Reincarnation, literally "to be made flesh again", is a doctrine or mystical belief that some essential part of a living being (in some variations only human beings) survives death to be reborn in a new body. This essential part is often referred to as the Spirit or Soul, the 'Higher or True Self', 'Divine Spark', 'I' or the 'Ego' (not to be confused with the ego as defined by psychology). According to such beliefs, a new personality is developed during each life in the physical world, but some part of the being remains constantly present throughout these successive lives as well.

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation


There are some very bizzare stories of reincarnation I have heard that made me take a second look at this. I'm still very skeptical but it is a good theory. what are some of your views on this? also do any of you have any stories yourselves? thanks

i believe reincarnation is certainly a possibility. i read a book called life before life and reincarnation definitely sounds possible. i wouldnt mind being reincarnated myself so long as i didnt get reincarnated into a religious fanatic.

I am deeply convinced of Reincarnation. To me, it's the only thing that really makes sense- of a lot of things. I find though that a lot of people struggle with the concept because they have the wrong ideas about it. Firstly, (Always in my opinion, of course) you cannot reincarnate into a "lesser evolved" being, so you can't be reincarnated as an animal. The other idea that puts people off is that they lose their identity once they end a specific life, but that's not true either. The personality you live is always you, but the outside circumstances of a certain life will emphasize certain aspects that you need to integrate. It's like a slice of an orange, but not the whole orange. As to why we "need" to reincarnate, in a nutshell: It's a sort of evolutionar path of the soul. At the beginning, there was just Oneness, let's call it "the source", seems to be in fashion at the moment; a divine singularity, if you will. For reasons unknown to me, God "exploded", if you will, into a myriad sparks of life, or souls...(it sounds a bit simplistic, but I'll just stick with the common terms we're used to). All of us sparks are separate now, and this separateness is painful - we all know about that- (just to complicate things, all this actually happens within the Divine "entity & at the same time without...you know how these mystics are, you can never have it nice & easy). Anyhoo, to return to Oneness, we must become one again with everything, and that means we must be everything there is, and we can only do that by experiencing everyhting there is, become it.

I don't really have a clear idea as what we were up to before we entered the world of matter; maybe we were just floating around in other dimensions as mere energy- or thought-forms, but, at some point it seems neccessary to pass the stage of matter, e.g. for the soul to have a body, a vessel, to be tied & limited to physicality. If you compare it with water in a vase, it makes sense: water in itself is not structured enough to keep a shape, it needs definition & containment through a vessel.

So the journey begins. From a simple spark of "I am, I am alive & I want to keep it that way", we slowly evolve consciousness over a myriad of lives, working ourselves up the evolutionary ladder. Yes, you heard correctly. I firmly believe that we worked our way all the way up from amoebas, bacteria, (plants?) insects, amphibians, birds, mammals...you get the picture...The physical shape will always reflect the energy of the consciousness. Ultimately, everything in the universe can be expressed as energy, right?
And once we have permeated, integrated & consciously experienced everything that there is on this (physical) level, we'll move on other realms. Until we're all there is again, simply put, and will return to the source...along these lines.

What is important to understand, IMO, is that KArma is NOT a Punishment/Reward system. That's just a hangover we carry with us from lives lived in other religions. Karma is about EXPERIENCE, nothing more, nothing less.

As an example, if you look at physics, for every action there is a reaction to make it complete. And of course, now comes the famous example of the pendulum: If it swings first in one direction, it is forced to swing into the other. What I mean is, most people associate Karma with punishment because, as a rule, there is first an action, an active deed. At the other end there is necessarily soemone/thing on the passive, receiving end. And as our most basic, primeval instinct is agression (in a non-judgmental way: action, an OUTWARD movement) a lot of Karma "triggered" by agression is seen as punishment. But it's just the equalizing experience neccessary for completion. In a very simple example: If you hit someone, you will NEED to experience to be hit, to have completion. Equally, if you hug someone, you need to get hugged to understand the full experience. Terribly daft examples, I know, but ...

So Karma can be seen more as a fundamental law of "metaphysics", a cosmic spiritual mechanism, if you will. But there is no reward system attached, no judging, no damnation- It is our feelings of guilt that project that into it. It is OUR SOULS who want to grow & learn, our own innate sense of compassion that spurns us on; Often, the biggest stumbling stone are our own feelings of guilt & remorse; The universe has forgiven us before we even committed our sundry "sins".

Regarding more practical questions: Most of us spend a variable amount of time "elsewhere" in between reincarnations. Partly to rest & rcharg e- living is exhausting- and to revise & stock take what's been happening & where we wanna go from there, which experiences we need to tackle, etc. Then we'll reincarnate in the required setting - our physical body, talents, parents, cultural & economical background, etc), & off we go again. The reason why we don't remember most of our past life is pretty obvious to me: too overwhelming & too distracting. It's a protective mechanism the same way our memory operates now. You don't wanna vividly remember every bloody thing that happened to you- traumatic...

What else...yes, a lot of time you meet the same people again - unfinished business- but not all the time- there's all kinds of karmic mechanisms...too complex for now....

If you wanna have an idea where & how you've lived, you can get a pretty good feel for it if you have a look at which cultures, epochs of history, decades, countries, lifestyles you have a strong emotional reaction to, have been fascinated with, especially as a child. You can develop quite a good Karma-dar, if you practise a bit. You just have to be honest about your feelings. A lot of unexplicable phobias & fears are karmic in nature - especially as to how we've died at some time or other- logical, dying is pretty traumatic. I, for example, have always been petrified of narrow, dark spaces, being buried alive...(a coalmine or something like that...)

As to personal experience, I have a pretty good general idea of what I've been up to, but I haven't done any past-life regression-tricky thing- I had one spontaneous "recall" once, very banal, many years ago; I was on my way to school, just entering the building, and suddenly, from one second to the other, I was sitting in a medieval room, dark, smokey, lots of dark beams, narrow ceiling, very poor, a rough, wooden table & on it a wooden bowl with some kind of steaming gruel. It was hyper-real; I could smell the smoke & the food, the roughness of the wooden spoon, sense the sparse shaft of light coming in from a small window; I knew, although I couldn't look out, that outside were narrow, dark alleys between high houses, and that it was in the centre of a medieval town; maybe Flanders, or northern Germany...
It only lasted for a few seconds...then I was back entering the school....weird.

Well, I think that post is long enough now ! Hope it helps...feel free to ask anything more specific if you want

PS: For anyone not believing in Reincarnation, I am completely aware that there is no proof of anything I've written whatsoever & that all can be explained by "natural" phenomena & from a strictly scientific standpoint I completely accept the possibility that this could all be a figment of my imagination born out of my denial to be mortal. So, you can save yourself a post ...

This being my first post as a 5 minute old new dude, i dont believe in reincarnation in the concept of you must or will come back. However, i do believe that under certain circumstances, one has to come back so as to perhaps complete a task or whatever. If you have access to a book entitled "Feeding the flame" by Dr. T. Lobsang Rampa. and read up from page 82 to 86, you will be pleasantly surprised at the paralels.

EG: President Lincoln elected to office 1860........ President Kennedy in1960. Both have 7 letters in name.
Assasinated at a show on a friday........ also at a show and assasinated on a friday both shot in the back.
Both were succeeded by Presidents Johnson who were both from the south and democrat members of the senate.
Both Johnsons born on the same year of the century, first one 1808, second 1908.
Same with the assassins, born 1839 and 1939 and both killed before going to trial. Both have 15 letters in name.
Both wives lost a child in office.
Lincoln had a secretary called Kennedy, Kennedy had a secretary called Lincoln.

That`s enough, i can go on to the other 2 pages too but i think you got the message here.
Ceeya.

Reincarnation is intriuging to me, however I do not know if I am entirely convinced of it. I am on the fence about everything though. I do like the idea--however, like any thought of the afterlife I think it's an attractive idea because it means you never truely die. I also think it is a bit unattractive because you are not really "yourself" It is definitely interesting and I always like hearing stories about it. Still skeptical.

Chucksown, welcome to UM.

I feel that it doesn't exist.

I feel it does exist.

i do not believe in reincarnation because it is the return of a living thing in a completely different state, such as a person is now a butterfly, etc.etc....
i believe in resurrection, which will be my soul (spirit) returns to my glorified body at a future time through the redeeming assurance of Jesus Christ.

randomhit10

Mad, i just had a weird one. To me reincarnation has always been a nice idea, it has some similarities with my views of transitions of consciousness. I just a minute ago out of interest looked up what incarnate and incarnation means in the dictionary just to see what other definitions there were.

incarnate ~ http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incarnate

incarnation ~ http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incarnation

I found it very interesting that at the bottom of the definitions of incarnate, one of the definitions was
This definition is not actually about taking a human form, but a realization of what is (fact) or to be (action).

Then when i looked up incarnation one of the definitions was
If incarnate is a realization of what is and incarnation is the state of just being incarnate (what is) and our fundamental state of being is consciousness, then perhaps the term reincarnation is not defining what we traditionally percieve it to be at all. I wonder if it is just a word that refers to the transition of consciousness that takes place when we die without all the "who ha" of entering new bodies. The "re" representing that transition back to our pure state of consciousness (what is and being).

HA HAAA wouldnt that be ironic, if for so long, so many people religious leaders and all had misinterpretted the true teachings of Buddhism...LMAO!!...just a thought

Good point there nn23, however i believe that our pure state is the state of no connection to the material world. When leaving the material world, depending on your kharma, there seems to be no time factor by which one must return. So a good spiritual being may remain for an unknown time period of maybe hundreds of years to us, but still be able to come back into hundreds of years before us. Keep in mind there is no time factor involved in the pure state and coming back depends on what your soul still requires to be taught so as to reach the highest order.
I am no expert on this and my knowledge is based on what i have read up on in the many books i have on these topics, so we all learn from each other. Just a quick word to those who disbelieve or still question the state of their soul after passing over, "can you imagine a state of nothingness within yourself ?" no you can`t. So there is life after life or rather life after death. There is no death of the soul ever.

I was refering to my beliefs in non duality. The one pure state there is which encompasses everything is consciousness, when we die, our consciousness becomes pure for it is no longer limited to the material world. In my mind references to individual soul states, are a little like dividing infinity.

This is what i feel is meant by "what is" and "being". So reincarnation is refering to the transition of consciousness and perhaps not a transition of physical being.

In theory, that is the goal of reincarnation. It is merely another process (a means to an end) for one to be in a state of yoga, to accept "what is," for one to just be, while on Earth. Again, it is only a theory, until one actually becomes aware of one's endeavors, one's "spiritual" adventures..., to hopefully move on, not repeat one's painful mistakes and so on. And in the end, everything is meant to be. Nothing is a mistake. The world is a perfect machinery to polish us like gemstones. Besides, we are eternal, that I know 300%, absolutely. There is no death. And one doesn't need to be Christian (or any religion for that matter) to survive it. But physical decay, yes. Personal problems, yes. Bills, yes. Annoyances, yes, always, as long as one is on this Earth, but hopefully, one will learn how to accept and move on. In theory, for now...

Earthly reality is very potent, indeed, regardless of its ephemeral nature, and if one just shines it, then one should better be prepared... It just is, regardless of billion reincarnations.

Why is there such a common misconception of living life over and again then? Surely, we are forever being, and at one with eternity. This is the incarnation being refered to, pure consciousness. The re is refering to the transition of the body, but consciousness remains whether we live or die for it is one and all, within everything.

Interesting twist on reincarnation, nn

Out of interest, would you consider this reincarnation into a 'pure consciousness' being the losing of personal identity? This, if I'm not mistaken, is part of the core of non-dualism is it not? That everything is actually just one and what we experience as consciousness is simply a fractured part of that?

Until one is truly aware that one is "one with eternity," everything is in theory. This world has a way of taking us to deeper levels of consciousness. One simply cannot say, "at one with eternity," and yet, ignore what is given at the monent. We have to deal with what's in front of us, always. We have to prove it to ourselves that we are worthy of knowing and being "one with eternity." As a true human being, one has conscience, as well. It is one of the many driving forces in one's relative reality. We also have goals and so on. Basically, we really have to know life in total, to even begin to claim that we are "one with eternity." I've met people who could actually claim it, but they don't. Frankly, they don't need to say anything because one could feel their "presence." They have "presence" versus a person who is merely in the mind whirl. One will be polished by this world, as long as one walks this Earth. It is what gives one "presence."

Just a theory.

Hey Leo, cheers

This has been a new angle for me to look at it, i have been wanting to read up in more depth on buddhism for a while, but i started reading Quantum Psychology instead, i believe that the incarnation refers to our consciousness and the re, refers to the change in our physical state. It is a word to bring comprehension of consciousness to those who require it. mmm, this is what is a little amusing if my interpretations are feasable, some people take many buddhist concepts quite literally, but it might not be that at all.

There is no identity to lose within nondualism.

How can being one and all with eternity be limited by a requirement?


Who do we have to prove this too? eternity? How can one and all possibly divide value if it is the sum of infinity?


To describe my understanding, life's total can only be found when you trace all your driving forces back to their source, consciousness, which is all and one and eternal. Your driving forces themselves lead you away from their source, to the fulfillment of material needs and aspirations, and not the other way round.


To describe my understanding, someone who is one and all with eternity is no different from any other person, other than their recognition of it, it is our thoughts and judgments that create the differentiation.

There is a quirky little zen saying that i am quoting from memory so i may not have it exact and i do not remember who said it but here it is.

Before enlightenment, fetch water chop wood, after enlightenment, fetch water chop wood.

NICE ONE!!
nn23

What I'm gathering from you is that you are already "enlightened." Is this so?

I, on the other hand, still live in theory since I'm still here on Earth..., even if I've experienced what many saints and mystics have come to realized...

I've read some, not many, "spiritual" and/or metaphysical books in long past, but I simply don't buy many of the propaganda going around. I believe in personal experience, not just words. It's so easy to quote books, second-hand knowledge. The problem lies in the fact that many people bought into someone else's definition of "enlightenment." They stop there, or I should say, they got stuck there.

Again, it is never over, until it is really over.

I described what i understood, how did you gather that i am already enlightened?

I quite agree, this is the root of my original point

...although i do not see a problem or fact in many people buying into someone elses definition because i do not know what other people are thinking, and a problem of this context is only a problem if you choose it to be so

To describe my understanding, enlightenment is a silly word that turns a recognition of ones self into some sort of aspirative goal. It is not something people need to work towards or aspire to because they already are, they just do not recognise this...this was what i felt the zen quote portrayed quite nicely.


To describe my understanding, it never ends it just changes.

NICE ONE!!!
nn23

I (as everyone knows by now) deeply believe in rebirth/reincarnation. I've lived throughtout history of this planet. From Ancient Egypt to now. Died from diseases to being runover. You can say, I've been killed every possible way. Lived all ways of life. Royality to being a normal everyday person.

Reincarnation is possible. High possible. Since a lot of people seem to recovering memories nowdays.

NN23, good show, you are way past the level that you believe yourself to be. Keep that up but seek out reading matter from a reputable source and known authors. Try astral travel, it is easy iffff you believe in yourself and really enjoy your
untapped powers from deep within. I have been reading and collecting anything i could get on spirituality an d have a huge collection of mind empowerment and self-realisation books and whatever else. Also, i have had a quick entry into my already aware astral being by having a head-on collision with a bus with a motorcycle. I was fairly sad on waking up 3 weeks later as i had a fantastic time getting around. This did help and lifted me higher into being able to do this at will whenever i wished. Try to see auras of others, or just get the right training litrature and expand your mind. Many years ago it was quite natural to do this, we have just become so engrosed in life in suburbia. Give your mind what it needs, free it to wander. Once again, i am no fundi, i am what i have lived to be.

Thanks chucksown.

By the fervor of your conviction. Again, in my belief system, "until one is truly aware that one is truly 'one with eternity,' everything is in theory." There is a difference between second-hand knowledge versus concrete experience, I'm sure you know.



I respect your belief system, even if I agree or disagree, especially since I believe that you are following your own path, sincerely.

And yes, it is a problem when a person, not necessarily you, tries to force his or her belief system on me. Again, I'm in theory mode, and I'm still in the process of divorcing myself from previous, relIgious, spiritual, and philosophical doctrines. Perhaps like you (since I cannot assume completely), I'm basically following an inner calling. I could only go by it. And the world machinery has a way of polishing up my hunches. I almost always go by my experiences when it comes to my "inner work," not book reading.




Again, that's your belief system at work. And I respect that, just like I respect everyone's POV.

second-hand knowledge versus concrete experience? can the two not work in harmony with each other?

How can experience be concrete when your memories of them are but a thought?

To describe my understanding, the only true knowledge is that which is. All else is simply a description of ones understanding but not the knowledge itself.


Thanks dlv


Yes but whos problem is it? If you did feel that i was trying to force you into anything then i apologise that you felt this way and i hope you can overcome this feeling in the future.

BUT I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU MUST BELIEVE AND DO EVERYTHING I SAY.... AND FEED ME GRAPES MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
(jk)


The truth is beyond words.

Good luck in your journey dude, i hope you find what your looking for

NICE ONE!!!
nn23

I have dipped in and out of the belief in reincarnation several times in the past. Currently, I am a bit skeptical about it (but open to persuasion). The problem is, it can't be proven. Even if you related an account of a supposed previous life in minute detail, and it was verified historically, it still doesn't prove that it was actually you living that life. You may have just tapped into the mindset of that person and absorbed his experiences.

As far as being reincarnated as an animal or insect because of past misdeeds is concerned, I intuitively find that a bit silly. It just makes life something like a game of snakes and ladders. I believe a human being has a human soul and always remains so. An insect cannot migrate upwards to becoming a human soul, and a human soul cannot migrate downwards to becoming an insect.

Yes, you are so right, you stay in your spiritual form. Whoever believes otherwise is either a complete idiot or a person who makes statements without thought or knowledge on a subject that they should not get into. Do more research with a more open mind and look at it from all angles without concetrating on one particular case. Maybe it will help to focus more on the spiritual posibilities than particular case studies.

one thing is for sure...we will all find out one day...i do think that we are not intended to know all things because it would definitely change how a lot of people act in this life...instead of being a our choice...

randomhit10

Peace to you, always.

Oh no - not this old "reincarnation" discussion AGAIN.

I thought we put this one to bed in our previous discussion thread back in 1827. (and again in 1903, and again in 1965).

Meow Purr.

I believe in Reincarnation, as I have had strange things in my own life which I feel would point to a bleedthrough of a past life. I had these unexplainable thngs happen to me as a very young girl. I often have dreams of that life in which I see people I have never seen before. I also feel from what I've seen in my father, that we may have shared a past life.

I have a book that I've read that has to do with children's experiences with Past Life Memories. In the past I've also been able to do past life profiles for a few friends of mine.

These past life bleedthroughs occur more often than we would think.

Yes, funny how it keeps resurrecting itself. By the way, were you that Siamese cat I met in 1250 BC? I was the scruffy looking mongrel with fleas.

Wouldn't "heaven" or "hell" or "purgatory" be terribly overcrowded by now considering the number of people who have been there ages before we ever came into being? In any event..I was once told by a friend "An eternity of anything would come to seem like hell after a while."

White just isnt my colour

hehehehehe

Our souls are all a part of a higher form, and that higher form could perhaps have more than one part in a material body so there may be 20 people all of one higher being. As for the time factor, there is no time factor on the astral plain.

Now that I have more time to answer..., here I go.

Again, until you are truly aware that you are "one with eternity," you could only go by someone else's theory and/or your mind-created assumptions. You said: "How can being one and all with eternity be limited by a requirement?" The thing is nn23: How do you know you are one with eternity since you also mentioned that you are not "enlightened," yet? Again, you are only going by a theory, just like the rest in this world. You are only going by your (mental) understanding, nothing really concrete. You bought into your own assumptions plus book-knowledge. You already have a mental construct that a thing "never ends it just changes." That's fine, I'm not judging you. Again, we, all of us, could only go by theory. In my belief system, "it is never over, until it is really over." That could change, and I'm always open to new logical theories.

In my belief system, my mind has to prove it to itself, completely, without a doubt, with no ifs nor buts. My earthly mind has to sync with that "consciousness" or "essence" (for lack of a better word or limited vocabulary to describe the undescribable), the one who survives the body after it is dead and buried. Once that's done, I move on to a new reality, if I'm still on earth, or back on earth. And so far, there is still this something inside who keeps pushing me to move forward, that things are still not quite right, and that many people from the past and present have merely settled for less, settling for less.

It is the reason why I'm trying to divorce myself from past, archaic teachings to hopefully find a doorway (or many leads for that matter).



I've heard that theory before, but since I'm still on Earth, it is not enough for me. This theory is still within the mind construct.



Assuming that this person got his or her "enlightenment."

The part about Lincoln and Kennedy is a well known urban legend check it out here:::http://www.snopes.com/history/american/lincoln-kennedy.asp

Since I'm not "enlightened," yet, and whatever "enlightenment" is all about, I could only go by my deep-seated hunch. Perhaps, this final experience is the one I'm looking for, for me to not reincarnate again and again and again -- who knows??? After this life cycle, I really don't want to come back again. I, for one, have not seen a great master rise up from the grave to tell me all about on how to achieve "TRUE" freedom, the final release from death and rebirth. No one in the history of the world has ever done that. Everything we know today is but a theory, nothing concrete, hearsay, second-hand knowledge.



I used to think that, and I'm still waiting for "that which is," that final release. While on Earth, I could only go by what's in front of me, the polishing nature of the universe. But, I also believe that it's meant for something, not just a useless process. Again, my posts are just my belief system. As I said earlier, I respect everyone's POV since we are all in the same boat, including Jesus Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, Ramakrishna, and so on.

For the soul time is an illusion, all lives exist at once

In theory.

Reincarnation says that if you lived 5 lives, you go to hell over the 4 evil lives you lived that you didn't know about. now who believes?

I don't believe in reincarnation..

Hey man, dont know where you got that from but do yourself a favour and avoid that crap, besides if you still believe in hell then you are so lost and have a long way to go before commenting on the subject.

I think El Zilcho was just joking.
Reincarnation is just another belief, and I suspect, not much improvement on believing that you go to hell when you die. At the end of the day (or your life) all you've got are your personal beliefs and hopes. No one can prove otherwise. Personally, I hope and trust there will be something better on the other side. If there is no other side, just oblivion, then it doesn't really matter, does it?

well, to help you proove that reincarnation might very well be possible here's an idea for you...

Before we were born we were, as far as we know, nothing, however we were still born thus creating, from our points of view, something from nothing. Now when we die we re-enter this state of nothing, what is to say that we cannot be born again? Seeing as we are in exactly the same state of nothing, i think its perfectly reasonable to assume that we can be born again after carking it.

But when the soul comes out 'again' from nothing, how can it be the same soul? Surely, it is a new soul? Even if it did come out of nothing (again), wouldn't all its memory banks be completely erased - which contracticts the basic theory of reincarnation - accumulating experiences from life to life to learn from.
It is interesting what you are saying, however, as I have puzzled about this as well.

One thing is for certain and I could actually say this absolutely, 300%: THERE IS LIFE AFTER DEATH, regardless on whether you believe in Christ or not, Buddha, Allah, etc. Your consciousness doesn't die... BUT, ending the cycle of death and rebirth is another matter. Somehow, there always seems to be an excuse to come back (to this planet) again and again and again...

Ask the question "what or who reicarnates". When this is answered the question is made invalid.