There are some critical flaws to the Christian logic of Satan’s reputation as God’s enemy.

The most serious flaw is in the chronology. Supposedly, just after creation, some angels lead by Satan rebelled against God. Satan came to Eve in the Garden of Eden as a serpent and tempted her and Adam to sin.

However, throughout the rest of the Old Testament, whenever Satan appears by name, he acts as an adversary for God, not against God. There could not be any adversary involvement in Eden. It doesn’t make sense that Satan and God patched up their differences.

The chronology extends to the NT. Luke tells us that Satan entered into Judas. If God sent Jesus to die for men’s sins, as Christians maintain, then he was acting on behalf of God. This takes us to the end of the Gospels with Satan and God working in a cooperative relationship.

3Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot… (Luke 22:3)

In between, there are two occasions in which God and Satan conspired to test their subject. The first was when they conspired to test the limit of Job’s faith. The second was when God brought Jesus to Satan to be tempted.

To Jews, the serpent symbolized evil—that is all there was to it. There were no fallen angels; this idea came about as a result of a bad interpretation of Isaiah. On other occasions in Genesis in which Satan is blamed, there is no evidence of satanic influence. In sum, Satan was not God’s enemy.

The word “satan” originates in the Hebrew language, meaning to act as an opponent or adversary. More than any other religion, Christian propaganda gave a lot of weight to scaring believers into their fold. To absolve God of evil, Satan's Accusers took the OT angel of God, and elevated him to the full status of a rival god by reversing the OT context of “adversary.”

To understand where Christianity is coming from, we have to look at it allegorically. In Light Verses Dark it was shown how light symbolized good and darkness symbolized evil—ancients had a fear of darkness. God represents light and Satan represents darkness. Christians see them as opposing forces, while Jews see only one God responsible for everything.

Allegorically, the half of a day when the sun is rising, God is rising to glory against Satan. When the sun is falling on the other half, darkness is increasing in power against the sun. Thus, Satan becomes perceived as a fallen angel. Satan is an adversary in the sense that darkness is an adversary to light. See Bible Astrology.

The religious mind has a tendency to look at matters in isolation. When the evidence is examined in entirety, it comes out that it was his accusers who bear false testimony. By decreeing the world full of sinners, Christian theology elevated Satan to status of a god with more influence on human consciousness than Jesus. But in reality, this whole sordid affair began as a personification of light verses dark.

Satan is a god
In God's Pantheon it was stressed that none of the biblical monotheistic religions are truly monotheistic. Just because angels are not worshipped and all but a few have names, they still fit the definition of “god,” with a small “g”. According to Webster’s dictionary:

Any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature; deity, esp. a male deity: typically considered objects of worship

In mythological accounts, all of the various gods had supernatural powers. Some of them were described as part human part god. But in every way, they fit the definition of god as angels do. For example in English, we call a legged object with a flat surface a table. We could describe the same object in French, German, Russian, or Spanish, but it is still the same form we know as a table.

A word is not the thing it represents. A word does not change the form. By any name, anything described as a being with supernatural powers is a god.

As a point of difference between the OT and the NT, Jews don’t subscribe to the idea of two competing gods. Yahweh takes credit for all weal and woe. That would have to include his power over satan with a small “s.”

5I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I gird you, though you do not know me,
6that men may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the Lord, who do all these things. (Isa. 45:5-7)

There is no other God besides Yahweh.

35To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord [Yahweh] is God; there is no other besides him. (Deut. 4:35) (Article Continues)




Link edit

If Satan is powerless unless God allows him to act, then he acts in accordance with the wishes of God doesn't he? And if Satan is necessary to "God's plan" in that he tempts man away from God, then how is he God's enemy... he is aiding and abetting God in the salvation of mankind. Ultimately, isn't God pulling the strings? So how is Satan God's enemy? Isn't he doing what God wants him to?

wow.. anyone familiar with the Bible would actually read this and LOL

Another SATAN thread LMAO i'll be seing Satan in my sleep now!!!



I think thats the only time anyone would ever see him...in a dream LMAO

I request you respect the rules of the forum. If you have nothing constructive to say, please keep the flame to yourself.
Thank you.

Yes well, another god thread would be ordinary.

ooohhhh MEAOWW ...BM fights back the claws of GW...DUN DUN DUN


Girl I wasnt complaining....LMAo...of course everything is about GOD...God pops up everywhere

just saying it looks like its now SATANS DAY LMAO

I am so not complaining...why would I?? I dont belive in Satan anyhoo its not as if I worship him...please relax

90% of the stuff you say ISN'T constructive... and your post is laughable because the whole thing is ABSOLUTELY false...

this is one person's dream of what it should mean... further more... the author is obviously not familiar with Jewish culture...

lets see... God and satan never had a truce... in the Bible satan Always works against God...

satan was trying to get rid of Jesus... not fulfill God's purpose... satan did that on accident...

God did conspire to test Job... He didn't conspire to test Jesus...

OT believers DON'T consider satan to be equal to God... but an angel subordinate to God...

Christians see good and evil... God and satan as oposing forces... not light and dark...

Christians don't worship satan... so his definition of satan as a god is WRONG in refernce to what Christians believe...

blah blah blah... rest of the article...

is that constructive enough?

Why dont you let the rest of the chrsitian speak for themselves then blimey!!

I didn't know I was not relaxed. It was all taken in good humor BM. You'll note the that should have been a hint.

Might as well let the wingged party boy out of his basement for some attention. After all, if it wasn't for the devil, there'd be nothing to save us from.

actually i figured i'd continue to address the article you posted... since i actually read the whole thing... i'll put numbers to correspond to the numbers he addressed on his site...

1) the angel of the Lord IS NOT satan...

2) satan influenced david to number israel... even though it was against God's law... so God in His anger said ok...

3) there is a difference between being AN adversary and the reference to THE adversary in the sense of a supernatural being...

4) same point as #3

5) satan is never mentioned... neither is the word adversary...

6) again... not talking about satan...

7) wow... he actually got one right...

8) again... not talking about a supernatural being...

and finally... the author wasn't aware that Jews wrote the NT... which is evident by his final thoughts and closing argument...

very interesting waste of time that was...

And thank you for making the free choice to waste it, in a thread you disdain.

Anyone ever tell you that you are boring LOL?? too high strung with the bible...RELAX a lil unwind gee wizzz ...

lol... i was actually bored when i wrote that... did it show?

i just dropped the first comment and said LOL at the whole article... but GW said i should contribute... lol...

and since i had already WASTED my time reading it... i figured i might as well comment...

I think that's an excellent point. After all, given god has no qualms about killing his adversaries, why did he let the devil and his minions to live after the rebellion in heaven. And can omniscience be rebelled against?

I thought this was an interesting read, to go along with the topic.



satan (1 Chr 21:1)
The qualities and character of the creature known as satan are almost all debatable. He is thought to be a cherub or ex-cherub, and he's been expelled from heaven. We know that he lead an insurrection, but it is highly unlikely that his following is organized in the way that God's following is organized. Suffice to say that he poses no threat to God and is certainly not an equal counter-pole. Christ's victory over satan at His resurrection is a victory obtained for mankind. There is no indication that God and satan ever came to blows personally. Satan is not omnipresent and not onmipotent or omniscient. He has no ability to create, and indications are myriad that he is not even able to govern or manage any large number of creatures (see• Beelzebub). Nothing that is commonly ascribed to satan (darkness, fire, evil) actually belongs to satan, as everything belongs to God. The functional essence of satan may even have originated in a true purpose; the trying and hence actualizing of the potential of God's creation. In the Book of• Job (which in itself is monstrously complicated and difficult to place, especially chronologically) satan is still allowed an audience with God and God renders him a specifically limited authority to try Job. Satan goes at it and doesn't cross the line, and perhaps this is why satan is not rebuked in the Book of Job. In stead, in the conclusion of Job's story it reads, "...they consoled him and comforted him for all the evil that the Lord had brought on him."

The events surrounding the Fall Of Man (Gen 3) may be understood as satan violating a specific limitation set by God: see what they'll come up with but don't make them feed off the Tree Of Knowledge Of Good And Evil.
What exactly went wrong we don't know, but satan became proud and may have even tried a coup against God. The arch-angel• Michael (means Who Is Like God? Or: What's God Like?) engaged satan and his squad and cast them out.
These things are very difficult and are certainly not easily explained in any common terms. (What may help is to imagine heavenly causality to rest upon space-time causality the way a cube sits on a flat square that forms one of its sides.)

Finally we note that satan has a much larger and romantic and defined role in general culture than in the Bible, and we stress again that the Bible certainly does not support the dualistic idea that the realm of darkness eternally battles the realm of light. Satan is not God's counter-pole.

The name satan, (satan 2252a)—and the feminine form• Sitnah: — come from the verb (satan 2252) to resist or be an adversary and is used six times in the Bible (Psalm 38:20: '...they me because good follows me.')
The noun (satan 2252a) is used much more frequently, and only a few of these occurrences denote the big bad guy:
1 Ki 11:14, "And YHWH raised up to Solomon; Hadad the Edomite..."
1 Ki 11:23, "And Elohim raised up to him; Rezon son of Eliadah..."
In Numbers we even see this noun ascribed to the Angel of YHWH:
Numb 22:22, "...and the Angel of YHWH set Himself in the road as ..."
And verse 32, "I have come as because your way is contrary to Me."
In the NT Jesus rebukes Peter by saying, "Go behind me ,..." (Mat 16:23), illustrating the difficulty that translators run into when the same word is translated sometimes as a regular verb or noun and sometimes as a defining personal name. Every now and then Jesus' words are transliterated from Aramaic and it is highly unlikely that He personified Peter with the devil.
None of the sources used make mention of a linguistic connection to the following words, but the letter nun is often placed after a root to create a phrase that isolates or personifies the conceptual action of the root. Whether this actually happened with the word may be less important than any audience's supposition.
(sut 2240) means swerve or fall away, as used in Psalm 40:4 (NAS: lapse; NIV: turn aside). Derivation (set 2240a) means swerver, revolter as used in Hosea 5:2.
The verb (sata 2250) means turn aside, turn, decline, and always from a good way into a bad one. TWOTOT notes that the Aramaic cognate of this verb means to stray, and the Ethiopic one to be seduced.

If I read a thread that I see is a waste of time...I simply make an exit...I dont sit and post to complain...and yap about it showing anger pointing out things I dont like..to prove some silly point..just for the sake of complaining

its easy...you click...look...see its waste of space..and you make a fast exit..moving on to a thread that is worth it

but you see just because you dont agree with it...others will.....I know you have a big problem with something and opions that dont match yours..I call that selfish LMAO...RELAX its only the internet

ps--you are still boring lol *runs out of thread*

One of the main functions of formalized religion is to protect people against a direct experience of God. ---Carl Gustov Jung (Allah bless his soul)

I love God. And my faith in him grows ever stronger!

Poor Becky.

I think it was sarcasm on BNW's part. Knowing nothing about Jung, as it were. Guessing, but from the read of sarcasm, that's my personal take on it.

It means nothing to discredit Jung, in fact it is in keeping with his postulations on the collective unconscious. A shared "undermind" that connects everything and everyone. So myths related to god, would just be part of that relative harmonic. No more, no less.
I just love that a christian blesses a dead Swiss in the name of the muslims god. Yahweh would be so proud....mad, calling it blasphemy and wanting him dead.

GW ASKED me to contribute... so i did... but if she can post BLATENTLY false information...

regardless if you agree with it or not... lol...

just like the other thread... the guy basically said "i made this up" and people still thought it was legit... lol

i thought the whole point of debate was for each side to provide information they believe to be true and proves their point... but when people start posting links to information that admits to being made up or that is BLATENTLY false... on purpose... what standard do we hold that to? is it considered bashing, flaming, etc?

I love this site. I visit here on bad weather days when it's nothing to do but read to my wittle hearts content. THE
HISTORY OF THE DEVIL AND THE IDEA OF EVIL FROM THE EARLIEST TIMES TO THE PRESENT DAY


link fix edit

Thanks for the link GW. Also, for those of you against this subject, could you please post your sources (biblical passages even) instead of just complaining. It would serve a much better purpose to those who are undecided or uneducated about the subject so they can form an educated opinion instead of learning nothing from angry rants.

like I posted elsewhere -

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version):
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things

Proverbs 16
16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

1 Samuel
16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.


everything happens for a reason (gods plan) hence even what humans deem as evil does. only god can see that big puzzle gods putting togeather. it makes sense to god. humanly however it can stink. But god isn't human nor with human limitations like anger , judging ect ....and we have no clue. man made that up to keep people in line by scaring them.

thanks for the link to that site Goddess - looks interesting .

i did.

You're most welcome. I love the site. Every possible subject in philosophy, comparative religion, etc... I think it would take months to read it all. And as they update quite regularly, that's probably optimistic of me to say so.

1 Chronicles 21
David Numbers the Fighting Men
1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.


god and satan make a bet ?


6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [b] also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

* what's funny is god has no clue where satan had been.

9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

Et non mirum ipse enim Satanas transfigurat se in angelum lucis
2 Corinthians 11:14. And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.

Revelations 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour


Ephesians 4:26-27 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil.

God created both good and evil....satan is just one of his creations....

You are correct satan IS God's angel, and doesn't oppose GOD, no angel is dumb enough to do that, he opposes HUMANITY. He is prince of accusing angels, he accuses mankind before God. Where Christians got the idea that he opposes God is truely beyond me.

Btw i totally agree with you BM.
Why bother wasting your time on threads that don't worth your time. Contradicting huh.

No one can ever provide absolute proof of god's doings.
So it can be right and wrong in different perspective.
And this is a discussion forum to discuss not debate.
Do you need to read the rules over again.

Anyway, i think Satan's rebeling and stuffs like that is all God's doings ?
Since hes all knowing, he would have expected this outcome. But didn't want to put a stop to it. He is not evil, but he created evil. Its like saying I'm not a murderer, but i hire a hitman to kill someone, does that make me guility ?

Just my 2cents, i'm open to discussion.

You might figure: Hell must be overcrowded with it's "primitive" Gods or Angels created the same as a more modern God or Angel-- CHRIST. So until a new Anti-Christ is sent to rule our new Hell[or Heaven], why wouldn't everyone believe Christ was created and sent to rule Heaven [or Hell] and Earth until a new one is sent? Or it's refered only as "God" or the "Devil" no matter who was sent to rule two sides of morality...

Forgive me Bumhawk, but I'm not quite sure what you're saying and I very much want to understand. Could you perhaps rephrase your observation? I apologize for the inconvenience, but as I said, I do want to understand your input in this matter.