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thunkerdrone
linked-image
Brief video of John Kerry's interview during appearance at Book People in Austin, Texas. Admits that the WTC7 building was intentionally brought down in a controlled demolition.

linked-image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn4Yx1MTgfQ


Add John Kerry to the rest of the fools that Slipped UP!


1. Bush saw the first plane hit live on tv:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=48...tower&hl=en (1min)

2. Rumsfeld Says Flight 93 was shot down:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=71...+down&hl=en (30sec)

3. Rumsfeld Says Missle Hit Pentagon - "Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center"
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%2...-Flight-77.html

4. NYC Mayor Slips-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hNmf76GUCw

5. Silverstein Admitted Bombs Brought down WTC7
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...rry+silverstein

6. Bush is scared.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ

QUOTE
http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/220407_kerry_wtc7.html

Senator John Kerry was questioned concerning 9/11 during an appearance at Book People in Austin, Texas. Members of Austin 9/11 Truth Now asked Kerry about the officially unexplained collapse of WTC Building 7."

Kerry responded:

"I do know that that wall, I remember, was in danger and I think they made the decision based on the danger that it had in destroying other things-- that they did it in a controlled fashion."

This matches statements by leaseholder Larry Silverstein regarding the collapse of WTC7 where he said. "We've had such terrible loss of life. Maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it. And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

Furthermore, hundreds of police, fireman and other first responders have gone public reporting being informed of Building 7's controlled demolition prior to the building collapse, negating the government's official story that building collapse was due to fire.

Additionally, an EMT, who recently went public only under the name 'Mike', said that hundreds of emergency rescue personnel were told over bullhorns that Building 7 was about to be "pulled" and that a 20 second radio countdown preceded its collapse.

The BBC and CNN also both reported the collapse of Building 7 more than twenty minutes before it actually fell. The misreporting not only stands out as a glaring error-- with the WTC 7 building still visibly standing in the background of the shot, but begs the question: how did BBC, BBC 24 and CNN all know in advance that Building 7 would collapse, when no steel building has ever collapsed from fires alone?

Official reports from both NIST and FEMA state that they cannot explain why Building 7 fell, but maintain that it was related to a terrorist attack on the complex on 9/11. However, the FEMA report concludes that:

"The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. The best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue."

A report by NIST regarding the collapse of Building 7 is officially underway, but such a report has yet to be published.

The 9/11 Commission Report makes no mention of WTC 7 whatsoever.

Senator John Kerry needs to disclose how he "knew" WTC 7 was brought down in a "controlled fashion" and who told him so. The official government story states no reason for the WTC 7 collapse. If Sen. Kerry has other information, he owes it to the victims, the families, who have been repeatedly lied to, and to the country at large to come forward with details that could answer outstanding questions.

Preparing to demolish even a moderate sized building takes weeks of preparation; a building as large as WTC 7-- a 47- story skyscraper-- must have taken at least as long. Therefore, the idea that the building was demolished in response to fires spread from the Twin Towers is not a satisfactory response, as the building could not have been set up for unexpected demolition in only a few hours, much less while fires burned inside.

Kerry was also asked about the research of Dr. Steven Jones, who has tested both samples of steel from the Twin Towers as well as recovered dust, which have both been tested positive for the chemical signature of Thermate, which is used to cut support beams in localized reactions during a controlled demolition.

Kerry stated that he was not aware of the research and is "open to hearing anything based in fact and evidence."

----------------------------------------------------------

TRANSCRIPT

Kerry was asked about an investigation into WTC7 and the connection with leasehold Larry Silverstein who publicly stated that the "decision was made to pull it," a term that refers to controlled demolition:

"I don't believe there's been a formal investigation. I haven't heard that; I don't know that. I do know that that wall, I remember, was in danger and I think they made the decision based on the danger that it had in destroying other things-- that they did it in a controlled fashion. You know he's part of the construction-- effort for the memorial and the use of the land, etc. There's been a long tug-of-war going on in New York and I've not been following every aspect of it because it's not in my jurisdiction, so to speak. But I'll check on the story-- I'll take a look at it based on what you've said. You're the first people anywhere in the country who've brought this to my attention
TK0001
Too bad the video was cut off right after that statement. I was hoping Kerry would describe how WTC7 was brought down with explosives that didn't make noise. Further, I'd love to hear his explanation as to how "they" made the north tower fall so that just enough debris would hit WTC7 to make the CD not look so obvious. I'd also like to hear his thoughts as to why "they" considered the CD of WTC7 would be necessary at all, if 9/11 was orchestrated by our government to get us motivated to go to war. Most people didn't even know that it fell, it happened so far after the fact.

Wait, what's this?

QUOTE
There's been a long tug-of-war going on in New York and I've not been following every aspect of it because it's not in my jurisdiction, so to speak. But I'll check on the story-- I'll take a look at it based on what you've said. You're the first people anywhere in the country who've brought this to my attention


Sounds like Kerry might not actually know what he's talking about regarding ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy theories.
coughymachine
You're quick to jump on this TK.

Which suggests it's important.
Unlimited
kerry heard about it at the bonesman meeting...he knows they imploded it...
thunkerdrone
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]1642332[/snapback]
Too bad the video was cut off right after that statement. I was hoping Kerry would describe how WTC7 was brought down with explosives that didn't make noise.



thermate is fairly quiet , it is not an explosive, it is an incendiary cutting material (burns its way through structural steel like a cutting torch)
there are also frequent references to an explosion at WTC7 online:
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/towerblast.html (takes a long moment to load)
Here is a closer version of what sounds like an explosion near WTC7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcRs1fv8i3I

Look at 00:08 into it. See the building in the right top background with the white and the tree in front of it?

That appears to be the same building at 00:11 in the following video. See the white building and the tree?

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/O...6Explosions.htm



thunkerdrone
also have a look at this newer video of WTC7 , (you can see innumerable small flashes/explosions going off in WTC7)

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=647...WTC7+explosions
TK0001
QUOTE(coughymachine @ Apr 23 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]1642364[/snapback]
You're quick to jump on this TK.

Which suggests it's important.


laugh.gif

Like my man Ray Davies once said:

"Paranoia, self destroyer."
TK0001
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]1642384[/snapback]
thermate is fairly quiet , it is not an explosive, it is an incendiary cutting material (burns its way through structural steel like a cutting torch)


It also burns vertically (gravity pulls it downward). And it has a large amount of barium nitrate in it. Was there any barium nitrate found at the site?

QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]1642384[/snapback]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcRs1fv8i3I

Look at 00:08 into it. See the building in the right top background with the white and the tree in front of it?


The authenticity of the sound of the explosion in this video is in question. The explosion is in stereo, which is impossible to capture with a minicam.

QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]1642384[/snapback]


This video is no longer available.
EmpressStarXVII
I don't think many will take him seriously.
thunkerdrone

more video analysis of WTC7 explosions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEtB9guKUeA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua7pkQQ1AiU

video of firefighters clearing way in ADVANCE of WTC7 demolition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwjmqkjwnvQ
("everybody get back , the building is going to blow up")

TK0001
QUOTE(EmpressStarXVII @ Apr 23 2007, 11:11 AM) [snapback]1642423[/snapback]
I don't think many will take him seriously.


Many outside the conspiracy community, that is.
thunkerdrone
a recent 2006 poll indicates 30% of Americans think 9/11 was an inside job

Third of Americans suspect 9-11 government conspiracy
http://www.newspolls.org/story.php?story_id=55
http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/279...piracy02ww.html

that is 300 MILLION PEOPLE
goofball_mcgee
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 03:34 PM) [snapback]1642462[/snapback]
that is 300 MILLION PEOPLE



300 million people isn't 1/3rd of the US population... 100 Million people is. Make sure you do your research with easy facts like that one, it throws all your other "facts" into question...
thunkerdrone
QUOTE(goofball_mcgee @ Apr 23 2007, 11:18 AM) [snapback]1642535[/snapback]
300 million people isn't 1/3rd of the US population... 100 Million people is. Make sure you do your research with easy facts like that one, it throws all your other "facts" into question...


I said the population is 300 million , and 30% of them feel 9/11 is an inside job

100 million people is a hell of a lot of people, not a fringe movement
TK0001
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]1642544[/snapback]
I said the population is 300 million , and 30% of them feel 9/11 is an inside job

100 million people is a hell of a lot of people, not a fringe movement


So? 200 million think it's bunk. That's a hell of a lot more people. And I'd say that a vast majority of those who think it was an inside job have done exactly 0 research into it, and if they did they'd change their minds.
thunkerdrone
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]1642555[/snapback]
So? 200 million think it's bunk. That's a hell of a lot more people. And I'd say that a vast majority of those who think it was an inside job have done exactly 0 research into it, and if they did they'd change their minds.


wait a minute here. 100 million think 9/11 was an inside job

there is no poll that says the others 'think its bunk' . is there? All it indicates is that the other two thirds have little to no opinion on
it.


I'd say the vast majority of those who have no opinion on the matter have not yet been reached by the extensive information on the globalist CIA's 9/11 attack on America.



'
contactismade
of the 100 million what percent actually read up on this and came to a logical conclusion, and which percentage simply believes it so because their best friend who is so smart and would never lie to them told them so?
TK0001
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]1642616[/snapback]
wait a minute here. 100 million think 9/11 was an inside job

there is no poll that says the others 'think its bunk' . is there? All it indicates is that the other two thirds have little to no opinion on
it.
I'd say the vast majority of those who have no opinion on the matter have not yet been reduced by the extensive information on the globalist CIA's 9/11 attack on America.
'


Are you saying that this poll is indicating that 1/3 of Americans believe the government carried out 9/11, and the other 2/3 "have little to no opinion", as in they aren't interested enough to offer an opinion? This of course means not one American firmly believes the government wasn't behind the attacks?

Looking at the links you posted (which all appear the exact same story reprinted three times), I didn't see where they state what the other 70% of the population believes. Are you just assuming that they have "little to no interest"?

I'm part of that population, so it appears that would be incorrect.
coughymachine
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]1642418[/snapback]
The authenticity of the sound of the explosion in this video is in question. The explosion is in stereo, which is impossible to capture with a minicam.

If you're once more referring to the guy whose opinion you pointed me to the other day, then ignore the following.

The 'sound of the explosion... is in question'... according to whom? What are their credentials? What are the men in the video reacting to?
coughymachine
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1642555[/snapback]
So? 200 million think it's bunk. That's a hell of a lot more people. And I'd say that a vast majority of those who think it was an inside job have done exactly 0 research into it, and if they did they'd change their minds.

I wonder what percentage of the 200 million have done their research. I understand a simple majority of them don't even know that WTC-7 fell.
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]1642332[/snapback]
Too bad the video was cut off right after that statement. I was hoping Kerry would describe how WTC7 was brought down with explosives that didn't make noise. Further, I'd love to hear his explanation as to how "they" made the north tower fall so that just enough debris would hit WTC7 to make the CD not look so obvious. I'd also like to hear his thoughts as to why "they" considered the CD of WTC7 would be necessary at all, if 9/11 was orchestrated by our government to get us motivated to go to war. Most people didn't even know that it fell, it happened so far after the fact.

Wait, what's this?
Sounds like Kerry might not actually know what he's talking about regarding ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy theories.



Bro seriously what more proof do you need? An official of the Highest ranking said it was demolition, you cannot dispute this any more.
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
QUOTE(EmpressStarXVII @ Apr 23 2007, 03:11 PM) [snapback]1642423[/snapback]
I don't think many will take him seriously.



You don't think many people will take a Top Presidential canadate seriously? Well I would hope people would take him seriously, I sure as hell do. You think he made it up? Did you ever think he may know a little more than the american public?
TK0001
QUOTE(Damon2000 @ Apr 23 2007, 01:51 PM) [snapback]1642705[/snapback]
Bro seriously what more proof do you need? An official of the Highest ranking said it was demolition, you cannot dispute this any more.


Damon, instead of chasing me around, please go back to our previous conversation and answer the questions I asked you.
TK0001
QUOTE(coughymachine @ Apr 23 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]1642689[/snapback]
If you're once more referring to the guy whose opinion you pointed me to the other day, then ignore the following.

The 'sound of the explosion... is in question'... according to whom? What are their credentials? What are the men in the video reacting to?


That is what I'm referring to. I thought it was pretty convincing analysis.
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 05:55 PM) [snapback]1642715[/snapback]
Damon, instead of chasing me around, please go back to our previous conversation and answer the questions I asked you.


I think the only way for you to open you eyes and believe it is for you to build a time machine and witness it first Hand. Who else do you want to say it? Collin Powell? Bush? I mean dude your argument has been proven wrong, this is proof!

Chasing you? You are the only person in here still fighting the battle that is over.....
TK0001
QUOTE(Damon2000 @ Apr 23 2007, 01:54 PM) [snapback]1642713[/snapback]
You don't think many people will take a Top Presidential canadate seriously? Well I would hope people would take him seriously, I sure as hell do. You think he made it up? Did you ever think he may know a little more than the american public?


He referred to a "wall" being pulled down. Have you considered what he was talking about? Do you think it might be possible that he was referring to the pulling down of one of the walls of one of the towers the next day, for the safety of the workers?
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 05:57 PM) [snapback]1642718[/snapback]
That is what I'm referring to. I thought it was pretty convincing analysis.



Your the last soldier in Vietnam that still thinks the war is going on lol
TK0001
QUOTE(Damon2000 @ Apr 23 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]1642721[/snapback]
this is proof!


laugh.gif

Somehow an errant statement by someone who admittedly knows nothing about the situation qualifies as proof, yet the thousands upon thousands of experts who agree that there were no explosives in the buildings are completely ignored.

QUOTE(Damon2000 @ Apr 23 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]1642721[/snapback]
Chasing you? You are the only person in here still fighting the battle that is over.....


How can the battle be over when 200 million Americans don't agree that the government had anything to do with it?
TK0001
QUOTE(Damon2000 @ Apr 23 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]1642726[/snapback]
Your the last soldier in Vietnam that still thinks the war is going on lol


Let me know when the trials start. I'll want to tune in for that.
goofball_mcgee
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 04:25 PM) [snapback]1642544[/snapback]
I said the population is 300 million , and 30% of them feel 9/11 is an inside job

100 million people is a hell of a lot of people, not a fringe movement


That may be what you meant, but you were clearly implying by the way you worded your post that 30% of the population was 300 million people. Please be more clear on what you are saying, use that basic English you were taught in grade school. Also of those 100 million people, how many believe that the government was involved, or believe that the government had more information on the attacks and did nothing to stop them?
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 06:03 PM) [snapback]1642731[/snapback]
laugh.gif

Somehow an errant statement by someone who admittedly knows nothing about the situation qualifies as proof, yet the thousands upon thousands of experts who agree that there were no explosives in the buildings are completely ignored.
How can the battle be over when 200 million Americans don't agree that the government had anything to do with it?



Thousands and thousands of experts?????????? WOW WOW WOW i was not aware if that. You have posted a handful of weak links at best but thousands and thousands of experts are out there voicing there opions right? No unfortunatly you are wrong, there are just as many experts on both sides of this argument.

200 million americans you are citing, probably have no idea about all the contraversy that is surrounding this. Show them all the proof on both sides and I would bet you that the majority would agree the government played a big part.
Enigma wrapped in a puzzle
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1642733[/snapback]
Let me know when the trials start. I'll want to tune in for that.



Huh? I am sorry but that makes no sense.

Can you break it down for me, I may not be at the top level of genious you are.......
TK0001
QUOTE(Damon2000 @ Apr 23 2007, 02:09 PM) [snapback]1642740[/snapback]
Thousands and thousands of experts?????????? WOW WOW WOW i was not aware if that. You have posted a handful of weak links at best but thousands and thousands of experts are out there voicing there opions right? No unfortunatly you are wrong, there are just as many experts on both sides of this argument.


How big is the engineering community, Damon? Have any idea? Last I heard the number is roughly 200,000 strong. Aside from a few crackpots like Judy Wood, the rest are pretty unified that this explosives theory is unplausible and simply didn't happen.

The NIST report has been peer reviewed, meaning it has passed the scrutiny of experts in the engineering field. Peer review may not catch every error, but it certainly comes close. Are you saying you see a mistake that the experts missed? If so, please enlighten us.

QUOTE
Huh? I am sorry but that makes no sense.

Can you break it down for me, I may not be at the top level of genious you are.......


You said the war was over. If so, then I guess the perpetrators will be brought to court to receive their trial. I was just wondering when that will start.
Harte
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]1642462[/snapback]
a recent 2006 poll indicates 30% of Americans think 9/11 was an inside job

QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 12:09 PM) [snapback]1642616[/snapback]
wait a minute here. 100 million think 9/11 was an inside job
there is no poll that says the others 'think its bunk' . is there? All it indicates is that the other two thirds have little to no opinion on it.


From the first link:
QUOTE
More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.

No, it doesn't indicate what the other two-thirds think. Nor does it indicate which of the one-third think it's an inside job and which think the government puposefully took no protective action. So from this poll we can conclusively say only that about a third of those polled feel that the government did not do all it could conceive of to protect the WTC from terrorist attacks.

Remember, about 10 percent of the population have been clinically diagnosed as mentally ill.
Here's a quote I found to be amusing in a vague way, it's from your second link:
QUOTE
Members of racial and ethnic minorities, people with only a high school education and Democrats were especially likely to suspect federal involvement in 9/11.


Harte
thunkerdrone
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]1642758[/snapback]
Aside from a few crackpots like Judy Wood, the rest are pretty unified that this explosives theory is unplausible and simply didn't happen.


Get real. One hundred million Americans think 9/11 was an inside job, and almost NONE of them are engineers?
You can bet there A LOT of engineers who have seen what happens to the careers of engineers and other professionals who dare voice their views on 9/11openly:

QUOTE
http://www.wanttoknow.info/911kevinrryanfired

South Bend firm's lab director fired after questioning federal probe

By JOHN DOBBERSTEIN
Tribune Staff Writer

SOUTH BEND -- Environmental Health Laboratories Inc. director has been fired for attempting to cast doubt on the federal investigation into what caused the World Trade Center's twin towers to collapse on Sept. 11, 2001.

Kevin R. Ryan was terminated Tuesday from his job at Environmental Health Laboratories Inc., a subsidiary of Underwriters Laboratories Inc., the consumer-product safety testing giant.

On Nov. 11, Ryan wrote a letter to the National Institute of Standards and Technology -- the agency probing the collapse -- challenging the common theory that burning jet fuel weakened the steel supports holding up the 110-story skyscrapers.

Underwriters Laboratories Inc., according to Ryan, "was the company that certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings."

Ryan wrote that last year, while "requesting information," UL's chief executive officer and fire protection business manager disagreed about key issues surrounding the collapse, "except for one thing -- that the samples we certified met all requirements."

UL vehemently denied last week that it ever certified the materials.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology is conducting a $16 million, two-year investigation of the collapse of the twin towers. The agency expects to issue a draft report in January, and UL has played a limited role in the investigation.

Ryan wrote that the institute's preliminary reports suggest the WTC's supports were probably exposed to fires no hotter than 500 degrees -- only half the 1,100-degree temperature needed to forge steel, Ryan said. That's also much cooler, he wrote, than the 3,000 degrees needed to melt bare steel with no fire-proofing.

"This story just does not add up," Ryan wrote in his e-mail to Frank Gayle, deputy chief of the institute's metallurgy division, who is playing a prominent role in the agency investigation. "If steel from those buildings did soften or melt, I'm sure we can all agree that this was certainly not due to jet fuel fires of any kind, let alone the briefly burning fires in those towers."

He added, "Alternatively, the contention that this steel did fail at temperatures around (500 degrees) suggests that the majority of deaths on 9/11 were due to a safety-related failure. That suggestion should be of great concern to my company."

Ryan declined to comment about his letter Thursday when reached at his South Bend home.

But his allegations drew a sharp rebuke from UL, which said Ryan wrote the letter "without UL's knowledge or authorization." The company told The Tribune "there is no evidence" that any firm tested the materials used to build the towers.

"UL does not certify structural steel, such as the beams, columns and trusses used in World Trade Center," said Paul M. Baker, the company's spokesman.

Ryan was fired, Baker said, because he "expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL."

"The contents of the argument itself are spurious at best, and frankly, they're just wrong," Baker said.

Seeking to head off controversy just months before its report is released, the National Institute of Standards and Technology issued its own statement Thursday.

Some steel recovered from the WTC was exposed to fires of only 400 to 600 degrees, the institute said, but computer modeling has shown higher temperatures of 1,100 to 1,300 degrees or greater were "likely" experienced by steel in regions directly affected by the fires.

The institute believes impact from the jets dislodged fireproofing surrounding some of the steel, and the higher temperatures led to the buckling of the towers' core columns.
Wrangling on the Web

Ryan's statements have generated interest on many Web sites, including some advocating sharp scrutiny of the federal government's WTC probe.

Ryan copied his e-mail to David Ray Griffin, author of "The New Pearl Harbor," and to Catherine Austin Fitts, a board member of 911Truth.org -- a Web site organized by citizens who believe the government is covering up the true cause of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

One day later, Griffin requested and received permission to distribute Ryan's letter to other parties.

An official from 911Truth.org called Ryan to confirm his authorship. They said Ryan made it clear he is speaking for himself only, not on behalf of his laboratory or the company, but that others at UL were aware of his action.

The letter was published Nov. 11 on the Web site

septembereleventh.org, site of the 9/11 Visibility Project. On Tuesday, organizers of the 911Truth.org Web site noted Ryan had been fired.

In his letter, Ryan appeared confident in his statements about the WTC's fire protection levels.

"You may know that there are a number of current and former government employees that have risked a great deal to help us to know the truth," he told the institute's Gayle. "Please do what you can to quickly eliminate the confusion regarding the ability of jet fuel fires to soften or melt structural steel."

UL moved immediately to discredit Ryan.

The company said Ryan "was not involved in that work and was not associated in any way with UL's Fire Protection Division, which conducted testing at NIST's request."

The company said it "fully supports NIST's ongoing efforts to investigate the WTC tragedy. We regret any confusion that Mr. Ryan's letter has caused 9/11 survivors, victims' families and their friends."

"We prefer to base our conclusions, and NIST would say the same, on science rather than speculation," Baker said. "We anxiously await the outcome of the NIST investigation."

Organizers of 911Truth.org came to Ryan's defense Thursday, although they couldn't persuade him to speak publicly.

"He just saw too many contradictions, and it set off his sense of what was the right thing to do," said David Kubiak, 911Truth.org's executive director. "It's unfortunate for the country, and it's particularly tragic for him, but inspiring as hell."

"The way things are working in the country right now," Kubiak added, "it's only going to be citizens like this who take their professional knowledge and sense of personal integrity, and put it ahead of the strange status quo, that we will see truth and justice out of the system."

Staff writer John Dobberstein:
jdobberstein@sbtinfo.com
(574) 235-6187
phunk
You would bring up Kevin Ryan...

Your article says exactly why he was fired:

QUOTE
Ryan was fired, Baker said, because he "expressed his own opinions as though they were institutional opinions and beliefs of UL."


He didn't even work in the division that would have done the testing he falsely claims that UL performed. He made up some BS, stuck UL's name on it without authorization, and they fired him for it.
coughymachine
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 23 2007, 06:57 PM) [snapback]1642718[/snapback]
That is what I'm referring to. I thought it was pretty convincing analysis.

I'm sure you do, but I don't, if only because the guys in the film are clearly responding with some alarm to a noise, which emanates from behind the cameraman.
Redtail
QUOTE(coughymachine @ Apr 24 2007, 02:09 AM) [snapback]1643370[/snapback]
I'm sure you do, but I don't, if only because the guys in the film are clearly responding with some alarm to a noise, which emanates from behind the cameraman.


Responding to a noise yes, responding to explosions large enough to take out WTC7 with just 2 shots, no.
el midgetron
Kerrys probably going to have to get naked and lay in a coffin again while he gets the offical story straight.

badeskov
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 12:53 PM) [snapback]1642895[/snapback]
Get real. One hundred million Americans think 9/11 was an inside job, and almost NONE of them are engineers?


By all means of respect, but I find this particular quote very saying in this respect. Why is it that the engineers, who would actually have the knowledge to analyze this, do not find anything wrong with the official explanation? And we go to...

QUOTE
You can bet there A LOT of engineers who have seen what happens to the careers of engineers and other professionals who dare voice their views on 9/11openly:


I wouldn't bet the national fortune just yet. In my honest opinion, engineers are not afraid of voicing their opinion; they are in the position of having the knowledge to actually decipher the theories voiced and somehow lean towards the official explanation. Why? Because that is the most plausible explanation. The rest of the explanations (mainly conspiracy theories) are so full of holes and rely on complete unrealistic premises that they basically negate themselves.

Just my 2 cents.

Best,
Badeskov
coughymachine
QUOTE(Redtail @ Apr 24 2007, 04:09 AM) [snapback]1643433[/snapback]
Responding to a noise yes, responding to explosions large enough to take out WTC7 with just 2 shots, no.

This discussion isn't about the nature of the noise, just whether there was one or not. If there was, as I believe there was, and if it was authentically portrayed in the video, as I believe it was, we're still none the wiser as to the cause.
thunkerdrone
QUOTE(phunk @ Apr 23 2007, 03:33 PM) [snapback]1642969[/snapback]
You would bring up Kevin Ryan...

Your article says exactly why he was fired:
He didn't even work in the division that would have done the testing he falsely claims that UL performed. He made up some BS, stuck UL's name on it without authorization, and they fired him for it.


The article is misleading and inaccurate. Here is what really happened:


QUOTE
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060327100957690

The Point of Origin: The Collapse of the WTC


Many have found that the 9/11 Commission not only failed to help us understand what happened; it also omitted or distorted most of the facts.2 But if we really want to zero in on the exact turning point around which we plunged into chaos, we need to focus in particular on the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings. This is where our hearts were wrenched and our minds were made ready for never-ending war, torture, and apparently the end of everything that was American. If we are ever to emerge from this insanity, we need to know how three tall buildings collapsed due to fire, all on the same day, when no such thing has ever happened before.

The Twin Towers and Why They Fell
It would help to begin with an accurate description of the WTC towers in terms of quality of design and construction. In July of 1971, the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) presented a national award judging the buildings to be "the engineering project that demonstrates the greatest engineering skills and represents the greatest contribution to engineering progress and mankind."3 Others noted that "the World Trade Center towers would have an inherent capacity to resist unforeseen calamities." This capacity stemmed from the use of special high-strength steels. In particular, the perimeter columns were designed with tremendous reserve strength whereby "live loads on these columns can be increased more than 2,000% before failure occurs."4

One would expect that any explanation for the destruction of such buildings would need to be very solid as well. Four years after 9/11, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) finally did give us their version of "why and how" two of the buildings collapsed, but its explanation may be even less effective than the 9/11 Commission report.5 Now that the official story has been given, however, we can see just how weak and ill-defined our basis for this War on Terror has been all along. Additionally, we can track the evolution of official comments about collapse and see who was involved.

Selling the Official Story: Some Key Players

Shankar Nair, whose statement quoted above is quite telling, was one of those "experts" on whom the government depended to support what turned out to be an ever-changing, but always flimsy, story. Many of the scientists involved in the investigation were asked to examine ancillary issues, like escape routes and other emergency response factors. But those few who attempted to explain what really needed explaining, the unique events of fire-induced collapse, appear to have engaged in what can only be called anti-science. That is, they started with their conclusions and worked backward to some "leading hypotheses."
Not surprisingly, many of the contractors who contributed to the NIST investigation, like the company for which Nair works, just happen to depend on good relationships with the government in order to earn their living. What may be a surprise is just how lucrative these relationships can be. For example, Nair's company, Teng & Associates, boasts of Indefinite Quantity Contracts, long-term relationships with federal government agencies, and federal projects worth in excess of $40 million.6

Others who worked so hard to maintain the official story included Gene Corley, a concrete construction expert listed by the National Directory of Expert Witnesses as a source for litigation testimony.7 Corley was more than just a witness, however. He had led the Oklahoma City bombing investigation and then was asked to lead the initial ASCE investigation into the WTC disaster. Perhaps someone else, with less experience in bombings and more experience in fires, would have been a better choice. But without authority to save samples or even obtain blueprints, the ASCE investigation was ineffective anyway. Corley himself ended up being a very versatile resource, however, providing testimony supporting the pre-determined conclusions many times, and even posing as a reporter during an NIST media session.8

There was really no need for phony media coverage. As with The 9/11 Commission Report and the lead-up to the Iraq War, the major media simply parroted any explanations, or non-explanations, given in support of the official story. One example is from a television program called "The Anatomy of September 11th," which aired on the History Channel. Corley took the lead on this one as well, but James Glanz, a New York Times reporter, was also interviewed and helped to spread what is probably the worst excuse for collapse given. He told us that the fires heated the steel columns so much (the video suggested 2500 F) that they were turned into "licorice." Other self-proclaimed experts have been heard promoting similar theories.9 They will probably come to regret it.

This is because the results of physical tests performed by NIST's own Frank Gayle proved this theory to be a ridiculous exaggeration, as some people already knew. The temperatures seen by the few steel samples saved, only about 500 F, were far too low to soften, let alone melt, even un-fireproofed steel. Of course that result could have been calculated, knowing that 4,000 gallons of jet fuel10 ---not 24,000 gallons or 10,000 gallons, as some reports have claimed---were sprayed into an open-air environment over several floors, each comprised of more than 1,000 metric tons of concrete and steel.

Another expert who served on NIST's advisory committee was Charles Thornton, of the engineering firm Thornton and Tomasetti. Thornton's partner, Richard Tomasetti, was reported to be behind the unprecedented and widely criticized decision to destroy most of the steel evidence.11 Early on Thornton said: "Karl, we all know what caused the collapse." He was talking to Karl Koch, whose company erected the WTC steel. Koch attempted to clarify as follows. "I could see it in my mind's eye: The fire burned until the steel was weakened and the floors above collapsed, starting a chain reaction of gravity, floor falling upon floor upon floor, clunk ñ clunk ñ clunk, the load gaining weight and momentum by the nanosecond, unstoppable. Once enough floors collapsed, the exterior walls and the core columns were no longer laterally supported and folded in."12 This is a description of what was called the Pancake Theory, the most widely accepted version of what happened.

The Pancake Theory was promoted by an influential 2002 NOVA video called "Why the Towers Fell," in which Corley (yet again) and Thornton were the primary commentators. Both of them talked about the floors collapsing, and Thornton described how the perimeter columns buckled outward, not inward as Koch had described. The video made a number of false claims, including exaggeration of the temperatures (2000 F), remarks about melting steel, and the incredible statement that two-thirds of the columns in WTC1 (the North Tower) were completely severed. NIST's report now indicates that only about 14% of the columns in WTC1 were severed, and in some photos we can count most of these for ourselves.13


NIST and Underwriters Laboratories


In August 2004, Underwriters Laboratories evaluated the Pancake Theory by testing models of the floor assemblies used in the WTC buildings. Despite all the previous expert testimony, the floor models did not collapse. NIST reported this in its October 2004 update, in a table of results that clearly showed that the floors did not fail and that, therefore, pancaking was not possible.14 NIST more succinctly stated this again in its June 2005 draft report, saying: "The results established that this type of assembly was capable of sustaining a large gravity load, without collapsing, for a substantial period of time relative to the duration of the fires in any given location on September 11th."15

At the time of the floor tests, I worked for Underwriters Laboratories (UL). I was very interested in the progress of these tests, having already asked some sensitive questions. My interest began when UL's CEO, Loring Knoblauch, a very experienced executive with a law degree from Harvard, surprised us at the company's South Bend location, just a few weeks after 9/11, by saying that UL had certified the steel used in the WTC buildings. Knoblauch told us that we should all be proud that the buildings had stood for so long under such intense conditions. In retrospect it is clear that all of us, including Knoblauch, were ignorant of many important facts surrounding 9/11 and did not, therefore, see his statements as particularly important.

Over the next two years, however, I learned more about the issues, like the unprecedented destruction of the steel evidence and the fact that no tall steel-frame buildings have ever collapsed due to fire. And I saw video of the owner of the buildings, stating publicly that he and the fire department made the decision to "pull"---that is, to demolish---WTC7 that day,16 even though demolition requires many weeks of planning and preparation. Perhaps most compelling for me were the words of a genuine expert on the WTC. This was John Skilling, the structural engineer responsible for designing the towers.17 (The NOVA video, incidentally, gave this credit to Leslie Robertson. But Robertson, who never claimed to have originated the design, was only a junior member of the firm [Worthington, Skilling, Helle and Jackson], and Skilling was known at the time to be the engineer in charge.) In 1993, five years before his death, Skilling said that he had performed an analysis on jet plane crashes and the ensuing fires and that "the building structure would still be there."18

By 2003, all of this information was available to anyone who cared. The details were, without a doubt, difficult to reconcile with testimony from officials, reporters, and scientists who were supporting the official story. But in November of that year, I felt that answers from UL were needed. If, as our CEO had suggested, our company had tested samples of steel components and listed the results in the UL Fire Resistance Directory almost forty years ago, Mr. Skilling would have depended on these results to ensure that the buildings were sufficiently fire resistant. So I sent a formal written message to our chief executive, outlining my thoughts and asking what he was doing to protect our reputation.

Knoblauch's written response contained several points. He wrote: "We test to the code requirements, and the steel clearly met those requirements and exceeded them." He pointed to the NYC code used at the time of the WTC construction, which required fire resistance times of 3 hours for building columns, and 2 hours for floors. From the start, his answers were not helping to explain fire-induced collapse in 56 minutes (the time it took WTC2, the South Tower, to come down). But he did give a better explanation of UL's involvement in testing the WTC steel, even talking about the quality of the sample and how well it did. "We tested the steel with all the required fireproofing on," he wrote, "and it did beautifully."19

This response was copied to several UL executives, including Tom Chapin, the manager of UL's Fire Protection division. Chapin reminded me that UL was the "leader in fire research testing," but he clearly did not want to make any commitments on the issue. He talked about the floor assemblies, how these had not been UL tested, and he made the misleading claim that UL does not certify structural steel. But even an introductory textbook lists UL as one of the few important organizations supporting codes and specifications because they "produce a Fire Resistance Index with hourly ratings for beams, columns, floors, roofs, walls and partitions tested in accordance with ASTM Standard E119."20 He went on to clarify that UL tests assemblies of which steel is a component. This is a bit like saying "we don't crash test the car door, we crash test the whole car." In any case, Chapin suggested that we be patient and wait for the report from NIST, because the investigation into the "collapse of WTC buildings 1, 2, and 7" was an ongoing process and that "UL is right in the middle of these activities."21

For the most part, I did wait, although I shared my concerns with Chapin again at UL's Leadership Summit in January 2004. I encouraged him to ask for a company news release on our position, but this did not happen and I never heard from him again. By the time UL tested the floor assembly models in August of that year, I had been promoted to the top management job in my division, Environmental Health Laboratories, overseeing all company functions. Two months later, NIST released an official update that included the floor test results, as well as Frank Gayle's results, in which steel temperatures were predicted. These results clearly invalidated the major theories of collapse, because pancaking could not occur without floor collapse and steel does not turn to licorice at the temperatures discussed.

After reviewing this update, I sent a letter directly to Dr. Gayle at NIST. In this letter, I referred to my experiences at UL and asked for more information on the WTC investigation and NIST's soon-to-be-published conclusions. NIST had planned at the time to release its final report in December, with time allowed for public comment. After I allowed my letter to become public,22 this date was moved to January 2005, and then nothing was heard from NIST for several months.

Other than UL's involvement in testing the steel components, the facts I stated had all been reported publicly, but when I put them together plainly, they were considered outrageous. Five days after I sent my letter, I was fired by UL for doing so. The company made a few brief statements in an attempt to discredit me, then quickly began to make it clear that its relationship with the government, perhaps due to its tax-exempt status, was more important than its commitment to public safety.

For example, in spite of Tom Chapin's previous statements, UL suggested that it had played only a "limited" role in the investigation. Despite what our CEO, Loring Knoblauch, had written and copied to several executives, UL said there was "no evidence" that any firm had tested the steel used in the WTC buildings.23 In doing so, UL implied that its CEO not only had fabricated this story about testing the WTC steel but had also spoken and written about it for several years without anyone in the company correcting him. As I see it, the only other option was that the company claiming to be our "Public Safety Guardian" was lying to us about the most important safety issue of our lives.

My experiences give a taste for the delicate nature of our critical turning point. But to keep our focus, we should examine what NIST did with the results of its physical tests, which had failed to support its conclusions. Did NIST perform more tests, at least to prove its key argument that much of the fireproofing on the steel in the Twin Towers popped off due to the impact of the airliners? No, it did not. Instead, NIST put together a black box computer model that would spit out the right answers. This black box model was driven by initial parameters that could be tweaked. When the parameters that had initially been considered "realistic" did not generate results that "compared to observed events," NIST scientists performed their final analysis using another set of parameters they called "more severe."24 When they were finished, their model produced video graphics that would enable anyone to see the buildings collapse without having to follow a train of logic to get there.

Tom Chapin of UL was one of those doomed to make public comments in support of NIST's final report. His comments were innocuous enough but he did hint at something of value. "The effect of scale of test assemblies...," Chapin said, "requires more investigation."25 This may be the closest thing to a straightforward statement that we will ever see from UL on the matter. But it seems clear enough that results showing zero floor collapse, when scaled-up from the floor panels to a few floors, would still result in zero floor collapse. Perhaps a more direct version of Chapin's comment might be that test results negating predetermined conclusions should not be used to prove them.

Other than the video, NIST left us with only some vague statements about a few sagging floors suddenly destroying two hundred super-strong perimeter columns and forty core columns. But since sagging floors do not weigh more than non-sagging floors, it is difficult to see how this might occur, especially so uniformly. NIST claimed the perimeter columns saw increased loads of between 0 and 25% due to the damage, but it never reconciled this with the original claim that these columns could resist 2000% increases in live load. And the outward-buckling theory, suggested by Thornton, was changed again to inward buckling---apparently the forces involved were never well defined. Additionally, NIST suggested that the documents that would support testing of the steel components, along with documents containing Skilling's jet-fuel-fire analysis, could not be found.26

Ultimately, NIST failed to give any explanation for the dynamics of the towers as they fell, about how and why they dropped like rocks in free-fall. For both buildings, NIST simply stated that "once the upper building section began to move downwards . . ., global collapse ensued," as if just saying so was enough.27 As for WTC7, NIST as of yet has not elaborated on its "working collapse hypothesis," which was vaguely presented in June 2004.28 The bottom line is that, after more than four years, it is still impossible for the government even to begin to explain the primary events that drive this War on Terrorism.

So much has been sacrificed, and so much has been invested in this story, that we all have a need for supportive answers. But when we look for those answers, all our "mind's eye" can see is this smoky black box, where scientific results are reversed to support politically correct, pre-determined conclusions. That critical point of divergence, where our lives were turned upside down and all logic followed, has always been too painful to imagine. But now, without expert accounts of pancaking floors and licorice steel, it cannot be imagined at all.

Some of us remain hopeful that we can still achieve a critical mass awareness of the need for truth, and in doing so pull the support out from under what John McMurtry calls "the 9/11 Wars."29 But if we cannot, even as the hopes for peace fade and the number of 9/11 families continues to grow, we should remember how we got this story and how it was propped up despite all the evidence against it. Because whatever happens next, after the smoke clears, our children may have a need to know.

NOTES

[1] Richard Heinberg, "Gˆtterd‰mmerung," Museletter, No.144, March 2004 (http://www.museletter.com/archive/144.html).

[2] David Ray Griffin, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions (Northampton: Interlink Books, 2005). Griffin summarizes the omissions and distortions in "The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie," 911 Visibility Project, May 22, 2005 (http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2005-05-22-571pglie.php).

[3] Angus K. Gillespie, Twin Towers: The Life of New York City's World Trade Center (New Brunswick, N.J.: Rutgers University Press 1999), 117.

[4] "How Columns Will Be Designed for 110-Story Buildings," Engineering News-Record, April 2, 1964: 48-49.

[5] Jim Hoffman, "Building a Better Mirage: NIST's 3-Year $20,000,000 Cover-Up of the Crime of the Century," 911Research.wtc7.net, December 8, 2005 (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html).

[6] Website for Teng & Associates (http://www.teng.com/teng2k3/mainframe.asp).

[7] Website for National Directory of Expert Witnesses (http://national-experts.com/members2/witness.asp?d_memnum=07572&d_lnum=2).

[8] Archived webcast video of NIST press briefing, NIST News Release website, June 23, 2005 (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_briefing_june2305.htm), 01:15:10.

[9] Sheila Barter, "How the World Trade Center Fell," BBC News, September 13, 2001 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1540044.stm).

[10] Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA), "World Trade Center Building Performance Study," May 2005, Chapter 2.

[11] James Glanz and Eric Lipton, City in the Sky: The Rise and Fall of the World Trade Center (New York: Times Books, 2003), 330.

[12] Karl Koch III with Richard Firstman, Men of Steel: The Story of the Family that Built the World Trade Center (New York: Crown Publishers, 2002), 365.

[13] Eric Hufschmid, Painful Questions: An Analysis of the September 11th Attack (Goleta, Calif.: Endpoint Software, 2002), 27.

[14] Table of results from Underwriters Laboratories August 2004 floor model tests, as presented by NIST in October 2004 (http://wtc.nist.gov/media/P6StandardFireTestsforWeb.pdf), 25.

[15] NIST, Final Report of the National Construction Safety Team on the Collapses of the World Trade Center Towers(Draft) (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1draft.pdf), 195.

[16] Silverstein's statement is contained in "America Rebuilds," PBS documentary, 2002 (www.pbs.org/americarebuilds). It can be viewed (www.infowars.com/Video/911/wtc7_pbs.WMV) or heard on audio file (http://VestigialConscience.com/PullIt.mp3).

[17] "Structures Can Be Beautiful, World's Tallest Buildings Pose Esthetic and Structural Challenge to John Skilling," Engineering News-Record, April 2, 1964: 124.

[18] Glanz and Lipton, City in the Sky, 138.

[19] Underwriters Laboratories email correspondence, December 1, 2003.

[20] Samuel H. Marcus, Basics of Structural Steel (Reston, Va.: Reston Publishing 1977), 20.

[21] Underwriters Laboratories email correspondence, December 1, 2003.

[22] Kevin Ryan, "The Collapse of the WTC," 911 Visibility Project, November 11, 2004 (http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2004-11-11-ryan.php).

[23] John Dobberstein, "Area Man Stirs Debate on WTC Collapse," South Bend Tribune, November 22, 2004 (http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041124095100856).

[24] NIST, Final Report, 196.

[25] Comments from Underwriters Laboratories on NIST WTC report, NIST website (http://wtc.nist.gov/comments/ULI_Ganesh_Rao_8-5-05.pdf).

[26] Archived webcast video of NIST press briefing, NIST News Release website, June 23, 2005 (http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/releases/wtc_briefing_june2305.htm), 01:18:50.

[27] NIST, Final Report, 197.

[28] NIST presentation on WTC7 collapse investigation, NIST website (http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/June2004WTC7StructuralFire&CollapseAnalysisPrint.pdf).

[29] John McMurtry, "9/11 and the 9/11 Wars: Understanding the Supreme Crimes." In David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott, eds., 9/11 and the American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out (Northampton: Interlink Books, 2006). My present essay will also appear in this volume.

Unlimited
QUOTE(el midgetron @ Apr 24 2007, 06:27 AM) [snapback]1643586[/snapback]
Kerrys probably going to have to get naked and lay in a coffin again while he gets the offical story straight.


and you know what they do while in the coffin...while fantasizing about perpetual war....then maybe get out; and slaughter some doves for fun....I heard that was gw's favorite part of membership....
TK0001
QUOTE(coughymachine @ Apr 24 2007, 06:26 AM) [snapback]1643670[/snapback]
This discussion isn't about the nature of the noise, just whether there was one or not. If there was, as I believe there was, and if it was authentically portrayed in the video, as I believe it was, we're still none the wiser as to the cause.


It's quite about the noise. If the noise was faked, it's pretty embarrassing to the CT side. Why would they have to resort to inserting fake noises into videos if their case was so iron-clad? Smacks of desperation to me.

You seem to be a rational guy - why are you just assuming it's authentic without investigating it? And if you have looked into it - what about the analysis do you not agree with?
TK0001
Still wading through thunker's article, but this part at the beginning of it borders on stupidity:

QUOTE
If we are ever to emerge from this insanity, we need to know how three tall buildings collapsed due to fire, all on the same day, when no such thing has ever happened before.


Will they ever stop with the straw man arguments? Aren't they getting just a bit stale and played out by now? At this point (nearly 6 years later) there can be no doubt that the author is deliberately attempting to deceive when he says something like this.
thunkerdrone
QUOTE(TK0001 @ Apr 24 2007, 11:35 AM) [snapback]1644138[/snapback]
Still wading through thunker's article, but this part at the beginning of it borders on stupidity:
Will they ever stop with the straw man arguments? Aren't they getting just a bit stale and played out by now? At this point (nearly 6 years later) there can be no doubt that the author is deliberately attempting to deceive when he says something like this.


There is no doubt that he was one of the first honest and courageous enough to come forward and blow the whistle. His actions encouraged many scholars and experts to come forward and form Scholars for 9/11 Truth. http://stj911.org/

It is impossible for WTC7 to have fallen perfectly symmetrically at freefall speed due to fire. Buildings are not that fragile. There is no way on earth that a building that flimsy
would have been allowed to be constructed on such a scale. Its design was state of the art. Buildings like this survive earthquakes and tornados.
Miami is built in a hurricane zone. Southern Californian cities are built on earthquake zones. These cities stand today having withstood extreme and disastrous conditions.
Skyscrapers are built to code, certified subject to testing, regulations , etc.
WTC7 was not even hit by a plane. It sustained minor damage due to falling debris. It was not even beside WTCI and WTCII. There was a building between them that was
not even knocked down. Yet WTC7, a collosally framed steel structure, seven hours later, suddenly decides to implode into dust and defy physics in the speed with which it fell,
and mysteriously has molten steel pooled in its basement for weeks afterward.
The fact that it was six years ago has absolutely nothing to do with this. It is a matter of determining who was really responsible for the horror inflicted on the innocent
in New York that day, and it is obvious that the occult elite of psychopaths known as the CIA and its directors are responsible.
Redtail
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 24 2007, 05:31 PM) [snapback]1644234[/snapback]
There is no doubt that he was one of the first honest and courageous enough to come forward and blow the whistle. His actions encouraged many scholars and experts to come forward and form Scholars for 9/11 Truth. http://stj911.org/

It is impossible for WTC7 to have fallen perfectly symmetrically at freefall speed due to fire. Buildings are not that fragile. There is no way on earth that a building that flimsy
would have been allowed to be constructed on such a scale. Its design was state of the art. Buildings like this survive earthquakes and tornados.
Miami is built in a hurricane zone. Southern Californian cities are built on earthquake zones. These cities stand today having withstood extreme and disastrous conditions.
Skyscrapers are built to code, certified subject to testing, regulations , etc.
WTC7 was not even hit by a plane. It sustained minor damage due to falling debris. It was not even beside WTCI and WTCII. There was a building between them that was
not even knocked down. Yet WTC7, a collosally framed steel structure, seven hours later, suddenly decides to implode into dust and defy physics in the speed with which it fell,
and mysteriously has molten steel pooled in its basement for weeks afterward.
The fact that it was six years ago has absolutely nothing to do with this. It is a matter of determining who was really responsible for the horror inflicted on the innocent
in New York that day, and it is obvious that the occult elite of psychopaths known as the CIA and its directors are responsible.

Minor?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l131/Ign...gecomposite.jpglinked-image
TK0001
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 24 2007, 01:31 PM) [snapback]1644234[/snapback]
There is no doubt that he was one of the first honest and courageous enough to come forward and blow the whistle. His actions encouraged many scholars and experts to come forward and form Scholars for 9/11 Truth. http://stj911.org/


The Scholars are falling apart at the seams, by the way. They just can't agree on their theories.

QUOTE
It is impossible for WTC7 to have fallen perfectly symmetrically at freefall speed due to fire.


Totally agreed. And since no one believes that it did, you have created a straw man argument. Congrats.

ETA: thunker, please answer the following: Do you honestly believe that the official story is that all three buildings fell due to fire alone?
postbaguk
QUOTE(thunkerdrone @ Apr 23 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]1642308[/snapback]
linked-image
Brief video of John Kerry's interview during appearance at Book People in Austin, Texas. Admits that the WTC7 building was intentionally brought down in a controlled demolition.

linked-image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn4Yx1MTgfQ
Add John Kerry to the rest of the fools that Slipped UP!
1. Bush saw the first plane hit live on tv:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=48...tower&hl=en (1min)

2. Rumsfeld Says Flight 93 was shot down:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=71...+down&hl=en (30sec)

3. Rumsfeld Says Missle Hit Pentagon - "Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center"
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%2...-Flight-77.html

4. NYC Mayor Slips-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hNmf76GUCw

5. Silverstein Admitted Bombs Brought down WTC7
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...rry+silverstein

6. Bush is scared.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K5M0xtxQVQ


Just some quick observations.

Firstly, Kerry did not "admit" to a controlled demolition - it's just his opinion (his last sentence starts "I think that...")

The other videos....

1. Strange. If my memory serves me right, the first crash was shown on the first day. I could be mistaken on this. There again, Bush could be mistaken with his recollection. Hell, he's mistaken in plenty of over things.

2. Yeah, he did say shot down the plane. The woman looked to her left. Could she have been thinking "What's he on about?" Maybe it was shot down, I don't know. Maybe this was a genuine slip of the tongue. Maybe it was a simple mistake.

3. Haven't seen the actual video only the transcript. Could be a gaffe. Is he prone to them? Or did he really mean missile?

4. Was he referring to WTC1&2 or WTC7? It was known for some time that WTC7 was going to collapse. Is it ossible or impossible that he could have had a report that WTC1or2 might collapse?

5. Silverstein did NOT admit that bombs brough down WTC7 in the clip you linked to. Bombs were never even mentioned, so I don't know why you chose to. He said the decision was made to "pull the building". The only reference I've seen this used in building demolition terms is to physically pulll a building down using cables (this happened some weeks later to another badly damaged WTC building). Outside of 911, I've never seen any reference to "pulling a building" meaning to demolish the building. Pulling the fire rescue teams makes far more sense to me.

6. He may well be scared, but I saw nothing in that video to prove that suggestion. If it IS true that 100 million Americans think 911 was an inside job (a figure I'm not convinced by), then it'sonly natural he take the conspiracy theories seriously, regardless of whather it was an inside job or not.

Just my tuppence worth. I'm not from the US, I'm from the UK. I strongly dislike Bush and his policies. I don't think 911 was an inside job, but there are some things I don't have an explanation for. I don't consider this evidence in favour of an inside job - I see it as something that is unexplained. Problem with the 911 theories, there are so many ridiculous ones it's hard to see the wood for the trees.

Just my tuppence worth.
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