Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Please, no religion at the dinner table...

lil gremlin

Apr 27 2007, 12:20 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

what a turn up!!!

well this may be the end of the group, or it may clear the air somewhat. It may be now that the core of genuine folk can continue to meet and be a little more open and tolerant of eachother.
it seems the best resolution to the problem, and everybody thinks your weird for having no skeletons LOL.

well for me its been a thrilling ride, thank you shadow for sharing this with us.
what a hippocrite! it goes to show that some of the too good to be true, pompous, pontificating types are the most messed up.

i for one also appreciated truethat's input, adding a pov that was valuable...her questioning (like the 'bad cop') allowed for a balanced picture to emerge.

btw true that , you might not have met nutters like this in life but i can assure you i have met a number in my years....when i was at Aberystwyth uni i lived at the Theological college for a term or so, it was like living at hogwarts, an awesome building....anyhoo i met some lovely christians there (not christian myself) but also a few right fruitcakes, if you didnt believe shadow's story you'll never believe mine. I moved out of there to live upcampus closer to my lectures etc. but a friend of mine liked it there so much he stayed for 2 years...thinking about it i spent so much time there i might just have well stayed. they were a fun crowd, but i would say that at least 3 in 10 were so odd, a few positively certifyable...one or two id never leave alone with sharp impliments or vulnerable folk.

That may just reflect theology students....ive met a few crazy psychology students too mind u.
so i wouldnt be too quick to call her story incredible, your seriously telling me youve never met any wako folk with religious zeal foaming at their mouths?
but you live in america dont u? is that not the home of the most hated family? the KKK? and other various fruityloops?

Shadow_Hill

Apr 27 2007, 12:34 AM

QUOTE(lil gremlin @ Apr 27 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1648092[/snapback]

It may be now that the core of genuine folk can continue to meet and be a little more open and tolerant of eachother.

That would be nice... maybe after the wounds have healed a bit.

QUOTE(lil gremlin @ Apr 27 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1648092[/snapback]

it seems the best resolution to the problem, and everybody thinks your weird for having no skeletons LOL.

I've got 'em... they just weren't as interesting as everyone else's. But yes, they do think I'm a bit odd apparently.

QUOTE(lil gremlin @ Apr 27 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1648092[/snapback]

i would say that at least 3 in 10 were so odd, a few positively certifyable...one or two id never leave alone with sharp impliments or vulnerable folk.

Sounds like we've known the same people.

Makes for an interesting time.

SilverCougar

Apr 27 2007, 12:58 AM

True...

You're falling back to your old habbit of being rude to others, then throwing a fit when people don't react well to it.

truethat

Apr 27 2007, 01:05 AM

I'm not throwing a fit Silver. I just don't care if you think I'm rude.

I know that sounds witchy but its just a message board. I honestly don't care. Some days I try really to be polite and others I can't be bothered to have to try. I think most people have their ups and downs as well.

No one forces a person to post. When you put something out there like this, in a debate forum, not a blog and not a regular thread but a purposeful thread that's pretty much designed as some sort of propaganda be prepared to be called on it.

I don't expect people to treat me with kid gloves either. I'm an adult and can take a bit of criticism. Heck I can take a lot of it really because most cases are just people having an up or down day.

No worries.

truethat

Apr 27 2007, 01:11 AM

QUOTE(lil gremlin @ Apr 27 2007, 12:20 AM) [snapback]1648092[/snapback]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

what a turn up!!!

well this may be the end of the group, or it may clear the air somewhat. It may be now that the core of genuine folk can continue to meet and be a little more open and tolerant of eachother.
it seems the best resolution to the problem, and everybody thinks your weird for having no skeletons LOL.

well for me its been a thrilling ride, thank you shadow for sharing this with us.
what a hippocrite! it goes to show that some of the too good to be true, pompous, pontificating types are the most messed up.

i for one also appreciated truethat's input, adding a pov that was valuable...her questioning (like the 'bad cop') allowed for a balanced picture to emerge.

btw true that , you might not have met nutters like this in life but i can assure you i have met a number in my years....when i was at Aberystwyth uni i lived at the Theological college for a term or so, it was like living at hogwarts, an awesome building....anyhoo i met some lovely christians there (not christian myself) but also a few right fruitcakes, if you didnt believe shadow's story you'll never believe mine. I moved out of there to live upcampus closer to my lectures etc. but a friend of mine liked it there so much he stayed for 2 years...thinking about it i spent so much time there i might just have well stayed. they were a fun crowd, but i would say that at least 3 in 10 were so odd, a few positively certifyable...one or two id never leave alone with sharp impliments or vulnerable folk.

That may just reflect theology students....ive met a few crazy psychology students too mind u.
so i wouldnt be too quick to call her story incredible, your seriously telling me youve never met any wako folk with religious zeal foaming at their mouths?
but you live in america dont u? is that not the home of the most hated family? the KKK? and other various fruityloops?

No not at all actually but then again I live in NYC which is not really know for its Christian fundies.

No the story posted in the OP was presented to me in a philosophy class a few years back. Right down to "we were a mixed bunch" which you can see in the subsequent links that I posted.

Of course I don't have the original paper that was given out any more but this is why I asked Shadow Hill if she copied it from somewhere else.

The details and language were just a little toooo close for detail. I believe the "hostess" in the scenario that I was given was a Hindu and it brought all different religious debates into it.

We discussed it much in the way we did here.

And as you can see many of the details suddenly changed to not reflect the original post and in addition the ending is just so bizarre its amusing.

You'll note for example Shadow Hill put a few smilies in response to revs humorous reply, Ryo posted a reply the stated it was funny but it wasn't called out as "NOT funny.....people are hurt yadda yadda yadda" until it came to my reply.

Anyway its a really cool discussion but should have been presented as an idea. You'll note that I tried to take it that direction as well.

As it stand now....well......

rev r

Apr 27 2007, 01:17 AM

I always was the disruptive kid in class.

lil gremlin

Apr 27 2007, 02:10 AM

i suppose we'll have to accept shadow's assurance that the tale is true, although it doesnt matter either way; I think it says more about personality types than religions. you could substitute the raging looney for any religious nut or athiest or agnostic or anything...the bullying doesnt have to be about prayer....
if shadow was having a swipe at religious types there are other better stories she could have concocted that would have achieved the effect.
the guy is a pompous bully, you find them in all walks of life and in every country, race and religion. his like are responsible for much of the worlds ill and conflict...the shame of it all is that such folk like power, and seek it. there the prats who usually end up at the top levels of politics, and other pyramids. Im all in favour of presidents etc being chosen by lottery.

truethat

Apr 27 2007, 02:13 AM

QUOTE(lil gremlin @ Apr 27 2007, 02:10 AM) [snapback]1648271[/snapback]

i suppose we'll have to accept shadow's assurance that the tale is true, although it doesnt matter either way; I think it says more about personality types than religions. you could substitute the raging looney for any religious nut or athiest or agnostic or anything...the bullying doesnt have to be about prayer....
if shadow was having a swipe at religious types there are other better stories she could have concocted that would have achieved the effect.
the guy is a pompous bully, you find them in all walks of life and in every country, race and religion. his like are responsible for much of the worlds ill and conflict...the shame of it all is that such folk like power, and seek it. there the prats who usually end up at the top levels of politics, and other pyramids. Im all in favour of presidents etc being chosen by lottery.

President by lottery sounds SO GOOD TO ME! OMG~! LOL That would certainly be better than what's going on so far.

truethat

Apr 27 2007, 02:22 AM

QUOTE(rev r @ Apr 27 2007, 01:17 AM) [snapback]1648204[/snapback]

I always was the disruptive kid in class.

Hey rev if you are still in MD and would be interested in helping out a girl in need of fund raising for spinal surgery, please PM ME!

MissMelsWell

Apr 27 2007, 03:42 AM

I've been at work all day and have lost track of this thread but have reread every darn post slowly and thoughtfully. Honestly, I have to agree with True on this one. I'll just leave it at that.

Shadow_Hill

Apr 27 2007, 12:47 PM

QUOTE(MissMelsWell @ Apr 27 2007, 04:42 AM) [snapback]1648390[/snapback]

I've been at work all day and have lost track of this thread but have reread every darn post slowly and thoughtfully. Honestly, I have to agree with True on this one. I'll just leave it at that.

Well, it's not the first time that I've been called a liar on this forum... won't be the last no doubt.

I don't actually see how this thread can be viewed as a dig at fundies.

The people I wanted to talk about, if you reread the first post, were the other guests and their reluctance to rock the boat. Including my own reluctance in the past.

As for True's claim that these events in my life were presented to her in a story in class

... well, who hasn't been to a dinner party where the guests were all different? I've yet to go to one where they were all the same. Who hasn't encountered friction in a group of friends? I've gone through the group melt down several times, and it's always the same in the end - mud slinging, bad feeling, and then everyone goes their separate ways. I've yet to encounter a group who simply drifted apart without any ill feeling being present.

Four years ago my husband and I moved to this flat, and our neighbours (who live below) began to bully us. Their behaviour was so bizarre that nobody - aside from other people they were bullying - believed it was happening. Every official body we went to didn't want to know. People couldn't believe what the old b*ggers got up to, to such an extent that they thought we were making it all up. We have finally got things sorted out with our neighbours - with no help from anyone else - and people who live nearby are still joking about our situation, convinced it didn't happen, despite the fact that we almost ended up taking them to court. The issue in that conflict isn't religion - it's age, I'm 37 and they're in their 70s.

Perhaps it's easier to think of this as make believe... then you don't have to consider the feelings of the people who've been hurt. I probably should have blogged this instead of posting it here, so I think I'll blog anything further I have to say on the subject.

Michelle

Apr 27 2007, 01:19 PM

I think this was a good topic, sweety...it brings out the hypocrites.

Unfortunately, there are people that will sink their teeth in and shake you like a Bulldog killing it's prey. The best course of action I've found is to let them have the last word. I guess they don't have anything better to do and will browbeat until you give up...unless you have as much time as they do.

It's really funny for people to say you should have tact without realizing how tactless they are being.

Note:I'm not pointing any fingers, but if you feel the shoe fits...

GoddessWhispers

Apr 27 2007, 01:22 PM

I'll say this publically because there was no problem for someone to imply you are a liar publically.

Ignore those that snidely call you a liar, without proof, and then lose the guts they had to say that, by saying that's not what they meant , as they try to imply the misunderstanding, was on your part. There is an element in these forums, that is immune to decent conversation. Take that for what it's worth when you read someone of that ilk attempt to question your character, by exampling poor character themselves.
I believe you. Whats fascinating is the accuser doesn't have evidence to accuse, they just talk and expect to be believed. Not many here do, so don't let them hurt you with hate they spill like venom, in virtually every thread they attempt to derail with that tactic. ((HUG))

bee

Apr 27 2007, 02:44 PM

I, for one, totally believe Shadow Hill.

I think this is the kind of 'drama' that people involved in groups experience a lot.

Thanks to Shadow we had some 'real time' developments shared with us. For the simple reason, I think, that there was such a lot of interest in the thread.

The main story was the group and what happened....but the posts of UM members became a side-story.

GoddessWhispers

Apr 27 2007, 03:26 PM

True.

And it tends to happen a lot, I think. Keeping in mind that the criticism Shadow received from one that implied she was a liar, is moot. Criticism for behavior at a dinner claiming someone made a public spectacle of a minor issue, while at the same time calling the one their criticizing a liar in public forums, speaks for the credible degree of insight that exists in that critic, relative to any observations they may proffer as to how to be socially respectable.

If one has to work at being nice, it's a job, not a characteristic.

Wolf MacCanine

Apr 27 2007, 05:54 PM

Having personally seen incidents amongst groups of people that are very similar to this situation...I do not doubt the veracity of this tale.Humans in any setting similar to this can be very dysfunctional.

If one believes that the tale is false,or one believes that the person who posted the story overreacted in some way....oh well.To each his own.

Shadow,I wouldn't worry too much about some of the comments made in this thread.They're not worth the effort to respond in any way.

PsiSeeker

Apr 28 2007, 12:28 AM

QUOTE(Shadow_Hill @ Apr 24 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]1643949[/snapback]

I went to a dinner party a few nights back... I went, but did not get my dinner.

Years ago I attended a course, and a group of the students took to meeting four times a year when the course ended... we've been having quarterly dinner parties ever since. The group is a mixed bunch... two christians, one lapsed catholic, one Deist (me), three muslims, and the remaining eight are a mixture of atheists and persons of no fixed religion. Every time we sit down to eat the one christian (male in his forties, husband of the other christian) says a prayer, to Jesus. Every time this happens the rest of us fidget about and look uncomfortable.

A comment on a thread here at the forum was stuck in my head when I attended the dinner... basically that people shouldn't discuss religion at the dinner table. And yet there we were, facing a non-religious dinner which began with a prayer. I approached each of the non-christian members of the group and asked if they were uncomfortable about the prayer, and they all agreed that they were, so we decided to approach the christian chap and ask that we all take part in a small silence instead of a prayer, to permit him to say a silent prayer to his god and to permit everyone else to give thanks for the meal in their own personal way. Well, he was not impressed.

As we sat down, he prepared himself, watched everyone get comfortable, and then began his prayer... which I objected to. He asked why I was so determined to disrupt the party with my nonsense - I replied that I would not pray to Jesus because I did not believe in him. At this, he shot to his feet and accused me of being disrespectful. Those who had agreed that the prayer made them uncomfortable transformed into turncoats, and began suggesting we go ahead with the prayer after all. I refused to.

During the following ten minutes the christian chap informed me that I was ignorant and impolite, that I had been responsible for the increasingly hostile scene, and that my insistence that I did not believe in Jesus was taken by him as a personal insult. I explained that I was entitled to my own beliefs, and was informed that I was correct but that I should leave such things at home and not go about offending people with them. The group buckled and the christian chap was asked to calm down and say his prayer. I walked out.

What has vexed me no end is that I have been blamed for the bad feeling, for having beliefs contrary to the christian chap's and requesting that those beliefs be respected. I rang the hostess yesterday morning, and she told me that it is never a good idea to discuss religion at the dinner table... the very same comment which inspired my refusal to pray in the first place.

That chap's parting shot to me as I left was "I have Jesus on my side" accompanied by a very smug grin, which made me want to thump him.

How, in a group made up of people with such differing beliefs, can christianity be the default religion? Why was the christian chap's belief system the only one which was considered deserving of respect?

What puzzles me isn't this chap's belief that he was entitled to special consideration... it's no surprise, he's a pompous a*se. But why did the others go along with him? I have done the same thing for years. Why do we not want to rock the boat?

I think... Most people are just scared for these direct confrontations. Unfortunately you always get one "rebel" who will do what he wants and believe that he is right no matter what. This is where most of the serious arguments start. The problem with these "rebels" is that they are extremely narrow minded. The others went along with him coz they were intimidated of him. That's all it was, i think, they mightn't have agreed with him, but they wouldn't have stood up with him because of the confrontation.