i just read a bit about scientology(thethans, etc) and i was wondering, is this for real? does anyone believe this stuff? i am very very tolerant when it comes to religions, but this stories are just plain weird and most importantly THE MAN WHO CREATED THE RELIGION WAS A SCIENCE FICTION AUTHOR....DUUUUH, please i dont mean to ridicule any religion, i would just like it if someone who follows scientology would please explain to me why you believe this, ive asked christians, budhists, wiccans and many others to explain to me why the believe in their religions, but since i dont know anyone who follows scientology, please explain it to me

I'm not sure about the religion myself. I don't even know what they believe in. So maybe someone else can tell you. I'm interested in what they believe in.

Uhm you if you didnt mean to ridicule it, even though you did, then first you need to get a grasp on yourself. If you dont mean to ridicule something then dont, dont ridicule it and then say you didnt mean to. If you mean to ridicule it then do it but leave the innocent thing out of it.

Do it or dont do it but dont be a flip flopper, it makes you appear as though you lack any control of yourself and probably in turn your life... and I mean exactly what I say.

One question, do you honestly believe that an ever growing list of clearly intelligent and talented people would join a nutty cult if they saw no benefits from it? It has its benefits like all other religions and the lack of religion because everyone involved with or without religion has a brain and the brain only needs to be told what to do, some people need an external "boss" telling them what to do, others dont and are their own "boss". The pitfall of religion of course being when you allow this "boss" to tell you to do things that you really dont want to do, like giving away all your money, because you forget you chose this "boss" and forgot who the real boss is.

PS HAIL XENU!!

Scientology evolved from a bet between L. Ron and a few contemporaries in the Sci-Fi realm, to gage the gullibility factor of the average human. Hubbard had formerly been paid pennies per word, for his work and made a quip to another author of his caliber, who's name escapes me at the moment, (I'll edit that when it comes to me) , that if one wanted to live forever, all one need do is create a religion. So it then turned to a wager and Scientology was born. Scientology is now so named because it's first title, "Dianetics" sounded like a diet plan. If you've ever read the book by that title, after you go you may come to realize it was a book compiled by numerous others lending their input into what became one of the NY Times longest run Best Sellers. Basically, Scientology believes humans evolved from......clams. And the evil galactic warlord Xenu , well read for yourself.

The Secrets of Scientology

Source (*Point of note: The Church of Scientology maintains the quote was misconstrued, that it was George Orwell that said it. However, this was never affirmed by LRH. )

Psst, GW... Assamov

after reading GWs post i think they are all nuts... how could one who knew there was a "bet" on creating a religion join that religion and see it as truth... they have to be messed in the head and all scientologist are nuts.

Because it benefits their lives. Meaning any religion no matter how "nuts" can be a benefit to people's lives... meaning no matter how nuts, retarded or cult-like a religion is it will still work for its followers.... meaning there doesnt need to be a real God or a sane dogma for a religion to "work".

A religion can be founded on a bet, some God-man or the desire for humans to become primates, it matters not they will all work if there is a follower to that religion and that follower has a brain that believes in it.

Scientology proves to me that 1- any religion will work if you believe it will 2- humans will believe in any religion if it works 3- all religions could hypothetically be founded on a bet by sci-fi authors or divine inspiration by prophets and will work and people will believe in them, making them a real religion.

I love Scientology like I love cancer.... in my enemy.

Hail Xenu!! Free Katie Holmes!!

Although my opinion on them is most likely similar to everyone elses, I try to respect their beliefs and not judge them for the crazy person that they may be .

Visit http://www.clambake.org for testamonials from former members of Scientology, some very high level Scios.

There's a difference between a religion and a cult... Scientology is a cult that practices mind control and brainwashing while emptying your wallet of every asset you have. If you don't have the means to pay for their auditing (which is essential to "salvation") then they suck you into their organization forcing you to do their bidding to pay for their church services. You sign lifetime contract with them (or a Million year contract) to essentially give your life over them and everything you have... IF you can't pay for your salvation out of your pocket. That's not a religion, that's a cult. If you escape before fulfilling your million year contract, the church leaders will sue you for all the auditing and training materials you used after signing the contract. Remember you're serving for a million years in lieu of paying for your Salvation.

I don't blame the people who get into or are in Scientology, I blame the money grubbing leadership. There is no such thing as freewill in Scientology.

I know very little about scientology...but I'd say that the only thing that separates a 'cult' from a 'religion' is numbers. All religions have to start somewhere, and at their beginning they perhaps all start as cults...that either grow or fade away. (or remain insignificant).

So you're for or against Scientology?

Personally, I don't believe in Scientology, but I do believe that it has good values, but then again what religion doesn't? But to say that Scientology is a religion and then make up (and I mean make up) a story of how humans came to be is way too over the top. Let's face it, Hubbard was a nobody. He wrote science fiction but his works never became popular before Dianetics, and he was shamed from his military service. Basically, Dianetics was all he had. So this was probably the only way he felt he could be remembered forever.

Besides, if his story is true, then why would this real history of the world come to him of all people, not somebody important who was well respected enough to spread this truth and make an actual impact on other religions? No, L. Ron was just abused the one popular book he'd written for all it was worth. He was at the end of his options. He was a loser, that's why he was so desperate in creating something people would follow.

YES! Miss Mells found the site I've been looking for! Clambake is always for a good laugh!


(ps.. when you comming back into the chat =(? )

I'm joining Heaven's Gate.

It's not a religion, it's a cult: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD9bCdHqU3s

Both.



Awesome, good luck to you! I was a member but I missed the ride

Have you considered Raelianism? I'm awaiting membership.

May I lend you a roll of quarters?

Hurry, there's still time! Yes, there's one left and he has something to say. (Aliens are real, comets burn hot, black is not his color (The shrouds the dead were covered in) and he has no balls! ) Heavens Gate

Watch the episode of south park that is about scientology. Very enlighning....and funny

*Spits coffee all over monitor* WHAT!!! *grabs Nikes, Phenobarbital and vodka*

You shall be missed. ~lifts black hooded robe~ You forgot something. Can't board the EwwFo nekid! Ok, you can, but that would make you odd.

Edit to add: Mission impossible?

Scientology Vs. South Park


Not really! Oh no, they Xenu'd Kenny! http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/south_p...playVideo=25390

Just wanted to say your link isn't working. BTW, mission impossible has tom cruise in it. So does your avatar. lol its pretty funny.

I know TC is in MI. It was a play on words. And I fixed the link and added one to.
"Tom it's time to come out of the closet!"

Noooo kidding! Gaydar. Some of us have known he's been in there for a very long time.

Thanks for the link, man that was a long video.

Anyway, IMO, scientology is a little....I don't know the appropriate word so I'll just say wierd. I don't see why john travolta or tom cruise would be scientologists. I feel bad for them. For those of us who don' speak your language, WTF is Gardar?

Gaydar is a term originated by the great and powerful super-unnatural pink triangle nota-god. It refers to what people believe gays possess as an ability to spot gay people in a crowd. Not unlike Radar that can detect unseen objects in the sky.

(note tongue firmly planted in cheek) However, it is a term that is used, seriously, for just such an ability. I don't know where it came from, but I do know TC is gay. Katie is his contract wife, made first his contract gf (girlfriend), after he was caught in bed with Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20, by his wife! Wife promptly divorced RT and Toms crew went into closet mode, to find single TC a woman. One of those crew members remembered Katie Holmes had been interviewed months before, by Seventeen Magazine, wherein she said as a girl she had had an enormous crush on Mr. Cruise.

Tom's people contacted Katie's people and a meeting was struck. Then a deal was struck. Then the dating began, then the pregnancy, then the marriage. TC has been married twice. He's divorced his first wife at just before the 10 year mark, except when he tried that with Nicole he miscalculated and it was year 11. The reason he does this is because, under California law, marriages that last 10 years and then end in divorce may entitle a wife to lifelong spousal support and as much as half of a spouses net worth. This is also why, Katie Holmes being catholic, they were prohibited from marrying in the catholic church.
There is said to be a rider on the contract he has with Katie H. , that they may extend the agreement past year 10, if both parties are amicable.


It's also about the image. There's a video of TC and KH backstage at a Marc Anthony concert. Unbeknownst to both parties, someone was filming them. But when TC saw the camera he whispers to Katie who then looks and sees the filming going on. They immediately turn into the touchy feely couple, and Tom tries to dance. (That's ugly. ) But before that one can see she's not really that thrilled to be there and Tom keeps trying to touch her to seemingly get her attention. But as soon as they see the camera's , it all changes. That's because one of the clauses in their contract is they must set or appear to engage in the appearance of a happy and doting couple, at all times while in view of the general fan public. Image, is everything.

I can't find the video , except on Youtube. And there they're already in the touchy smiley mode. But the original shows something entirely different. Bizarre, in fact. Oh, TC's people claim the Rob Thomas story is rumor. However, it is not. Rob immediately found a new woman, married her and got her pregnant first, while Tom was still in the Katie gf stage. His wife was precluded, as terms of the divorce, from ever speaking about the incident in public. (Not unusual for that lifestyle actually. Mark Anthony, in a divorce with his last wife and before marriage to Jennifer Lopez, had his wife sign a non-disclosure agreement. She is precluded form ever saying anything about him or their marriage, under penalty of 10 thousand dollar fine, for each offense. No, I'm not kidding. Nicole Kidman signed a similar agreement, sans the fine, in her divorce of Tom Cruise) See, image being everything is one thing. However, TC sued tabloids in Great Britain some years ago, when a gay lover witness spilled the beans on Mr. Mission Impossible (I'm straight) . He won the suit, under the charge of slander and defamation of character. His lover declined to restate the facts or help the tabloid fight in court. Ah, money! Money , money, moooney!

In the event it is ever proven, or Mr. Cruise admits he's gay, (Not possible, in this lifetime) , he may be held responsible for perjuring himself in the suits in GB. Which means not only would his reputation be out of the closet, but he would also be liable for the money he was awarded (he also gained retractions in those publications), in the suits.

It's definitely lost me the respect of John Travolta...I used to like him too

I'm more of The Peoples Temple type of person . Minus the mass murder of course .

Oh I know Clambake.org well. I have a friend whose life was damn near ruined by scientology (I won't give her name, but her testimonial is at Clambake). She was so brainwashed, at the bidding of her "church" she gave her kids up into what could only be described as slavery. It's BAD, it's a cult started by a pulp science fiction writer. LRH was a sicko.

I want to believe the science fiction I read is real, too. But Scientologists take it too far. Lol jokes' on them.

The same in any religion.

Scientologists just believe in galactic space aliens while everybody else believes in a two thousand year old ghost carpenter who lives in the clouds.

Cmon but he is still a good actor, at least I think.

1) I think you just called my gaydar, which I sure am not.

2) When did this thread become about Tom cruise being gay? Though if he is gay, I wouldn't be that surprised.
Thank you for explaining that. Very enlightning, I guess.

3) Can we get off tom cruise now?

If you're going to look at Scientology and make a judgement call, you have to look at it from the common man experience, NOT the Celebrity expereince. There is a type of Scientology that's just for celebrities (see the Scientology Celebrity Center) and it's quite different from the common mans experience.

You won't see Tom and Katie giving their little bean up to the SeaOrg in Clearwater Florida for school and everlasting servitude and slavery. You won't see little Suri wearing a uniform, living in a disgusting hotel dorm, and working 12 hours a day when she's 11 years old, filing, cleaning and answering phones and doing financial spreadsheets. This is the common man experience with Scientology when they get in deep enough to sign their million year contract.

Not to mention, I think TC is crazy because he's spent thousands and thousands of hours hooked up to electrodes (e-meters for auditing), pumping a small current through his body combined with an overload of certain vitamins, which make no mistake can be dangerous. This cannot be good for your body or your brain.

I've heard some rather bad tales of people having to cut off their families and friends because they refuse the glorious message that Scientology offers. It's the individual's choice to join though and if it makes them happy it makes them happy.

It doesn't make their unusual practices immune to jest, however.

I am careful about the movies and music I buy retail.

How exactly did you get this information? Family friends, or have you just read up on it?



Yeah it makes them happy, it makes me wonder. BTW you don't happen to know the glorious message do you? lol

Nah, I have my own glorious message that I'm quite happy with.

I'm not sure if we are the thetans or if thetans cause suffering.

I have a friend that was trapped for 15 years in SeaOrg and she had an extremely hard time getting out of it. She lost her kids in the process and they're still with their father in Florida (or sort of, he rarely sees the kids, just like she didn't when she was "in"). She's been waging a court battle every time he denies her visitation. I beleive the last time she was able to see her kids was about a year ago.

Yes, they practice shunning (as do a handful of Christian denominations, I won't deny that), but worse, they hassle ex-members (or squirrles) with pointless law suits, spying, badgering and outing. They have in the past anonomously sent her confidential files from her Auditing sessions to her aquaintances, employers, and business associates. She's a Chiropractor (she gave up her rather successful practice after signing her Million Year Contract). I was sent her files once, but thankfully knew what she was going through... It freaks me out that they apparently had her client list from her newly reformed practice--that would have been the only way they could have associated me with her. Once I saw the Clearwater postage mark I gave her the big thick manilla envelope without opening it. A couple of her other clients had received it as well and did open it.

It's SO bad-news.

I'm sorry to hear that.

The part I quoted above really seems similar to the way muslims are treated when they abandon their faith. Anyway it's wrong.

If what you say is true about SeaOrg they are in violation of child labor laws and should be investigated by Children and Families.
As far as Electric Tom, a fool and his money are soon parted. If an adult wants to walk into something like this and let them take their money so be it, but when you involve children that is just wrong no matter whether it is a cult or a so called religion. Children should be free to choose their own path.

Edited to add link.
Read this little diddie about Sea Org.
http://www.xenutv.com/interviews/astra-seaorg.htm

Wait a minute didn't tom recently force katie to convert to scientology?

Yes, and they are investigated quiet frequently by CFS, you can find a number of the cases on Findlaw and other places around the Web. The problem comes from the fact that they are a "religion" and putting little kids to work is part of the "faith".

Here's an article written by L. Ron Hubbard on the subject. It sounds "ok" when you read it, but keep reading because I'm also going to post the personal testimony of a 14 year old girl who worked at the SeaOrg offices in Clearwater and California. Her testimony is exactly like dozens upon dozens of other children who are subjected to the Cadet Sea Organization (verified by my friend who lived there for 15 years and knew Astra):

L. Ron Hubbard:
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH14_3.HTM

Astra Woodcraft:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...12/MN171898.DTL

Here's another skewed article by Scientology about their hatred for CFS/CPS:
http://www.scientology.org/en_US/news-medi...ety/060503.html

It would be worth mentioning that this is the San Francisco Gate story of Astra which is quite watered down. There are more explicit Affidavits by her (and many others) to be found elsewhere on the Web.

That's between you and Tom and it's none of my business. I don't even want to know.

Yeah I love tom you got a problem with it? lol jk but anyway its funny because im the one that said we should stop talking about tom cruise, yet im the one who keeps bringing him up. Sorry about that. Back on topic. So ashamed.

That's funny....sarcastic...but funny.

When is a cult not a cult.....when it's called a religion. It's a numbers game...biggest wins. Correct me if I'm wrong..but I think the muslims are winning.

You asked about gaydar. I told you what gaydar refers to. I did not call you gaydar. I used TC as an example of what gaydar can dar in on. And I figured, with an Avatar like mine, it was fitting and very OT. Long winded as hell and nearly periodical length I grant ya, but still. You can now never say you never heard TC was gaydared!

Mooooving onnnnn Xeennnuuuuu

The more I read about this the more disgusted I am, seriously. Disgusting >0

Funny, so do they.

It's not about winning.


Ok, where have I read that before?

I agree, the term "cult" is dicey and everyone seems to have their own definition of what a cult is and isn't.

If you're going to look at the word in the classic way (pop culture aside) the term Cult can really only be applied to Christians and Christian off-shoots. There are denominations, sects, schisms and cults. Traditionally speaking (and I'm not trying to be poopy here, I"m speaking from a historical standpoint) Mormon, JW's and Unificationists (aka Moonies) and some Unitarians have been considered "cults"--they are all Christian groups. Why are they classically considered cults? Because they deviate from the standard doctrine and dogma. There are other groups like my own that are considered "sects" because they simply don't care about dogma, doctrine and creeds but aren't necessarily in violation of them either.

The popular definition today in pop culture is in reference to any group that has a charismatic leader, they believe they are above the law, they preach that their way is the ONLY way to salvation, they isolate their group members, they take control of their finances, the leaders of these organizations are usually EXEMPT from the cults "laws and practices" . This term is usually applied to groups like Heaven Gate, Branch Dividians, Scientologists, white sparatists movements, some yogaic practices, yes, perhaps even groups like Opus Dei. They tend to be groups that cut their members off from all outside contacts with the world and practice shunning toward former members and non-believers of their dogma and doctrines. In theory they are groups that cause social, psychological, financial, and physical damage or ruin to their followers.

Cult is really a goofball word that can be applied toward any group you don't like, however, I think it's a word that is well applied toward any screwball group that takes extreme advantage of their followers.

I wonder if a scientologist can be a scientist or if a scientist can be a scientologist or if a scientologist scientist considers himself first and foremost a scientist or a scientologist?

Obviously this statement is senseless. Hence scientology.

Reading what you wrote makes me think....why are they called scientologists when their leader was a science fiction writer?



Thank you for explaining...even though it was almost the wierdest word ive heard in long time...and i mean long.

Really? Then I'm glad I could introduce you to a word that has been around for quite awhile. It's a tongue in cheek kind of reference initially, but you know how things can evolve into being taken serious and as a threat. So there are always retorts to it by phobic types. Like; hell, I hope I'm flying under the gaydar tonight. Referencing how one is dressed, looking sexy, as a straight. But as a nervous straight.

In fact there are over 843 thousand results that pop on Yahoo, if you keyword.