.

Ewww scary. blink.gif

Now you can see why I take the piss out of him for banging out NEVER NEVER NEVER..............I think maybe his childhood dreams where shattered when he learnt that NEVER NEVER land was just a childrens book w00t.gif and from watching the video on him...now you can see WHY I class him as a loud mouth

Can just pic the look on his face if someone called him the Irish rebel LMAO.---> blink.gif NEVER NEVER call me Ian Paisley - IRISH..I AM NOT IRISH..I may have always lived here in N>Ireland..but I AM NOT IRISH..I am proud to be BRITTISH!! lets set the record STRAIGHT...British for that I am ...that b****** JERRY ADDAMS wants us to believe we that are born here in N.Ireland are IRISH..WELL I SAY NEVER NEVER NEVERdisgust.gif

The idiot rolleyes.gif
GoddessWhispers
Yes, an idiot.(why is it idiots like that are always richer than we are? dontgetit.gif laugh.gif) But the thing is he believes he's absolutely right. Imagine living in a world of his making, if that kind of thinking, it's agenda for all people, were to manifest.

Yeah, don't I see you buying a one way ticket to the States with a quickness. tongue.gif
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(GoddessWhispers @ Apr 3 2007, 04:36 AM) [snapback]1610854[/snapback]
Yes, an idiot.(why is it idiots like that are always richer than we are? dontgetit.gif laugh.gif) But the thing is he believes he's absolutely right. Imagine living in a world of his making, if that kind of thinking, it's agenda for all people, were to manifest.

Yeah, don't I see you buying a one way ticket to the States with a quickness. tongue.gif

He started up a new faith calling it - Free Presbyterians.........BECAUSE he didn't agree with the Presbyterian church..so off he goes to get a NEW faith

but hey protestants do that LOL..they disagree with one church..go off make another ..living up to the name - protestant lol

I can almost pic someone building another NEW faith or two LOL calling one - Free Baptists LOL ..or - born over again christians..slogan - we are the true christians not like the other born agains..we speak the truth..lol
that wouldnt surprize me w00t.gif
Shadow_Hill
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 3 2007, 06:59 PM) [snapback]1611619[/snapback]
born over again christians


laugh.gif The Church of the Thrice Saved... 'cos twice wasn't nearly enough. rolleyes.gif

I suppose I cannot say much... my beliefs are metamorpho-whatsit-ing every five minutes at the moment. If I founded a church every time I rethought my beliefs I'd have a string of twenty since half past five this afternoon.
GoddessWhispers
If you're born again do you get another belly button!?

Wouldn't that be a blip on the screen? Come up from th baptismal dunk and there comes with ya this new tickle under the shirt. Just above the first innie made at your birth! w00t.gif Woo hooo! More piercing space. tongue.gif

I think the Protestant example, as well as the spoof faiths like flying pasta monsters and pink horned horses, are a reflection of how people will always move to a faith or a belief that resonates to them personally. It's odd really. People of faith hold faith in something that gives reason for their being alive and acting human. And yet all the while as they pray and believe in that, it's them doing the work, living here.
Shadow_Hill
QUOTE(GoddessWhispers @ Apr 3 2007, 07:12 PM) [snapback]1611636[/snapback]
It's odd really. People of faith hold faith in something that gives reason for their being alive and acting human. And yet all the while as they pray and believe in that, it's them doing the work, living here.


I don't actually see that there has to be a connection between believing there is a creator and having faith in him, and in his presence in your life in the here and now. My creator's off doing something interesting, like playing the piano or reading books (don't tell me gods don't have books! And don't even imply there won't be books in my afterlife blink.gif ... if there aren't, I ain't going).

So much worry about this god and that god, and my god is the only god... blah blah blah... and all the time the clock is ticking and life is passing us by. blink.gif

GoddessWhispers
laugh.gif No books, I ain't goin! I love it.

Yes, it's amazing how much time is spent defining what one holds personally true. What are we speaking about really!? Are we defining what faith is, or defending what it is to us!? And given all that's said, what difference shall it make. I consider myself lucky in that I make money spending time on-line. So it's a win win for me. I enjoy reading about what other people think and how they see their way to living their lives. And while I know it's the Internet and that anonymity makes questionable the credibility for any of what I read and it's being real life and true, it's still fascinating to me. We live our lives believing in so much stuff, and yet the basics. The bones of surviving here, besides that, is all on us.

Pray you make rent by the 1st. But don't make the money to pay the rent on the first and things happen.
Light candles and hope that husband changes his ways, when in truth he's living his truth and if he could possibly know what the man you're praying he turns into looks like, do you think he'd be the one you pray goes away today!?

It's all us. I see religious faith as like a fine gossamer veil that cocoons itself inside a person. It's there and they carry it everywhere they go, while it's their body that is invested in all the choices they make for their life. Living is selfish. Because the first one to know what it feels like to make your choices, is you. In that respect, I think those of faith and those that hold no religious faith, meet life the same way.
KBA
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 2 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]1610024[/snapback]
actually... it's a FACT that Jesus is more documented than george washington was... and that's outside of the Bible... further more... the Bible wasn't written to be a book... it was a collection of seperate texts over a period of time by people who DOCUMENTED things that happened... had these not been put together as a big collection of writings that we call the Bible... every Book of the NT would be considered an independent documentation... thus we would have 27 just to start off with...

here is a link to just a few others written before 100 A.D. http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAR217.htm
so if someone comes out tomorrow and says "i'm atheist and kills 6,000,000 people like Hitler, that would make all atheists evil correct?"
so a reasonable person could conclude that atheism is indeed evil...

and just because something wasn't done in the name of atheism doesn't mean it can't be blamed... plenty of atheists have done evil things... because the basic philosophy behind MOST atheism is that God does not exist... therefore no accountability for one's actions... there for do as you please because it doesn't matter...

so based on your statements above... i can reaasonably conclude that all atheists... are evil because of a ceratain few...

furtermore... as has been pointed out before by other people... evil people will do evil... no matter what holy book they have and no matter what deity they believe in... people usually just add the Bible into the religion to DISGUISE it as Christianity... and decieve people into joining... then they start to add their own teachings into the mix... which is always a sign that those people are not REAL Christians... any real Christian knows that the Bible is the only religious book that dictates their faith... and so do these false teachers... so they pray on that mentality and just interpret scripture to suit their own agenda...

people have used the scripture to prove that they were Jesus... that doesn't make them Christian... the Mormons and Muslims both use the same verse to say that their holy book is just an addition to the Bible... again, that doesn't make them Christian because they quote a few scriptures... the most devout, committed atheist knows the Bible inside out... so if they choose to do evil... is it Christianity's fault or is it their atheistic belief that is responsible?
stalin was evil... and an atheists... so again... based on previous statements that YOU made... a reasonable person can conclude that atheism leads to one being evil...

i've already addressed most of this... but if you for one second believe the KKK is a Bible based organization... you are ignorant of the facts... first of all... the Bible teaches LOVE for the Hebrew people specifically and all people in General... but the KKK is the exact opposite... they hate almost everyone... even some whites... so please point out in the Bible where it says to hate Jews???
i guess i'll address the salem with trials real quick....

20 people died at the salem witch trials... but it's always pointed out as a bad point in history (which it was), but it wasn't as big of a slaughter as people try to make it out to be...
people act like it was a big sweeping movement... but it wasn't...
in this thread you are pointing out a YOU and US (organized religion) so that would make YOU just as guilty of a black and white view as it makes US... correct?
not true... that is an assumption... i can walk into any church right now... and i guarantee you that 99% of those people have never killed anyone and never condoned killing anyone... groups of like minded people have a tendency to flock together... and usually when a teaching doesn't fit a persons belief... they change churches...

and if you bothered to actually read the Bible... you would know that arrogance is strongly discouraged...

thus you get verses like... "the meek shall inherit the earth" "pride comes before the fall" "he who makes himself high shall be brought low" etc...

so again... you are referring to groups of people who obviously don't follow the Bible as a whole... but pick and choose bits of information and toss out the rest...
when i worked security at the college... my supervisor Andre was from Jersey... and he was telling me about "5 Percenters"... they only believe 5% of the Bible... i'm not sure what 5% they believe, but i wouldn't refer to them as Christians... so there is indeed a good chance they COULD go out and do evil, but chances are they won't...
so you're saying that if you do know... like if you found a diary or plans to shoot up a school in your kids room... you would turn your kid in? or kill your kid? because that would indeed make you evil if you didn't right?

i'm basing this on your previous statements... i'm just wondering what you would do if you knew your kid was going to commit an evil act...


I'm not even going to bother responding to the bulk of this, because you completely ignored what I said. Once again, these Christians are doing evil things that the Bible says to do and encourages.
We can reasonably assume that they are getting their inspiration to do them from the Bible. The Bible says it is law to kill people who are immoral or sinful (Homosexual people, people who work on the sabbath, adulterers, rebellious children). I don't care if it's in the old testament, the Bible still says to do it (and it is acknowledged as law in the new testament too). You can say that everyone is evil and they're just "using Christianity to justify it", but it has biblical basis, and there's no doubt that at least some of those killings would be prevented without the existence of the Bible. And since when does no god mean no accountability? You act like atheists should be some savage creatures running around killing people because there's no god. Atheists make up a much lower percent (yes, even proportionately) of prison population than Christians.

QUOTE
In "The New Criminology", Max D. Schlapp and Edward E. Smith say that two
generations of statisticians found that the ratio of convicts without
religious training is about 1/10 of 1%. W. T. Root, professor of
psychology at the Univ. of Pittsburgh, examined 1,916 prisoners and said
"Indifference to religion, due to thought, strengthens character," adding
that Unitarians, Agnostics, Atheists and Free-Thinkers are absent from
penitentiariers or nearly so.
thaphantum
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 3 2007, 12:22 PM) [snapback]1611735[/snapback]
I'm not even going to bother responding to the bulk of this, because you completely ignored what I said. Once again, these Christians are doing evil things that the Bible says to do and encourages.


the Bible never encourage laughing at people with cancer... people who die in war... as a matter of fact... if you go back a few pages... i gave references to where the Bible SPECIFICALLY says not to laugh at people who you consider your enemies... so how do you argue that?

QUOTE
We can reasonably assume that they are getting their inspiration to do them from the Bible. The Bible says it is law to kill people who are immoral or sinful (Homosexual people, people who work on the sabbath, adulterers, rebellious children). I don't care if it's in the old testament, the Bible still says to do it (and it is acknowledged as law in the new testament too).


no... we can reasonably assume that they are inspired... hold a Bible doesn't mean you read it...

modern law also considers it illegal to do a lot of the things in the Bible... and i notice that you left our murderers and rapists in your list of people to kill...

oh but wait... (pulls the ace from up the sleave)... modern law... in some states... it is legal to kill someone for just coming in your house uninvited... so i guess that makes us evil... or maybe they were influenced by out law... the Bible never condoned beating your wife... but it is indeed an old law in California that you can beat your wife with a leather strap as long as it doesn't exceed 6 in....

and while we're on it... some people here said they agree with the laws in the Satanic Bible... but don't rules #2 and #11 say you can kill people for no reason whatsoever? actually i think it was if they annoy you...

QUOTE
You can say that everyone is evil and they're just "using Christianity to justify it", but it has biblical basis, and there's no doubt that at least some of those killings would be prevented without the existence of the Bible.


i don't recall reading that they killed anyone... maybe i missed it...
and in case you don't live in our reality... there are people who laugh at that kind of stuff all the time... and they are necessarily Christian... some are atheist and some are anarchist and some or of other beliefs... difference is... they don't have the balls to be in the open...

i'm not saying it's right... i'm just saying that they just happened to be the group what was public in doing it... so where do those other groups get that influence from?

QUOTE
And since when does no god mean no accountability?


in the afterlife...

QUOTE
You act like atheists should be some savage creatures running around killing people because there's no god. Atheists make up a much lower percent (yes, even proportionately) of prison population than Christians.



really? that's interesting because if you are atheist when you go to prison... and you convert to Christian in prison... and they take a poll... guess what... you are considered as part of the Christian population in prison... they don't do studies on what religion people are before they go... because it's biased toward making a point...

i'm not saying Christians don't go to prison... i'm just saying the statistics are slanted with an agenda...
Shankpin
QUOTE( @ Apr 3 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]1611735[/snapback]
I'm not even going to bother responding to the bulk of this, because you completely ignored what I said. Once again, these Christians are doing evil things that the Bible says to do and encourages.


To get to your endless point---> Basically, you believe if the bible NEVER existed, Murder would NOT exist neither???

QUOTE( @ Apr 3 2007, 02:22 PM) [snapback]1611735[/snapback]
We can reasonably assume that they are getting their inspiration to do them from the Bible. The Bible says it is law to kill people who are immoral or sinful (Homosexual people, people who work on the sabbath, adulterers, rebellious children). I don't care if it's in the old testament, the Bible still says to do it (and it is acknowledged as law in the new testament too). You can say that everyone is evil and they're just "using Christianity to justify it", but it has biblical basis, and there's no doubt that at least some of those killings would be prevented without the existence of the Bible. And since when does no god mean no accountability? You act like atheists should be some savage creatures running around killing people because there's no god. Atheists make up a much lower percent (yes, even proportionately) of prison population than Christians.


And if the law of the land said for you to kill a hyenna and sacrifce it on monday, athiest or not, I'd do it so I wouldn't get my head chopped off-- if that be the law of the land, of course. Biblical or non.
You dance around & ignore the being of Christianity, which is Jesus Christ. Conveniently you attempt to prove your point by using the OT and ancient laws/ customs- but choose to ignore what Christianity is truthfully all about-- (Christ).
thaphantum
QUOTE(Sunny98 @ Apr 3 2007, 04:08 PM) [snapback]1612008[/snapback]
To get to your endless point---> Basically, you believe if the bible NEVER existed, Murder would NOT exist neither???
And if the law of the land said for you to kill a hyenna and sacrifce it on monday, athiest or not, I'd do it so I wouldn't get my head chopped off-- if that be the law of the land, of course. Biblical or non.
You dance around & ignore the being of Christianity, which is Jesus Christ. Conveniently you attempt to prove your point by using the OT and ancient laws/ customs- but choose to ignore what Christianity is truthfully all about-- (Christ).


thumbsup.gif
hairston630
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 4 2007, 12:16 AM) [snapback]1612102[/snapback]
thumbsup.gif


thumbsup.gif x2
KBA
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 3 2007, 10:04 PM) [snapback]1611921[/snapback]
the Bible never encourage laughing at people with cancer... people who die in war... as a matter of fact... if you go back a few pages... i gave references to where the Bible SPECIFICALLY says not to laugh at people who you consider your enemies... so how do you argue that?


Laughing at your enemies and killing them are two different things. The Bible says God will throw your enemies to hell.

QUOTE
no... we can reasonably assume that they are inspired... hold a Bible doesn't mean you read it...


And you don't think they've read the Bible? That's a baseless assumption. Take for example, the KKK. Here's the repulsive little modern home online for the KKK: http://www.kkk.bz/ The whole site is based on Christianity. That's their prime driving force.

QUOTE
modern law also considers it illegal to do a lot of the things in the Bible... and i notice that you left our murderers and rapists in your list of people to kill...


There's a reason many things in the Bible are illegal today. And I didn't mention it saying to kill murderers and rapists because I don't place petty offenders (or people who are not in the wrong.. i-e homosexuals), in the same group as murderers and rapists as the Bible does.

QUOTE
oh but wait... (pulls the ace from up the sleave)... modern law... in some states... it is legal to kill someone for just coming in your house uninvited... so i guess that makes us evil... or maybe they were influenced by out law... the Bible never condoned beating your wife... but it is indeed an old law in California that you can beat your wife with a leather strap as long as it doesn't exceed 6 in....


So it's okay for the Bible to give gross laws because there are gross laws in existence today.. in a Christian nation nonetheless?

QUOTE
in the afterlife...


And? Does no accountability in the afterlife remove our ethical judgment? There's a thing called empathy, atheists have it too.
QUOTE
really? that's interesting because if you are atheist when you go to prison... and you convert to Christian in prison... and they take a poll... guess what... you are considered as part of the Christian population in prison... they don't do studies on what religion people are before they go... because it's biased toward making a point...
i'm not saying Christians don't go to prison... i'm just saying the statistics are slanted with an agenda...


And how many atheists do you REALLY think converted to Christianity? Christians could also convert to atheism, so it remains fair. Whether the statistics are presented with an agenda or not does not change the fact that atheists make up about 5-10% of the population, yet only .1% of the prison population.

QUOTE
To get to your endless point---> Basically, you believe if the bible NEVER existed, Murder would NOT exist neither???


Is it that difficult to understand what I said? If the Bible did not exist, many murders would not have happened. I never said murder would not exist, but there would be less murders.

QUOTE
And if the law of the land said for you to kill a hyenna and sacrifce it on monday, athiest or not, I'd do it so I wouldn't get my head chopped off-- if that be the law of the land, of course. Biblical or non.
You dance around & ignore the being of Christianity, which is Jesus Christ. Conveniently you attempt to prove your point by using the OT and ancient laws/ customs- but choose to ignore what Christianity is truthfully all about-- (Christ).


There is a lot to Christianity outside of Jesus Christ. I'm saying there is a biblical basis for what those organizations were doing. There is also a biblical basis for some people who love other people, I didn't say there wasn't.. but I'm not going to write off the death of a person because another person is spreading joy. I'm not "proving my point", my point is proven, there is biblical basis for the acts commited by evil Christian organizations. That's a fact, not an opinion. I'm reiterating my point over and over again, because thephantum doesn't seem to get it.
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 4 2007, 04:33 AM) [snapback]1612340[/snapback]
Laughing at your enemies and killing them are two different things. The Bible says God will throw your enemies to hell.
And you don't think they've read the Bible? That's a baseless assumption. Take for example, the KKK. Here's the repulsive little modern home online for the KKK: http://www.kkk.bz/ The whole site is based on Christianity. That's their prime driving force.
There's a reason many things in the Bible are illegal today. And I didn't mention it saying to kill murderers and rapists because I don't place petty offenders (or people who are not in the wrong.. i-e homosexuals), in the same group as murderers and rapists as the Bible does.



So it's okay for the Bible to give gross laws because there are gross laws in existence today.. in a Christian nation nonetheless?
And? Does no accountability in the afterlife remove our ethical judgment? There's a thing called empathy, atheists have it too.
And how many atheists do you REALLY think converted to Christianity? Christians could also convert to atheism, so it remains fair. Whether the statistics are presented with an agenda or not does not change the fact that atheists make up about 5-10% of the population, yet only .1% of the prison population.
Is it that difficult to understand what I said? If the Bible did not exist, many murders would not have happened. I never said murder would not exist, but there would be less murders.
There is a lot to Christianity outside of Jesus Christ. I'm saying there is a biblical basis for what those organizations were doing. There is also a biblical basis for some people who love other people, I didn't say there wasn't.. but I'm not going to write off the death of a person because another person is spreading joy. I'm not "proving my point", my point is proven, there is biblical basis for the acts commited by evil Christian organizations. That's a fact, not an opinion. I'm reiterating my point over and over again, because thephantum doesn't seem to get it.


Great post KBA...but see these people arent real chrsitians....cuz true chrsitians would never do this kind of thing...and only true igrorance would back them up,
thaphantum
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 3 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]1612340[/snapback]
Laughing at your enemies and killing them are two different things. The Bible says God will throw your enemies to hell.


well, again... since this post are about a SPECIFIC sect of Christians... who did they kill? since you keep bringing that point up..

the Bible DOES say that He will throw HIS enemies to hell, not ours...

QUOTE
And you don't think they've read the Bible? That's a baseless assumption. Take for example, the KKK. Here's the repulsive little modern home online for the KKK: http://www.kkk.bz/ The whole site is based on Christianity. That's their prime driving force.


i don't recall the Bible saying anything about hating Jews... which the KKK pushes all the time... and Jesus was Jewish...

i don't care what anyone thinks... they KKK are an ignorant group of complete idiots... the hate Jews, but follw a religion basd on a Jewish man...

if anyone is offended by my statement about the kkk... so what...

QUOTE
There's a reason many things in the Bible are illegal today. And I didn't mention it saying to kill murderers and rapists because I don't place petty offenders (or people who are not in the wrong.. i-e homosexuals), in the same group as murderers and rapists as the Bible does.


i guess that would be a matter of opinion between you and the writers of the Bible...

QUOTE
So it's okay for the Bible to give gross laws because there are gross laws in existence today.. in a Christian nation nonetheless?


i woudldn't exactly call this a Christian nation... but whatever...

just because you don't agree with a law doesn't make it wrong or right...

i think it's wrong that cigarettes are legal... they CAN kill the person who smokes and the people around them, innocent children (for all you people on the board that smoke and say the Bible condones child abuse) and adults die everyday from cigarette smoke...

furthermore, cigarette smoke is legal... but assisted suicide isn't? what's the difference?

but just because we don't agree with a law doesn't define whether it is wrong or right... it's just our OPINION...

QUOTE
And? Does no accountability in the afterlife remove our ethical judgment? There's a thing called empathy, atheists have it too.


i never said they didn't... i'm talking about the person that comes along and does whatever they want because they THINK that this is it and it doesn't matter what they do...
Christians can act the same way if they misinterpret the Bible and think they are doing God's will...

QUOTE
And how many atheists do you REALLY think converted to Christianity? Christians could also convert to atheism, so it remains fair. Whether the statistics are presented with an agenda or not does not change the fact that atheists make up about 5-10% of the population, yet only .1% of the prison population.


lots of people convert to a religion in prison... the conversion rate is very HIGH... in fact, it is probably higher than non prison conversion... based on population inside and outside of the prison walls...

and it only makes sense that a minority belief would make up the minority of the prison population... but the statistics aren't even... if you have 5% of a population vs. 65 - 70% of the rest of the population... the number still don't add up... now if they were 50/50 i would indeed agree with you... and by the way... i left that extra few percent for other religions and beliefs...

QUOTE
Is it that difficult to understand what I said? If the Bible did not exist, many murders would not have happened. I never said murder would not exist, but there would be less murders.


really? what about the satanic bible...

rule #4 (paraphrasing) if someone in your lair annoys you... destroy them
rule #11 (paraphrasing) if someone walking down the street annoys you destroy them, but only after you ask them to stop annoying you.

that is a BLATENT act of condoning murder... no matter how you try to explain it...

QUOTE
There is a lot to Christianity outside of Jesus Christ. I'm saying there is a biblical basis for what those organizations were doing. There is also a biblical basis for some people who love other people, I didn't say there wasn't.. but I'm not going to write off the death of a person because another person is spreading joy. I'm not "proving my point", my point is proven, there is biblical basis for the acts commited by evil Christian organizations. That's a fact, not an opinion. I'm reiterating my point over and over again, because thephantum doesn't seem to get it.


there is also a societal (i think that's a word... lol) basis for everything that happens also... you could use the Bible to prove that the only reason you have morals is because of the Bible... and really you could use the Bible as a basis for proving almost anything you want to...

science... in the Bible
earth round... in the Bible
war... in the Bible
law... in the Bible
love... in the Bible
hate... in the Bible
relationship... etc... all in the Bible

so why is it when people do good... it's not such a big deal... but when a small groupd does bad... all of a sudden, that's the Bible's fault...

thaphantum
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 4 2007, 02:10 AM) [snapback]1612593[/snapback]
Great post KBA...but see these people arent real chrsitians....cuz true chrsitians would never do this kind of thing...and only true igrorance would back them up,


thumbsup.gif
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 4 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]1613075[/snapback]
thumbsup.gif

don't care what anyone thinks... they KKK are an ignorant group of complete idiots... the hate Jews, but follw a religion basd on a Jewish man...


Why are the KKK an ignorant bunch of idiots?? they believe in the bible..just like you do...they follow the same God as you do?? now correct me if im wrong...but because i dont follow your bible, you have came out with lies about things I am supposed to have said...thats a joke...and take a pop at me...almost like you are showing no mercy for what i believe in...pretty much what the KKK do...or am i missing something?? hmm.gif

Bare in mind..before you run off and claim BM supports KKK...no I DONT I am using them as an example to show you that I see you as no different to them...they are all about bashing..you have bashed me and tried your best to pick a fight, all because I dont follow your path..thats what the KKK do..bash those they DONT AGREE WITH..and if you cant see through this example..please dont post to me anymore...you are wasting my time to be honest, id much rather debate with a real chrsitian that has an ounce of witt and knows what I am talking about
StoneAgeQueen
QUOTE(SilverCougar @ Apr 2 2007, 05:34 AM) [snapback]1609414[/snapback]
Phht! Who cares if they hate us Irish wink2.gif



You're american wink2.gif
KBA
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 4 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]1613067[/snapback]
well, again... since this post are about a SPECIFIC sect of Christians... who did they kill? since you keep bringing that point up..


The medieval British monarchy killed non-believers. The crusades killed faceless hordes of people, from Syria to Hungary to France and so on, They ran around killing people in the name of God and by word of the Pope.
QUOTE
the Bible DOES say that He will throw HIS enemies to hell, not ours...


And the Bible says to make its enemies your enemies, or you'll be one of the ones getting thrown down to hell.

QUOTE
i don't recall the Bible saying anything about hating Jews... which the KKK pushes all the time... and Jesus was Jewish...

i don't care what anyone thinks... they KKK are an ignorant group of complete idiots... the hate Jews, but follw a religion basd on a Jewish man...

if anyone is offended by my statement about the kkk... so what...


They are ignorant idiots, but what they do is inspired by the Bible. They feel they have the authority to commit atrocious acts because religion and religious teaching has established elitism in their personalities.

QUOTE
i woudldn't exactly call this a Christian nation... but whatever...


The majority of adults in this nation are Christian. Thus, it is a Christian nation.

QUOTE
just because you don't agree with a law doesn't make it wrong or right...

i think it's wrong that cigarettes are legal... they CAN kill the person who smokes and the people around them, innocent children (for all you people on the board that smoke and say the Bible condones child abuse) and adults die everyday from cigarette smoke...

furthermore, cigarette smoke is legal... but assisted suicide isn't? what's the difference?

but just because we don't agree with a law doesn't define whether it is wrong or right... it's just our OPINION...


I don't care about anyone's opinion, murder is wrong. Killing someone because they are homosexual, because they work an extra day, because they won't listen to you, is murder.. it's terrorism, and it's wrong.

QUOTE
lots of people convert to a religion in prison... the conversion rate is very HIGH... in fact, it is probably higher than non prison conversion... based on population inside and outside of the prison walls...


How do you know it's very high? There are plenty of studies that say there are proportionately much fewer atheists in prison. But what study is saying the atheist conversion rate in prison is high? And there's hardly enough atheists in prison in the first place to have a high conversion rate. And outside of prison.. more conversions to atheism are happening than conversions to Christianity. The amount of adults who would call themselves Christian has been steadily decreasing for a while now.
QUOTE
really? what about the satanic bible...

rule #4 (paraphrasing) if someone in your lair annoys you... destroy them
rule #11 (paraphrasing) if someone walking down the street annoys you destroy them, but only after you ask them to stop annoying you.


I don't support the satanic Bible. I don't consider satanism any or much better than Christianity.
QUOTE
that is a BLATENT act of condoning murder... no matter how you try to explain it...
there is also a societal (i think that's a word... lol) basis for everything that happens also... you could use the Bible to prove that the only reason you have morals is because of the Bible... and really you could use the Bible as a basis for proving almost anything you want to...

science... in the Bible
earth round... in the Bible
war... in the Bible
law... in the Bible
love... in the Bible
hate... in the Bible
relationship... etc... all in the Bible


That's arguable, any "science" found in the Bible is greatly exaggerated by Christians. And the Bible is quite obviously written with the writer thinking the earth is flat. The Bible assumes you can see the whole earth from a high point in 2 different places. It talks about the earth being unable to move and says it rests on foundations put there by God. All of those are false. The Bible says that the sun is moving around the earth, saying it "scurries back to where it rises".

QUOTE
so why is it when people do good... it's not such a big deal... but when a small groupd does bad... all of a sudden, that's the Bible's fault...


Because no number of good deeds can erase all the slaughter wreaked in the name of and under the inspiration of Christianity.
thaphantum
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 4 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]1613189[/snapback]
The medieval British monarchy killed non-believers. The crusades killed faceless hordes of people, from Syria to Hungary to France and so on, They ran around killing people in the name of God and by word of the Pope.


very true... but were are talking about the WBC... so why the subject change?

QUOTE
And the Bible says to make its enemies your enemies, or you'll be one of the ones getting thrown down to hell.


can i get a verse reference for that? cause i've never read that...

QUOTE
They are ignorant idiots, but what they do is inspired by the Bible. They feel they have the authority to commit atrocious acts because religion and religious teaching has established elitism in their personalities.


i can't disagree with you on that... but look at what you said... they were taught that... but not from the Bible... the Bible doesn't teach hatred for any group...

QUOTE
The majority of adults in this nation are Christian. Thus, it is a Christian nation.


ok, i'll concede to that point... even though it is slowly becoming anti Christian...

QUOTE
I don't care about anyone's opinion, murder is wrong. Killing someone because they are homosexual, because they work an extra day, because they won't listen to you, is murder.. it's terrorism, and it's wrong.


i can indeed see your point on that too... but remember... they see it as right... so it become a matter of opinion vs. opinion... if that's the law in their society... who are we to say it's wrong... it's right for their culture...

QUOTE
How do you know it's very high? There are plenty of studies that say there are proportionately much fewer atheists in prison. But what study is saying the atheist conversion rate in prison is high? And there's hardly enough atheists in prison in the first place to have a high conversion rate. And outside of prison.. more conversions to atheism are happening than conversions to Christianity. The amount of adults who would call themselves Christian has been steadily decreasing for a while now.


you're not understanding my point... Christians are the majority... so it makes sense that there would be more of them in prison... but in order to really get an accurate number, a poll should be taken about what they believed before they went to prison...

QUOTE
I don't support the satanic Bible. I don't consider satanism any or much better than Christianity.


ok, my mistake... i apologize...

QUOTE
That's arguable, any "science" found in the Bible is greatly exaggerated by Christians. And the Bible is quite obviously written with the writer thinking the earth is flat. The Bible assumes you can see the whole earth from a high point in 2 different places. It talks about the earth being unable to move and says it rests on foundations put there by God. All of those are false. The Bible says that the sun is moving around the earth, saying it "scurries back to where it rises".


actually... you are referring to the book of Job... so let me correct you...

the Bible never says the earth is flat... not once... if you are referring to the Satan and Jesus story... those are two supernatural beings... so they could have went to a glass cup and seen the whole world as far as we know...

the Bible does indeed say the earth is round... and it DOES say that the earth doesn't rest on anything... please show me where it says other wise...

the Bible NEVER says the sun moves around the earth... please point that out too... i'll give you a hint... it's in Job... lol... but it never says that is moves around the earth...

QUOTE
Because no number of good deeds can erase all the slaughter wreaked in the name of and under the inspiration of Christianity.


i wouldn't say it's under the inspiration of Christianity... but i would say that certain men who claimed to be Christian did indeed do evil to their own liking... and tried to suprress and kill anyone who actually wanted to read the Bible for themselves... thus we now have PROTESTants...
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 4 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]1613264[/snapback]
the Bible NEVER says the sun moves around the earth... please point that out too... i'll give you a hint... it's in Job... lol... but it never says that is moves around the earth...
i wouldn't say it's under the inspiration of Christianity... but i would say that certain men who claimed to be Christian did indeed do evil to their own liking... and tried to suprress and kill anyone who actually wanted to read the Bible for themselves... thus we now have PROTESTants...

OHHHH THANK YOU MOMMAA HESTRIKES out a catholics AGAIN....where do protestants come from...stand by and watch how thaphantum will say...but BM i wasnt talking about catholics...yaa but nooo but but but BM...comes on do you honestly THINK for a split sec people will belive you arent talking about CATHOLICS??? then who are you talking about that split from a faith a christian faith hence we now have prot...est..ants...what?? hmm.gif

so sweet of you thaphantum in with hate towards a faith...my my my
KBA
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 4 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]1613264[/snapback]
very true... but were are talking about the WBC... so why the subject change?
can i get a verse reference for that? cause i've never read that...
i can't disagree with you on that... but look at what you said... they were taught that... but not from the Bible... the Bible doesn't teach hatred for any group...
ok, i'll concede to that point... even though it is slowly becoming anti Christian...
i can indeed see your point on that too... but remember... they see it as right... so it become a matter of opinion vs. opinion... if that's the law in their society... who are we to say it's wrong... it's right for their culture...
you're not understanding my point... Christians are the majority... so it makes sense that there would be more of them in prison... but in order to really get an accurate number, a poll should be taken about what they believed before they went to prison...
ok, my mistake... i apologize...
actually... you are referring to the book of Job... so let me correct you...

the Bible never says the earth is flat... not once... if you are referring to the Satan and Jesus story... those are two supernatural beings... so they could have went to a glass cup and seen the whole world as far as we know...

the Bible does indeed say the earth is round... and it DOES say that the earth doesn't rest on anything... please show me where it says other wise...

the Bible NEVER says the sun moves around the earth... please point that out too... i'll give you a hint... it's in Job... lol... but it never says that is moves around the earth...
i wouldn't say it's under the inspiration of Christianity... but i would say that certain men who claimed to be Christian did indeed do evil to their own liking... and tried to suprress and kill anyone who actually wanted to read the Bible for themselves... thus we now have PROTESTants...


Well, at any rate, I'm glad we can find at least some common ground tongue.gif.

And about the high places:
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ends of all the earth.

And the Jesus and satan story, I have to ask you though, Why does the story say they go up to a high mountain to see all the kingdoms of the earth? And why do they make clear that it is a very tall mountain? Because high places extend your vision. If they believed the earth was flat, it's perfectly reasonable to say "took him up to an exceedingly high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world".

On the topic of the earth being stationary and set on foundations:

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble." Job 9:6
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Psalm 104:5
"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. Psalm 96:10

And on the sun:

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." Ecclesiastes 1:5

May sound general, but it infers movement on the sun's part.

And the Bible does not say the earth is spherical. You are talking about Isaiah 40:22 correct? That talks about the "circle" of the earth. A circle is flat. A sphere, or ball-shaped is what the earth is, it is not circular.
Shadow_Hill
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 4 2007, 09:13 PM) [snapback]1613333[/snapback]
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." Ecclesiastes 1:5

May sound general, but it infers movement on the sun's part.

And the Bible does not say the earth is spherical. You are talking about Isaiah 40:22 correct? That talks about the "circle" of the earth. A circle is flat. A sphere, or ball-shaped is what the earth is, it is not circular.


Yeeers... a sun that hurries back to where it rises from... that says the sun moves around the earth to me... well, it goes somewhere anyway yes.gif

About the circle bit... I think I read somewhere that there wasn't a word for sphere so it was written as circle (implication being possibly a sphere though)... I could be wrong... it was someone else's information and I can't remember who said it.
Beckys_Mom
the sun doesnt rise or set...the earth orbits around the sun
GoddessWhispers
QUOTE
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." Ecclesiastes 1:5


This makes me recall what is said so often. The bible is inerrant.


Now pardon while I phone NASA and set 'em straight with a Email about Ecclesiastes.

~wanders off to compose something clever~
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(GoddessWhispers @ Apr 4 2007, 09:59 PM) [snapback]1613418[/snapback]
This makes me recall what is said so often. The bible is inerrant.
Now pardon while I phone NASA and set 'em straight with a Email about Ecclesiastes.

~wanders off to compose something clever~

I dont undeerstand how the sun rises and sets....why was it ever stated in the bible it does??? when it dont

Barek Halfhand
the AGONY.....
thaphantum
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 4 2007, 01:01 PM) [snapback]1613311[/snapback]
OHHHH THANK YOU MOMMAA HESTRIKES out a catholics AGAIN....where do protestants come from...stand by and watch how thaphantum will say...but BM i wasnt talking about catholics...yaa but nooo but but but BM...comes on do you honestly THINK for a split sec people will belive you arent talking about CATHOLICS??? then who are you talking about that split from a faith a christian faith hence we now have prot...est..ants...what?? hmm.gif

so sweet of you thaphantum in with hate towards a faith...my my my


i am clearly talking about a few POPES

notice i said a few men... not all catholics agree with what SOME popes chose to do... so again... i didn't insult the entire Catholic faith...

and as you pointed out... the original Protestants were Catholic...

are you denying that the SOME popes condoned the killing of Protestants?

i'm just talking about history... i didn't put any opinion in those statments...
hairston630
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 4 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]1613333[/snapback]
And the Bible does not say the earth is spherical. You are talking about Isaiah 40:22 correct? That talks about the "circle" of the earth. A circle is flat. A sphere, or ball-shaped is what the earth is, it is not circular.


Actually the Hebrew word for circle is "sphere or globe"....We dont use current terminology to describe the hebrew language of its time as it wasnt written in our generation.
thaphantum
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 4 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]1613333[/snapback]
Well, at any rate, I'm glad we can find at least some common ground tongue.gif.


thumbsup.gif

QUOTE
And about the high places:
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ends of all the earth.


And the Jesus and satan story, I have to ask you though, Why does the story say they go up to a high mountain to see all the kingdoms of the earth? And why do they make clear that it is a very tall mountain? Because high places extend your vision. If they believed the earth was flat, it's perfectly reasonable to say "took him up to an exceedingly high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world".


both of these were spiritual in nature... one was a vision and the other was... well i don't know to tell you the truth... i really don't know if Jesus and Satan were in the spiritual or the physical when they went on a high mountain... but like i was saying... those are two spiritual events that didn't necessarily need any logic to happen... just read the book of Revelation... John saw the end of the world... but i wouldn't assume John saw the entire world from the island of Patmos...

QUOTE
On the topic of the earth being stationary and set on foundations:

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble." Job 9:6
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Psalm 104:5
"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. Psalm 96:10


just out of curiosity.. not being sarcastic... what exactly keeps the earth in place? lol... i never thought about that... what exactly keeps us from flying off into space...

QUOTE
And on the sun:

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." Ecclesiastes 1:5
May sound general, but it infers movement on the sun's part.


we still use that terminology in todays language.... "the sun rises in the east and sets in the west" sure it's not the technical terminology... but how the layman sees it thumbsup.gif

QUOTE
And the Bible does not say the earth is spherical. You are talking about Isaiah 40:22 correct? That talks about the "circle" of the earth. A circle is flat. A sphere, or ball-shaped is what the earth is, it is not circular.


the englis says circle... the hebrew says... "khug" which can mean circle or sphere depending on context and the translator...
IamsSon
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 4 2007, 03:13 PM) [snapback]1613333[/snapback]
Well, at any rate, I'm glad we can find at least some common ground tongue.gif.

And about the high places:
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ends of all the earth.

And the Jesus and satan story, I have to ask you though, Why does the story say they go up to a high mountain to see all the kingdoms of the earth? And why do they make clear that it is a very tall mountain? Because high places extend your vision. If they believed the earth was flat, it's perfectly reasonable to say "took him up to an exceedingly high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world".

On the topic of the earth being stationary and set on foundations:

"He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble." Job 9:6
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Psalm 104:5
"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. Psalm 96:10

And on the sun:

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises." Ecclesiastes 1:5

May sound general, but it infers movement on the sun's part.

And the Bible does not say the earth is spherical. You are talking about Isaiah 40:22 correct? That talks about the "circle" of the earth. A circle is flat. A sphere, or ball-shaped is what the earth is, it is not circular.



QUOTE(GoddessWhispers @ Apr 4 2007, 03:59 PM) [snapback]1613418[/snapback]
This makes me recall what is said so often. The bible is inerrant.
Now pardon while I phone NASA and set 'em straight with a Email about Ecclesiastes.

~wanders off to compose something clever~

Are you all really so desperate to disprove the Bible that you're going to use these as examples of Biblical error?

By those standards you'd have to worry about Einstein's grasp of science if he ever told anyone he'd see them at sunset or if he ever told someone he was up before the sun rose. They are FIGURES OF SPEECH! Come on, people. If the Bible claimed to be a science textbook and to speak empirically on astronomy AND argued that the Earth was flat then you might have an argument. The Bible claims to be God's Word, and it is written so that it can be understood by common men, so it uses a great deal of recognized figures of speech. That you can't discern a figure of speech is somewhat worrisome.
GoddessWhispers
QUOTE
That you can't discern a figure of speech is somewhat worrisome.
I would concur, as I think that when ever I think of fundamentalism. And it was a reflection of that level of thought, for which that (my) figure of speech was intended. original.gif Thanks for your input.
Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 4 2007, 10:11 PM) [snapback]1613440[/snapback]
i am clearly talking about a few POPES

notice i said a few men... not all catholics agree with what SOME popes chose to do... so again... i didn't insult the entire Catholic faith...

and as you pointed out... the original Protestants were Catholic...

are you denying that the SOME popes condoned the killing of Protestants?

i'm just talking about history... i didn't put any opinion in those statments...

Why didnt you just say POPES??

But see catholic do post here too...dont you think that if you call them EVIL...someone is going to be offended??

For all you know the very owner of this site could be catholic...ever think of that??

If popes have dont this...then they where so wrong...but like the jewish people hitler gassed them one of the resons was for condemming chrsit...meaning the jews around the time of chrsit...hence the modern jews of hitlers time had to pay the price

I once saw priests interferring with lilboys as SICK...when i said it was SICK...I made apoint in saying...what they did was sick...and its unfair that the catholic church gets the blame when its not in their faith to do this...just because a few priests did sick twisted acts....

I come from a catholic family was raised one...where I come from catholics are shot in the head for just being catholics...any wonder I take a stand??

Beckys_Mom
QUOTE(IamsSon @ Apr 4 2007, 10:25 PM) [snapback]1613471[/snapback]
Are you all really so desperate to disprove the Bible that you're going to use these as examples of Biblical error?

By those standards you'd have to worry about Einstein's grasp of science if he ever told anyone he'd see them at sunset or if he ever told someone he was up before the sun rose. They are FIGURES OF SPEECH! Come on, people. If the Bible claimed to be a science textbook and to speak empirically on astronomy AND argued that the Earth was flat then you might have an argument. The Bible claims to be God's Word, and it is written so that it can be understood by common men, so it uses a great deal of recognized figures of speech. That you can't discern a figure of speech is somewhat worrisome.

I think before science saw for themselves...EVERYONE back then thought the sun rose and set again IAMS...heck I once did myself LMAO before I learnt it didnt.....but see we all need to remember that bible was writtten before man had his hands on a telescope....this much I do know....thats another lil reason why i say it couldnt have ben gods word cuz god created the sun and the earth...God wouldnt make that error

BUT..and this is the part where I am agreeing with you IAMS ...........I can see that maybe there was a misunderstanding when it was written..and remember man didnt have the technology we have today...............everyone makes a mistake ...I do it all the time LMAO why else would you read a post...look towards the bottom and read - this post was edited by BM at blaah blah time LOL im foever doing it

think of this...what if ( i know i know here is BM with another what if).....but what if it actually read in the bible....the earth revolves around the sun.......................thousands of years later Science proves it to be right..................then what??

Di you know that science has prooved one big story from the bible as CORRECT???

I posted a thread showing proof after proof...................noah ark.............aha i had all sorts of skeptics ranting at me...but I didnt budge...I posted it and it was amazing

if you like i'll show you some time yes.gif
Tangerine Sheri
QUOTE(IamsSon @ Apr 4 2007, 02:25 PM) [snapback]1613471[/snapback]
Are you all really so desperate to disprove the Bible that you're going to use these as examples of Biblical error?

By those standards you'd have to worry about Einstein's grasp of science if he ever told anyone he'd see them at sunset or if he ever told someone he was up before the sun rose. They are FIGURES OF SPEECH! Come on, people. If the Bible claimed to be a science textbook and to speak empirically on astronomy AND argued that the Earth was flat then you might have an argument. The Bible claims to be God's Word, and it is written so that it can be understood by common men, so it uses a great deal of recognized figures of speech. That you can't discern a figure of speech is somewhat worrisome.

Son by that same logic , If this is 'gods' word he is very inept, and not in tune with his own universe let alone knows it, this god is adhd and ignorant all in one... how about those humans he messed up out the door, gave em free will and has been wrathful they used it ........son I think the jokes on you hon..the question is on what basis or standard are you seeing this as gods word, or what kind of god are we talking here???A man god maybe. a god of a lesser man... ...
texasgirlheather
No need for ugliness, there is no joke that is on anyone, and that was a cheap shot.

Iams is asking a simple question. I've seen it all over here, people take simple expressions and phrases literally, trying to disprove something, when everyone knows it's a figure of speech.

I saw someone here say that the Bible says the world is flat because of the phrase, "the four corners of the earth," and I can't remember who it was now, that's bugging me. I'll think of who it was. Anyways, the next week they had used that phrase in a post of theirs. I laughed, it wasn't worth the time it would have taken to point it out. We all know what a figure of speech is, there is no sense trying to say it was used literally.

He was just asking a question, Sheri, no need to turn it into something ugly, and saying that there is a joke on anyone, that's not the spirit of UM and it shouldn't be.
Beckys_Mom
All this talk about the sun....now look...I cant get that tune out of my head...THE SUN WILL COME OUT..TOMORROW, BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR ITS TOMORROW ladee daa <--cuz I dont know the rest of the word lol

From the movie ANNIE ...
texasgirlheather
Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you, tomorrow, you're always a day away......
Tangerine Sheri
QUOTE(texasgirlheather @ Apr 4 2007, 03:59 PM) [snapback]1613602[/snapback]
No need for ugliness, there is no joke that is on anyone, and that was a cheap shot.

Iams is asking a simple question. I've seen it all over here, people take simple expressions and phrases literally, trying to disprove something, when everyone knows it's a figure of speech.

I saw someone here say that the Bible says the world is flat because of the phrase, "the four corners of the earth," and I can't remember who it was now, that's bugging me. I'll think of who it was. Anyways, the next week they had used that phrase in a post of theirs. I laughed, it wasn't worth the time it would have taken to point it out. We all know what a figure of speech is, there is no sense trying to say it was used literally.

He was just asking a question, Sheri, no need to turn it into something ugly, and saying that there is a joke on anyone, that's not the spirit of UM and it shouldn't be.

It wasn't a cheap shot IMO the joke is on him according to my philosophy there is no such diety, and ironically how vulgar to suggest one should beleive there is... Its not personal ..thisis the skeptics side you can expect some rather candid forthright POV's mine included..Its actaully in the rules posted above...i post based on my position, I'm a NB i dont' buy any of it...Its not personal to son or you or anyone anymore than your POV is.... this doesn't need to turn in to a drama of precieved insults i don't insult , I just don't see in a greater than less than filter...those that really know me see my heart and so will you as we become closer....((HUGS)))
Beckys_Mom
ELTON JOHN got it wrong by singing - No i WONT let the sun go down on me w00t.gif
Shadow_Hill
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 4 2007, 10:24 PM) [snapback]1613469[/snapback]
just out of curiosity.. not being sarcastic... what exactly keeps the earth in place? lol... i never thought about that... what exactly keeps us from flying off into space...


Well, I doubt very much that it's a load of pillars. blink.gif

But to be honest... all this stuff about pillars and foundations... does it have to be literal? A Christian is going to have to correct me here, because I am going to suggest something that might be in contradiction to Christian beliefs... but isn't the whole pillars and foundations thing perhaps not meant literally? I mean, I sometimes say "I was shaken to the core", but I'm not the earth or an apple. If you were, in the capacity of one attempting to write a statement that demontrated an effect, trying to explain that God shook the world, is it that far fetched to suggest that the earth was shaken to its very foundations? It doesn't mean anyone dug out a hole, put in foundations, and then built the world on top.

I'm not a Christian, but I am a bit on the creative side... and I'd play with the words to cause the desired effect. yes.gif

Or do Christians read it literally?
KBA
In response to everyone talking about the sun as a figure of speech.. The part that makes it seem like the sun is actually moving is not when it says "the sun rises and sets", it's when it says.. "and scurries back to where it rises." That's referring to where it rises as a place, saying that the sun is leaving and returning to that place.

QUOTE(Shadow_Hill @ Apr 4 2007, 11:44 PM) [snapback]1613685[/snapback]
Well, I doubt very much that it's a load of pillars. blink.gif

But to be honest... all this stuff about pillars and foundations... does it have to be literal? A Christian is going to have to correct me here, because I am going to suggest something that might be in contradiction to Christian beliefs... but isn't the whole pillars and foundations thing perhaps not meant literally? I mean, I sometimes say "I was shaken to the core", but I'm not the earth or an apple. If you were, in the capacity of one attempting to write a statement that demontrated an effect, trying to explain that God shook the world, is it that far fetched to suggest that the earth was shaken to its very foundations? It doesn't mean anyone dug out a hole, put in foundations, and then built the world on top.

I'm not a Christian, but I am a bit on the creative side... and I'd play with the words to cause the desired effect. yes.gif

Or do Christians read it literally?


Your "core" is the middle, or inside of you. You have a "core". The earth has no foundations, it has no pillars. If you did not know that there was no gravity in space, it would be very easy to assume that the earth was resting on something. It also says "the earth can never be moved".. but guess what? It's always moving at hundreds of thousands - probably millions - of miles per hour.
texasgirlheather
That's right, Shadow. Metaphors and similes were not invented by this generation.
Shadow_Hill
QUOTE(KBA @ Apr 5 2007, 01:11 AM) [snapback]1613730[/snapback]
The earth has no foundations, it has no pillars. If you did not know that there was no gravity in space, it would be very easy to assume that the earth was resting on something. It also says "the earth can never be moved".. but guess what? It's always moving at hundreds of thousands - probably millions - of miles per hour.


But think of it from a writer's point of view... not a scientist's. Not trying to convey scientific truth, but trying to convey the fixed nature of the world. The world does move, true. But the world doesn't move here and there at any old speed and shoot off into space. The world is moving, but there is a fixed nature about that movement from the human perspective. I know what I mean.
hairston630
just out of curiosity.. not being sarcastic... what exactly keeps the earth in place? lol... i never thought about that... what exactly keeps us from flying off into space...

It also says in Job 26:7 that "He hangs the world on nothing"....sounds like we either have a contradiction or someones misinterpreting something....which one do you think I choose?....shew I have no clue...could BE a contradiction.

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