We have heard many claims of astral projection. But the thought behind astral projection is that you are linked to you body by a metaphorical "silver chord". It would naturally be assumed that when one dies, this chord, if it exists or if AP exists, would be broken once one dies. Is it our fate that our bodies are just the form of transportation for the mind? That when the body dies, the mind lives on? If so could it not be that astral projectors are not able to see other astral projectors while on the same plane because their silver chord disallows them to? If so, this could mean that when someone dies, the enter a new plane, the plane of what we know of as the subconcious. Rather than the subconcious belonging to one person, perhaps we all share the same subconcious and all our thoughts are on this plane, but only we and we alone can access these specific thoughts, assigned through us and unlocked through learning? And when we die, perhaps we continue on wandering on this realm, and advanced version of our current realm, still seeking answers, still gaining knowledge from some other source. If this was what will be left of the world when I die, I wouldn't be unsatisfied.

I *think* that when we die we enter a plain spiritually, in the spiritual sense. But, in AP, I wonder if it's only in the Psyche sense, and not spiritual at all.

But what is the difference between the supposed spiritual and psyche? Are these not products of our subconcious?

I would think so. NDE is claimed to be a result of brain suffocation. As each center strives to survive, it fires what it has left in an effort to sort of kick start the rest of the body that's shutting down. Self-Preservation, as it were. But when that fails, it's said the centers and those bursts release memories in the subconscious and the conscious as it recedes, into that, and so all these distant images we don't recall now, like the womb, birth, first life in the outside world experiences, blur in what's our dying awareness. Because if it's near death , that means we're father from this consciousness of life, so that we see things near death means we're still subjectively discriminating when we see mom, uncle Ralph, or our puppy, Kipples, that we had when we were one.

And along with that, is said to be the affinity we have for our faith systems. Because when we read our bibles, koran, and the like, when we hear the stories of supernatural deific powers , and attach ourselves to them, we get pictures to make that personal. Whether it's the bonding we make with other peoples created images in books, prints, and the like, or whether it's how we imagine them to look, as someone reads us our first bedtime story, of their likeness. So that to mixes in that release of conscious recall. The memory centers of the brain, as well as the sensory, fire to keep us attached to living. That's why it's said we think we're coming near death, seeing everything including religious imagery that we've formed a subjective attachment to. The brains also dying as it tries to fire itself back to life, so it's literally releasing us from every attachment to this world, even the memory of what it meant to be here.


That doesn't necessarily make it what's really waiting there. When we're dead. It just means if we have someone we know that's died, we're now exactly like them. Doesn't mean we'll see them again. Just means they went there. I think it is much like unto astral travel in that respect, of leaving the body, but even in astral travel there are experiences within a frame of what we subjectively identify with, or are disposed to accepting is within the realm of possibility, going in. I think if it was full on like astral travel, re. the umbilicus or astral cord that bonds one to their mortal coil as they venture out, it would be far more than we could handle in this conservative mortal intelligence. So that's why I think we're comfortable believing in an after life, even those that have seemingly been near it, taking all those pictures and conscious sensations on the ride, that if we did actually learn what is the opposite of life, we would have to be dead. We could never handle the awesome impact of not being, at worst. Or being something we can never know or imagine, at best. So we're comfortable thinking we have faith we can believe while it matters now. Because nows what scares us, thinking about what we don't see later.

But then how does this go with people being able to see what is going on whilst they are in a coma or in a NDE. This is what I refer to as astral projection. There have been accounts where the unconcious are able to see what his happening to them and wake up knowing what others where doing while that person was in a death-like state.

I think that would relate to that previously mentioned astral cord or umbilicus analogy. If you've astral traveled, or if you've read anything about it, I think you'll find a reference to the spirit or consciousness, as it were, tethering to the mortal host, as it enters one aspect of the universal consciousness.

So, maybe, in NDE while the body is dying in parts, as each somatic organ system fails, the body dies and that consciousness recedes in an awareness of that room it's in but since one is still tethered to the body, they still are subjectively attuned to everything that is the room. Lifting off, as it were, and yet still tethered to awareness, just before oblivion.

I'm Atheist, so I don't believe in a soul. However, I do believe in what I hold as a base understanding of physics and energies, and if all things are energy I think what invigorates us, as much as a Oak tree or penguin, is what we return to, when we die. That could appear as oblivion, that could mean one is one finite aspect of a molecule in a solar flair, but while we're still aware, even lifting out , as I've heard it called, during operations or extreme trauma, all of our discriminations about the event, are still part of being human. And I think it's from there we imagine we know what's happening in all that.When real death, not near death, can never be known.

I've read of people saying, when they have a NDE , they return without fear of an after life, where they had one before. Some relinquish religion, because what they experienced they believe was to immense to fit inside a sectarian frame. I think what ever one learns from the experience, is all part of what medical science understands of brain death. And while it may be argued we don't know the source of consciousness, we do know what it means to be conscious as far as we know an awareness of a state of being. And when that organ that tells us what exists exists just so, is dying, I think it's releasing everything the conscious link keeps it's subjective focus, and the unconscious records the experience, like it's suppose to, even when we can't remember, or we think we're not paying attention, when not in the throes of an NDE, our subconscious records everything according to our discriminations in emotion, visual, auditory and tactile cues. Indiscriminately. If we feel it the subconscious records it as genuine and real and the body reacts accordingly.

That's why, it is said we'll cry when we hear a song in our 20's, that reckons us back to something sad in our childhood. Or we'll smile at the scent of a perfume on the wind, and get a picture of a memory attributed to that scent. It's all a matter of recollection, our reactions and affinity for what we hold as true right now. And when the brain dies, they say it's all that data, sort of speak, churning in the mind that's dying in parts and firing all the memories together. I get a picture of everything we've ever known running in a flurry to other rooms of a house, as former rooms seem to crumble into shadow. Trying to find refuge, and yet providing a recall, of what we're leaving behind. Because they say thoughts are vibrations also. Just like all that exists is made of energy that moves constantly to a rhythm, so to is thought a resonance.

This is what is said to be present in what people call faith healing. A resonance. A state of mind. A focus of thought to create and become.

Well put. You've seemed to wrapped things up in a nice little package. Anyway, I have no concern of what happens after death, it'll happen anyway, so I might as well be surprised to see what happens rather than know.

This may seem a little weird but, could death be death?

Well it could, but that's not very appealing is it.

Anyway, what ever death is, IMO it's nothing like astral projection. If death is full astral projection, then I think astral projectors go half dead for hours.

Does death have to be appealing? Can we just accept that it may be the end, without having to make it palatable?

I can handle that to. Being dead, it's not like I'll have a choice or even hold regret. Win win!

N...no. That's too much to handle. Look away I'm about to cry Other than that, death sounds pretty good. When they put me under, maybe I can finally get some freakin quiet.

Death is not the end. How can our mind decompose with our bodies? Is the mind physical or an energy. If it is energy, then how can it decompose into matter. The body is what dies in death, but who's to say the mind does, or who's to say what the mind is.

And yet it may be said, from what ever one draws comfort in believing there to be something after life, that source for that level of comfort from the knowledge, is still formulated in the brain we know decomposes after death. So thinking something leaves it to live on, is still a thought in what is essentially, a dying vessel.
Theory, faith, hope. All hold one thing in common.They all try to ascertain what it means to exist, but they don't have any evidence of where we go when we cease to as something other than this organic body.


I think that's why I'm ok with ceasing to exist eternally. If that's it, what can I say!?

I second that. It's not not you'd care, you don't exist!

Well this has been depressing...for me.