a comparison of two religions...
i dreamed this entire post last night... lol... so i figured i'd post it...

Disclaimer: when i use the word EVOLUTION, i'm talking about the specific part of the theory that one species (ex. hippo) will turn into a completely different species (ex. whale)
the word CREATIONISTS refers to Christians in a broad sense...
sorry for leaving everyone else out... too much ground to cover

In The Beginning

Creationists
believe that God is eternal and always existed... no one knows how are where He came from...

Evolutionists
believe this was random chance started by an infinitely dense speck of space dust/singularity/cosmic egg...
no one knows where it came from or how it came to exist....

Origins of Life

Creationists
God created every thing and gave it life...
the evidence used is the fact that we exist...

Evolutionists
believe life beginwith Abiogenesis - the theory that non living matter gave rise to living matter, but only once...
the evidence used is that fact that we exist

The Rise of Man

Creationists
God formed man from the clay and breathed life into his body...
no evidence for it...

Evolutionists
believe man slowly evolved from lower species until we came to be what we are now...
lacking fossil record and observation... so there is no evidence for it (ideas and theories don't count as evidence)

Faith Based Belief System

Creationists
base their faith on the Bible...
various stories and experience written in 66 books/letter by at least 40 people over thousands of years

Evolutionists
originally based their belief on an idea of a single person before any "evidence came in"

The Evidence For Both Sides

Creationists
base their belief on what they observe in nature... nature itself is the evidence for a creator
evolutionists argue that observation of nature is not proof

Evolutionists
base their beliefs on the observation of Charles Darwin who came to his conclusion by observing nature
evolutionists argue that this is science and is evidence of evolution...

Personal Comment
i wanted to comment on the section directly above...
why is it considered science for Darwin and not for Christians?
it can't work both ways... either it's science or not...
either Darwin went about it scientifically... which would make the Christian observation also scientific..
if not... then Darwin wasn't using science but faith... which would mean science founded evolution on faith...

Missionaries

Creationists
try to convince people of the THEORY that God created everything...
methods: t.v., radio, tracts, newsletters, websites, email, etc...

evidence to date: nothing... just a bunch of ideas and opinions

Evolutionists
try to convince people of the THEORY that one animal can turn into a completely different animal given enough time
methods: t.v., radio, tracts, newsletters, websites, email, etc...

evidence to date: nothing... just a bunch of ideas and opinions

Conclusion

i honestly don't see one single difference in what makes EVOLUTION an actual science vs. it being a religion...
according to scientists Darwin based his theory on observation which is science...
so the Christian observation that God exists IS ALSO a science...

if Christian observation is not considered science
then that means Darwin took a leap of faith when he came up with the theory of evolution... (i repeated the above in case anyone forgot)

so the question is... what makes EVOLUTION (remember the disclaimer) a science?
is it simply the fact that someone decided to say... "this is science because we said so?"
is it because scientists study what they have in order to persue a BELIEF that they THINK to be true?
Christians also study what they have in order to persue a BELIEF that we THINK to be true... so why isn't that considered science?

i'm just asking everyone for their opinions to those 4 questions... this is not to prove one or the other false...
no posting of articles... just your OWN OPINION about the questions...

Provide Links If You Have Them

Evolutionists
1) the fossils cannot be drawn/painted/illustrated in anyway... must be actual photos...
2) if the link you provide contains known hoaxes... please acknowledge it when you post it...
3) the fossils should show an example of this: hippo, stage after hippo... and so on until you reach a whale... (feel free to pick any species you want)
4) New findings in the DNA code
5) please DO NOT provide links to fossils that are the same type of animal... (ex. multiple Trilobyte fossils... they are ALL still Trilobytes)
6) please do not post links to OPINIONS or THEORIES... please only post actual findings

Creationists
1) examples of animals that defy evolutionary theory (ex. incubator bird or platypus)
2) examples of fossil hoaxes that have been PROVEN... not just suspected (ex. Nebraska Man or Piltdown man)
3) New findings in the DNA code
4) please do not posts OPINIONS or THEORIES or SERMONS or BIBLE STUDIES... please only post actual findings...

The Goal

1) we all participate in gathering the evidence for each side (TRUE science)
2) we all provide feedback on the evidence provided and show how it supports or doesn't support your side
3) if you comment on someone else post... please no INSULTS aimed at the individual (UM rules anyway)
4) please state what significance your post has to your religion/science

since both sides will be skeptics and religon... i put this thread in this section...
so if you want to participate... bring it...
hopefully EVERYONE from BOTH sides will view the information provided and learn something...
if we post actual findings instead of opinions... maybe we can all expand our frame of reference and truly understand both sides of the coin...
which IMO is vastly more productive than throwing insults and questionable opinions...

sigh...is this just a set up against those you call atheists that are closed minded?? thaphantum when are you going to stop this trolling??

You know fine well evolution is a theory..not fact..........just in the same way you know the bible is just theory and not fact..neither can be proved...

phantum,

This has been done to death in your 'Put up or Shut up' thread.

The evolutionist's put up and if you don't want to believe the evidence provided that's your prerogative, so perhaps you should take your example from the second part of your previous thread title.

Madam, I bow to your wisdom!

thanks

but Leo is right..it's been done to death...but I see this is just another excuse to keep up the taunts...I read thaphantums insults to atheists in a similar thread and WOW here we go again....get ready..cuz the sec anyone does not agree with the bible..BOOM!!!!

I am glad that other christian dont drag things out like this trolling....but thaphantum aint no other christian he is just HIMSELF!!!

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...2730&st=180 <--right in there..insult after insult at atheists...telling them they are closed minded and to grow a brain....and now he clones a thread to keep it all going

I have quitely observed several threads that he has participated in and have come to the conclusion that either he is the most benighted Christian I have ever seen or he is actually an atheist spoofing fundamentalists --- LOL

I dunno...but I know there are fundys on this board who DO NOT go to extreme measures like he has...........not once have I seen a christian make threads like put up or shut up...& $1000 to the atheist who can disprove god <--WTF?? I mean that is clearly trolling..........it goes on...

the latest is calling atheists closed minded ...telling one to go grow a brain...look im smerter than you...when I read these silly lil comments..i asked myself is this a child??


Now how on earth can ANYONE prove evolution..or the bible....HOW IS IT POSSIBLE??

What is pointless again?? I forget??

You're not going to convince any atheists that creation is true and evolution is false the way you're going about it. They're not stupid you know. They look into things. They want proof. You can't provide any.

I don't know why you started another evolution verses creation thread when there are already two going. You're beating this subject to death.

Thephatum, got tired of your other six threads based on virtually the same subject?

Yawn... you see, I type yawn because otherwise you'd just not get it.

you might want to re read my post... i'm just asking both sides to present the ACTUAL evidence that exists and lets look at it...

or is there something either side has to hide?

i'm surprised you didn't point out the insults that were thrown at us Christians on the same thread...

How is it trolling? He is bringing up a good healthy debate for both sides to think about.

Umm you are speaking to thaphantum and you quote..............ME LMAO...cuz I am not trying to convince anyone or anything...

I saw yours they stood out like a sore thumb..there was no call for them..and then here you are all ready waiting on them again

No other christian goes as far as you do...its unreal...high time you knocked it on the head....telling people to go and grow a brain..and atheists are closed minded is NOT making you look smart


Now if the thread continues...i'll see and whats the bet you wont jump on someone for giving their views on evolution??


How many more evolution threads do we need??

that's interesting that you worry about the anti evolution threads i post... but you play kiss a** to GW and Sherri whenever they post an anti God/ anti Christian thread...
as long as it's anti God/religion/Jesus... everyone is ok with it... but if someone posts an anti evolution thread... then out comes the ...
so as long as those keep getting posted... i'll post my point of view also... regardless of what you are anyone else thinks about it...

you don't see me and the other Christians whining... "this anti God thing has been done to death"
i'm failing to see any of your points... get over it... plain and simple...

you all know exactly what my profile says to the left of this post... but for some reason... those that don't like it... keep reading it...

If this were his first thread on the same subject, it would be a good healthy debate...but this is one of many threads he has started on the same subject, that is called trolling or beading a dead horse, your choice...

What can either two sides HIDE??

BOTH are IMPOSSIBLE to prove as fact

gee you said so yourself

So what can one hide??

The bible explains creation in a few pages....evolution explains itself in..goodness knows how many different articals...but BOTH are in fact theories...what else can anyone say to show something new??

Are you expecting some christian to bring up NEW evidence from the bible??
Are you expecting someone else to drag up more evidence from science??

WHAT??

Thanks Mako...I was going to remind him...he has dragged this evolution/creation thing too far...

atheists tell Christians all the time that they are closed minded... so does that make them not look smart too?
i can give you a list of everyone that has told a Christian on UM that they are closed minded because they don't believe in evolution BS...

oh and the person i told to grow a brain.. was a person that only agrees with anti Christian posts... even when GW, myself, and others have pointed out that the post was extemely false... she only agreed because the post was anti God...

evolutionists jump on us for our opinion all the time... so why is it wrong if we do it?
how many anti God/Christian/Jesus threads to do we need??

Admin
moderators

can we not just merge this thread with mako's? or any other that deals with the same subject? or just close it???
dont think its going to break any new ground.

Exactly.

And it is also boring.

yet, all of you still clicked on it...

Some athiests. Some evolutionists.



You won't find me on that list.

so we can tell you that it's been done to death.

I'll click on anything...

What has Sheri and GW got to do with you firing non stop insults?? linked to those that follow evolution ?? WHAT??

I cant recall the last time a christian went out of their way to make trouble..by one thread after another with the SAME CONTENT..to take a pop at anyone.................JUST YOU...

I havent seen any other christian throw INSULTS like you have

I certainly havent seen them tell people to go and grow a brain..just cuz they dont follow a bible wtf?? <---you did this..for what?

How many evolution linked thread must you make??

how many times are you going to insult atheists by offering them money to disprove your belief??

Whats next??

Like Shadow Hill, I will click on anything...after all I am a forum 'ho!

This is one of my first few posts here at UM. I'm also a member of IMDB.com's forums and they have these types of threads on movie forums like The Da Vinci Code, Evolution (the movie), Passion of the Christ, etc...

I've noticed that most of the time, these threads are started because people just want to see other people agree with them. IE. Evolutionist start pro-evolution threads to hear other evolutionist agree with each other, and then they tend to gang up on anyone who objects. I've noticed the same with creationists on about the same level. It gets quite interesting to read what some people write.

Anyways, nothing ever gets resolved on these thread and people lose interest after a while, until the next time someone starts a similar thread.

Anyways, that's all I really wanted to say.

I agree with that.

What an interesting start.

You defined EVOLUTION but not CREATIONISM, CREATIONISTS but not EVOLUTIONISTS.

So how can you generalize EVOLUTIONIST beliefs if you haven't defined who evolutionists are, and since you have already defined what EVOLUTION is?

You basically contradicted yourself in every paragraph after you made your initial statement. lol

ha ha true

I wish this point were discussed more in debates on evolution and creationism...which is why is the Christian creation story more valid than the thousands of others out there from a multitude of cultures around the world? I ask this because why is a creation story held up against science anyway? Science is not about a belief, its about measurement, period. Science in its attempt to explain things is making those conclusions based on measurement of one kind or another. What about creationism is there to measure? Nothing because it is a religious story. That being said, there are more creation stories out there, what makes the Christian version more valid than say the Hopi or the Masai? The reason I ask this is it seems to me that Christians set their story as the only creation story in existance and therefore must be held up against evolution in some kind of battle royale for what actually happened. I find that bizarre, why should a religous story have any bearing on science whatsoever?
There is knowledge to be gained for sure in some creation stories and in native myths, ie the story of the Thunderbird is now thought to be a story about a tsunami before the written word in the Pacific Northwest, but the knowledge of that is gained from MEASUREMENT of the salt infiltration of the coast to PROVE IT. Get what I am saying? There may in fact be some information to be gleaned from creation stories but they are not science and never will be. It seems a great folly of Christians to want to replace science with creationism or to twist what information they can so it suits their narrative. Science is science and religion is religion and they will never be the same thing. I don't believe science just because. I look at the measurements it takes and can see that it is correct if there is enough data. Religion is never about measurement it is about faith, so again they will never be the same or mean the same thing so why try make them???

darkmoonlady you have effortlessly expressed what i and many others have struggled to convey.
thank you

Those "insults" weren't to anyone in particular, unlike the ones you directed to UM members. And Leo is right, everyone else is right. This is getting old, wasn't the evidence in "Time to put up or shut up" enough? Why do you insist on dragging it on? You will never believe evolution is correct, and always belive in creationism.

YEP!! Leo's ALWAYS right.........isn't that right LEO?? LMAO!...you know I love you!! *MUAH*

Leo is pretty awesome , super awesome, even.

wow.....for someone who doesnt care sure seems to be bumping and filling up this thread

wow a leo fan club...well we might as well talk about that then..it will be the only intresting thing to talk about LMAO so ill debate LOEISIM LOL

I am not a Leo follower LMAO....I don't belive in Leoisim ...so ner ner

airka & Kaylee...bite me

Hey Phantam,

I appreciate your argument and found it both interesting and pretty well constructed. I would advise you to try and not take the negative comments personally and try to resist the temptation to retaliate. Those that think and speak with wisdom will make themselves manifest as will those that do not. Here are a few interesting FACTS to consider.

1. The Bible is the best selling book of all time.
2. It is an accurate and scientifically verified historical record.
3. It is the most powerful "supernatural" book.
4. Bible prophecy is proven to be a fact. It has and will continue to accurately predict the future. No other book that I know of can do that.
5. It changes people's lives.

Well why dont you get the ball rolling then....if you are intrested...pick any one of his evolution based threads...dont worry we will soon follow LMAO

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.............As a devoted follower of Leoism, and I mean VERY devoted, I must say that it's the ONLY way to go.

I like you too :x, alot of great members on this forum. Very admirable lot you are.

And that means...a lot of people have read it?! It doesn't make it fact or true.

I personally base my life on number 19 of the best selling books of all time - Watership Down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

Schnaff x

Supernatural is fictional...what FACT has it shown??...............in which way has it changed lives??

Are you sure you are in the right thread...but still ..you may as well just discuss the bible..cuz lets face it too many are sick of talking evolution

anyhoo about those facts in the bible?? what are those??

Do you believe the bible is FACT?? if so why do you hold what is known a FAITH??

BM, if you join my fan club you get a poster, a free i-Pod nano with recordings of my covers of all Englebert Humperdinck's greatest hit, and eternal salvation.

*sorry, I can't afford a full i-Pod like the Jesus fan club members get*

They've proven some of it is historically accurate. A lot of it they haven't proven to be historically accurate. For example they haven't proven giants ever existed like the Bible says they did. Nobody has proven Jesus ever existed. Nobody has proven Moses ever existed or that the Israelites were ever slaves in Egypt.

ohh goodie...you can candy exchange with arika and I too then LMAO


Psssttt I dont follow the Leo one muaaawwwhawhaw haw <--my evil laugh lol




*waves...Hi Leo*

I have to say that Becky's Mom seems like she is stalking thaphantum. All I have ever seen you do is show up in his threads insulting him.

If he offends you that much then why don't you just IGNORE HIM?




To the people who think this has been "done to death"

There is a nifty solution. Don't post in the thread and it will sink to the bottom.

You can also start threads that you'd be interested in discussing on your own.

Actually no..I havent insulted him..I mean real insults..I pointed out how wrong it is to say that atheists are closed minded and telling to go and grow a brain to someone is so not right...and made a point in saying...both creation and evolution cant be prooved...and hey whos to say that is wrong..cuz everyone knows it cant be proved

When I agree with him or anyother christian that I have done I get lots ofthese --> good BM
But when i say anything about insulting an atheist..all of a sudden..im the insulting one...hmmmmm!!!! and I am not the only one that pointed this out either
but yea you are right..if no reponces it will sink to the bottom...

Yes you have. You're a frickin' witch to him and to everyone on this site that you decide to turn your nose up at.


And you follow people around harrassing them. There is a reason you've been suspended so many times.

If you don't like someone why don't you just leave them alone and ignore them. Are you mentally BENT?


edited for language