Christians believe that one sin is every bit as bad as the other...ok

So it must meean the same punishment from God, regardless of the sin...........ok


Here's the thing...IMAGINE IF.................the law was looked apon like that


People getting the SAME punishment for different crimes

Un paid parking tickets -- Life in prison

Petty theft -- :Life!!

burglary - Life!!

Caught driving with alchol...regarddless if you hurt anyone or not --- Life!!........... well I agree they should get a hefty sentence!!

Hookers -- thats it you get life in prison!!

Fruad - Life

Jay walking - Life...the book thrown at you!!

Smoking ciggys in a puplic house or restruant -- Thats it buddy life in prison...no parole!!

Drunken disordely -- off you go to life behind bars you drunken scoundrel!!

Fighting - Life life and life you aint getting out
ect
Throwing your ciggy butt or any kind of litter in the streets - LIFE!!

Ohh Murder - Life...rape life..ect ect ect

Talk about Zero tolerance




Wouldnt that seem a tad unfair to many??

Which is why I find it so hard to believe, that one sin is every bit as bad as another, but then again, I am not a christian...I accept that christians do see it that way, but find it weird is all...sorry!


Your thoughts??

I never really thought of it that way. Well, that's it, I guess I'm going to Hell. I ahven't done anything REALLY bad, but, I haven't been a total angel either.

Are you sure that's what Christians believe? That's not the way I understand it. That's not what the Bible says. Under the laws of Moses there are punishments stipulated for different crimes. The punishments for somethings were worse than for others.

Most Christians seem to believe that EVERY human being has sinned, and that the only escape from damnation is acceptance of Jesus Christ.

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong. :\

Yes from what I have read on here and heard in real life, christians infact do belive that one sin is every bit as bad as another sin

IE - To covet your neighbors good...is every bit as bad as raping and murdering a child....both same kind of sins

As humans we see "shades of gray" when it comes to crime because we all know that anyone of us might speed every now and then, or steal a pencil or pen or a pad of paper from work, so since we all do it, and we don't see anyone getting hurt we see it as OK.

However, from God's standpoint, from the view of someone perfectly holy, the difference between a little white lie and cold-blooded murder is insignificant. Think of it this way. If you and I were to stand on the equator together and have a competition to see who could throw a rock closest to the North Pole, you would probably throw your rock farther than me (you're one tough lady! ) you might even throw your rock 5 meters farther than mine! That would look like a lot from our point of view, but from the point of view of someone standing at the North Pole, there would be no discernible difference between how far you threw your rock and how far I threw mine. It's the same with God, from where He stands the difference between your little white lie and my cold-blooded murder are insignificant.

Ok, that is true, but it doesn't mean one sin is just as bad as another.

But that's just someing I believe is used to get others to follow the same path as them, by making you think, you are doomed if you dont repent!! Like the term - turn or burn!!


It's just a belief, but it doesnt do any harm to me...cuz i believe I am going to heaven without following any other path, I follow my heart and do what's right by me

We both be doing the same thing - throwing rocks!!!

But try putting it this way.......................

But if you where throwing grenades and I was throwing water balloons lol........................what sounds worse?? the balloons or the grenades??

IAMS throws a grenade...look out people BOOM...bodies everywhere...carnage!!!

BM throws a water balloon... look out people...SPLASH ha ha lol

which is worse??

However BM always threw water balloon as a kid..............I mean come on, who didn't?? LOL

LOL


I think someone changed that part in the bible, to gain more followers, to tell people, a sin is a sin, so that no matter what they did, if they sinned in any way, they will BURN...................UNLESS...they REPENT <--to me and modern day outlook.......................its a sales pitch mixed with a scare tactic ...not trying to be funny neither, that's what it looks like in the eyes of the non christian

It would indeed look unfair from mans perspective because we see laws as a form of controlled good behavior within society. The laws of God were a demonstration to mankind (Old Testament) that we all are unable to comply with what is required to enter heaven that is to be completely sin free. Small ones or large one don’t make any difference in Gods eyes.
Mans sees the law in a different light than his Creator. We tend look at sin/ wrong doings as gradients. One sin is greater than another. But God sees all sin as equally abhorrent and therefore simply not acceptable in His house (heaven).
Just as we have the right to tell people that comes into our house to remove their shoes first. It is not a question as to whether we agree with the rules or if your guest wants to argue that its only a small amount of mud, to you it does not matter its still mud to you no matter how little. If your house guest refused to remove his shoes and stood at your door arguing the point you would be inclined to close the door in his face.
The result would be much the same, a separation between visitor and guest. That separation between man and God is what we refer to as hell.

Irish

Well their not very good Christians if they believe that, because in the Bible some sins are very clearly worse than other sins. I didn't believe that back when I was a Christian. I don't think all Christians believe that. Maybe the Christians you've met in these threads believe that. I don't know what they've said in these threads.

Yes, but you're still looking at it from a human perspective, BM. I was trying to show you what it looks like from God's perspective.

No you where showing it to me from a christians perspective...on how the christian god looks at it, from something that was written by a christian......and yes HUMAN also lol

IAMS I did say in my OP, that I was fine and accepted thats how christian look at it....I was just comparing a what if the LAW where like that....

Dont tell me LOL tell the christians that you see on this board, posting in this same thread..that...not me lol

there is IAMS..Irish..and goodness knows how many more..jim


IAMS..Irish..texas and the rest of you lovely people...JIM says you aint good christians lol

But I will stand up for you...*smacks Jim*

Geri, all sin carries the sentence of seperation from God. That is the eternal consequence.

The punishments are indeed different for each crime in society and in Bible stories.

There is a difference between being seperated from God because of the inclination to sin (having sin nature), and the earthly discipline used to correct and deter certain behaviors. No one is suggesting that jaywalkers should get the book thrown at them.

Sin takes different forms, but it is all still sin, and the presence of it in the human heart is what seperates us from Him. How discipline is meted out for each offense is an ENTIRELY different matter, wholly apart from the fundamental nature of being a sinner. We will all rebel from laws and rules, that is because we are willful and disobedient by nature (which means we're sinners and will try to justify it in terms of how "bad" it really was.... Aww come on, it wasn't THAT bad officer, I was only going four miles over the limit and no one was around anyway...)

But the officer is not concerned with HOW MUCH you were speeding by, just that you were speeding. And this act of law-breaking seperates you from being lawful, which puts you out there is law-breaking territory, vulnerable to the consequences thereof. Many try to lessen the impact of being a sinner by rationalizing, but it is still the fact that we have a nature to disobey if we think we know better that illustrates the point entirely.

lol *gets out a couple sets of knuckles, one for me and one for BM* Thanks, girl! I know you're for real because you always got my back.

Yes I have your back missy LOL want me to smack Jim again??? ok then *WALLOP take that Jimmy*

Texas....I fully accept and understand how you as a christian look at sin...trust me, I used to be one myself....and I never said anything about your faith being wrong...........cuz I can't lol

The law is different though...yes the speeding thing is correct, the copper isnt going to look at how much you went over the limit
BUT the copper can let you off with a warning..............................God don't!!

I think the idea of every sin being the same is appealing to sinners. Think about it... you murder someone and you're no less forgivable than the chap who looked at his neighbour's ox for too long. If it said in the bible "he who covets his neighbour's ox is easily forgivable and it's no biggie, but the murderer has only got a slim chance of being forgiven" how encouraging would that be for rapists and murderers? And there are so many rotten people in the world that church attendance would drop significantly if all the rot bags were excluded. So you have to let the dregs of society feel they've got the same chance as the decent man who works hard and has only ever really been guilty of looking at the woman next door's backside every now and then.

The good man who is a hard working chap, who loves his wife, and takes care of his children, who doesn't accept Jesus can't get into heaven because nothing good you do can get you closer to the biblical god. The rapist who rapes thirty women, then moves on to killing them, but finds Jesus in prison later on has a pretty good chance of getting in.

It doesn't matter how rotten you are throughout your life, how many people you kill, and how much misery you cause... as long as you accept Jesus before you kick the bucket you're in with a chance. The poor atheists you killed don't stand a cat in hell's chance.

Do you really think God would send somebody to hell just because he didn't believe in him? Christians have a really low opinion of God to believe something like that.

I'm not a Christian... I don't even believe in sin let alone all sins being equal. I believe the Creator doesn't care who we worship.

Whats funny about your statements jim..is you only post them to NON christians..and you skip over the christians that DO IN FACT see them as the same...sins!!


weird huh??

I see victims of sexual predators on an average basis & Nothing can sicken me more. It's was almost impossible for me to accept the fact that MY (loving- lover of the meek & humble) GOD could/would actually forgive these monsters- while still LOVE them as his children. My thoughts were "how could God do that?" considering the extent of these crimes.. I, for a long time, had a difficult difficult time accepting this possibility. I thought, "how can a sexual lunatic be forgiven as the same as an adulterer, or liar?" (Maybe I struggled so hard because I have seen up close and personal the extent of damage that has been done to the victims & families, never to be undone- almost impossible to be forgotten!) Then, after so long, and resenting these sadists as I still do, I have come to believe that God does forgive them--- Yes. BUT then I remember God is true JUSTICE. The ONE TRUTH in JUSTICE. This is important. I've learned that despite the sin, (that sinner will have to reach down as far as that sin has carried them) to ask with all TRUE sincerity for that gift of FORGIVENESS from our heavenly father. Maybe a liar wouldn't have stand there as long, and beg as the sadist would, possibly. It's all about the sincerity of the heart, and if the heart is trully seeking full repentence. imo.

LOL Ger-bear, I know you worry about offending me, but you don't, you and I know each other too well for that, now. I am a salty little dog. I will sometimes call out those who excessively make an effort to get on my bad side, but even then I try to not get perturbed easily, but just watch people and know what's going on. I do not see ill intentions in you, only a great effort to understand and be friends, and if there is a misspoken word here or there by either me or you, I know we will forgive each other because things happen. I have absolutely no fear that you are out to offend me or speak down to me, so please don't ever think that I take anything you say that way. You have a great open mind and when people address things bluntly like you do, and there is a lot of exchange between different types of people, there is bound to be something put out there that could be misconstrued as offensive by more sensitive types, but I am not one of them and I don't see the point of being offended over nothing, and I know you're a good girl . You are a sweet lady and you deserve the compliment.

The only thing I do want to say is, for the little story I have given below, please humor me and assume that all of the given conditions are true. We could go down rabbit trails and point out how in the real world, cops don't do this or that, or this or that doesn't happen that way, but it would not provide for seeing this through to its conclusion and I would like for us to debate the givens in this analogy, rather than point out how not perfect and not true to life it is. Just remember, this is MY analogy and it's all true

And if you argue with that I'm going to send you to the aliens and UFO thread and have some greys probe you.

Now.
Let's say that the cop (for the sake of argument) knows that you are going to speed again as soon as you are out of his sight. He knows that you might not run anyone over on this block, but on the next block there is a block party that appears suddenly when you come around the corner and if he doesn't deter you from speeding all over the place you're going to mow down a bunch of old people playing bingo or something. If you somehow manage to not seperate the old people from their socks, on the next block in the neighborhood, there is a group of schoolkids out for a walk, collecting leaves for an art project. Later on the same block, there is a spot where a huge pothole is gouged out in the ground, and you will definitely pop a tire.

The point is, it's the cop's neighborhood, and he is the enforcer of the laws of it. He knows his neighborhood intimately, every pothole, every kid that has a habit of running out in the street after a toy, and everything that could damage you, your car, or those living there. You might be aware of a couple of these things, and so think that you can effectively navigate around all of them, but he knows that if you and everyone else continually breaks the laws, devestating things are going to happen, it's just a matter of time. For the sake of argument, and because it's fun, we're going to say that he's like a really bad-@ss cowboy sherriff, and he is in charge of that whole neighborhood, has juridstiction over the whole place. He knows every family in every house and cares for all the neighborhood kids like his own, and he's not going to tolerate your coming in in your little sexy hot rod, thinking you can do whatever you want with no regard to the rules of his territory. Now something might not have happened that particular time you were speeding, but it is guaranteed that by pursuing a lifestyle of speeding and driving recklessly, only thinking about yourself on the road and whether you're getting where you want to be fast enough, something catastrophic is going to happen sooner or later. It is inherent in your nature to speed and break other traffic laws if it suits your purposes (plan) but it's HIS territory, and his plan is the one that is going to be obeyed. And worse, it's not just you. You're only thinking about your speeding, but he knows that everyone will speed and drive recklessly. Let's say he chose to restrict access to his neighborhood, and only allow in those whom he knows will submit to his authority to discipline them when they break the laws, thereby ensuring that only those who respect his neighborhood will BE in his neighborhood.

Bet you cant find a copper that will pay the fine and/or do the time for you

Dangit Irish, why do you always say everything faster and smarter than I do!

Yea unless you date one LMAO

BUT I am living proof that a copper WILL let you away with just a warning...................thats fact

Here is another FACT....................would the same copper, let you away with a warning IF..you killed someone??? Dont think so

Now do you see the difference...between a lousy parking offence to a killing offence.....................big world of difference


Even look at the 10 commandments........there are things that are refered to as SIN that isnt in the 10 commandments


but I wont get into that

Interesting idea but who's gonna be the wardens if all of us goes to the slammer?

sis you sure do come up the thought provoking threads....

I basically see a construct/system that has been created around this idea of a god that needs to be begged for forgivness because he made imperfect humans ect , and lo and behold along comes this 'religoion which outlines a way for one to be loved again'....I'm sorry i can 't get to excited about this... i see it as a marketing tool how else you gonna get a bunch of folks to keep coming back????? lets just say relgion is a buisness and its interests are to stay that way....

I mean no disreseoct but this reminds me of a AA meeting .."Hi I'm so and so and i'm a sinner"...i'd say what one may benefit from is a hug and a kind word for themselves. people who feel good about themselves make sure others feel good too and all these happy people running around well lets jsut say harming others is the last thing on their minds.........

BM- if we got life for everything, noone would be "free". Who hasnt ever twisted the truth? Who hasnt even taken a pen or pencil thats not theirs? who hasnt spead??

A sin is a sin- stealing is stealing whether it be money or a pen or a car or an apple. But only God can determine which sins are worthy of punishment and forgiveness. We arent perfect for a reason! Look how many people would be out of jobs if we where perfect- police, judges, lawyers, jail guards.... Its a choice of what sin you will commit and why you will commit it. If you steal and apple because your starving, that may be seen as ok, but if you steal money for drugs, it people will frown and want to punish you. Its almost likes its based on a scale of one to ten, one being very minor and 10 being major and what each level conciquenses have. If you steal an apple, you may have a guilty conciencce for a while, where as your punishment for stealing money is to pay it back, pay a fine and maybe spend time in jail or do community service. Not all sins can be classifiyed under one heading.

IMO rapists and murderers have to be the devils children. I cant see why god would put those people on earth to disrupt and cause pain for so many. sorry Sheri i only saw this then! When i said they are devils children- its not the imperfect humans- we all are, its the cold blooded killers who dont care and live to cause pain im referring to!

Texas girl you are the funniest femal on this board...I loves ya for it...I read all the way through your post and man you cracked me up...I called gary in to read your post, and he was laughing so hard, that on his way out of the room, he tripped over my curling irons....(cuz I left them on the floor ) LMAO

Anyhoo.........


Thank you Heather, you are very observant, and too kind and not to mention funny, that's what I like about you...a lot...so understanding


Aww thanks...........yes I do deserve a compliment...just like you do....I write them all the time...even the ones you don't make out, cuz i write them in white font color LMAO

Texas you are such a kind, lovely, funny lady <---like that see??



*GULPS* - A gggggun.....crikey!!! oh ok then lol


ohh noooooooooo anything but that..................lol

NOW...


Geee he would be smart then............cuz I prolly would ...............but if I tell him, me is sawry...and repent to him, he might let me go again LMAO <---so kidding on that one...


This is what made me laugh so hard....old people...everyone associates old people with BINGO LMAO

Irish...do you play BINGO?? lol


Or their false teeth..or bus passes or their zimmer frames

I laughed at the socks part... lol


awww collecting leaves how sweet LMAO.................ehh what about the kids playing hop scotch...or hide and seek...or on their bikes ect?? do they count?? just kidding lol

Jokes aside...NOW..




Well you got one thing right, a lot of women think they can bat their eyes at a cop and get away with it..............I usually have the -- OMG I have drugs in my trunk look on my face lol

I see what you are saying Texas, it was a good anology.........................the cop needs to be careful, and has to lay down the law regardless..............otherwise, other lives (appart from the old people playing bingo) are at risk.............
Just like someone being stopped, who has had just the one or two pints, may not be drunk................BUT they still need to get done for drink driving............INCASE something DOES happen.........you can't be too careful...................this I do know Texas


there I added a lil of my own anology lol


thanks for that texas..it was a good anology...now please dont have me probed lol

IMO Am feeling sinful and unworthy seems to lead to tthese behaviors, if you want a fully functioning being you wouldn't teach them to think they are bad they were made that way and have little to no hope of ever being better, they may after alife of groveling may get a reprieve at death maybe...doubtful...........we create the issues we have and to begin to change them we are gonna have to really look to the ideas that are supporting these behaviors, we need to understand them to prevent in the future....many are being killed because they don't beleive the same way......We kill people to shut them up we use killin got solve conflict......we also have to admit that many of our systems are creating very uncivilized beings....I wasn't directing my post at you i was jsut commenting in general....I have kids I think it sucks to have to watch them like hawks( haev a pedophile list for the surrouinding area) and that they live amoungst beings that see no value in themselves and therefore see none in others..we can only give what we ourselves feel apply to us...Gosh we have systems that generate hatered and call it love and justifyed....

You got me thinking......................the man who steals food to feed his kids...................does this mean..that man will be punished by both GOD and the LAW??

Well I had to pull out my assault rifle because I feel it is the only thing that tops your arrows

Good post sis....and you know I see where you are coming from..........I too feel if you are law abiding...and you lead a good life....so what if you told the odd white lie ect...........you aint perfect, and God knows that


I can see BOTH sides of the arguement...both religious and non religious...

LOL my bow and arrows hee hee...but they are NO math for your gun


Thanks for the post Texas..it was a good anology...all joking aside

Most people would over look the fact that he was stealing to save his kids if it was his last choice, driven by sheer determination to help them. IMO God wouldnt punish that "father" if it was dont out of love and if it didnt hurt anyone else. But if a father who could afford to feed his kids and provide them with basic facilities to live, stole to feed his family so he didnt have to spend him money, would be seen as greedy.
A Sin is a Sin but how it is classified is very different. EG: Look have many brands of apples their are: granny smith, pink lady, sundowner, royal gala, red delicious- they are all apples, but all have different physical looks and shaps and colours and tastes, causing us to categarise them under different names to tell the difference between what we want and what we like- seperating one group from another, even though they are all apples.

thanks sis for reading it ....you are very gracious openminded poster and are very fair to all ....

So are you sis
It's the only way to be sis...fair.................no point in being baised.................I hold NO respect for anyone who is baised, and can't be arsed to look at someone elses POV

But if a sin is a sin..............then why would God over look a sin?

I belive God does over look many sins...don't get me wrong...but not everyone does

And thats where it gets messy- even in the justice system. Some who rape will only get maybe 10yrs, but are relased earlier, others may get life. It all depends on peoples opinions.
A sin is a sin-yes, but why do we sin?? what where the reasons behind our sins? People sin for all different types of reasons.

Like i said before, i believe only God has the authority to determine whether a sin can be forgiven or not- but thats just me. We weren't meant not to sin because its too hard not to do something you shouldnt at time.

just to respond to this. Whether u believe or not, all sin is eqivalent to the other. I do agree with u it does seem wierd, but it makes sense. We are all sinners, so we sin. Now sinse sinning period is wrong, nothing from sin's nature can be right, therefore saying that if someone steals and u curse, u have no right to look at the next man a point ur fingers to condemn him because u are very much wrong. This society is all screwed up, they try to make one sin seem harmless while the other despicable. u based ur opinion on a flesh point of view, try seeing it through God's eyes. Do u think he is going to let some people slide from their sin and condemn the other.....no? S o just think about it His way and not urs....

[quote name='god'schosen1' date='Apr 30 2007, 11:41 PM' post='1653364']
just to respond to this. Whether u believe or not, all sin is eqivalent to the other. I do agree with u it does seem wierd, but it makes sense. We are all sinners, so we sin. Now sinse sinning period is wrong, nothing from sin's nature can be right, therefore saying that if someone steals and u curse, u have no right to look at the next man a point ur fingers to condemn him because u are very much wrong. This society is all screwed up, they try to make one sin seem harmless while the other despicable. u based ur opinion on a flesh point of view, try seeing it through God's eyes. Do u think he is going to let some people slide from their sin and condemn the other.....no? S [quote]o just think about it His way and not urs....

But what if the sin doesnt affect anybody badly- like taking a pen??
What about the ones that dont interfere with anything?
What if your sinning to to help others out??? like taking some bread to give to starving children???
Sex before marriage is classed as a sin but what you you have sex before you where married, then ended up marrrying that person and living happily ever after...what happens then??? That sin is onyl between two people and its not affecting anyone else so why shoudl they be looked down upon that same way a murderer is?

Whenever someone sins, there are two forms of consequences - the consequences that affect us and those around us immediately, and the consequence of putting up a barrier with God. The first set of consequences can change. Stealing someone's pen or stealing someone's new car, for example. The human response is different, the consequences are different.

From an eternal perspective though, we have sinned, simple as that. And as a result of this, we have broken the relationship with God. And the only way that it can be reforged is for God to come down and repair it, put a bridge there, so to speak. Christians believe God did this approximately 2000 years ago by sending a guy named Jesus to repair the relationship. Now for anyone who accepts that Jesus did indeed do this, all they need to do is....... walk across the bridge that jesus built.

Is it possible that the 'bridge' is meant to be the act of following Jesus' teachings, and not the act of calling Jesus your lord and savior?

From a logical perspective, I would think so. But I haven't read the bible cover to cover.

Very well said.

LOL don't pay any attention to me I'm just being a piggy-backer.

As you were, soldiers.

I remeber when i was told about the "bridge" and it changed my outlook on church and is the reason why i dont go and dont feel bad that i dont go to church but can still say i believe. I was told people got to church to be saved and to have God accept them, when its in fact only you who have help save yourself and you need to believe in Jesus before God can take you into his life as Jesus was his son. If you dont believe in Jesus, how can God accept you truely belive in him??

In a sense, you are correct. Jesus does teach that we are to 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' (Matthew 22:37). And he also says that "I (Jesus) am the Way, the Truth and the Life - no one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6). These passages are talking about following Yahweh, the God of the Israelites. The only way to follow Jesus' teachings is to come to Yahweh through him.

But I think you were referring to his other teachings, the teachings to care for your neighbours, love your enemies, be honest, that kind of thing. These are all good things to do, and indeed everyone can do them, but they do not guarantee ones salvation. These are works, things people do. We are not saved by works, not by anything we ourselves do, but by the gift of God (cf Ephesians 2:8-10, for example).

We are not saved by works, not by anything we ourselves do, but by the gift of God (cf Ephesians 2:8-10, for example).


Pa ther doesn't seem to be much incentive to be a good person according to this passage....what are you saved by if you don't mind me asking and why are you in need of saving????

Sheri, you really should read the passages you quote:


The incentive to do good is Love for God and the freedom to be who we were always meant to be, and to do the work God actually prepared for us to do.

We are saved by grace through faith.

Son do you know what grace is????not a cookie cutter version but the essence of grace???? just asking???

I don't know, I think you're right PA, but I also think it's sort of a backward perspective too. We know that we as humans are sinful. We do stuff we shouldn't.... everyone does.

As a Christian, I try hard to live my life the way it should be lived, with tolerance, love, honor, respect, and carrying out Gods plan for me. however, I no longer concern myself with the central concept of "salvation" because dwelling on the topic seems to hinder my ability to do God's work. I've come to the notion that my salvation will be what it is and at God's judging when the time comes, and I am willing and able to accept that responsibility whatever it might be. Once I let go of that central idea and obsession over Salvation, I was free to do the work that was set upon me and do it without fear of any kind. Up until the last few years, I spent a lot of time second guessing myself, since I realized that in order to do God's work, I had to let a preoccupation with Salvation go.

And maybe this is in line with your thinking as well... I just find that Christian preoccupation with salvation leads to wrong paths on so many levels. To me, Christianity and religions are about here, now, and our role on this earth and Gods plan for us and our concious ability to avoid sin. Sin is a no brainer, we know when we've messed up in most cases... To me, the religious experience is not about what kind of prize we get at the end.