On March 29, 2007, in Muncie, Indiana, an 8th-grade boy put urine in his teacher's coffee pot. And now two students in Bainbridge Island, Washington, applied strawberry lip gloss to their teacher's coffee mug, knowing that she was deathly allergic to strawberries. What is this world coming to. :-( What kind of punishment should these kids receive?


March 30, 2007

Police say two Bainbridge Island 12-year-old students who didn't want to go to class have admitted to intentionally poisoning their teacher - with strawberry lip gloss.

Bainbridge police officers say they were called to Sakai Intermediate School Thursday, where they discovered a 58-year-old female teacher had been poisoned by two of her female students.

It's well-known at the school that teacher Kasey Jeffers is highly allergic to strawberries. They applied strawberry lip gloss to the teacher's coffee cup and water bottle. When the teacher drank from the items, she immediately became ill. In fact, her allergy to strawberries is so severe, simply smelling them causes a reaction.

"They knew that the teacher was allergic to strawberries, they knew that if they could get her to ingest some of those that she would become ill. They actually discussed not using real strawberries because they were concerned that might actually kill her, so they decided that the best thing they could use was a synthetic strawberry," Deputy Police Chief Mark Duncan said.

The teacher didn't require hospitalization, but she did take some Benadryl and used an inhaler. She was back in the classroom today.

[The students were charged with second-degree assault and were ordered to appear in court]

To read the rest of the story, click on the link

http://www.ktvb.com/news/regional/stories/...J.16928974.html

You know, I realize the two students were only kids, but what they did is so out of order the only way to make them learn is to punish them. If they aren't punished they will think they can get away with it precisely because they are young

Locking them up will be useless in my opinion, but separating them and making them do community service might be of benefit.

And I sure as hell would hope they'd get kicked out of school.

If the teacher died, would the kids have to go to juvie for uhm... Murder? (I dont know the name manslaughter, 1st degree murder?)

For children that young, who commit serious crimes, most times they end up in a juvenile facility. For numerous reasons, these children end up more troubled once they are released than before they went in. Lets let punishments start fitting the crime…let these children do community service in a morgue, work with mentally and physically challenged children in a group home, put them to work at the garbage dump. This should be daily, not weekends only. All of these as payment for the private tutor they will need since they should never be allowed back in the public school system. The only time they should ever be allowed back in any public school is when they are cleaning the bathrooms.

They should have to do the above for the 4 years they have remaining till they graduate. They should also be required to maintain no less than a C average.

Your post regarding punishing young kids is the most sensible I've seen, having been on true crime forums since 1992. If you're in the U.S. I'd recommend you contact your local and state reps - and plant the seed. I'm wondering, too, if you started a petition and sought out signatures if this would help. It certainly wouldn't hurt.
Brava.

it was visciuos and calculated premeditation. Assigning the "child" label to these criminals is exactly why we have these types of children running around. Make examples, the oldest methods are the best. We been trying the granola eaters way for too long.

They are 12 ffs.


Yeah thats really nice. Some 12yrs make a stupid mistake by making those choices and you want to take them away from the public basically and only let them into public schools if they are cleaning the bathrooms.. And you guys are the adults? omg

I become more speechless everyday.

I've heard that in some cases children are now being prosecuted as adults. I think premeditated murder would probably lead to prosecution at the fullest extent -first degree murder- for minors of this kind. No, it wouldn't be juvi, it would be prison. I like that saying

"You do the crime, you do the time."

Yeah send a 12yr to jail. Well done.

"You do the crime, you do the time."

And that helps them does it.. when they are 12?..

It's so very sad, but I feel more sorry for the so called adults that feel that way. Like would you be happy to see a 12yr in jail? Do you really think it would help them at that age?

Some people are born worthless and evil and they're not gonna change. I think it was the 12 yr. old in Co. that will be tried as a domestic terrorist and as an adult. I have no problem with that.

By the time a child is 12 they know right from wrong. Poisoning someone is wrong. We have to stop coddling the youth. I like the idea of them going to the morgue. That was done here in BC for drinking and driving, and it worked on those teens. Murder is not cool, harming another person intentionally is not right, maybe we should stop sensationalizing crime, make it the horror that it is and turn our youth around.

That is a horrible way to think and I feel sorry for you.


Yes they 'might' know right from wrong to a certain degree but a 12yr is still a 12yr with the mind of a 12yr. Basically ask yourselves this... if that was your kid that made that dumb error during school would you want to see them punished harshly or even jailed for it? Would you want the state to do that for you and your child?


Then lets not talk about jailing them because its pretty much the same thing especially at that age.

As do I every time I read another one of your extremist liberal views. It was not a mistake, it was a planned, vicious attack. What does it matter how old they are????

I can answer this as a parent of two boys - 8 & 9. (Who, by the way, with their 8 & 9 year old minds already know it is wrong to try to hurt someone.) If my son, at 12 years old, deliberately tried to poison a teacher - knowing full well that what he was doing could seriously harm the person, I would hand him over to the authorities myself. It would break my heart, and I would probably be consumed with guilt that I had somehow failed to raise my child right.

But "Awww... poor child, he made a mistake!" ??? The woman could have died. Her children could have been left without a mother. And why? Because of a poor grade, or because the teacher was a meanie? Besides, the article states that the kids knew she was allergic, and they knew they could cause harm to her!

If my child was capable of consciously making the decision to do that, he should be taken out of the population. If my child was so egomaniacal to think that a teacher picking on him, or a poor grade, was worthy of harm, he has to be put somewhere where that attitude can not harm others.

I never said it was a mistake like that. I meant it like an error of judgement.. like when you make a stupid choice. Like a 12yr might.. which is why it kinda matters how old they are.


No, because 12yr silly girls decided to do something pretty stupid which is fair enough in someways. Hell if the kids I knew back in school knew a teacher like that they wouldve probably done it too. Because kids can be silly like that. These girls didnt want to kill her so they used something they thought might not be as bad.. so yeah... they did a stupid thing at school to the teacher.


Then that is very sad imo. To wish to take your son out of society if he makes a nasty mistake. Oh yes we can try to forgive the 'nice' mistakes but not the dangerous ones.. And to say that you would do that now at their age or even at 12 is kinda shocking to me. I just spinout.

Kazahel - I accept that this decision (that the kids made) was an error in judgement. Obviously a really serious one.

You can say that every crime is an error in judgement. (barring mental illness) Pedophilia - error in judgement - yes. So what do you do, understand and forgive them and let them go on living their life? Or take them out of the population so they don't hurt anyone else?

My 'take out of the population' does not equate to killing them or locking them away forever, or anything like that, by the way. Above all else, I would not want my child to hurt anyone else, even if it meant he had to be removed from normal life for a while.

So, what do you do about it? What is your answer? I really am curious.

It would depend on each case I guess as to how much you would have to maybe seperate anyone. But like with the girls, you would have to talk to them to understand exactly why they did what they did, and if it was just a nasty dumb immature choice, which they are sorry for, then I dont see the point in punishing them any further by removing them from 'normal' life. I think that its pointless to punish like that and its better to show/teach understanding and forgiveness, especially to the young. I mean what if they said they were really sorry and you could see they meant it... would you still think they should have to go through the courts and be locked away for awhile to teach them a lesson? To me that makes no sense. And if they arnt sorry for what they did then you would have to kinda find out why and just try to teach them to make better choices in the future. Which doesnt really happen much when they are behind bars imo. And I dont think that its good to teach especially the young that punishment means almost taking love away(in some sense) because they are not worthy anymore in the publics eye. Thats what our society does to people who.. fall, and I think its not helpful for anyone involved.

Ahh, see... that is not what I meant. I think jail or juvenile detention for the sake of punishment is wrong as well. In my opinion, the only purpose for jail is to prevent the bad thing (whatever) it is, from happening again.

In this particular instance, it is plain that these girls were trying to hurt the teacher. They had the intent to harm. Perhaps they need counseling or community service, or work to pay the teacher's medical bills or something, or their parents need some parenting lessons. SOMETHING has to be done more than "That was naughty, don't do it again." I would hope, at some point in their young life, they were already taught that it's not nice to try to hurt people.

Calling out reality is not a horrible way to think. It's just true, like it or not.

Uh, and if you really do have extremist liberal views as Saint pointed out, I have no doubt you feel sorry for me. LMAO!

I think the whole community service thing is a great idea, you have to remember that this incident sure sounds like it was planned out. This is just my opinion, but what about holding the parents accountable for their childrens actions, most parents like to blame a childs problem on television, the music they listen to, the friends they hang out with, but they never blame themselves. I grew up watching violence on tv, listening to hard rock that people at the time considered as the "devils" music, I even smoked pot in high school and college, and yea I got in trouble, but what kid didn't, but never anything that was as serious as poisoning or deleberately hurting someone. I'll admit that i'm no saint, but my parents provided me with a good solid foundation for what is right and what is wrong, as a kid growing up sometimes i didn't listen and the trouble i would get into can no way be compared to some the unbelievable crimes kids do. That's why in my opinion the parents should be held accountable to a certain degree, maybe that would send a message to other parents with troublesome kids to get more involved with their kids, don't be afraid to show that you love your kids and also know when to discipline them. The attitudes and problems that kids have today are mostly a reflection of their upbringing at home, lack of attention, verbal and physical abuse, etc...
Anyway this is the first time i have ever wrote anything in this forum, but i have been a part of it for quiet a while, and i think that most of you guys in here are good hearted and sensible people, that is why i find this forum facinating and educational.

Sorry I wasnt sure where you stood exactly on jailing because you typed.. "... or locking them away forever, or anything like that, by the way. "... It was the forever word that made me think maybe you thought it was wise for alittle which could mean a few years in some peoples minds. I wasnt sure but I understand what you mean now.


I'm sorry for saying that.. it came across kinda wrong and alittle harsh. I just spinout that people could consider anyone else worthless. Worthless is pretty major word, and for me personally I dont believe God created us to be worthless. It's just how I look at it. And I dont believe in evil really either because I think everything is of God/part of the plan. So to me there really can be no evil worthless people and when I hear it I just spinout.

Anyway.. Nice first post S.Tx.Rocker.

so you would feel justice served if they just talked to these kids and made sure that they really feel sorry?
Find out why they did is what you said. Why don't we ask rapists if they are sorry then let them walk while we're at it?

You know why youngster?
Because that would be dumb. Having a talk will not do anything to kids today, they are too switched off in that area. They are sophisticated in their methods of deception. My eight year old knows the finer points of emotional manipulation, learned from one of her friends. They can fool the best of them if they want. The kids today need extreme measures to get results.

I have to agree with holding the parents accountable. My kids are 18, 19 and 22. While I have never laid a hand on them, they learned right from wrong. It can be done if parents take the time to do it. Put your kids on a short leash. Quit letting the tv and video games be the babysitter. When they misbehave, they need punished. Don't just send them to their rooms where they have cable tv and PS3. Take it all away from them. Let them learn what a book is. Be proactive in your child's life now so they have a life in the future. It is up to us a parents to raise responsible, caring, feeling adults. Our world depends on it and right now it is looking mighty grim in that area. You go to the malls and see 12 and 13 year olds there dressed like 20 somethings and I have to wonder what the hell their parents are thinking. Parents give the kid a cellphone and think they are "in touch" with theor kid and know what they are doing. Yeah right. You only know what they tell you unless you take intrest and watch your child and govern what they do and don't do.

I know no one really cares what my opinion is but I am going to give it anyways. Should these kids be locked up? No, but they do need punished for what they did. They didn't want to take a test so they purposely made their teacher sick. The fact that they knew her allergies shows that they did give this some thought and did some planning. Community service is an awesome idea. And I don't mean just a few hours of it. Months would be great. They need to be taught now that every action has an opposite and equal reaction before they end up killing someone because they don't want to do what they should be doing in the first place. For kids like this I think that locking them up would just create an even worse criminal. They can be rehabilitated with the right actions. We as parents and adults have to find the right actions and implement them before it is to late.

For starters dont call me youngster. What is it with these 'older'(I assume) and 'wiser' (hmm) people(role models?) calling others names in an attempt to belittle. And we are not talking about rapists in this case.. we are/were always talking about 12yr girls. Which is why you do talk to them and find out if they are sorry and how they are feeling about the whole thing, and what caused them to act etc. You dont just jail them and hope they turn out ok later when they get released. And not having a talk to young kids who are starting to offend(or make mistakes in choices) would imo be the most silly thing you could do. It's the same as putting your head in the sand while hoping they get better themselves in a cell. Which is in someways what you seem to do with your child because you are afraid to talk to them incase they use emotional manipulation? So you dont bother listening at all and just punish, is that it?? Let me guess your a smacker too.. is that a safe bet? And you are talking about extreme measures for CHILDREN. Basically I shouldnt have to say anymore than that. Your views seem very old fashioned and personally I hope that way of thinking dies out soon.

And if you are going to punish these kids like adults, then give the kids the rest of their adults rights before hand. And if that aint ever going to happen..because they are kids... then they shouldnt be treated or tried like adults would be when they do make stupid childish choices.

Anyway can I just ask.. if that was your child that did that at school would you want to talk to them about it or would you just want the state to take them off your hands and punish them for you, in an extreme way such as jail?

I have been explaining to my daughter things since she was very little about right from wrong. Now, the worst case scenario will be jail when she is older by not listening to the rules (which I explain laws are the same thing). I also explain to her about the ability to keep a job for the same reasons. Why do I sit down a child and talk to her about these things? I want her to grow up to be a productive citizen when she is older, but most importantly, I want her to grow up. By "making these errors in judgments" when they are younger, how many of these children keep getting in worse and worse trouble because no one takes the time and caring to stop them in their tracks and make them accountable for their actions? It's not to be a big Meany to hold these kids accountable for a horribly premeditated action, it's to make sure they learn their lesson, because next time, it could be an even worse scenario where they could either actually kill someone, or be killed by putting themselves in a bad position. Maybe even publishing their names instead of hiding them because they are minors would shame them and their parents into stepping back and looking at where their lives are heading. It's a scary world out there, we should be preparing our children better. Helping them learn what bad "misjudgments" are in their younger years will sure as hell help them in their teens and 20s. I know I love my daughter and I will try to give her all the tools and knowledge possible to help her make as many right decisions and as little bad ones as possible.

So you are saying thats its helpful to keep communication open.. And to talk and listen to these kids who do make these mistakes when they are younger so as to help them more in the future yes? Which is pretty much what I've said. To stop them in their tracks you must speak to them first so they dont get in worse trouble later. Also sometimes it doesnt take along time for people to learn their lessons. Which is why you talk to them to find out how they are doing and not just punish them extremely and hope that does the trick. When you do that you are not caring for the child or taking the time to. You are just going for the quick and easy fix for the moment.

I wouldn't raise a monster like these two little girls in the first place. My girls get love and thats mostly what kids need in the first place. And until YOU have the responsibility for a child your opinion is not very valuable. Do you honestly think this world is such a nice place that kids don't need to learn boundries and discipline? I didn't say that my child manipulated me I said she knew the finer points of the craft, there's a difference. Read AND comprehend. Don't make assumptions unless you know what you are talking about and it is clear that you don't. Of course I spank-not smack- my children, to rienforce discipline. This is not getting to be an easier world to live in, in fact soon it will be a lot tougher. In order for my girls to survive they will have to have discipline and emotional fortitude. Thats the job of every parent, to prepare their children for the world, the REAL world, not this imaginary place they tell the kids about in school these days. I would love it if the world really was trending towards everybody being together and being happy, I would love it if the world was going to have less people living on it not more, I would love it if I was certain that my girls could get a decent job. But what I would love to happen is not going to happen.....people are not closer than they ever were thanks to nationalism, there are too many people on earth now inten years there will be almost twice as many, and when my girls go looking for a job there will likely be 5000 people applying on it.
So while I don't begrudge people thier beliefs and ideas I find people for the most part to be naive and overly optimistic. The world is not your oyster, people are going to need and iron will and discipline to survive the effects of global warming and famine, and the by product of these things WILL be large scale war if history is any teacher. As resources become more and more scarce people will become more and more desperate. And all the talking about your feelings and how they affected your actions won't mean a thing towards surviving. My girls will be going up against a bunch of feel good, lazy, halfwits, and thats fine with me.

And yes if my child did that I would turn them in.

No, what I'm saying is that this is what I'm doing. Others obviously haven't. And once the child has crossed that line to intentionally hurt another person, especially when they know that it could potentially kill that person, they had better be taught a hard lesson. Community service, sure, in the morgue, let i t hit home what death looks like. TV and movies are desensitizing the children today. If they actually saw the results of what COULD have happened, that would stick int heir minds a hell of a lot more than a "talk" after the fact. One has to remember that once a crime has been committed, the next one doesn't seem so bad, and they can escalate without the perp even realizing, stop it before it gets to that point. What my whole point was was that I love my daughter and don't want her to get into this type of situation, preventative measures are the key. Maybe more people should look at it that way-prevent the children from even getting to that point. And if they do get into a situation, make it so horrible for them that they will not even think of doing it again. I don't wnat my daughter dead because some other student "didn't think it would kill her".

they were considerate about using synthetic, but they shouldnt have done it, they need to be punished, but not severely. . . a little community service should make them a bit more thoughtfull

They were considerate about using synthetic?
What is with people, listen i shouldn't have to explain this like this but its obvious I HAVE to.
It was NOT considerate of them to use synthetic strawberry to POISON their teacher.
In fact what they did is almost the definition of the exact opposite of that. They show no consideration for thier teachers safety or health, if she had died you'd all be singing a different tune hopefully.

Well actually I've been raising my son since the moment he was born. My wife at the time went to work after a couple of months because she was like that, and since then I have been the main one looking after him. I always wanted to. After my divorce(when my son was 2 I think)I stayed as the primary carer so I'm pretty much just a house dad for my soon to be 6yr. He goes to his mums on the weekends... so I'm the one getting maintenance you know. So yeah.. should I just quote you now and say don't make assumptions blah blah blah. So really I know exactly what kids need because I parent everyday and have since my son was born and will do so for as long as I can. It's what I'm here for.


So your going to 'prepare them' by teaching them its ok to hit people.. Yes well the real world as you put it doesnt actually allow people to hit each other does it? It's usually called assault. Knowbody else is allowed to smack to 'teach' anyone, so the fact that parents are still allowed doesnt make it justifed. What you are doing when you smack or spank or whatever word you wish to use.. is teaching you child that that is how adults deal with problems or with others when they do what is considered 'wrong'. So you are teaching you kids that its ok to hit to teach etc and thats what adults do which is 'ok'. But really when they get older they then have to learn that its not ok.. You are also kinda standing over them with violence, just like a.. standover you know.

Anyway... I am not the only one who thinks this... I was watching the news the other night and I saw how they were thinking about changing the smaking laws soon because of how its teaching the young and also because some parents cant tell the difference and when in the heat of the moment they can be quite abusive in their smacking. Which is what I was saying ages ago in another thread. So for me its good to know that other people can see it now too because smacking kids is just not needed at all(it just sends them the wrong message for our society from an early age). But if you actually spend the time with kids and give them love like how you say then its not needed.. I have never had to smack or spank my child at all so far and I really cant see myself ever doing it. To me I would feel like I was failing if I had to resort to violence on my kid to get.. understanding or to inforce whatever. My son would get such a shock if I did that to him hey, I just couldnt imagine it. So yes I hope the laws do change soon because I'm sure some kids out there will benift from it as will some parents and just society in general.


After a smack first?

I have witnessed other parents who didn't parent properly, and they follow the granola way as well. You are setting yourself up to be victimized. My method has been effective for thousands of years. Your asking for trouble this way but some can't see the forest for the trees what can a person do? And no they are not thinking about changing the spanking laws, because it was already changed. They put it back to where it was because they found that there was no detrimental effects to spanking (and get that straight in your head, spanking is a couple paddles on the bum, a smacking is what you need). And that was the supreme court of Canada. There were actual benifits, so all you hand wringers can start ranting it up now.

lol dont parent properly(are you trying to say I dont?).. because you have it backwards hey... not parenting properly is when you have to resort to smacking. If you parent properly you dont need to, and it really is that simple. There are other ways to deal with punishment and imo its the parents who dont know the other ways that do all the smacking.. its basically a bad habit that they have grown up with and are still teaching because they havent learned anything else. And also I was talking about my country not yours. I saw that they were thinking of banning all smacking because basically some parents can control their smacking(just a couple of hits like you say)while others cant. So some get carried away in the heat of the moment, and if all smacking was banned then the child assaults would go down because angry parents cant lash out anymore or get the chance to get carried away. They said they also found that its teaching mixed messages to children(the adults of tomorrow)and that should really be quite plain to see. If your not allowed to hit anyone else in this world then why do you start teaching your children that you can? It makes no sense, and the fact that some people can parent without resorting to violence means that they must be doing something right imo, and it just shows a lack of control and parenting ability for those that have to use violence against their children for whatever reasons.

So it's that simple.. its a lack in the parents ability if you need to resort to hitting a child to control them or to inforce your rules of for punishment or whatever. Which really should be pretty obvious and just because they have been doing it for thousands of years doesnt make it right. There was a time when children were to only speak when spoken too as well, and I'm glad all those silly old fashioned ways are changing in time.

If your way was THE WAY don't you think we would have been doing it like that sooner?
Are you the last original person left?
I'm sure this nonsense of negotiating with children has surfaced before, unless your saying it was your idea,,didn't think so. So granting it was tried before, if it was so effective it would have caught on like wildfire. I mean you paint me as a viscious thug who gets off on beating his kids. I know I haven't described what I do as slapping my children around even though thats what you are trying to insinuate in your words. All a spank on the bum hurts is their pride, there's enough flesh there that it is not a physical hardship. I don't enjoy it at all. Also typical of someone like you, who has limited life experience, you jump all over the place. I first tell my children what they have done is wrong and if they do it again they get to sit on thier bed for a while and think about it. If they do it yet again I remind them about the previuos episodes and the consequences of them and give her one more chance to get it right( they are 8 and 4 after all) If she transgresses again I give her a spank couple few times on the bum. So your attempts to paint me as some heavy handed oger are laughable. Feelings don't count results count this method gets results. I have two brothers, my dad spanked us as children as well, so there is at least some meat to your ideas its just marching in a different direction than you think. Knowing that a spanking is waiting on the other end of disobedience is diffeerent from knowing that a heart to heart is on the other end,and if you can just pull the wool over the sheeps eyes a little bit it won't be that bad.

Well not really... I just said that I think it shows a lack of parenting ability if you feel you need to resort in spanking your kids. I also pointed out some reasons why smacking shouldnt be allowed and if you took that personally then I'm sorry for that. I guess if you smack kids you might? I dunno.. And why is negotiating with children nonsense?


Why is it that you think I have limited life experience? Can you answer that one for me first? Because I can tell you I have experienced many different things in life which I dont think you could imagine to be quite honest. So please dont try to say I lack life experience unless your going to back up your reasons why. Otherwise its all just words.. or are you just like 20 years older than me or something and is that all it is, or what? What experience do you think you have over me?? You were accusing me of having no experience before and the fact is I have been a full time dad for years now. Its all I do.. so I'm kinda experienced in what I'm talking about imo.


You painted yourself. I just made the frame for you to do it. And what do you mean feelings dont count? So your feelings, and your kids feelings dont count, but results do? Hmm.. something sounds wrong there still hey. And I cant believe you think its a good thing for anyone to know that there is a spanking waiting for them if they get out of line. That is what I would call a standover technique personally because its using the body to be intimidating.

Anyway basically.. I havent had to ever punish my son yet at all. And he is 6 soon. So I dont have any 'methods' really like sitting him down or anything because I have never had to do it. And I mean ever. Because he never does anything wrong, bad or disobedient. And that is the truth. I dont yell or anything(I talk strongly sometimes but thats it). So I have just spent my whole time teaching him as much as I can about everything in a loving way without needing to smack at all. So when I hear people telling me about how they punish their kids and there methods they use it really is kinda foreign to me. And when they say about smacking I just dont understand how both parties can get to that stage in the first place..

So yeah maybe I'm blessed with an angel, but personally I think whatever I'm doing is working. So not everyone needs to hit kids or even punish at all. So yeah...

You don't let the lunatics run the asylum, anybody knows that.
And I wouldn't take anything from someone like you personally, that would be a little below the salt.
There's always a parent like you, thinking THier little guy is the perfect one. They ussually are the type to accuse anyone else but their own child of being bad. There are no peerfect little angels, and geuss what nobody on this site would believe that who actually had kids. You mean you've actually figured out a way to send your kids to school without them bringing home ALL the things they learned there. Well you must be rich then because if you aren't you should be selling a book lauding your technique. That is every parents wish, that the things that their children see and hear at school from thier school mates could be controlled. So I doubt very much in your angelic vision of your child. You can't compete with the coverage your childs friends have and are going to have because your just an adult (Sorta), you are not your childs peer.
And you must think everyone who reads this is an idiot, nobody who has kids today can say their child NEVER acted up or done anything wrong or disobedient, only liars would.

Oh yeah thats right.. because I lack experience. ? You never answered me on that though hey.. So its still just words. So why are you so experienced anyway?


Hey I just told you I dont need to punish my kid.. because he doesnt do anything to warrant it. And I dont accuse any kids of being kids. Kids are kids and its the adults who should be adult about it, and that means acting like an adult and adults dont usually hit people do they.


I'm not into making money from books. lol. what is it with that anyway.. And I'm sorry if my truths annoy you but the fact is my kid is well behaved and since I havent needed to smack him so far I really cant see myself ever starting. Which to me is a good thing. So you can sit there and try to make me out to be a lair but really its just sad that you feel that me not hitting my kid, is a bad thing.. or so unbelievable enough to call me a liar. And if my son does play up really bad one day, or forever, I still wont hit him.
Hey look I just told how it is at my house thats all. And remember I have told you all along my sons age so it really shouldnt be that unbelievable. So yeah I honestly dont ever have to punish my kid because he doesnt do anything bad enough for me to even think about it yet. And thats a fact, and if you dont believe that then it really just leaves me in wonder as to why because to me its not a big deal. So anotherwords not every parent has to do it.. or maybe its just I dont punish over small things?? I dunno.. How about you give me a list of things which your kids do which makes you punish them or smack them? Then I can understand more your reasons and where I might be lacking. Yes?

So how about it.. you make a list of things which would warrant you smacking your child, so maybe I can understand more on why you feel the need to or why I should feel the need to, or why I should feel its wrong by not smacking children, which is pretty much what your saying. And thats to anyone... what do your kids do that is bad enough for you to hit them as punishment? I'm most curious.

Unspanked kids are nearly always brats. I'm pretty liberal in most ways, but the anti-spanking nonsense is for the birds.

That would be a fruitless exercice as well as pander to your obvious attempts to bait. You as much as said that you would never do it so why waste time and screen space. Good to see the your unemployed self has found a constructive outlet, your the MAN.
Exactly wallflower

All I was after was just a few examples... like do you hit when your kid swears or runs in the hallway or what? I'm just trying to understand what your limits are compared to mine because nothing has tested me enough for me to feel I need to hit my son. So I was just after a few examples which isnt much to ask really is it. Considering kids are so bad and need to be spanked like how you's say... then give us a few reasons why. If you dont I think its only because when you write it down it would look like you do it for silly reasons which in the heat of the moment might feel justified. So really.. I am asking so that I can understand your point of view and why you feel you need to. Which is fair enough I think considering you are so pro smacking and anti me for not smacking.

And I love how you keep trying to get personal and have been keeping up... Yes I have been unemployed since my son was born but do you know why??? Because I was the one staying home to look after him full time, That was my job. And he is still only going to preschool this year so I still need to. So your pathetic attempts to belittle me again are just exactly that.. pathetic attempts. Let me guess... I was supposed to put my son into daycare full time while I went out and worked?? Is that hows its supposed to be is it? I would rather spend the time staying at home with my son so that I could personally teach him as much as possible which I think is a wise thing for people to do with their young kids.

Basically if your just going to continue saying nonsense then I dont wish to talk to you. And I stand by everything I've said... if you have to resort to smacking your kids then it should of never of reached that point in the first place, so it just shows a lack in your ability to parent. Not mine.

And Wallflower.. you are wrong because you cant possibly know for a fact that you are right. But if you think its needed, then how about you give us some examples where you would need to smack your child. ? Because I'm just trying to understand.

So if I don't say what you want you take your toys and go home?
everyone will pining for you till your return count on it. You made it personal first with your condesending attitude.
And we are all sure that the reason you are at home is personal preference, like you prefer not to work, I've heard it all before.
And frankly for someone so out there I feel no need to justify anything to you, too bad YOU've taken my words so deeply maybe it struck a chord you didn't want to hear. There is no failure on my part in parenting my oldest daughter is the teachers favorite student for her manners and consideration for others, something I managed to instill in her with my barbaric ways.

Can I quote one of your first posts in this thread..


And that was your second post. Did it sound alittle condesending...


FFS you just dont get it do you. I dont work because I chose to stay home as the full time dad because my wife at the time wanted to work and I wanted to father, and its that simple. And there is nothing more I would rather do. And why the hell am I even having to talk about that with you?! You are trying to make out things which you have no knowledge of and you are basically just spitting venom at me because I dont hit my kid and because I think its not needed. You have also basically called me a liar ffs and that is why I dont wish to talk to you. Because you are quite rude and have been all the way. Just re-read your posts.

lol. Take your words deeply... thats because you've been trying to call me a liar with no experience which I think wasnt called for. Like where did all that come from? You started off assuming I didnt have any kids for starters in your condesending way. And what do you want me to say now... do you want me to go on about how my kid is the smartest in his class and was reading at a 9yr lever last year(a year before preschool).. and that he is playing chess and is well behaved etc etc... I mean I got those results from not hitting. And thats just the way it is.

So I guess.. some need to hit and some dont. And it doesnt make the parents who dont hit wrong or the kids who dont get hit 'brats'.

Thats an old wives tale.

its the way you speak and see things that made me think it. If you want to convince people that you are in fact an adult try to write so you don't come off as an immature sarcastic teenager and people won't make that mistake.

And I should act like you have in this thread so far?.. Does that make me an adult? Or should I just smack kids?.. thats what 'real' adults do?.. your not a real adult unless you do that. ?.. because thats pretty much what your saying in some ways hey.

And what makes you think you have convinced me that your an adult? Sheesh. Just read the thead and how you started and came in. And if you cant give just a few simple examples of why you hit kids, then I think that says everything. But anyway..


Nah, I'm quite happy how I am thanks, I am that I am, and I'm sure not going to change for people like you. I guess I'm still young at heart.. maybe I still got it? Ah whatever..

I think I'm possessed by a cheshire cat!

possessed by the chesire cat? maybe i still got it?
Being a parent is not easy there are a lot of tough choices you have to make. Go ahead and promote this style all you want im sure you wont think twice later in years when your child treats your idea of obedience and discipline like paper mache. Good luck when they are a teenager.

Yes I guess I'll just have to see how it all goes later in life. But if my son turns out like everyone else.. happy.. healthy..smart.. etc.(which so far he's doing really well).. then I'll be happy that I never had to use those methods in parenting. Wouldnt you be?.. And I'm sure my son will respect me for not using that form of punishment. And when he is older(a teenager), I would think its even more important to not smack because at that age you should be able to talk to them more easily without resorting to it.

Growing up, I was never spanked. If I played up, the worst I would get is my dad reaching over and giving me a thick ear (a small painful flick to my earlobe). It was the same with my sister, and you know, we're both in University getting degrees, working good jobs, neither of us ever did drugs or alcohol, and we are both (imo) on a good track in life. My parents divorced when I was young but both gave me freedom like you wouldn't believe, but they also brought me up to know right from wrong, without ever resorting to spanking.

I'm not saying spanking is wrong or that kids who aren't spanked don't grow up to be brats, cause I'm sure in some cases they do. However I don't think that those parents who chose not to spank their kids are in the wrong, it's their decision how to discipline their kids and I don't think spanking is necessarily a deciding factor in how your kids grow up. When I was 14 I had a friend who's mum took her out of our school because she thought I was a bad influence on her daughter (who forged her mum's signature and said I did it when her mum found it) and then a year later I hear news that this girl took her mother's BMW and drove it into a tree. And I can recall plenty of times when I would visit this girl when we were in primary school and her mother would give her some good wallops.