Is Religion Just Organized Superstition? Is Superstition Always Religious?
(Source)



Is there a real connection between religion and superstition? Some, particular adherents of various religious faiths, will often argue that the two are fundamentally different types of beliefs. Those who stand outside of religion, however, will notice some very important and fundamental similarities which bear closer consideration.

Obviously, not everyone who is religious is also superstitious and not everyone who is superstitious is also religious. A person can faithfully attend church services all their life without giving a second thought to a black cat walking in front of them. On the other hand, a person who completely rejects any religion whatsoever may consciously or unconsciously avoid walking under a ladder — even if there is no one on the ladder who might drop something.

If neither necessarily leads to the other, it might be easy to conclude that they are different types of beliefs. Moreover, because the very label “superstition” seems to include a negative judgment of irrationality, childishness, or primitiveness, it is understandable of religious believers wouldn’t want their own faiths to be categorized with superstitions.

We must, nevertheless, acknowledge that the similarities are not superficial. For one thing, both superstition and traditional religions are non-materialistic in nature. They do not conceive of the world as a place controlled by sequences of cause and effect between matter and energy. Instead, they presume the added presence of immaterial forces which influence or control the course of our lives.

Furthermore, there is also the appearance of a desire to provide meaning and coherence to otherwise random and chaotic events. If we get hurt in an accident, it is might be attributed to a black cat, to spilling salt, to failing to pay sufficient honor to our ancestors, to performing the appropriate sacrifices to the sprits, etc. There seems to be a genuine continuum between what we tend to call “superstition” and the ideas in animistic religions.

In both cases, people are expected to avoid certain actions and perform other actions in order to ensure that they do not fall victim to the unseen forces at work in our world. In both cases, the very idea that such unseen forces are at work seems to stem (at least in part) both from a desire to explain otherwise random events and from a desire to have some means of affecting those events.

These are all important psychological benefits often used to explain the reason why religion exists and why religion persists. They are also reasons for the existence and persistence of superstition. It seems reasonable to argue, then, that while superstition may not be a form of religion, it does spring from some of the same basic human needs and desires as religion does. Thus, a greater understanding of how and why superstition develops can be useful in gaining a better understanding and appreciation of religion.

If man is told that a certain action is wrong, he may be a good boy and avoid it, but he may be a bad one and do it all the same. There cannot be someone there to watch each of us 24/7 and keep us all in check, and so enters the god/gods/mischievous spirits/whetever who will be able to monitor our every move, so that even if we have escaped punishment by our fellow man, we may still be punished by a higher power - whether that punishment comes in the form of eternal damnation or seven years' bad luck. It's all about control.

Agreed.

I think we create boxes for ourselves, articles of faith each one, because it's easier to face a straw man, than it is full on, all that it means to be "I" .

Well, what a surprise...another thread with the single purpose of pointing out that the religious are brainless drones.

I just need to stay away from the SS section, but it's becoming almost impossible with so many threads lately.

Religion is a highly organized buisness. it gives fame,wealth, and power to those in control of it.

I am confused. When I come here it is because I have chosen to... I can't imagine how it would become impossible to avoid the place.

My curiousity gets the better of me sometimes. Then I come in and see religion and the people that believe being ridiculed and everyone patting themselves on the back for doing so.

I find there's a lot of that going on from both sides. If I felt as you do I would not bother to visit... if it bothers you enough to post as you did. There are other areas which you might be more comfortable in. If an area of a forum ceases to interest/educate me I leave it... I imagine others do the same.

It does interest me...can you point out a few threads that were started with the sole purpose of disrespecting atheists, Wiccans, or Diests?

This is the only part that made any sense to me.

You are entitled to your opinion of this piece, by all means.

Superstition is irrational. Religious faith is irrational. That is not ridicule, that is fact. It is not a rational process to believe something invisible made something tangible. Our world simply doesn't communicate that as a realistic equation. In the rational conscious world, if something exists, there is theoretically something that can be said to have made it so. Theory is made fact, for all that means, when we witness a pregnant woman make another human being through the processes of child birth. Irrationality would say baby came in a swaddling bundle suspended from the end of a storks beak. That's a fairy tail. That's irrational, by nature.

It is not ridicule when the very definition of faith precludes anything held in faith, is a fact. Before organized religion was created people lived superstitiously. One and the same thing. Animism, is believing god/dess, creative spirit, is alive in everything created. As if everything that exists has a soul of it's creator, within. Making all things holy, in that notion of divine influence. That's faith, that's superstition, when people like Buddhists, believe that spark inside all that exists may be their ancestor. That's why, it takes a great long time for many Buddhist monks to make gardens and clear foundations for new construction, at their monestary. (I saw this occur on a Discovery Channel presentation of a Monestary expanding it's properties in Tibet). Because they remove what they believe could be their incarnated ancestor, from the area. Worms, slugs, etc... That's superstition. That's faith in ancestors inhabiting material reality in this conscious life.

Does it mean my late great aunt is not my Hewlett Packard desk jet? no! Could I hold faith it is, sure! Does it prove that's true. No. Does it mean I don't have a bit of respect for Buddhists, that think like that. No.

There is something to be discussed in matters of faith, religion, dogma, deity. It is all an aspect of cognitive psychology. Some people like to delve deeper into what that is, when it is said to be god, jesus, religion. For some people Armageddon is the end of the world as foretold by John in Revelations. For others it's another example of eschatology, that spans across cultures and for generations. Some people like to find what that is, what it means, where it could come from, besides just existing as faith. And that, is my purpose for posting this thread. To dig deeper than the gossamer of faith, to what may be at the heart of it's creation. It is not intended to ridicule anyone. I am not responsible for those that may choose to take it into that direction, what this articles author initiated was an investigation into the source of faiths and superstitions, what makes them so similar to one another. Is there a difference between fear of black cats, and concern for being tempted by a demon? This article asks a question, because superstition and religion do exist and hold an impact in peoples lives. What is fostered by investigating that, is to ask why. And what does that mean.

There's nothing wrong with looking deeper and past the notion of taking it on faith. And if one wishes this thread not to be ridicule of religion, they then should contribute their best, to insure that's not how they make it to be. When it didn't start that way in the original article, it wasn't intended as such by this original poster. So if it becomes ridicule, it must be made to be so, because I assure you that was not how it began.

Well, thaphantum's one thread springs to mind... but I can't remember it's title. But when I responded that I see both sides patting themselves on the back I was replying to your comment about those who believe being ridiculed... not to who starts threads and about what.

People hold very distinct opinions about religion - on both sides - and I see no problem with that. This is the spirituality v. skepticism section... there will be threads started by various people, covering various subjects. If, at any given time, there are more threads stating one viewpoint, then I assume that those who do not share it did not choose to start threads and balance the numbers.

Out of curiousity, do you put Pagans in the same group with other religions? They do have many Gods.

edit:We were posting at the same time, Shadow.

The point I was making is that I see the majority of believers showing respect to disbelievers by not starting threads, say for example, that you are going to hell for not believing.

I don't know much about Pagans. I have a friend who is one but she doesn't have gods, she has ancestors. Until I find out more I shan't put them in any group.



The threads might not be started, but for some it is part of the Christian religion that non-belief in Jesus leads you to hell. And this point is discussed many times - even amongst the Christian posters who don't agree that the only way to god is through Jesus. It may be a simple matter of fact statement to a Christian, that only those who accept Christ can go to heaven, but to people of differing beliefs it may still be considered insulting.

Motivation and the unbeliever?

ATHIESTS DO NOT EXIST!?

Time To Put Up Or Shut Up

Understanding Atheists?

VisiChallenge To Atheist - $1000 To The Winner

Everybody has an opinion. There's really nothing that can be said against atheists really for it's each on their own, while religion however is a nicely bonded foundation with written text and more to be questioned and broken down.


As for superstition... I don't know... I lean towards a lot of paranormal because I know we as humanity have only scratched the gemstone of knowledge we can learn from the universe. Religion to me is more organized scams for a need. Religions are all cults that just got popular.

I do believe that many of those threads Kratos were started to "answer back" to the constant barrage of Anti Christian threads that are started on this site.

And if you look you will notice that the responses attacked the posters starting those threads as "FLAMING" and whatnot.

In fact the same people who start the anti Christian threads are the ones who say those threads are flaming.

So if that's your alternative to these kinds of threads would it not stand to reason that these threads are also flaming?

Where are the deist and wiccan threads?????


ETA You will also notice that two of those threads were closed due to a collective effort of the Christian bashers on this site to take topics OT and flame out the thread.

Ohh yeaa those threads...........the ignorance of them all

Actually no... I rarely start threads on the intent of 'answering back'. Not what I'm aiming for. Most of the threads I post are from news links on an atheist forum I belong to. It's not like I make up stuff either for my arguements, I use stuff from said religion or belief and the news. So the more news or articles that are written by someone in that said week, the more I post. The less written, the less I post. I do read a lot of the forum as well without posting. I'm like god, spying on you all from my monitor in wisconsin on the board.



Nah, good discussion. I have thick skin so it helps. It would be truely boring if we all agreed.

It's a bit difficult to start a thread to attack Deists when you don't know much about them, and I have to say that judging by the reactions I've seen from some Christians on the forum, people seem a bit befuddled when it comes to Deism. It's hard to attack something when you can't define the belief system you're attacking. I would imagine the same would be said of Wiccans. Any belief system which doesn't have a strong shared structure and set of guidelines is difficult to pin down.

There has been Diest threads actually...Mako has posted some

it was attacked also!!!!!!

I once saw a Muslim get led into a nasty trap..by a christian...who made a thread, asking him about the mulim faith................the sec the mulim responded POW..torn appart......just to be told the Koran was WRONG WTF??

Saw that weeks ago...not on this board the other religious board...i was stunned!!

I will look those up because I like reading about different perceptions of Deists. I was told by one Christian - can't remember which one - that I have made up my Creator. I thought that was funny. I can't say I'm offended by it... more baffled.

"POW..torn appart..."

You crack me up, BM.

Why would you start a thread to attack someone. See that in itself is quite telling.

Most people I admire on here start threads to have a dialogue. But you are correct. Most of the anti christians on this site start threads to ATTACK Christians.

That's why I said I felt those threads were started to answer back.

There are also people on here who start threads that seem to be open minded but they are just trying to goad people into responding so they can criticize their Christian beliefs as not being "Good" christians or whatnot.

lol...but I did feel sorry for the Muslim guy, that was just trying to explain his faith

I don't know much about he mulim faith, but would like to see more threads on it for a change!!

People can be ruthless...

It's not telling. I thought you were picking up from Michelle's point about threads that attack beliefs... so I thought you were asking for threads that attack Deists and Wiccans. Just a misunderstanding then... nothing more.

I got slapped for saying something negative about my own religion (if anyone has a right to be critical of a belief it would be a person who tries to practice said belief. No?). It was a light slap, though.

Oh I see sorry about that!

That was "Muslim" wasn't it?

I remember a few of his threads, that also included video links, if not mistaken. I also wish more of the muslim faith would be posted, so as to present a different aspect than what is propagated as the extremist aspect, in media and the like. And I also know what you mean, with respect to threads of that nature. As with Deist threads, like Rev's slap , and even pagan and satanist threads. POW! Torn apart, just like you said. Though I gotta admit when I read that I get these Batman action hero visuals! "KABOOM " "ZOINK" "SPLAT!"

Come to think of it, yes I was Muslim..thats his ID

Regarding the OP, when you practise a religion (in my particular case, Christianity) there's always the risk of just using God, Allah, etc. as some kind of "genie". It's the so called "magical attitude" that was also present in so many of the religions from the past (I'm thinking of Egypt, the Aztecs, yaddayaddayadda), the attitude that believed that the power beyond us could be controlled for their own personal gain, which might explain the presence of the rites to get the rains, the stations, etc, which is the point of the article

(I will continue the argument in another post. I gotta go now, but I WILL continue it. This one looks to be quite an interesting thread )

A friend of mine gave me her copy of the book Spiral Dance, by Starhawk. A wiccan high priestess with a background in psychology. I just started to read cover to cover, as I usually flip through chapters first and see what's in the overall. She mentions magical thinking , with respect to wicca. Saying it's the younger self, that comes out to play, when engaged by the rituals of wicca. It's a dropping, in a sense, of those critical rational thought processes, that then allow the creative part of one's self, that isn't constrained with thoughts of what can't be done in the real world. So, when younger self, is allowed to play, sort of speak, magic holds potential. Ritual inspires the goddess/gods to hear and attend the circle, etc...

With a background in psychology, I imagine there's a great deal more that can be said from that field, that may be able to relate what's being effected in the mental and emotional centers, as one enters into religious states. Even early humans are said to have practiced what is called sympathetic magic. Which is again, a product of what you said. Magical thinking.

I also found this, which is in keeping with the OP:


(Excerpt) "Magical thinking" is one of the distinguishers between so-called "primitive thought" and the modern one. Sir James Frazer in his massive collection of myths and legends, The Golden Bough, defines magic as the performance of certain acts to effect change or ensure continuance of the season cycles. Seasonal rituals, such as the sacrifice of a human (especially a king) or animals at the spring planting, are performed for the efficacious purposes of ensuring food crops will grow and gods or spirits will be propitiated. These "superstitions" or magic-making rituals flow from a conception that humans must interact with spirits to keep the world order moving along safely. If the rites are not performed in a timely, accurate manner, many cultures believe - and can offer empirical proof within their own lifetimes - that the security of the community will be jeopardized. "Magic" offers safety and control in a chaotic and unpredictable world.

CREATION MYTHS - The Judeo-Christian Bible begins with a chapter on the Creation Myth, the "Genesis" of the Universe: "In the beginning, God created Heaven and Earth." The Japanese Shinto book, the "Kojiki" describes the grandparents of the world on a bridge stirring the oceans below with their spears; drops fall from the spears to form the islands of Japan. Native American and African myths tell of the appearances of birds, spiders, turtles and other creatures that shape the earthly environment and make it suitable for human life. A Chinese story tells of Pan Ku, the first god, who was born out of the world egg.

Myths explain the connection between individual human life and the universe surrounding the individual and their community. The environment is the way it is because of a specific divine purpose, which gives meaning and underlies the culture. It is an important task of each community to figure out the best ways to work with the seen and unseen forces that shape their lives - the creation myths especially offer keys as to how to do that. They describe the uses of power in specific ways and offer patterns of behavior that will elicit more power for humans to control their realities. Nothing less than the energy of the Universal Life Forces is at stake. By working with nature and the unseen guiding divine forces, power will be granted to humans: "mana" to the Hawaiian shamans, "prana" (the breath of life) and "shakti" for Hindu yogis, "chi" in Chinese traditions, "ki" in Japanese arts. This power is spiritual in its essence and energy in its manifest presence on the earthly plane.

I can see how you would make that statement, it is entirely logical for you. However, for those who personally know a supernatural (by current secular human definition, anyway) God, that is an untrue statement. Working on the information that someone who does not know God, would have; it would be logical to say that faith is irrational. I can completely see how it makes no sense to one who does not have knowledge of Him. However, when a step is taken past that and one knows God, there is extra information to work from, and the whole scenario is altered, with the above statement becoming illogical and outdated, and it can be equally said that lack of faith is simply ignorance of His presence.

I believe in a Creator. But I don't believe he communicates directly with individual men. So whilst I have a belief in him, I do not say I "know" him, as I do not believe it is possible to do so.

I believe that superstition and religious faith are illogical.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin