i posting this in response to a few posters who said Revelation is too cryptic to understand...
which it isn't... Revelation is clearly written...
so i'm asking that anyone who thinks it's cryptic give some examples of what exactly you think is cryptic... and i'll attempt to use my "decoder ring" to shed some light on it...
and i'll tell you how i came to my conclusion...
Full Version: Is Revelation Cryptic
I think Revelations is perfectly well written and clear - just terribly misunderstood. For example, many don't realize how the Internet and the Great Pyramid are spoken of in there. Sorry. No time or space to prove my theories. That'll have to wait until June or July. And for the record, I think little in Revelations can be seen as negative or catastrophic. It is a message of hope and positive change. The infamous "beast" for example, is neither bad nor good - it is neutral.
QUOTE(Osirian @ Apr 6 2007, 11:03 AM) [snapback]1616177[/snapback]
I think Revelations is perfectly well written and clear - just terribly misunderstood. For example, many don't realize how the Internet and the Great Pyramid are spoken of in there. Sorry. No time or space to prove my theories. That'll have to wait until June or July. And for the record, I think little in Revelations can be seen as negative or catastrophic. It is a message of hope and positive change. The infamous "beast" for example, is neither bad nor good - it is neutral.
which beast are you referring to? the one that convinces people to worship the 2nd beast? or the 2nd beast that kills everyone that doesn't worship him?
and by the way... i'd be interested in hearing your theory about the Internet being in there... i have an assumption of what you might be talking about... but i always saw it as satelite t.v.... but i guess the internet could apply too... although what i'm talking about isn't in revelation...
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 6 2007, 11:08 AM) [snapback]1616185[/snapback]
which beast are you referring to? the one that convinces people to worship the 2nd beast? or the 2nd beast that kills everyone that doesn't worship him?
and by the way... i'd be interested in hearing your theory about the Internet being in there... i have an assumption of what you might be talking about... but i always saw it as satelite t.v.... but i guess the internet could apply too... although what i'm talking about isn't in revelation...
and by the way... i'd be interested in hearing your theory about the Internet being in there... i have an assumption of what you might be talking about... but i always saw it as satelite t.v.... but i guess the internet could apply too... although what i'm talking about isn't in revelation...
Why does the book have to be cryptic at all? To me, it's just a circle you could go around forever.
QUOTE(Vague @ Apr 6 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1616201[/snapback]
Why does the book have to be cryptic at all? To me, it's just a circle you could go around forever.
???
QUOTE(Vague @ Apr 6 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1616201[/snapback]
Why does the book have to be cryptic at all?
?
QUOTE(Vague @ Apr 6 2007, 11:24 AM) [snapback]1616201[/snapback]
To me, it's just a circle you could go around forever.
Because I believe it's outdated. Is there ever going to come a time when people say "If Jesus was gonna come back, he would have done it by now".
Heh - a lot of what's in Revelation would never have made sense except with today's technology. I know I sound like a whackjob in regards to saying how I think the internet and computers and the Pyramid are in there, but hey, saying something has no relevance at all (especially for a book such as this) is like saying bald is a color.
I know my belief isn't a popular one, but I don't think that Revelations should be in the Bible at all. I think it's a letter written by a very angry man, who wasn't much of a prophet, and it's contemporary to the time it was written. It has nothing to do with today. Don't blast me out of the water for saying this--I KNOW it's not popular thinking for most Christians.
QUOTE(Vague @ Apr 6 2007, 11:45 AM) [snapback]1616232[/snapback]
?
Because I believe it's outdated. Is there ever going to come a time when people say "If Jesus was gonna come back, he would have done it by now".
Because I believe it's outdated. Is there ever going to come a time when people say "If Jesus was gonna come back, he would have done it by now".
why would anyone say that? lol... your argument fails because there are signs of His coming that havne't been fulfilled yet...
to say that He would have come by now is an assumption...
on the same token i could say... if the sun was going to burn up... wouldn't it have done so by now?
none of the right circumstance have come to pass for either event to happen yet...
QUOTE(Osirian @ Apr 6 2007, 11:56 AM) [snapback]1616246[/snapback]
Heh - a lot of what's in Revelation would never have made sense except with today's technology.
But people have been saying that forever.
It's like the secret to keeping people's attention. You know what it is? I'll tell you later.
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 6 2007, 05:57 PM) [snapback]1616163[/snapback]
i posting this in response to a few posters who said Revelation is too cryptic to understand...
which it isn't... Revelation is clearly written...
so i'm asking that anyone who thinks it's cryptic give some examples of what exactly you think is cryptic... and i'll attempt to use my "decoder ring" to shed some light on it...
and i'll tell you how i came to my conclusion...
which it isn't... Revelation is clearly written...
so i'm asking that anyone who thinks it's cryptic give some examples of what exactly you think is cryptic... and i'll attempt to use my "decoder ring" to shed some light on it...
and i'll tell you how i came to my conclusion...
I was talking about other prophecies in the Bible besides the book of Revelation. The Old Testament prophecies are pretty cryptic also. Since you decided to limit this to the book of Revelation I will give you one from there.
A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enourmous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
Ok, I know your going to say the male child is Jesus, but what does the rest of it mean? What does it mean by clothed with the sun? What does that represent? What does the moon under her feet represent? The crown of twelve stars could represent the twelve tribes of Israel. I'm just guessing. I don't know what they are actually supposed to represent. What does the woman represent? Who or what is being taken care of for 1,260 days. Some people think it is all symbolic, but even if you know the symbolism you're still guessing as to its meaning. I can tell you that light often symbolises the word of God, so the sun could represent the word of God. That's just a another guess. I don't know what the sun is actually supposed to represent. What does the rest of it symbolise? How does it all fit together? Nobody really knows what this prophecy means. Everybody who claims to know is just guessing to its meaning.
A lot of the prophecies in the Bible are like this one. Nobody really knows what they mean, so people try and guess what they mean. If they really came from God then I don't think he wants anybody to know what they mean that's why they're so cryptic. Apparently God doesn't want people to know his plans.
There is a prophecy in the book of Ezekiel that I have never been able to figure out what it means. Back when I was a Christian I tried to figure out that prophecy. I could never figure it out. I don't think anybody has been able to figure that one out. I've never heard anybody explain what that prophecy means. I think I know why. God doesn't want anybody to figure it out. That's why nobody can figure it out. If I find it I'll post it. It talks about four wheels, if I remember correctly there were wheels within wheels.
QUOTE(MissMelsWell @ Apr 6 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]1616257[/snapback]
I know my belief isn't a popular one, but I don't think that Revelations should be in the Bible at all. I think it's a letter written by a very angry man, who wasn't much of a prophet, and it's contemporary to the time it was written. It has nothing to do with today. Don't blast me out of the water for saying this--I KNOW it's not popular thinking for most Christians.
Revalations was written by one man, but he could've been one of three things-
A prophet(least-likely)
A man pissed at the Roman Empire(most likely)
A heavily, HEAVILY schizophrenic loon(somewhere in between)
Even the whole thing about "The Beast" and the "Number of the Best"...666 is the number of the Roman emporer Nero..
i had a feeling i was going to get asked this question first... lol... you should have given me something hard...
alright... lets see...
secret decoder powers activate...
this part actually has a few meanings... it's a vision of the past and future all at once...
The sun is the father - Jacob
The moon is the mother - rachel
12 stars the tribes of Israel... Genesis 37:9-10
it's symbology from Josephs Dream
the entire vision is of the nation of Israel in the sense that it is giving birth to Christ and then the Christian religion...
Jesus was Jewish as i think we all know
The dragon is Satan... Revelation 12:9
ready to devour the man child... Matthew 2:13
seven heads are kingdoms (the antichrist divides the world into 10 territories, but kills 3 rulers and divides it among them) Daniel 7:13-28
10 horns are rulers (3 get killed) Daniel 7:13-28
the third part of the stars on the dragons tail are other angels... Revelation 12:9
The male child was Jesus... who will rule with an iron sceptor... Psalms 2:9
the 1260 is the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation (the first 3.5 is peaceful)
before i hear... 1260 doesn't equal 3.5 years... the Hebrew calendare is 360 days per year...
that is the general intepretation of the prophecy...
what makes it slightly difficult to understand is that although it was written in Greek... the general language struction is in Hebrew context... so some scholars believe that John had this vision in Hebrew and translated it back into Greek...
with that said... basically it breaks down like this...
the Jewish culture bears the Christ... which Herod was waiting to kill Him as soon as He is born... (historical)
the antichrist seeks to slaughter the Jews, but God has prepared a place for them to go somewhere in the wilderness (Matthew 24:15-21)... the Church is raptured at some point before this... 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (future)
i will add that there are about 30 references to that particular section... but i didn't want to go through and get them all...
it's all perfectly clear... no guessing needed...
it's not cryptic... just written for people who really want to undertand it... not people who want to glance at it and use it like a crystal ball...
that wasn't a prophecy... lol... that's probably why you had trouble figuring out the meaning... it was the vision he had and he was just telling what he saw... that is when God first revealed Himself to Ezekiel... that's why it's the first chapter...
QUOTE(Jim88 @ Apr 6 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]1616405[/snapback]
I was talking about other prophecies in the Bible besides the book of Revelation. The Old Testament prophecies are pretty cryptic also. Since you decided to limit this to the book of Revelation I will give you one from there.
alright... lets see...
secret decoder powers activate...
QUOTE
A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enourmous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
this part actually has a few meanings... it's a vision of the past and future all at once...
The sun is the father - Jacob
The moon is the mother - rachel
12 stars the tribes of Israel... Genesis 37:9-10
it's symbology from Josephs Dream
the entire vision is of the nation of Israel in the sense that it is giving birth to Christ and then the Christian religion...
Jesus was Jewish as i think we all know
The dragon is Satan... Revelation 12:9
ready to devour the man child... Matthew 2:13
seven heads are kingdoms (the antichrist divides the world into 10 territories, but kills 3 rulers and divides it among them) Daniel 7:13-28
10 horns are rulers (3 get killed) Daniel 7:13-28
the third part of the stars on the dragons tail are other angels... Revelation 12:9
The male child was Jesus... who will rule with an iron sceptor... Psalms 2:9
the 1260 is the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation (the first 3.5 is peaceful)
before i hear... 1260 doesn't equal 3.5 years... the Hebrew calendare is 360 days per year...
that is the general intepretation of the prophecy...
what makes it slightly difficult to understand is that although it was written in Greek... the general language struction is in Hebrew context... so some scholars believe that John had this vision in Hebrew and translated it back into Greek...
with that said... basically it breaks down like this...
the Jewish culture bears the Christ... which Herod was waiting to kill Him as soon as He is born... (historical)
the antichrist seeks to slaughter the Jews, but God has prepared a place for them to go somewhere in the wilderness (Matthew 24:15-21)... the Church is raptured at some point before this... 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (future)
i will add that there are about 30 references to that particular section... but i didn't want to go through and get them all...
QUOTE
Ok, I know your going to say the male child is Jesus, but what does the rest of it mean? What does it mean by clothed with the sun? What does that represent? What does the moon under her feet represent? The crown of twelve stars could represent the twelve tribes of Israel. I'm just guessing. I don't know what they are actually supposed to represent. What does the woman represent? Who or what is being taken care of for 1,260 days. Some people think it is all symbolic, but even if you know the symbolism you're still guessing as to its meaning. I can tell you that light often symbolises the word of God, so the sun could represent the word of God. That's just a another guess. I don't know what the sun is actually supposed to represent. What does the rest of it symbolise? How does it all fit together? Nobody really knows what this prophecy means. Everybody who claims to know is just guessing to its meaning.
it's all perfectly clear... no guessing needed...
QUOTE
A lot of the prophecies in the Bible are like this one. Nobody really knows what they mean, so people try and guess what they mean. If they really came from God then I don't think he wants anybody to know what they mean that's why they're so cryptic. Apparently God doesn't want people to know his plans.
it's not cryptic... just written for people who really want to undertand it... not people who want to glance at it and use it like a crystal ball...
QUOTE
There is a prophecy in the book of Ezekiel that I have never been able to figure out what it means. Back when I was a Christian I tried to figure out that prophecy. I could never figure it out. I don't think anybody has been able to figure that one out. I've never heard anybody explain what that prophecy means. I think I know why. God doesn't want anybody to figure it out. That's why nobody can figure it out. If I find it I'll post it. It talks about four wheels, if I remember correctly there were wheels within wheels.
that wasn't a prophecy... lol... that's probably why you had trouble figuring out the meaning... it was the vision he had and he was just telling what he saw... that is when God first revealed Himself to Ezekiel... that's why it's the first chapter...
QUOTE(Dr. Strangelove @ Apr 6 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]1616409[/snapback]
Revalations was written by one man, but he could've been one of three things-
A prophet(least-likely)
A prophet(least-likely)
seeing how he was one of the desciples... i would think this is the most likely...
QUOTE
A man pissed at the Roman Empire(most likely)
while this is likely... it has NOTHING to do with visions of Revelation...
QUOTE
A heavily, HEAVILY schizophrenic loon(somewhere in between)
what brings you to that conclusion?
QUOTE
Even the whole thing about "The Beast" and the "Number of the Best"...666 is the number of the Roman emporer Nero..
had nothing to do with Nero... 666 is the number of a lot of prominent world leaders... but they aren't the ones he was talking about... Nero doesn't fit the description for a lot of reasons... one being... he didn't have a false prophet that could call down fire from heaven... and he didn't build a giant statue that talked...
we do have the technology to make it appear as if someone is calling down fire from heaven... and we do have the technology to make talking statues..
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 6 2007, 09:39 PM) [snapback]1616456[/snapback]
i had a feeling i was going to get asked this question first... lol... you should have given me something hard...
alright... lets see...
secret decoder powers activate...
this part actually has a few meanings... it's a vision of the past and future all at once...
The sun is the father - Jacob
The moon is the mother - rachel
12 stars the tribes of Israel... Genesis 37:9-10
it's symbology from Josephs Dream
the entire vision is of the nation of Israel in the sense that it is giving birth to Christ and then the Christian religion...
Jesus was Jewish as i think we all know
The dragon is Satan... Revelation 12:9
ready to devour the man child... Matthew 2:13
seven heads are kingdoms (the antichrist divides the world into 10 territories, but kills 3 rulers and divides it among them) Daniel 7:13-28
10 horns are rulers (3 get killed) Daniel 7:13-28
the third part of the stars on the dragons tail are other angels... Revelation 12:9
The male child was Jesus... who will rule with an iron sceptor... Psalms 2:9
the 1260 is the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation (the first 3.5 is peaceful)
before i hear... 1260 doesn't equal 3.5 years... the Hebrew calendare is 360 days per year...
that is the general intepretation of the prophecy...
what makes it slightly difficult to understand is that although it was written in Greek... the general language struction is in Hebrew context... so some scholars believe that John had this vision in Hebrew and translated it back into Greek...
with that said... basically it breaks down like this...
the Jewish culture bears the Christ... which Herod was waiting to kill Him as soon as He is born... (historical)
the antichrist seeks to slaughter the Jews, but God has prepared a place for them to go somewhere in the wilderness (Matthew 24:15-21)... the Church is raptured at some point before this... 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (future)
i will add that there are about 30 references to that particular section... but i didn't want to go through and get them all...
it's all perfectly clear... no guessing needed...
it's not cryptic... just written for people who really want to undertand it... not people who want to glance at it and use it like a crystal ball...
that wasn't a prophecy... lol... that's probably why you had trouble figuring out the meaning... it was the vision he had and he was just telling what he saw... that is when God first revealed Himself to Ezekiel... that's why it's the first chapter...
alright... lets see...
secret decoder powers activate...
this part actually has a few meanings... it's a vision of the past and future all at once...
The sun is the father - Jacob
The moon is the mother - rachel
12 stars the tribes of Israel... Genesis 37:9-10
it's symbology from Josephs Dream
the entire vision is of the nation of Israel in the sense that it is giving birth to Christ and then the Christian religion...
Jesus was Jewish as i think we all know
The dragon is Satan... Revelation 12:9
ready to devour the man child... Matthew 2:13
seven heads are kingdoms (the antichrist divides the world into 10 territories, but kills 3 rulers and divides it among them) Daniel 7:13-28
10 horns are rulers (3 get killed) Daniel 7:13-28
the third part of the stars on the dragons tail are other angels... Revelation 12:9
The male child was Jesus... who will rule with an iron sceptor... Psalms 2:9
the 1260 is the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation (the first 3.5 is peaceful)
before i hear... 1260 doesn't equal 3.5 years... the Hebrew calendare is 360 days per year...
that is the general intepretation of the prophecy...
what makes it slightly difficult to understand is that although it was written in Greek... the general language struction is in Hebrew context... so some scholars believe that John had this vision in Hebrew and translated it back into Greek...
with that said... basically it breaks down like this...
the Jewish culture bears the Christ... which Herod was waiting to kill Him as soon as He is born... (historical)
the antichrist seeks to slaughter the Jews, but God has prepared a place for them to go somewhere in the wilderness (Matthew 24:15-21)... the Church is raptured at some point before this... 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 (future)
i will add that there are about 30 references to that particular section... but i didn't want to go through and get them all...
it's all perfectly clear... no guessing needed...
it's not cryptic... just written for people who really want to undertand it... not people who want to glance at it and use it like a crystal ball...
that wasn't a prophecy... lol... that's probably why you had trouble figuring out the meaning... it was the vision he had and he was just telling what he saw... that is when God first revealed Himself to Ezekiel... that's why it's the first chapter...
That's not what it means. You don't really know what it means. You just think you do. If talking about the past why is it even the book of revelation. Why would the woman be clothed with her father? Why is the moon under her feet, if it is supposed to be her mother? Where in the Bible does it say that the sun symbolises Jacob? Where does it say the moon symbolises Rachel?
Ok, you were right that is in the first chapter of Ezekiel. What does it mean? It must mean something even if you don't believe it is a prophecy.
I must confess I believe some of the Bible actually did come from God, but I don't believe it is the word of God. Christianity isn't the true religion. How do you know God hasn't been deceiving you? How do you know people haven't altered the Bible? I know that very little of the Bible is accurate. I know there are prophecies in the Bible that God didn't want anybody to know what they mean.
Tell me what is the mark of the beast? There is a prophecy nobody has been able to figure out. People can only guess what it means. I know what it means, but I bet you don't. You will never figure out what the mark of the beast is. You know it isn't really supposed to prevent people from buying and selling. That part didn't come from God.
I tell you another place where somebody altered the Bible. In the Old Testament it says God is jealous of idols. It says God is jealous of a piece of wood. God isn't really jealous of a piece of wood and he wouldn't tell people that he was. Some man put that in the Bible. That didn't come from God.
QUOTE(Jim88 @ Apr 6 2007, 03:59 PM) [snapback]1616593[/snapback]
That's not what it means. You don't really know what it means. You just think you do. If talking about the past why is it even the book of revelation.
actually its exactly what it means... it's moreso talking about a group of people... the circumstance and it's importance to the future... the vision is indeed futuristic... but you obviously ignored that too...
QUOTE
Why would the woman be clothed with her father? Why is the moon under her feet, if it is supposed to be her mother? Where in the Bible does it say that the sun symbolises Jacob? Where does it say the moon symbolises Rachel?
i provided you with the sources to the symbols... and you obviously didn't read any of them...
further more... the woman is Israel... not the man... the nation... the sun, the moon, and the stars appear in Joseph's vision... and they are explained there... read the passage i gave you in the interpretation...
and while we're at it... you can't clothe yourself with the sun or wear stars on your head...
it almost seems like you didn't read what i said... it makes sense because it's the whole Jewish faith presented as a vision...
and if you didn't know... God always refers to Israel as a female and sometimes as a whore...
so before you ask me where it says those things... maybe you should pick up the Bible and check the verse i provided...
QUOTE
Ok, you were right that is in the first chapter of Ezekiel. What does it mean? It must mean something even if you don't believe it is a prophecy.
i can't say that it means anything... because he is describing what he saw... as far as the stones he was describing... it is generally believed that is how they described colors... by relating them to colored stones...
QUOTE
I must confess I believe some of the Bible actually did come from God, but I don't believe it is the word of God. Christianity isn't the true religion. How do you know God hasn't been deceiving you? How do you know people haven't altered the Bible? I know that very little of the Bible is accurate. I know there are prophecies in the Bible that God didn't want anybody to know what they mean.
i believe the whole thing came form God... lol... and it's funny you asked the question about God decieving us... i've thought about that myself... for maybe 2 minutes... because if He was... what could we do about it?
we still have to die and face Him...
people HAVE altered the Bible, but not on purpose... it's an interpretation flaw... English words are absolutely horrible when it comes to translating other languages... that's why i encourage any serious person that is interested in Bible study... to learn Greek and Hebrew... both of which are very easy to learn...
QUOTE
Tell me what is the mark of the beast? There is a prophecy nobody has been able to figure out. People can only guess what it means. I know what it means, but I bet you don't. You will never figure out what the mark of the beast is. You know it isn't really supposed to prevent people from buying and selling. That part didn't come from God.
already explained it to you in the other thread...
and can you prove that part didn't come from God?
QUOTE
I tell you another place where somebody altered the Bible. In the Old Testament it says God is jealous of idols. It says God is jealous of a piece of wood. God isn't really jealous of a piece of wood and he wouldn't tell people that he was. Some man put that in the Bible. That didn't come from God.
no... it says God is jealous of people Worshiping that piece of wood... not of the wood itself... it's the practice of calling something else God...
i could point out tons of places the Bible was altered...
Zechariah 12:10 for one... but that's a whole other conversation... i have a list of altered parts that make vastly more sense when you read the Hebrew and Greek...
the english version is very watered down...
QUOTE(Vague @ Apr 6 2007, 07:24 PM) [snapback]1616201[/snapback]
Why does the book have to be cryptic at all? To me, it's just a circle you could go around forever.
I see your point...I mean its been going on and on and on and on for hundreds and hundreds of life times over and over ..all saying jesus is coming..these people that say it have died and gone...the next genreration and the next generation after that all keep saying it...he is coming...still no sign....
If he was going to come..he would have done it by now..finished
I can say, the chrsitian of today will be long gone..and the next generation will all say it...and the next.............and the next
yes it has been going around in circles for ages..around and around and around and around...making me dizzy LMAO
its a Tool used IMO to get others to accept Jesus...thats it...IMO..the catholic church has used this tool...for as long as I can remember..even added in one of their famous prayers...that goes like this ----> He will come again, to judge the living and the dead, his kingdom will have no end ..........when the catholic preist says that in the prayer..its to get you to believe Jesus is really coming....I say will come on already!!!
PLEASE NOTE that IMO means IN MY OPINION...LOL
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 7 2007, 08:11 AM) [snapback]1617410[/snapback]
I see your point...I mean its been going on and on and on and on for hundreds and hundreds of life times over and over ..all saying jesus is coming..these people that say it have died and gone...the next genreration and the next generation after that all keep saying it...he is coming...still no sign....
all true until you said... "no sign"
the sign was Israel coming back to their land in 1948... and then taking back Jerusalem in 1968... which was the exact sign we were to look for... it started the countdown clock... but the thing is.. other cultures weren't waiting for that sign... the whole thing is still dependent on Israel... and that's one reason Hitler was trying to wipe them out... believe what you want... but antisemetism is nothing new...
people really have no reason to hate them... but they want them gone... because the whole of Bible prophecy revolves around the nation of Israel...
QUOTE
If he was going to come..he would have done it by now..finished
think of it like this... if you left out of town and told your husband.. "i'll be back" lol... but you didn't give him a specific time... and after 3 days his friends started to say... if she was coming back, she would have done so by now... would that make them right?
QUOTE
I can say, the chrsitian of today will be long gone..and the next generation will all say it...and the next.............and the next
not so much... we actually have the technology available today for a lot of those prophecies to come true... in the past... the technology hadn't caught up to the prophecies...
QUOTE
yes it has been going around in circles for ages..around and around and around and around...making me dizzy LMAO
its a Tool used IMO to get others to accept Jesus...thats it...IMO..the catholic church has used this tool...for as long as I can remember..even added in one of their famous prayers...that goes like this ----> He will come again, to judge the living and the dead, his kingdom will have no end ..........when the catholic preist says that in the prayer..its to get you to believe Jesus is really coming....I say will come on already!!!
PLEASE NOTE that IMO means IN MY OPINION...LOL
its a Tool used IMO to get others to accept Jesus...thats it...IMO..the catholic church has used this tool...for as long as I can remember..even added in one of their famous prayers...that goes like this ----> He will come again, to judge the living and the dead, his kingdom will have no end ..........when the catholic preist says that in the prayer..its to get you to believe Jesus is really coming....I say will come on already!!!
PLEASE NOTE that IMO means IN MY OPINION...LOL
i agree... some people do use it as a tool... i've never said as a means to convert anyone... actually, most of the time i keep it to myself... i just find it interesting to open the Bible and find verse that are front page news...
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 7 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1617494[/snapback]
people really have no reason to hate them... but they want them gone... because the whole of Bible prophecy revolves around the nation of Israel...
think of it like this... if you left out of town and told your husband.. "i'll be back" lol... but you didn't give him a specific time... and after 3 days his friends started to say... if she was coming back, she would have done so by now... would that make them right?
think of it like this... if you left out of town and told your husband.. "i'll be back" lol... but you didn't give him a specific time... and after 3 days his friends started to say... if she was coming back, she would have done so by now... would that make them right?
If I left town..and said - i'll be back .....(cant help but think of Arnold Schwarzenegger for some reason lol).........but didnt say WHEN..and after 3 lil days I didnt return...family would get worried...but years fly by...still no sign...dude I would most likely be pronounced DEAD LMAO
You cant comapre a real life thing with a belief faith...two different issues LMAO...heck if you said - i'll be back...and didnt turn up for several months...your family would be going NUTS..and if you didnt turn up for several years...you would have been pronounced long dead...body never found
Jesus...if said this..didnt say when...well think about it...why didnt man say WHEN Jesus would be back, when he wrote this in the bible??
I'll tell you WHY............cuz man had no clue WHEN............man has been saying this line for donkeys years now
Your family had been waiting..their family before them ..had said the same thing..all waiting...for what?? nothing has happened
No technology can tell you when Jesus WILL come...science can NEVER prove ANYTHING that is linked to a religious FAITH....its impossible
people have been banging on about what they believe is a sign for years now...these same people been waiting..seen nothing and passed on....
Jesus aint coming....never has been...IMO <--lok its my belief...not the same as yours lol please understand this...especially you...(bad memories of you getting annoyed over my beliefs before so I must stress this)
I belive that If Jesus was to say he was coming again..he would have said WHEN...he wouldnt be the type to leave everyone guessing......
what about all of those hat have waitied...not a sign...not a glimpse
here is another thing you have yet to think about................Say a man has claimed I am HE..I have come again and soon will judge you ALL..............are you going to believe him ??
I doubt you would believe him..I'd say, you would ask him for proof...just like everyone else....you would say - SEEING IS BELIEVING...but ironically you would believe in text written by men...with out REAL actual proof at all............
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 7 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1617494[/snapback]
the sign was Israel coming back to their land in 1948... and then taking back Jerusalem in 1968... which was the exact sign we were to look for... it started the countdown clock... but the thing is.. other cultures weren't waiting for that sign... the whole thing is still dependent on Israel... and that's one reason Hitler was trying to wipe them out...
There have been many likely reasons suggested for Hitler's hatred of the Jews... that wasn't one of them.
QUOTE(Shadow_Hill @ Apr 7 2007, 10:04 AM) [snapback]1617548[/snapback]
There have been many likely reasons suggested for Hitler's hatred of the Jews... that wasn't one of them.
it has been PROVEN that Hitler was involved in occultic practices... so i can't help but suggest that there might have been demonic influence there...
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 7 2007, 09:59 AM) [snapback]1617539[/snapback]
If I left town..and said - i'll be back .....(cant help but think of Arnold Schwarzenegger for some reason lol).........but didnt say WHEN..and after 3 lil days I didnt return...family would get worried...but years fly by...still no sign...dude I would most likely be pronounced DEAD LMAO
You cant comapre a real life thing with a belief faith...two different issues LMAO...heck if you said - i'll be back...and didnt turn up for several months...your family would be going NUTS..and if you didnt turn up for several years...you would have been pronounced long dead...body never found
Jesus...if said this..didnt say when...well think about it...why didnt man say WHEN Jesus would be back, when he wrote this in the bible??
I'll tell you WHY............cuz man had no clue WHEN............man has been saying this line for donkeys years now
Your family had been waiting..their family before them ..had said the same thing..all waiting...for what?? nothing has happened
No technology can tell you when Jesus WILL come...science can NEVER prove ANYTHING that is linked to a religious FAITH....its impossible
people have been banging on about what they believe is a sign for years now...these same people been waiting..seen nothing and passed on....
Jesus aint coming....never has been...IMO <--lok its my belief...not the same as yours lol please understand this...especially you...(bad memories of you getting annoyed over my beliefs before so I must stress this)
I belive that If Jesus was to say he was coming again..he would have said WHEN...he wouldnt be the type to leave everyone guessing......
what about all of those hat have waitied...not a sign...not a glimpse
You cant comapre a real life thing with a belief faith...two different issues LMAO...heck if you said - i'll be back...and didnt turn up for several months...your family would be going NUTS..and if you didnt turn up for several years...you would have been pronounced long dead...body never found
Jesus...if said this..didnt say when...well think about it...why didnt man say WHEN Jesus would be back, when he wrote this in the bible??
I'll tell you WHY............cuz man had no clue WHEN............man has been saying this line for donkeys years now
Your family had been waiting..their family before them ..had said the same thing..all waiting...for what?? nothing has happened
No technology can tell you when Jesus WILL come...science can NEVER prove ANYTHING that is linked to a religious FAITH....its impossible
people have been banging on about what they believe is a sign for years now...these same people been waiting..seen nothing and passed on....
Jesus aint coming....never has been...IMO <--lok its my belief...not the same as yours lol please understand this...especially you...(bad memories of you getting annoyed over my beliefs before so I must stress this)
I belive that If Jesus was to say he was coming again..he would have said WHEN...he wouldnt be the type to leave everyone guessing......
what about all of those hat have waitied...not a sign...not a glimpse
there have been cases where people have diappeared for years... then came back out of nowhere... such is the case with a lot of missing persons... and sometimes people just leave for whatever reason... but it has happened... and certain cases... people say they were on a journey with aliens/fairies/gnomes/etc... and for all we know... they were... lol... we can't prove that they weren't... we just know they were gone...
all i can say is that the Bible provides the exact date of when Israel would be returned to their land... and the exact date when they would reclaim Jerusalem... that's a FACT... it's in the OT... and that's sign Jesus referred to that would start the count down clock...
so that fact that He didn't come when people think He should have came doesn't mean a thing... we're on God's time... not man's...
edited: i forgot to address something you posted
QUOTE
here is another thing you have yet to think about................Say a man has claimed I am HE..I have come again and soon will judge you ALL..............are you going to believe him ??
I doubt you would believe him..I'd say, you would ask him for proof...just like everyone else....you would say - SEEING IS BELIEVING...but ironically you would believe in text written by men...with out REAL actual proof at all............
I doubt you would believe him..I'd say, you would ask him for proof...just like everyone else....you would say - SEEING IS BELIEVING...but ironically you would believe in text written by men...with out REAL actual proof at all............
it's not something i have to think about... lol... Jesus already said that when He comes back... everyone will know... it won't be a secret...
also... i have my own life experiences with spirits and the supernatural world that tells me that men don't have all the answers... and the answers that i have found to be true and relevant have come from the Bible... but i don't go to church because i don't find that to be needed in my personal spiritual journey...
i believe in the gods of every ancient culture... the difference is... i don't believe they are gods... but fallen angels posing as gods... it's my OPINION and could put up a decent argument for it... but don't assume i accept things without proof... because in the end... my personal experience is all i need... and no man can tell me that i haven't experienced certain things in my life...
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 7 2007, 07:14 PM) [snapback]1617628[/snapback]
there have been cases where people have diappeared for years... then came back out of nowhere... such is the case with a lot of missing persons... and sometimes people just leave for whatever reason... but it has happened... and certain cases... people say they were on a journey with aliens/fairies/gnomes/etc... and for all we know... they were... lol... we can't prove that they weren't... we just know they were gone...
all i can say is that the Bible provides the exact date of when Israel would be returned to their land... and the exact date when they would reclaim Jerusalem... that's a FACT... it's in the OT... and that's sign Jesus referred to that would start the count down clock...
so that fact that He didn't come when people think He should have came doesn't mean a thing... we're on God's time... not man's...
edited: i forgot to address something you posted
it's not something i have to think about... lol... Jesus already said that when He comes back... everyone will know... it won't be a secret...
also... i have my own life experiences with spirits and the supernatural world that tells me that men don't have all the answers... and the answers that i have found to be true and relevant have come from the Bible... but i don't go to church because i don't find that to be needed in my personal spiritual journey...
i believe in the gods of every ancient culture... the difference is... i don't believe they are gods... but fallen angels posing as gods... it's my OPINION and could put up a decent argument for it... but don't assume i accept things without proof... because in the end... my personal experience is all i need... and no man can tell me that i haven't experienced certain things in my life...
all i can say is that the Bible provides the exact date of when Israel would be returned to their land... and the exact date when they would reclaim Jerusalem... that's a FACT... it's in the OT... and that's sign Jesus referred to that would start the count down clock...
so that fact that He didn't come when people think He should have came doesn't mean a thing... we're on God's time... not man's...
edited: i forgot to address something you posted
it's not something i have to think about... lol... Jesus already said that when He comes back... everyone will know... it won't be a secret...
also... i have my own life experiences with spirits and the supernatural world that tells me that men don't have all the answers... and the answers that i have found to be true and relevant have come from the Bible... but i don't go to church because i don't find that to be needed in my personal spiritual journey...
i believe in the gods of every ancient culture... the difference is... i don't believe they are gods... but fallen angels posing as gods... it's my OPINION and could put up a decent argument for it... but don't assume i accept things without proof... because in the end... my personal experience is all i need... and no man can tell me that i haven't experienced certain things in my life...
You frgot about this lol ---> here is another thing you have yet to think about................Say a man has claimed I am HE..I have come again and soon will judge you ALL..............are you going to believe him ??
I doubt you would believe him..I'd say, you would ask him for proof...just like everyone else....you would say - SEEING IS BELIEVING...but ironically you would believe in text written by men...with out REAL actual proof at all............
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 7 2007, 11:22 AM) [snapback]1617636[/snapback]
You frgot about this lol ---> here is another thing you have yet to think about................Say a man has claimed I am HE..I have come again and soon will judge you ALL..............are you going to believe him ??
I doubt you would believe him..I'd say, you would ask him for proof...just like everyone else....you would say - SEEING IS BELIEVING...but ironically you would believe in text written by men...with out REAL actual proof at all............
I doubt you would believe him..I'd say, you would ask him for proof...just like everyone else....you would say - SEEING IS BELIEVING...but ironically you would believe in text written by men...with out REAL actual proof at all............
i didn't forget lol... i must have been editing when you read it... or when you were responding... i remembered after i had posted the reply and went back and added it in...
QUOTE(thaphantum @ Apr 7 2007, 07:28 PM) [snapback]1617646[/snapback]
i didn't forget lol... i must have been editing when you read it... or when you were responding... i remembered after i had posted the reply and went back and added it in...
Crafty LOL
every time I enter a thread now im going to think its about satan...satan bloddy satan.....if people are careful guests that visit uus are going to think this board is full of Satan lovers or something
QUOTE(Beckys_Mom @ Apr 7 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]1617656[/snapback]
Crafty LOL
every time I enter a thread now im going to think its about satan...satan bloddy satan.....if people are careful guests that visit uus are going to think this board is full of Satan lovers or something
every time I enter a thread now im going to think its about satan...satan bloddy satan.....if people are careful guests that visit uus are going to think this board is full of Satan lovers or something
lol... yeah the satan threads are getting out of hand... lol... does every other thread need to be a seperate question or statement about satan?
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