I am currently starting to research why women marry men on death row. It appears to be a strictly female practice as Chowchillia prison reported that not one woman on death row has gotten married and of all the correspondents in San Quentin Prison to the condemned 99% are from women.

I am very curious as to why women are so attracted to murders, paedophiles and other convicted criminals. I'm in the UK and a few years ago two young girls were murdered by a man Ian Huntley, since his incarceration he has received marriage proposals. This country was in complete uproar while they were searching for the girls and even after he was arrested and now he is an idol to some, the perfect potential partner.

I was just wondering if anyone had any opinions about reasons why women are attracted to men like this.

All the attention and the danger aspect. People like those guys are celebrities many times on a national or global level and some people just don't care what they did, just the fact that they're famous. Some others I think they just find out about them, think they're innocent and start talking. I think if they go out of their way to make their relationship a secret, it might have something to it. If they scream to the media, they're just attention seekers who didn't get enough hugs as a child.

Yeah that's true about the fame and trying to get into the limelight a bit, but why would someone want to become famous for marrying a child rapist and murder? Do you think women think they can fix these men? I have a theory that holds no weight and could get highly critisized for it but no offence is indended.
I think a lot of these women want to marry them hoping they will give them details about their crimes to satisfy their desires to hear horrible crimes, mostly sex crimes, explained from the person who actually did it. There is this term hybristophilia, where someone is sexually aroused by the thought of their partner being violent towards another person. I don't think everyone who marries a man on death row is motivated by these desires but do you think it is more common than people are willing to accept?

Fame? Money? spot light? oprah?

The celebrity thing is probably one factor....

You mentioned that the women on death row don't receive marriage proposals, this might have something to do with whatever cause behind the phenominon (sp) that there are very few female serial killers, while there are plenty of male serial killers. And evidently men aren't interested in "violent" women (although we're certainly aware of some that are, but not THAT violent)

It's also probably linked to the concept of how so many women who were abused as children end up with husbands who abuse them. Obviously murder is a hard triat to pass along to family members, but I think you know what I'm trying to connect here. It wouldn't suprise me if an great percentage of the women propossing marriage to these guys have seen some serious abuse in their lives.

All just my personal thoughts...no fact behind any of it...

Why not marry someone on death row? Or a serial killer? She can have the best of both worlds. She has her freedom to do what she wants. Keeps all her stuff. Doesn't have to worry about cleaning up after him. No kids. Tells her parents for shock value. And when he dies, she gets whats his. And benefits?

I totally understand the freedom aspect of it. Someone who is stuck in a cell all day can devote all their time to somone, however men chop and change their love interest so imagine being dumped by a man locked in a cell. Women will move from Europe to America to be near the man they plan to marry. It's hard to understand that. Giving up your whole life as you know it to move beside a prison and the only person you know is behind bars.

Do you think women are attracted to the masculinity of their crimes? Has it got roots in the caveman days, the man in the hunter gatherer and the women pick the most able to survive to have children with? In this case just to be associated. A lot of women who marry men on death row wouldn't be high profile therefore these women are relatively unknown so for high profile cases like Manson and Ramirez but just low profile cases don't bring that fame along with it.

I believe it has something to do with a personality disorder. I'm not a psychologist, so I really can't go into detail, but I can only imagine that a woman who purposely goes after a relationship with a man in prison for some horrible crime must have something psychologically wrong with them.

On another side, when my sister was younger, she became pen pals with a convict through a church organization. He soon was "born again, " and "falling in love with her" and needing money, and when he got paroled, wanting to move in with us (she and I lived with our mother at the time) until he could "get a job." At first she was flattered, and confused about her feelings (she had little experience with men), but as time progressed, and after she and I made a few visits (I went reluctantly), she came to her senses and realized she was being used.

Unfortunately, during one visit that I attended, he asked that I call out a friend of his for a visit. After talking with this man for a while (he had tattooed 666 on his knuckles), he quickly went into details of why he was incarcerated. It seems he killed his girlfriend's lover. I was quickly creeped out, and realized I was talking to someone who was mentally disturbed if not a psychopath. He had no regret for his actions. I was a 19 year old, innocent, church-going girl who was terrified with the encounter. Afterward, he began writing me, but I never responded and he finally gave up on me.

For weeks afterward, I had nightmares. I was terrified that my mother was going to allow my sister's pen pal to stay with us, thinking it was the Christian thing to do. I guess I wasn't Christian enough--I could only imagine getting raped/killed in my own house. Luckily, he went to Florida after being paroled and was quickly back in jail for theft.

Yeah you can see how they get sucked in so easily. They are good at telling women what they want to hear and it is beneficial to have someone on the outside. I think a lot of women think maybe they can help these men and all they need is the love of a good woman so to speak. I can understand that desire to help people but I suppose being honest about it the only reason I would be in touch with a condemned man would be to see what they would talk about in their letters. What would happen if I fell for his letters telling me he loved me? It can happen easily but to just normal person who would write to a prisoner but there are some women who will write to numerous men on death row until something sparks off with one of them.

I posted a somewhat similar thread back in the day. Here.

I doubt that helps.

If a woman is turned on by a mans voilent actions and looks up to them for it, they deserve to be serving the same punishment as him!

I wanted to add, there is a certain site that allows you to communicate with prisoners n such. I won't add a link because I find it a tad...erhm, bad and don't want to promote it.

but check out the board stats: Threads: 241,586, Posts: 2,696,321, Members: 107,482 - now thats a lot of people talking to inmates.

I know this woman who wants everyone to see her as a martyr. Giving up her life for this man in prison is a way to get sympathy and she plays the role with relish. If she has a problem, poor thing, she is giving up her life for someone else , you know! She suffers so many hardships and believe me, she will tell anyone who will listen.

Speaking from a female point of view - they are crazy. I cannot possibly see why they woudld subject themselves to this. They are sick indivduals. There is no way that any person can make another person change. It just does not happen, so that excuse is invalid. Any person that desires the limelight that bad needs some serious help.

I personally dont' think that marraige for a prisoer should be permitted. They are there to be punished, not eat wedding cake and have a "honeymoon" in the prison trailer.

Yeah I have checked out the websites that encourage you to write to prisoners, it's quite funny how some of them have pictures of a man and a woman off on a beach somewhere holding hands. Quite unlikely if he's in prison. But it sells this image of a happy ending. Women who are sitting at home, maybe have kids who keep them occupied most of the time could easily sucked into writing to a man on death row. It might be considered beneficial for the prisoner to have a woman write to him and get married but what about the women who get involved in it. I can't imagine it would benefit me to fall in love with a serial rapist/murderer. Is it not the the jobs of the forensic psychologists involved to find suitable treatments and not fob them off onto women willing to rearrange their whole lives for someone.

Watchstopper I can imagine you're pretty fed up with the person who has given her life up. I can understand standing by someone who has gone to prison, and then having to deal with the hardships that come along with it but why would you walk into that situation knowing what is going to come out of it.

Distortedpandy your other link is very interesting. Some people really gave some strong opinions about being attracted to criminals. You know people are, when I was younger I was fascinated and I think I was drawn to them to almost annoy my parents, even though at the time I wouldn't admit it. I was proud of it and I don't know if it was for shock value or what. You begin to realise as you get older the most sick thoughts that go through your head are no where near as bad as what they fantasize about.

Is it an obsession with different people that we're drawn to? Women and men generally have very similar thoughts and patterns of behaviour. Are we drawn to people so far from our way of thinking to make us feel less generic?

This is a good thread. I have read many newspaper articles on women who have fallen in love with people in prison (usually men who are serving life sentences) and I have always wondered how and why they fall for such people.

One thing that sprang to mind for me is that these women think they might actually be the one person who can 'save or cure' these people. Quite often it does seem to be people lacking in confidence or people with little or no previous experience in relationships. I think its human nature for people to want to help or save people (apart from the freaks that are serving prison sentences) but why try and save someone who has committed a terrible crime?...adopt a dog for God Sake.

Another reason could be just a fascination with why the people would commit the crime in the first place, I for one know I love to read true books on murders, serial killers and the like, because its something so alien to me, I always try and read things to try and get inside the head of these people and would love to know what makes them do what they do.

These women who visit prisoners all seem to say that the criminals have changed, which always makes me laugh because its not as if they're free to do whatever they want anyway.

I don't personally think fame comes into it, I think its a morbid fascination that gets them there in the first place, then the women are suprised that the criminal doesn't appear to be a monster and knows all the 'right' things to say, the fact that they have probably had 24 hours a day for years to think up and rehearse a speech and poor me rant doesn't even enter the poor womens heads.

I think like someone else said, marriages in jail shouldn't be allowed. It should be part of their punishment to deprive them of happiness and the comfort and support of a relationship.

I hate stereotyping, especially when it comes to males and females, but I agree that it could just be a biological factor. It might be the same reason why there are more females in humanitarian organisations - this need to nurture, or as someone else mentioned, the belief that they can change/ help someone by taking 'proper' care of them.



I agree. These men tell them all the right things and suddenly it's "love." How can they claim someone has changed if they didn't even know them prior to their crime? The whole mystery behind the man/event probably draws these women in, followed by the same manipulative nature that probably earned the trust of previous victims. There's nothing wrong with wanting to comfort a distressed person (as most men on death row I'm assuming would be) but I'd be put off giving comfort to someone who chose to take a life knowing the pain it would cause to family and friends. Someone like that just doesn't have a conscience, so I wouldn't be fooled into thinking they give a damn about anyone other than themselves.

I think there are too many factors involved to really come to a conclusion, but it's an interesting topic and I wouldn't mind looking into it further, so thanks for the thread.

I guess it gives a whole new meaning to the term ''till death(row)do us part''...

These women are attracted by two main aspects of the sicko/pyschos. Both being Ego/self esteem issues-- First, it's the fact the men are in prison, and not in real world & not subjected to every day temptations. She likes the idea he's closed in like wild animal and a leash, so to speak-- but it's in addition too--> The second is the attention aspect of it. She feels she needs to claim this "famous" sicko-psycho as her mate in order for herself to even have an identity. She's rather loathesome, b/c she is simply saying she accepts and backs this man's crimes, despite whatever, or however. It's appalling.

possibility (a):
I think some women get into this behavior pattern because it elevates their own victim status. As in, "oh my God, that poor woman. Her husband is in prison. It must be so hard for her".

possibility (:
Other women want to get inseminated but don't really want a relationship with a man. They end up getting involved with a guy who might be available to them via conjugal visits, but who will never intrude on a day-to-day, real human basis. It's too bad that fertility clinics are so expensive that working women who want to give birth to a child without a guy can't use them. Obviously, these women could go to a male friend, but the friend would be crazy to enter into the venture because he'd be legally responsible for supporting the resulting kid.

possibility ©:
Some women get to know these guys through church functions and such. They start by writing supportive letters and then end up meeting the guy and "falling in love". This behavior pattern is similar to possibility (a) in that the women are acting out a personal fantasy (this time they appear in a starring role as Spiritually Enlightened Martyr). Since they will never actually have to put up with the guy on a day-to-day basis, their level of spiritual xommitment will never actually be put to the test.

Basically, I find it impossible to believe that women who marry guys on death row honestly want a relationship.

I really think women do this because they have very low self-esteem. I could never understand why women and men want to get to know these criminals. As far as those criminals who are on death row, maybe the women think "Those poor souls. I just know they've got some good inside them. They're just victims of society or victims of their childhood upbringing." Some women are blind to the amount of hurt these criminals have done, and many times these criminals wouldn't even bat an eye to hurting or using a woman if they had half a chance to do so.

Hi Tenkay, this is in response to your IM.

Lol No, I wouldn't, Tenkay. That's not really my type. I know some women like to date and marry men in prison. I watched Judge Judy the other day and one lady was on there and she said "I can't believe it. I bailed him out of prison, and I wrote to him in prison, and when he got out he used me for everything I have."

I think if women date or marry bad boys, they're just asking for trouble. even if they're on death row, a woman has to consider what he'd do to her if he wasn't on death row.

in england one woman married a famous nutter named kray all bcos she loved him it had nothing to do with her wanting to write books on famous u.k underworld figures.
now kate kray has written a small library about all sorts of thickos!! including football hooligans, nightclub doormen, and even mentally ill retired boxers??
so theres no real way of knowing why these fruitcakes do this just the fact that they are ATTENTION WHORES

Yeah, so they're sort of like groupies --not rock groupies, but convict groupies.

I'd like to see how many women get married to men who ARENT on death row, but still in prison. Would the woman who married Richard Ramirez have been as likely to marry him,if she knew he could be released someday?
Also, what are the numbers of woman who marry men on death row who are "famous" as opposed to men who aren't?

There are actually a lot of women who marry non famous men on death row and in prison. There are prison pen pal web sites that you can go on and write to prisoners who will be getting released some day. Some even have a section which indicates if they welcome donations for legal fees. There are women who marry them and give up so much of their life and when the man comes out he leaves them.

I know people think it's for fame, and maybe the high profile ones are for fame, but what about the ones who aren't getting any fame from it. Plus the fame they get isn't good. If you were married to a rapist/murderer you would be socially isolated, your family would probably question your state of mind and slowly you wouldn't want anyone to know.

I read a story earlier but I can't find it again I know it was America anyway. It is about a man who was convicted of raping a boy and got married in prison to a lawyer or something but don't quote me on her profession my point is that she was respected within her community, and when he got released their relationship didn't work out. They got divorced and one day the police pulled him over for a traffic violation and found a gun in the car and he confessed he was going to kill his wife and then himself. So these things happen and some people can't change. You wouldn't be very suprised to hear a woman got shot after she married a convicted child molester, but you wouldn't expect the person who shot her to be the convicted child molester she married.

Because some women are stupid.

^no.

I believe it has something to do with low self esteem, if the can start a relationship with a man in prison they may feel like they have progressed and 'made' something of themselves, in quite a twisted way. They probably have an imaginary relationship built in in their heads with whoever the convict is, they are living in a complete dream world and have this wonderful idea that when (if) said convict is released they will have a fabulous relationship with the added factor that they helped to turn a bad man good, perhaps?

I kinda agree with the fame thing too, they maybe think that some people see it as a good thing, that these women are giving up their lives to help people.

And... all girls love a bad boy

I kind of have to go with the "some women are dumb argument."
Yeah, they think they can change a guy, regardless of his faults. But their stupidity is so costly. What about the woman who marries a sex offender, then has a kid by him? She just cursed that child to molestation. What about the woman that marries a violent criminal then gets thrown down a flight of stairs by him?
Yeah, it is stupidity plain and simple. Even with the Death row inmates.
There's stupidity there too. Why marry a Death Row inmate? Why you're brightening someone's life by letting them know someone loves him while you're free outside of prison to screw whoever you want. You get your married tax break cake and get to eat it too! And you feel like you've done a good thing even as you cheat on your 'husband'.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

It is a strange topic. I read a journal article about adolescents and delinquency and how romantic interest is a positive reinforcement to the delinquents and it got me thinking. These adolescent girls see the most delinquent as being the most popular (whether they are or not is not relevant but they are usually most notorious, this can be confusing, notoriety and popularity) and then they have this desire to be with them as it might make them "popular" by comparison. So, not intending any offence, are these women, regardless of their age, at the emotional development as they were when they were adolescents. They see a man who has ultimate power, the power over a life by taking it, and regarding this as a desireable quality to have in a man.

It is a safe bet having a husband on death row, you can make them into anything you want in your head, interpret their letters any way you want, and your fantasy will never be shattered by reality, then you can effectively play the part of the grieving widow. But there has to be more of a psychological reason behind it. I can accept that people fall in love without meaning to sometimes but everyone I have seen speak about their love of a violent offender is "I wrote to him as a pen pal and then he turned out to be my soulmate". It is a phenomenon. If they were merely looking for a pen pal why didn't they write to female inmates? Afterall is there really such a thing as a platonic friendship? (That's starting a new thread but just makes you wonder)

Not me......I love a good boy.

I wish for once that I could love a good boy!!

Can I just ask, do the women even get THAT much press coverage? so it might not be for fame?

It's a very good question. There are a lot more of these women than the public is aware of. People murder other people everyday. It's a part of out culture, not every one of these people get a lot of press coverage except a small column commenting on their trial or whatnot, the majority of them are not a major discussion point. So the women that are with them are not getting any press coverage. It isn't for the fame for them. For some it appears a pretty obvious reason, but that's only a small percentage of them. So star_child you're right when you say it isn't for the fame. I think that's too superfitial a reason.

Good boys go to heaven and bad boys go to the bedroom

You know, Goody, you've got a point there. Good boys may go to heaven, and bad boys go the bedroom but once they're there, they can tie you up and beat you. That's my point. Why take the chance? They're unpredictable.