that is one messy site! lol
cant even find what to read
haha

What a polite fellow. It's a deal. I guess I'll be digging out some relaxing literature next weekend

I advocate the BBC's "Walking With" series on this board quite often. I guess that is beacause it is a very entertaining medium to familiarise one's self with the evolution of the earth and it's inhabitants. May I suggest it as a good starting spot to whet your appetite. The recently released Monsters series is terrific as well.
Once the facts are in place, the big picture makes a great deal more sense.

Best of luck and happy learning

dragons might exist
you never know

and how is it possible to prove something doesnt exist? haha

For the billions of people who believe the Bible is inspired by God and true, they must believe in dragons by default, for it is plainly stated in that book that they are the highest heavelny creatures. In fact, if you were to go to the earlier legends that the Bible was based upon, you would discover that the God Yahweh is a dragon as well! And we still see this in some of the scriptures, that describe him with blaming breath, smoking nostrils, huge sweeping wings that create the wind, and "consuming" his enemies and even disobedient or careless priests.

And then you have the other (oriental) half of the world who also believe dragons are real, though supernatural creatures.

So in reality, it is only the tiny minority of atheists in the world who believe dragons are not real.

so basically:
atheists believe in dragons
jesus people believe in dragons
and so do orientals? (whatever that means? )
who else does that leave!
hehe, anyways
back to ma question..
how is it possible to prove something doesnt exist?
you cant!

your right, all you can do is to look at the evidence for dragons and explain it.
dragons are mythological/totemistic constructs that stem in most cases from snake cults.

Actually, I think most "Jesus people" don't believe in dragons as the bible defines them (heavenly creatures/seraphim), but rather, thinks these are simply dinosaurs that lived side by side with people since they think the earth is only 6000 years old. They simply ignore the part in the Bible that says these dragons "sing praises to God".

But your are right, it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist, and in the case of dragons, virtually every human culture has claimed they do exist, and "dragon-like" cryptids are still one of the most common, although people would rather call them lake monsters, sea monsters, giant birds or pterodactyls.

Dragons still exist.. we drove them off this planet because we are too much of a match for them.. they have since fled to the planet uranus and the only way for you lord of the rings fairies to see them is to go stick ur head up there.. but beware... they are a bit anal... since they still haven't forgot about our feud.

not true
most cultures also had large reptiles seprait from dragons
like crocs and moniders and snakes

xD
wtf lol

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!.... there was once a man borned in the year of the dragon, who was foretold to be the one who destroyed all evil and bring peace to the world...but that man wasn't chuck norris.. cus chuck norris killed him.

umm.... ok...
hehe, anyways:
if you find evidence of anything that looks weird
take a pic
hehe
anyways, that site is so stupid
haha, especially in the setup, should get someone that knows what they're doing to make it heh
i like how they call sea monsters like loch ness and stuff, sea dragons
haha

Hehe, Jesus people.
Never had oriental 2 minute noodles? And you are from Oz? Everyone in Oz eats 2 minute noodles!!

To prove something does not exist.
First place to start - common sense. If someone claimed a 60 Metre green Girraffe was eating the public library, you could dismiss that.
Watch out for claims made on April 1st.
Supportive evidence. If somone was to tell you that cats have horns, you can seee a cat in any street. You know this is incorrrect from past and or present observation.

And the biggie. **BURDEN OF PROOF.** (that's a links as well, try it) If you make the claim that a green giraffe is eating the public library, you need to get a reliable corraborating source and gather evidence. Calling a news crew would do the trick. If you make the claim, back it with substantial evidence or be prepare to be labelled a liar. You MUST present evidence to be taken seriously. Making a claim without undeniable proof is a waste of time and effort. Unfortunate but that's just how it is.
If indeed one is a liar and has been caught out TAKE IT ON THE CHIN. Do not keep arguing a lie.

So, you can prove something does NOT exist simply by asking the claimant provide proof. It's the rules buddy You know what they say (although I STILL don't know who they is) Rules is rules

DC, I thought you had said years ago that the seraphim were actually creatures that had been raised up (evolved?) by God to be his mighty servants and that they originally had been dinosaur like creatures. So, in a sense, dinosaurs did/do walk with humans, almost every day.

i dont have 2 minute noodles hehe
um.....
yeh, if you believe it, thats all you need to know really, if nobody believes you, their fault lol
but most people that are lying, know they're lying

Phyche, you make a much needed point about statements declared as factual. The subject of most of the thread is, instead, about opinion. Many here have made a factual statement that many people throughout the world once believed in dragons. Not only is evidence of their belief available in their writings, but many posters here have provided some of it.

Statements regarding the current or past real existence of dragons have largely been opinions, not statements of fact. For those who have affirmatively that they do or did exist in fact, I would be interested in seeing the supporting evidence.

in my opinion and in the opinion of many eminent scientists (lol) it is difficult to assertain the exact 'beliefs' of many people throughout the world.
sweeping generalised statements always invite criticism. interpreting their writings in terms of 'belief' is frought with problems.
especially where mythological constructs are concerned.
for example pliney in his 'natural history' wrote about dragons in various countries...such 'evidence' can be used to support the claim that the ancients believed in dragons....in a sense it is true...but it was his understanding that the term applied to constrictor snakes that battled with elephants and eagles. claiming that he 'believed' in the fiery seraphim, or other quadrapedal flying, fire-breathing, gigantic beasties is just mistaken...it displays a lack of comprehension of the evidence. It is clear from pliney's account that he never saw such beasties, but heard tales of them, and also his concept of 'dragon' was different to our 21st century western minds...so we should not expect such evidence to back up our claim.

in my opinion which i have provided earlier, ...re: origins of chinese dragon myth. is that dragons are myth. Totemistic animals...

I share your interest to see the evidence that supports the case for dragons existing in a real physical sense.

opinions, if they are to be worth anything are formed by looking at evidence critically, and making decisions based on that evidence. where opinions differ it is worthwhile for all that the evidence is reexamined, for the purpose of the discussion developing along successfull and profitable lines.
for evidence to be succesfully reexamined it is necessary to present it fully, with references so that each participant in the discussion can evaluate it themselves. Generalisations should be discouraged, vagueness should be discouraged.
instead of presenting a vast corpus of disjointed allusions, the presentation and examination of evidence should be conducted in a methodical and contextual manner; point for point, and the discussion should engage each point. each point of evidence should be evaluated for reliablility, and relevance to the argument as a whole.

but this is only if we want to present our arguments and discuss them in an adult and productive manner. its much more fun to wind each other up, create new identities to back us up, and disregard the opinions of others. (this last point is easy to fall into when the opinions your faced with are ill-concieved)
perhaps someone here would like to start the ball rolling...this thread apparently believes that dragons are real, it is then upto those that support this opinion to present their argument, and evidence to support it, for consideration.

Edited for coherence; apologies, such are the ramblings of a tired mind.

Yes, that is what the Bible and many other ancient texts are actually saying, but the whole point of fundamental Christiaity is attractive is that its dogma presents humans as popping out of thin air as nordic Nazi supermen, denying evolution and with no connection of man to the "lower" primates. And these Christians pretend to take a fundamental look at the Bible as being completley the word of God, yet ignore all those things they don't like, like the fact that the Bible says the most senior heavenly creatures were fiery flying serpents. This also implies evolution in the Bible, suggesting that God's oldest servants were reptilian in form, and if we accept the possibility that there was an intelligent "creator", the first lifeform that would make a practical assistant would be reptiles. And curiously giant reptiles serve as gods or assistants to gods in cultures all around the world.

But all of this way way beyond the naive fundamental mentality that the earth is only 6000 years old and normal dinosaurs lived side by side with humans, and some even traveled on Noah's ark to explain the dragons mentioned in the Bible after the alledged world wide flood. They do not recognize these dragons as intelligent servant creatures, even though this is what the Bible says. When something questions the fundamental Christian "master race" mentality, even the Bible must take second place to their "superman mentality".

My goodness lil gremlin, I had no idea that I had bold-faced any of my words.
This thread has covered two topics despite its name: weather there is any reality to dragons, and what people over time had thought about them. I was merely pointing out that it is possible to make factual arguments about what people had believed and wrote about the subject in the past. As the statements then, as now, do not provide hard evidence for us today, those original statements must be regarded as opinions.
Much of what I have read falls into the categories of speculation or faith, not scientific hypothesis (as such a statement must include a repeatable method of testing).

doood grow up..there are no such things as dragons k???!!!?!?!?!?!!
Jesus H. christ! >:T bunch of fruity pebbles living in a fantasy land that hates reality so much they have to prove creature in their fantasy land really do exist. get a life! <^>(-_-)<^>

Not sure I agree there, the thread reads Dragons Still Alive? This site thinks so. They are not. Is this place not one to discuss crypto-creatures? Perhaps another forum might be a better place to discuss such a thing i.e - Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs. Also, I see some in here themsleves believeing Dragons exist at present day. There is no evidence to support that belief. This is Cryptozoology. I don't like to mix the two as before long the Fairy, pixie, unicorn, vampire bandwagon will be along. As those storybook creatures can also only exist in fantasatical opinion, prompting many to come out of the woodwork thinking there is strength in numbers.

If any supporting evidence did exist to prove Dragons once existed, we would not be having this conversation now would we As you say, any supporting evidence is that of opinion.

In addition, the website mentioned in the thread topic was of extremely poor quality. Surely nobody could take that seriously.

Never tried 2 minute noodles??? You haven't lived.

Hrmzzz..................didn't follow that link did you?

If nobody believes you - their fault???? Strange thinking. You are not one of those people who firmly believe the rest of the world is wrong, you are right are you??

People who lie eventually get caught out. Then they get what they deserve

Some good points Psyche, but the forum is called "Cryptozoology, Myths and Legends". I was not aware that the content had to meet rigorous scientific standards. Discussion of cryptids usually takes the form of anecdotes, grainy photographs, and physical evedence that seems to disappear. Remember, this is the same thread that has Chupicabra and Were-Wolves. The crypto part of the discussion here seems to be weather dinosaur, thunder-bird, or moth-man might be dragons, or vice-versa. Obviously, any hard evidence of any of these creatures would change everything.
As for myself, while I find dragons fascinating, I have made no claims myself. I am mostly interested in how these creatures fill our dreams and legends.
I have taken your advice and opened a dragon forum in Spirituality, Religion, and Beliefs.

Perhaps I have missed a post or two, I have only seen DC refering to Dragons as dinosaur, thunder-bird, or moth-man, or rather that he feels these explainations for the aforementioned sightngs be dragons. Everyone else seems to be yes they do or no they don't.

Too many Werewolf and vampire threads exist hiding under the guise of legend. I do find it amazing how many harbour a bleief in storybook fantasies. To me, the myth/legend bit refers to almost any cryptid - Nessie, Thunderbirds, even Chupacubra. Such entities are discussed for their realism and possible explainations and begginings. For instance, some theories on chuppa - Eira Barbara and The Jaguarundi are very good suspects. I do not think this is applying a rigorous standard, just keeping things within the realm of sensibility.
Thank you for opening the other thread. I would be more than happy to discuss the belief system with you there, in here, it's more animal than spiritual. Put a flat tire on that bandwagon LOL

well i clicked it
just didnt understand it lol
im only 13!
hehe

oh and
if i took a pic i knew was real
i would tell people
they probably wouldnt believe me
but if they did, yaya
if they dont, meh
know what i mean?

So why aren't you making the same argument about "God", or "Jesus"? Dragons are claimed to be "real" in the same scriptural sources that states God is real. And we're not talking fantasy land at all. We are talking historical accounts, from every human culture, sometimes witnessed by thousands of people. But I suppose anything you haven't seen yourself must be a fantasy. If someone writes a fantasy story about a historical character, do we then relegate all texts about the person to the realm of fantasy? Like it or not, "dragons" are contained in the scriptures of probably 90 percent of the worlds religions, and brilliant as well as ignorant people believe in these faiths. I suppose you can tell them all to "get a life", though I suspect a great many of them have a "life" undoubtedly far superior to your own possibly very pathetic existence.

Agreed, that was a bit harsh. Dragons, be they real or not make up a large part of human culture.
I would have thought not, certainly in modern/current times, however, we are making new ancient discoveries everyday aren't we.
Had a middle age person stumbled over Dracorex hogwartsia, what other conclusion would one come to?

Sorry to wake a dead topic, , but another thread has a supposed sighting.

"A massacre in flight" in Mysteries of Mind, Space, and Time.

I think the strongest evidence that points to dragons not living is the fact that if they were actually intelligent creatures that had mystical powers and what not...they would surely not allow people to make a movie called "Reign Of Fire" ...

I say they live, do i have proof no, but do i think so hells ya

I dont know those hollywood producers can be pretty darn mean

he's right dude they are real, and they're intellegent the reason we havent found any proof of either
1. They exsisted but are extint (not likely with such a life span) or
2. They exsist but they dont want us to know about it (much more likely)

i mean dont you think a creature with such intelligence would be smart enough not to want to get caught by humans unless it had made it's intentions clear and wanted humans to find it i dont think we are ever going to find dragons, however i say they exsist and hopefully one day i'll get to be the person who finds them

OR they have never existed and are nothing more than myths. Just like santa and the easter bunny. Might as well believe in them too.

Dragons used to exist.

ok since theres no1 else with *Edit* to say this...

*Edit*you really insist on ruining peoples dreams hopes and goals dont you? well heres what you need to to *Edit*

and thank youTherion24 for making a statment that is true

Love you too. I know the truth can hurt, but come on man. I bet you I have more people agreeing with me then you do with your dragon's revenge theory. I mean, good grief.

Where are their remains? Did they somehow, mysteriously, avoid leaving fossil remains?

on the topic of cryptozoology im sitting on the fence,
sure there COULD be dragons out there, but its highly unlikely for one they would need a food source as big as people say that they are they would have to eat something pretty friggen big, but hey maybe they dont, but along with everything else, bigfoot,nessi,dragons. they have to die sometime right so why cant we find a corpse thats identifiable.
but hey who knows im just in the middle on this one

also for the dude saying its most likely they exist and there smart enough not to be detected, seriously? we have satelites that can take a picture of a dude scratching his butt as he bends over to pick up the morning paper. but no, we cant detect dragons flying around? -.-

ok to cover a few topics... first of all to Eric, i spassed im srry but i mean really do you have to ruin my dreams? is it not at all possible that dragons exsited or do still?

next up toIncorrigible1 i guess its just that the archiologists of the havent found any (if they are even extinced)

and finaly to Akatsuki-pein, perhaps in they place they are the interfearence is waaay to great, for example i dont think we've yet to get a clear shot at the bermuda correct? (if im rong sue me) and i think thats due to magnetic disturbence, so maybe the dragons are in a place where theres a high ammount of magnetic disterbence

Just throwing some stuff in here.

#1 - In nature, corpses get destroyed pretty quickly. Notice the last time anyone you know having seen the corpse of a bear.

#2 - I'm not throwing out the idea that dragons don't exist simply because even though they may not be here, there may be some creature that resembles dragons on another planet. There are many worlds, with many life form possibilities and evolution can be very interesting.

#3 - If there were dragons, they would most likely have to be smaller then the monstrous giants heard of in tales to be land based.

Arrogance based on Ignorance level: Dangerously High

Seriously dude, stop embarrasing yourself.

No. It is not at all possible, and we have proven to you on many, many occasions why this is so. Look through the majority of posts in this thread - we have listed over 20 reasons dragons do not and did not exist and you've offered 1 or 2, which have been instantenously disproven. Quit while your ahead. Or behind. It really doesn't matter, as long as theres quitting involved.

But then skeptic, you cannot say that for certaint. See how do you know that dragons simply cannot exist? Maybe they exist but in spiritual form or they are aliens from outer space. Maybe they have high technology enough to make themselves invisible? Maybe they have special powers? Maybe they can shapeshift. Maybe they can hide in the ground, live in the center of the earth.

There are a lot of maybe around here but still nobody can be sure. That is why we are having this discussion.

You can't ask people to quit. I am sure you would not like it of I asked you to quit

No.1- This is an 'Unexplained-Mysteries' discussion forum. Sceptics and non-sceptics alike have the freedom of expression and opinion to debate openly, within the parameters of the forums Terms and Conditions.

No.2- Insults, swearing and general bickering does nothing to further one's argument and is not in keeping with this forum's Terms and Conditions.

No.3- Mostly there has been hostility and arguments regarding the subject of Dragons. It seems obvious to me that at the moment there are certain members who cannot respectfully debate within this subject. There have been similar warnings regarding this thread in the past and nothing positive from those warnings have occured. This leaves me no choice but to close this thread.