Remember the "soup Nazi" episode on Seinfeld? No soup for joo! Aaaany way...

The no pork for Jews was mentioned and I wanted to start a thread on these "rules" found in the bible and other religious texts as well.

Why? Because so many of these "rules" were applicable at the time. Multiple wives, no pork, prayer before meals, ritual cleaning, ritual food preparation, and on and on. The why of it is interesting to me. So pick a "rule", any religion, and tell us why the rule made sense AT THE TIME IT WAS WRITTEN. Like so...

No pork: pigs were not "domesticated" like they are now, and keeping swine actually caused disease from the living conditions, food preparation practices, and common practices of caring for domestic animals. The no pork rule was a health thing more than anything else. As an extra, I have heard that pork flesh is VERY much like human flesh ( human flesh is actually referred to as "long-pork" in some instances ). I wonder if there might be a tie-in somewhere in antiquity to taboos regarding cannibalism.

Now YOU do it! Don't debate necessarily, just speculate and make it interesting. Sources are cool too. I am just more interested in what people think when applying logic to what seems like illogical rules.

I tend to agree on what you just stated.

Sure, just like the "sacrifice" of Jesus. Outdated mythology.

The BIBLE is no longer applicable.
It was written in and for an age where humans were extremely different. Our ideals were different, our living conditions, our jobs, our families and relationships, our impact on communities, animals and the environment, etc etc. Just about everything in the bible, except for basic stuff such as no killing or stealing or cheating on your neighbours wife, is NOT applicable to this present day and age.

really? because if i recall, a lot of us wash our hands under running water... alot of us bathe under running watter... we still quarantine people with diseases... we still wash our dishes after we use them... we still have trials with a jury... most of our laws are based on Biblical law... the Bible stated that earth was floating on nothing... (most cultures believed something held the earth up)

shall i go on? not all cultures practiced those things back then... so remind me again why it's out dated...

Bah, you guys are missing the point. WHY were some of these old biblical (or any other religion) laws important THEN.

Though the comments about running water and washing were close. This isn't a DEBATE about the validity of religious law, but rather a discussion of the rules and why they were relevant THEN.

I’m curious why shellfish was banned in scripture, what do you think?

Not supposed to shave.. Yet people do.

Not supposed to touch a woman while she's being visited by Aunt Flo... Yet people do.

Not supposed to eat rabbits... mmm rabbits *ducks thrown objects from DW*

Not supposed to eat shell fish... yet people do.

Not supposed to work on the sabbeth... yet people do.

Not supposed to wear man made fibers... omgs polyester *HISS*

Not supposed to drink blood... But blood makes meat nummy and juicy! Gods.. didn't them Isrealites know how to cook back then?

There was something wrong about garden veggies as well.. but I can't remember what.

Oh and phan.. Do you make your sin sacrifices and what not?

The not supposed to shave thing does not make sense.

Well if people of today are not supposed to take the bible seriously as it was written for those back in the day.............then why bother with the bible??

Is it some sort of - lets all pick and choose what to follow and preach about..leave some out..there ya go..do this but dont do that...

dont make sense..cuz if you want to follow the bible...DO IT..ALL OF IT..not just a bit here and a bit there..a half arsed effort

It was most likely banned for the same reason it can be bad to eat today at certain times of year, bad algae. Possibly?


Also, my husband was raised on a pig farm, and the more animals they had, the worse the disease and parasites became without modern intervention with vaccinations, dewormers and antibiotics. He believes that the domestication of animals is partially responsible for the dangers that people of the past faced when consuming, or even living near domesticated animals, and I think I agree. Even salmon and trout bought from a fish farm, or released from a hatchery have more problems than wild populations.

Well, multiple wives kind of makes sense. A man can make many many babies, a woman can only make one every nine months... so if you think about what the mortality rate must have been like, more wives = more chance of heirs who actually survive to continue the human race.

Regarding eating pork, I wonder if it is something to do with the fact that pigs will eat anything and maybe food poisoning and impure meat is the result - also on a more sadistic note, apparently when people were burned at the stake a few hundred years ago, the smell was rather like smokey bacon - they may be more like our make-up biologically than we realise.

As for shellfish, is it really in the Bible that we are not supposed to eat it? If so, it could be that severe food poisoning can result from one bad item, I know my mum said that she would not touch any shellfish since she had extremely bad poisoning off one cockel when a teenager. Personally, I don't eat shellfish, I don't like they way they have to be cooked (boiled alive).

That's true. You have to be especially careful with predatory/omnivorous animals as they are more prone to parasites, etc.

OK, I'm not sure if I'm doing this right but:

Right after woman had babies, they had to go take a bath in the cleansing pools, and submerge their entire bodies. I could give my fascist opinion on this matter, but I think I'll just give the answer how I have interpreted it from the bible. I feel it was to cleanse the blood from the woman, because women were considered unclean if bleeding at all.

Don't recall that one, but I do know that it rests on pillars and has four corners (at least according to your bible)...LOL

Actually it's a disk being carried by four elephants who are standing on the back of giant turtle. (if you don't know what I'm going on about, you're all heathens. )

Finally some interesting ideas. I think:

pork = bad meat/too much like human flesh (multiple people weighed in on this one).

shellfish = bad meat because it had to be ALIVE when cooked or spoiled VERY rapidly

That was from Lotus. She answered that question I think without realizing it.

multiple wives = 9 months to make a baby for a women vs. 5 minutes for a man Silent summed that one up.


OK, that's three that had answers, how about the rest? There are tons (as Silver pointed out without any ideas as to why!!).
Whats up with the apparent fear of womans reproductive stuff? Like a period had an assortment of rules...was that to subjugate women, or to protect them? What I mean is, like the no pork rule maybe was to keep people from getting ill. Is there a possible logical reason for "period" rules that I am missing? A reason it might be important to recognize and ritualize such an occurrence?

Another one is the veiled women. I have heard that was originally so that angels would not see women and "take" them sexually. Also I have heard it is to protect them from men (who in some societies seem unable to control their sexual urges ). Any comments on this? Why would this be made into a rule? Not a mystical reason, but what REAL reason could there have been.

It's odd that you saw the bit about sin sacrifices and passed over the whole animal part?

Leviticus 11:2 - Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

:3 - Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat

:7 - And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

:10 - And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any lining thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you. (shellfish? But shrimp and lobster are cool since they have scales and fins? I tried squid in a Chinese buffet the other week, so I'll agree with the O.T. on it...but no crab...no clam chowder? Damn!)

It goes on about birds and bugs (we can eat locusts, beetles and grasshoppers! Joy of joys! ) and animals with paws. I guess I'll have to stay away from Chinese buffets altogther now.

The bit about shaving. Have any of you tried shaving with a straight razor? Well, imagine doing it with a rough edged knife. Maybe it was fear of self inflicted wounds. Maybe they were gittery. Perhaps the risk of unintentional suicide was too much.

The blood? Look at all the diseases that can be passed by blood, and remember we're not thinking aids and STD's. Besides the superstition, it's a health risk in any time and age. I don't think there's been anything about cooking, but drinking blood is...well...it's blood! A lot of people believed that blood was the well of life in a creature, a fountain of the soul. Maybe it was about not "tainting" oneself with the essence of a beast.

*shrugs*

I was going by memory. *chuckles*

I can't believe you all can't put your differences aside for the sake of a frickin parlor game for crying out loud!!!!

Sheesh.


Multiple wives is simple. WAR. With a lot of men dying in the wars there weren't a lot to go around. Since fornication was a big no no, the solution is multiple wives. Its also a way to build back up your numbers.

The part about not being with a women when she has her periods. Your all asking why and 'm surprised no woman has commented. Do you guys realize most women get SEVERE CRAMPS when they have their periods either at the beginning or the whole time? Do you really think a woman WANTS to have sex when she's having CRAMPS in her uterus, going down her legs etc? Hell no. Plus, it's just plain dirty in my opinion. It's 'bad blood' and other assorted tissue which gets expelled.

As for shellfish I'm sure it did have something to do with the fact that they had to be boiled alive (that's inhumane) and they carry diseases, rot easily and many people are just plain allergic to it. Pork, which I can't stand the smell of let alone the taste (and it has nothing to do with me being Jewish) eats everything as one person said, and it's close to human flesh, and you can still to this day get severly ill from eating pork because pork, unlike other meats CARRIES DISEASES.

walk like an egyptian.....

Damn. I would disagree. Number one, in the male dominated society we are speaking of, womens comfort was NOT really a consideration. Men didn't care if a woman wanted sex or not. "Bad blood"? I'm a guy, and that's offensive to ME! It's natural...it's uterine lining, not bad tissue.

Maybe these "rules" had to do with reproduction, trying to increase birth-rates?

I don't think inhumanity had anything to do with it. Disease maybe, like the pork thing. Also, I can't imagine that people that far back had any idea what allergies were...

Ummm, "other" meat carries disease too. As a matter of fact, just as much as pork. The problem is that pork is harder to maintain in a domesticated setting. I get the impression you dislike pork quite a bit.

Keep in mind what the original idea of this post is about.

The menstruation thing...

Imagine the tasks women had to carry out in those days... working, drawing water from a well, cooking and serving food, going to market. Ain't nobody getting me heaving about big buckets of water when I'm in that condition. I would imagine that the separation of women from others and the confinement of her to her home would give her a much needed rest from all that cooking and shopping (yes, you can have too much shopping ). And the no sex bit... well, who wants blood all over everything? Nasty stuff. You can't get the stains out of fabric. And it can be painful for the lady. Seems like a sensible thing to me.

I wouldn't mind a week of peace and quiet... no chores... just me and my books and nobody bothering me.

Did men in the Bible have to wash themselves when they had an event down below? I read that there were Jewish rules about that... that they'd have to cleanse themselves... don't know about whether or not it's in the Bible.

Contrary to popular belief Judaism does not 'dominate' women and women have more rights in Judaism (which was founded on the OT) than they do in Christianity where in Christianity women are seen as 'lower' and the cause of humanities fall to 'sin'. Jews do not believe this, that is a Christian idea. Christianity is more male dominated (conversely Jesus was very pro-women, buthis followers were decidedly not, hence while I believe in Jesus I discard ALL Pauline NT texts because they were written by someone who did not have any direct contact with God, angels or even Jesus himself. Some with any other text NT or OT which meets that criteria will also be regarded as irrelavent - except for perhaps historical history - in my opinion.)

Any I realize it is uterine lining but it is libing which has been discarded so therefore IS 'bad blood'.

geee ashley talk about graphic details lol blooddy heck (pardon the pun) but im speachless LMAO


I just say to my BF..umm aunt flow is here sorry love not tonight or the usual excuse I got a headache

but see now he has copped on to the headach excuse..so before sex he gives me two pain killers...in advance...LMAO

You really make me chuckle.

Its true...asprin doesnt hold any effect on me anymore...my body is so well used to it now

Take a lot of it do you?

I believe that is actually Indian (India)

Where the Iraquoise (Native American) believes the world was on the back of a giant turtle.

As for the don't eat shellfish because of the boiling alive thing since it's "inhumane" I guess killing an animal is more humane? It doesn't make sence to me, since boiling something alive is still killing it... like having to chop off a cattle's head or whoever they killed them back then. It's just one less step to getting yummy lobster with your surf and turf...

Doesn't anyone read Terry Pratchett? The greatest writer who ever lived? Heathens the lot of you!

ummmmmmmmmmm yeaa ..if I jumped up and down..i would rattle

ive only read the first page so far, so dont know if anyone else has hit on this.....the dont drink blood rule....

how might the folks at the last supper have felt being told by jesus to drink his blood....even sybolically it must have challenged them?

just a thought...gonna read on now.....great thread btw...agree with the health reasons for why pork and shelfish was out....back then at least....mmmm bacon

w'hey.... im a believer ... bet CMOT Dibbler would have had a bit of trouble selling his wares in jerusalem

Indeed. Although, nobody's ever been able to prove there actually is pork in his sausages.

Thanks-I have brought this up many times. I am gladd someone noticed-any believing jew at the table would have run out of the room screaming, if it had really happened that way!

Somehow I can't imagine people seeing bread, hearing "body", or smelling wine and hearing "blood" and running from the room screaming "oh no, he wants us to become cannibals!"

If you'd been around someone who spoke in metaphors you'd be used to them doing it... well that's my thought on the subject anyhoo.

Maybe, but if it really happened, and the events were recorded by Jews, they would have known about matzoh. The Greek word for unleavened bread is not used at the last supper. Why? Because the authors were gentiles, writing in the fourth century, trying to force conversion on the pagans. The Jews had already rejected the Notzrim (original Christians) in the first century.

I would have to agree on the health reasons also with regards to pigs and shellfish. It seems that creatures deemed a scavenger are in the unclean dept. When I field dress a wild hog it is one animal I absolutely must wear gloves when cleaning it. They are littered with various parasites. I soak the meat in a citrus based marinade for three days that kills off parasites in the meat and tenderizes it. Then I fire up the Bar-B and chow down. But, if you do not do this you can literally open up a can of worms so to to speak.