I want people to reply to this post with questions about certain conspiracies against the Freemasons.
The one question that I WILL NOT permit is anything about the Illuminati. Why? Because they were disbanded in 1785, 10 years after its conception in Bavaria. How do I know? Because records will show of cases brought against the so called Illuminati members that might have existed i 1780-1785. The Illuminati are not greatly mentions(or even mentioned at all) in the workings of the Freemasons. It was a small and secluded group of unorganized peoples.
Now throw me your questions. And make them questions that aren't...silly.
Full Version: Freemasons and the Illuminati
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > News, Media & World Events > Conspiracies & Secret Societies
Why are women not allowed to enter the ritual room while a ritual is taking place (unless it is public), but if a male mason wants to enter a ritual room of the eastern star while it is taking place, it is completely fine.
You have to realize that there are questions that cant be answered unless you cite things that you should not be speaking about. The rituals are left for anyone that has not gone through them to speculate. However, I will say that most initiations and any ceremonies done by the Freemasons are done like they were done 300 years ago.
The Freemasons were not, at first, a mixed gender organization.
I also want to add that I asked to ask questions about any conspiracies people might have about the Freemasons. I WANT people that really believe the conspiracy. It's usually a misunderstanding.
The Freemasons were not, at first, a mixed gender organization.
I also want to add that I asked to ask questions about any conspiracies people might have about the Freemasons. I WANT people that really believe the conspiracy. It's usually a misunderstanding.
QUOTE(Sadonis @ May 13 2007, 01:26 AM) [snapback]1672317[/snapback]
You have to realize that there are questions that cant be answered unless you cite things that you should not be speaking about. The rituals are left for anyone that has not gone through them to speculate. However, I will say that most initiations and any ceremonies done by the Freemasons are done like they were done 300 years ago.
The Freemasons were not, at first, a mixed gender organization.
I also want to add that I asked to ask questions about any conspiracies people might have about the Freemasons. I WANT people that really believe the conspiracy. It's usually a misunderstanding.
The Freemasons were not, at first, a mixed gender organization.
I also want to add that I asked to ask questions about any conspiracies people might have about the Freemasons. I WANT people that really believe the conspiracy. It's usually a misunderstanding.
Hate to tell you, but the whole secrecy or death thing went out the window when Al Gore invented the internet. You can find nearly everything you want to know about masons and their rituals online. Especially the initiation ritual
.But thanks to my ex being high priest of the york right at a certain lodge, I know all too well about the freemasons and their 'conspiracies'.
Anyhoo, my question was legitimate, not a conspiracy but a legitimate question, and thank you for simi-answering it.
Why do you not allow atheists to join your organization?
QUOTE(Sadonis @ May 13 2007, 05:23 AM) [snapback]1672259[/snapback]
I want people to reply to this post with questions about certain conspiracies against the Freemasons.
Without wishing to sound impertinent, what qualifies you to answer them?
First off, I have to second coughymachine's question.
Secondly, try actually answering the questions put forth. You completely sidestepped the very first one...
__________________________
Empress Star, the Freemasons were started and have remained a male-only organization**. When there was a LOT of push-back by their lady-wives, the Freemasons started their version of the "Ladies Auxiliary" and created the Order of the Eastern Star. It is subordinate to the Lodge, which explains why the Masons can visit OES meetings and not vice versa.
The secrecy or death thing was out long before the interweb was created by Gore. Even Captain Morgan and the Morgan Affair were late-comers to the "I'm gonna spill the beans" bandwagon. Though, I have to agree that even with a small amount of Google-fu will reveal everything.
__________________________
Affliction, the reason we don't allow Atheists in the Lodge is because of the Oaths or Obligations we take. The three Oaths are very important to what we do, and to seal the candidate's agreement to keep the secrets and be a good guy, we swear to a Higher Power. An Atheist doesn't have that ability - as they don't believe in Higher Powers of any flavor. Then, much of the ritual is historically, biblically based... as in: the building/rebuilding of King Solomon's Temple. This would make Atheists quite uncomfortable, and we are all about keeping our members comfortable... harmony being the base of all institutions, especially this.
_____________________
** Please ignore, for a moment, the Co-Masonry lodges that exist.
Secondly, try actually answering the questions put forth. You completely sidestepped the very first one...
__________________________
Empress Star, the Freemasons were started and have remained a male-only organization**. When there was a LOT of push-back by their lady-wives, the Freemasons started their version of the "Ladies Auxiliary" and created the Order of the Eastern Star. It is subordinate to the Lodge, which explains why the Masons can visit OES meetings and not vice versa.
The secrecy or death thing was out long before the interweb was created by Gore. Even Captain Morgan and the Morgan Affair were late-comers to the "I'm gonna spill the beans" bandwagon. Though, I have to agree that even with a small amount of Google-fu will reveal everything.
__________________________
Affliction, the reason we don't allow Atheists in the Lodge is because of the Oaths or Obligations we take. The three Oaths are very important to what we do, and to seal the candidate's agreement to keep the secrets and be a good guy, we swear to a Higher Power. An Atheist doesn't have that ability - as they don't believe in Higher Powers of any flavor. Then, much of the ritual is historically, biblically based... as in: the building/rebuilding of King Solomon's Temple. This would make Atheists quite uncomfortable, and we are all about keeping our members comfortable... harmony being the base of all institutions, especially this.
_____________________
** Please ignore, for a moment, the Co-Masonry lodges that exist.
QUOTE(Sadonis @ May 13 2007, 07:23 AM) [snapback]1672259[/snapback]
I want people to reply to this post with questions about certain conspiracies against the Freemasons.
The one question that I WILL NOT permit is anything about the Illuminati. Why? Because they were disbanded in 1785, 10 years after its conception in Bavaria. How do I know? Because records will show of cases brought against the so called Illuminati members that might have existed i 1780-1785. The Illuminati are not greatly mentions(or even mentioned at all) in the workings of the Freemasons. It was a small and secluded group of unorganized peoples.
Now throw me your questions. And make them questions that aren't...silly.
The one question that I WILL NOT permit is anything about the Illuminati. Why? Because they were disbanded in 1785, 10 years after its conception in Bavaria. How do I know? Because records will show of cases brought against the so called Illuminati members that might have existed i 1780-1785. The Illuminati are not greatly mentions(or even mentioned at all) in the workings of the Freemasons. It was a small and secluded group of unorganized peoples.
Now throw me your questions. And make them questions that aren't...silly.
Excuse - me , ... and you are ...?
Were the Stonemasons who built King Solomon’s Temple Jewish or Christian?
Were the Stonemasons made Holy men before, after or while they where constructing King Solomon’s Temple ?
What was/is Palladium?
Did the freemasons cause the French Revolution ?
Were the Masons working with the French resistance in WWII ?
Are most freemasons Police, Lawyers etc and are Freemasons obliged to "help" their Masonic brother when he's in trouble with the law?
Who do freemasons give allegiance to, Queen, God or the Grand Master Mason ?
Has or would a Freemason be aloud to remain a Freemason if they were a member of the KKK or such "organisation"?
If no one knows who is a freemason how can we be sure they do not have ulterior motives and agenda, is their a body that overseas lodge practise (Is Freemasonry corrupt)?
Why do freemasons use the satanic symbols like the pentagram?
Is it true to Say there has been more US presidents that are Freemasons compared to Presidents who have not been Freemasons?
Were the Stonemasons made Holy men before, after or while they where constructing King Solomon’s Temple ?
What was/is Palladium?
Did the freemasons cause the French Revolution ?
Were the Masons working with the French resistance in WWII ?
Are most freemasons Police, Lawyers etc and are Freemasons obliged to "help" their Masonic brother when he's in trouble with the law?
Who do freemasons give allegiance to, Queen, God or the Grand Master Mason ?
Has or would a Freemason be aloud to remain a Freemason if they were a member of the KKK or such "organisation"?
If no one knows who is a freemason how can we be sure they do not have ulterior motives and agenda, is their a body that overseas lodge practise (Is Freemasonry corrupt)?
Why do freemasons use the satanic symbols like the pentagram?
Is it true to Say there has been more US presidents that are Freemasons compared to Presidents who have not been Freemasons?
Now those are good questions!!
Were the Stonemasons who built King Solomon’s Temple Jewish or Christian?
Obviously, since the building of the temple was before the time of the Christ, they were either Jewish or other non-Christian faiths. There is at least a little evidence to say that some were Babylonian and some were Greek, so those faiths would have been present as well.
Were the Stonemasons made Holy men before, after or while they where constructing King Solomon’s Temple ?
They weren't made "Holy men" at all. There was, however, a promise made to all Craftsmen there, that when the Temple was completed, that they would be declared "Masters" and be presented with the proper credentials. This would mean a significant increase in wealth for future works.
What was/is Palladium?
All part of the Great Hoax by Leo Taxil. See this page for more information. The page is quick to load, and when it's done, do a search for "Palladium", and it will take you to the Hoax section. Unfortunately, Taxil has hurt Freemasonry more than he ever really wanted to - due to people's inability to research for themselves, and believing his original story without ever hearing his retractions.
Did the Freemasons cause the French Revolution ?
There is no evidence that Freemasonry was involved, although the things the peasantry were revolting to gain have been long held as Truths in Freemasonry (equality, democracy, etcetera). Personally, I am sure that there were some Freemasons involved - but not as official 'organizers', but as participants (like a Freemason being on a Baseball team... he's "involved", but not an "organizer")... but that is my personal opinion. To say that Freemasons caused the Revolution is like saying that school teachers caused it... because there were some teachers in the mobs that stormed the Bastille.
Were the Masons working with the French resistance in WWII ?
Same as the above answer. I am sure there were - but not on an organized basis.
Are most freemasons Police, Lawyers etc and are Freemasons obliged to "help" their Masonic brother when he's in trouble with the law?
Not in the least. Sure, some MAY, but we follow the same laws as everyone else, and if we were caught, we'd go to the same jail as everyone else. We are encouraged to patronize companies or businesses that are owned by Freemasons, but this runs the same way as "Firehouse Subs", a Florida based business that was started by some firefighters... and local firefighters are recommended to eat lunches there... or a church encouraging its members to go to "church friendly" businesses.
Who do freemasons give allegiance to, Queen, God or the Grand Master Mason ?
We are citizens of the world. As an American, I Pledge my Allegiance to the US Flag and am expected to be a "good citizen". We are told that every Grand Lodge in every country is supposed to be doing the same... to prevent "bad press" by being involved in politics and such. In the Charges, we are instructed to be model citizens of our home country and support her in her ideals, and that Freemasonry doesn't get involved in political struggle.
Has or would a Freemason be aloud to remain a Freemason if they were a member of the KKK or such "organisation"?
I would doubt it, though I am sure there are some that are members. In the investigation process that is conducted prior to joining, affiliation in groups like this would probably be revealed - and new members must be recommended by at least one member in good standing - which means that the member KNOWS the new guy. I would think that in today's society, very, VERY few are members of groups like that. And before anyone jumps at my "omission", yes, I am fully aware that the founder of the KKK was a Freemason. I also know that he was brought up on "UnMasonic" charges, and was kicked out.
If no one knows who is a freemason how can we be sure they do not have ulterior motives and agenda, is their a body that overseas lodge practise (Is Freemasonry corrupt)?
I would guess that there is no way to know - unless you ask - and then it is up to you to decide whether the answers were truthful or not. That is a very loaded question.
Why do freemasons use the satanic symbols like the pentagram?
The Pentagram is a very old symbol, and was originally used as a symbol to protect FROM the devil. It wasn't until recently (300 years or so) that the meaning was co-opted and turned "dark". The symbols are very strongly influenced by higher math, especially Geometry, and there isn't enough bandwidth to go into it all here (crap, I don't KNOW it all!!!). Google would help you out on this one.
Is it true to Say there has been more US presidents that are Freemasons compared to Presidents who have not been Freemasons?
Absolutely not. There have been 14.3 Masonic Presidents. ".3" because Lyndon Johnson entered as an Entered Apprentice (1st degree) but never continued. So, effectively there were 14. Out of 43.
Were the Stonemasons who built King Solomon’s Temple Jewish or Christian?
Obviously, since the building of the temple was before the time of the Christ, they were either Jewish or other non-Christian faiths. There is at least a little evidence to say that some were Babylonian and some were Greek, so those faiths would have been present as well.
Were the Stonemasons made Holy men before, after or while they where constructing King Solomon’s Temple ?
They weren't made "Holy men" at all. There was, however, a promise made to all Craftsmen there, that when the Temple was completed, that they would be declared "Masters" and be presented with the proper credentials. This would mean a significant increase in wealth for future works.
What was/is Palladium?
All part of the Great Hoax by Leo Taxil. See this page for more information. The page is quick to load, and when it's done, do a search for "Palladium", and it will take you to the Hoax section. Unfortunately, Taxil has hurt Freemasonry more than he ever really wanted to - due to people's inability to research for themselves, and believing his original story without ever hearing his retractions.
Did the Freemasons cause the French Revolution ?
There is no evidence that Freemasonry was involved, although the things the peasantry were revolting to gain have been long held as Truths in Freemasonry (equality, democracy, etcetera). Personally, I am sure that there were some Freemasons involved - but not as official 'organizers', but as participants (like a Freemason being on a Baseball team... he's "involved", but not an "organizer")... but that is my personal opinion. To say that Freemasons caused the Revolution is like saying that school teachers caused it... because there were some teachers in the mobs that stormed the Bastille.
Were the Masons working with the French resistance in WWII ?
Same as the above answer. I am sure there were - but not on an organized basis.
Are most freemasons Police, Lawyers etc and are Freemasons obliged to "help" their Masonic brother when he's in trouble with the law?
Not in the least. Sure, some MAY, but we follow the same laws as everyone else, and if we were caught, we'd go to the same jail as everyone else. We are encouraged to patronize companies or businesses that are owned by Freemasons, but this runs the same way as "Firehouse Subs", a Florida based business that was started by some firefighters... and local firefighters are recommended to eat lunches there... or a church encouraging its members to go to "church friendly" businesses.
Who do freemasons give allegiance to, Queen, God or the Grand Master Mason ?
We are citizens of the world. As an American, I Pledge my Allegiance to the US Flag and am expected to be a "good citizen". We are told that every Grand Lodge in every country is supposed to be doing the same... to prevent "bad press" by being involved in politics and such. In the Charges, we are instructed to be model citizens of our home country and support her in her ideals, and that Freemasonry doesn't get involved in political struggle.
Has or would a Freemason be aloud to remain a Freemason if they were a member of the KKK or such "organisation"?
I would doubt it, though I am sure there are some that are members. In the investigation process that is conducted prior to joining, affiliation in groups like this would probably be revealed - and new members must be recommended by at least one member in good standing - which means that the member KNOWS the new guy. I would think that in today's society, very, VERY few are members of groups like that. And before anyone jumps at my "omission", yes, I am fully aware that the founder of the KKK was a Freemason. I also know that he was brought up on "UnMasonic" charges, and was kicked out.
If no one knows who is a freemason how can we be sure they do not have ulterior motives and agenda, is their a body that overseas lodge practise (Is Freemasonry corrupt)?
I would guess that there is no way to know - unless you ask - and then it is up to you to decide whether the answers were truthful or not. That is a very loaded question.
Why do freemasons use the satanic symbols like the pentagram?
The Pentagram is a very old symbol, and was originally used as a symbol to protect FROM the devil. It wasn't until recently (300 years or so) that the meaning was co-opted and turned "dark". The symbols are very strongly influenced by higher math, especially Geometry, and there isn't enough bandwidth to go into it all here (crap, I don't KNOW it all!!!). Google would help you out on this one.
Is it true to Say there has been more US presidents that are Freemasons compared to Presidents who have not been Freemasons?
Absolutely not. There have been 14.3 Masonic Presidents. ".3" because Lyndon Johnson entered as an Entered Apprentice (1st degree) but never continued. So, effectively there were 14. Out of 43.
A few times I've seen the freemason sign. On their licence plates. Is that a sign of them being a freemason?
QUOTE(coughymachine @ May 13 2007, 03:03 AM) [snapback]1672567[/snapback]
Without wishing to sound impertinent, what qualifies you to answer them?
My question is the same.
Zoo York
QUOTE(Sadonis @ May 12 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]1672259[/snapback]
I want people to reply to this post with questions about certain conspiracies against the Freemasons.
The one question that I WILL NOT permit is anything about the Illuminati. Why? Because they were disbanded in 1785, 10 years after its conception in Bavaria. How do I know? Because records will show of cases brought against the so called Illuminati members that might have existed i 1780-1785. The Illuminati are not greatly mentions(or even mentioned at all) in the workings of the Freemasons. It was a small and secluded group of unorganized peoples.
Now throw me your questions. And make them questions that aren't...silly.
The one question that I WILL NOT permit is anything about the Illuminati. Why? Because they were disbanded in 1785, 10 years after its conception in Bavaria. How do I know? Because records will show of cases brought against the so called Illuminati members that might have existed i 1780-1785. The Illuminati are not greatly mentions(or even mentioned at all) in the workings of the Freemasons. It was a small and secluded group of unorganized peoples.
Now throw me your questions. And make them questions that aren't...silly.
Malruhn...
A question in that Donald Rumsfeld would be proud of:
List five genuine unknown unknowns about freemasonry (from a non-freemason's perspective, that is).
A question in that Donald Rumsfeld would be proud of:
List five genuine unknown unknowns about freemasonry (from a non-freemason's perspective, that is).
A Masonic symbol on a license plate signifies that they are a Freemason... maybe. However, here in Florida, all they wanted was their $45 to pay for the application, there was no requirement to prove affiliation at all - so I guess it is possible that a non-Mason has the plates - but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes if questioned by a member...
That would be about a 14 on the 1-to-10 scale of embarassing situations.
Coughymachine (I gotta say, that is a GREAT handle!), how is it possible to discuss the unknown because we don't know it yet? Unless of course it is one of the unknowns that we know we don't know, in which case it is just something that we don't know about.
Howzat for a Rummy answer back atcha?
For things that folks may not know, I guess it is the base idea of equality in the Lodge. We keep going on and on about how people are all equal - and that the ONLY two that aren't equal is the Master of the Lodge (who, after a year, is no longer the Master... and is then an "equal" again), and our chosen deities - who never are our equals. We are instructed to offer respect where it is due (like important people, politicos or such), but that we are to remember that even THOSE people are just people like us... the same way that the beggar and societal dreg is our equal. Everyone deserves respect - just like we do... and we should be the first and loudest to give it.
Meetings - no matter what kind (business meetings (like a regular board meeting with the reading minutes, treasurer's report, etcetera), or ritual meetings (to do the degree work)), start and end with a non-denominational prayer. It's non-denom because we don't know (or care) if a member is Christian (or which franchise), Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, or whatever, and is basically a generic feel good affair. They run through like this (paraphrased), "Father of us all, thank you for letting us all get together, and we offer our prayers to those who couldn't make it. We pray for understanding and peace in the world and in the Lodge. Thank you for giving us this chance. Amen." The parting prayer is very similar...
Regular business meetings, or what we call "Stated Meetings" are horridly boring affairs - unless you like the reading of minutes for the last XX number of meetings, voting to pay the water bill, voting to pay for a corsage for a widowed orphan, and getting the latest "Sunshine Report" of ill members and spouses. With the average age in my Lodge at 77 (no fooling!), that part is LLllllloooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnng... There is also discussion and voting on petitions for new members.
A guy wants to join. He talks to a member, who will get him a petition. When the petition is filled out, the member signs it as the "sponsor", and it is read in a Stated Meeting so an Investigation Committee can do interviews. I have heard that some Lodges do police checks (there is no requirement), some do interviews with references (again, no requirement), and some do interviews with the petitioner and his spouse (if any). If a guy really wants to join and the spouse is against it, it can be hugely detrimental to the candidate - and odds are that he will join and then drop out... and we don't want that. If a guy joins, we want him to be an active, contributing member of the group. Once the investigation is done - no matter how in depth or cursory it may be - the Committee members sign off on the petition and it goes in to the Secretary of the Lodge.
Others may be different, but my Lodge requires the Petition to be read on two different stated meetings to give members a chance to hear the name in case they miss a meeting. After the second reading, then we vote.
The balloting is secret - one of the officers walks the ballot box around - it is a covered thing that has an open drawer of white marbles and black cubes. If a member sees no reason to keep the petitioner out, he grabs a white marble and drops it into a little slot that hides what was dropped (so you don't know if the last guy voted yes or no). If the member has a valid reason to keep the petitioner out, he grabs a black cube (sugar cube size), and drops that in. It used to be a black marble (ball), and started the use of the saying "being black-balled" out of a group. Because of this, we started using the black cube about 40 years ago. Other jurisdictions still use the black balls... (I think England does, but I'm not sure). If all the votes are white, the petitioner becomes a candidate. Just ONE negative vote is enough to keep a petitioner out, so the vote has to be unanimous.
Once the new candidate starts the ritual process, he is officially a "Freemason", but not a "Master Mason." Yeah, to the outsider it sounds pretty petty, but to us it is like the difference between... well, a substititute teacher and a professor. It takes a Master Mason to be an officer in the Lodge, and in many Lodges, First and Second degree Masons can't even come to general business meetings, so they are kind of out in the cold.
One of the things that is in the Entered Apprentice (1st degree) Charge (operation orders), is the stricture to not engage doubters and nay-sayers in useless argument... I do actually take that one to heart - but I have very rarely run into "useless" arguments. Hey, if everyone at the table agrees, then there is no reason to be at the table, is there?
The candidate goes through an elaborate ritual that talks about some great myths about where the Freemasons came from. Afterwards, there is a lecture that goes into depth on what the ritual did and said. Then the candidate is assigned a sponsor and sent home to study... He is given a code or "cipher" book that he has to memorize. It is general question and answer stuff - not too hard, but can be memorized by everyone with some effort and the ability to fog a mirror. Then the candidate is brought back before the Lodge and is "examined", having to recite what was in the book. Like I said, it is question and answer, so you are prompted a bit. If the candidate does passably well, the members vote by hand or voice to let him proceed to the next degree. The Second Degree, or Fellowcraft Degree, is beautiful and has a LOT of symbolic meaning. The lecture and ritual is combined in this one, and takes about 45 minutes of the lecturer speaking from memory. Personally, I think it is the greatest of the Lectures, and my personal favorite. Afterwards, there is another cipher book given and another exam.
The Third Degree is the longest, and is the most ritually based. It is a huge play that takes about 25 people to pull off, and discusses the initial building of King Solomon's Temple, and the architect in charge of the building of it. The cipher book for this degree is the biggest - and the exam is, if I may speak plainly, a b!tch. It is also where we got the expression, "Giving him the third degree"... yeah, it's all in Q&A format, but it goes on FOREVER!!! If the guy passes this exam (I have never seen one fail!), he is officially a Master Mason and given his membership card.
He is also usually given a lot of petitions for the other Masonic bodies (Scottish Rite, York Rite, the Grotto, etcetera), and there is usually some talk about getting the guy in line to begin his movement of being an officer of the Lodge - but if he is smart, he'll just sit back and watch for a while before he gets in too deep. I've seen guys go from being non-members to being members and officers in Lodge, York Rite Chapter, York Rite Council, Knights Templar, AND Scottish Rite in the matter of just a month or so. I've then seen the same guys get burned out and drop out completely... and we don't like that.
Howzat for some background?
That would be about a 14 on the 1-to-10 scale of embarassing situations.
Coughymachine (I gotta say, that is a GREAT handle!), how is it possible to discuss the unknown because we don't know it yet? Unless of course it is one of the unknowns that we know we don't know, in which case it is just something that we don't know about.
Howzat for a Rummy answer back atcha?
For things that folks may not know, I guess it is the base idea of equality in the Lodge. We keep going on and on about how people are all equal - and that the ONLY two that aren't equal is the Master of the Lodge (who, after a year, is no longer the Master... and is then an "equal" again), and our chosen deities - who never are our equals. We are instructed to offer respect where it is due (like important people, politicos or such), but that we are to remember that even THOSE people are just people like us... the same way that the beggar and societal dreg is our equal. Everyone deserves respect - just like we do... and we should be the first and loudest to give it.
Meetings - no matter what kind (business meetings (like a regular board meeting with the reading minutes, treasurer's report, etcetera), or ritual meetings (to do the degree work)), start and end with a non-denominational prayer. It's non-denom because we don't know (or care) if a member is Christian (or which franchise), Jewish, Muslim, Hindi, or whatever, and is basically a generic feel good affair. They run through like this (paraphrased), "Father of us all, thank you for letting us all get together, and we offer our prayers to those who couldn't make it. We pray for understanding and peace in the world and in the Lodge. Thank you for giving us this chance. Amen." The parting prayer is very similar...
Regular business meetings, or what we call "Stated Meetings" are horridly boring affairs - unless you like the reading of minutes for the last XX number of meetings, voting to pay the water bill, voting to pay for a corsage for a widowed orphan, and getting the latest "Sunshine Report" of ill members and spouses. With the average age in my Lodge at 77 (no fooling!), that part is LLllllloooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnng... There is also discussion and voting on petitions for new members.
A guy wants to join. He talks to a member, who will get him a petition. When the petition is filled out, the member signs it as the "sponsor", and it is read in a Stated Meeting so an Investigation Committee can do interviews. I have heard that some Lodges do police checks (there is no requirement), some do interviews with references (again, no requirement), and some do interviews with the petitioner and his spouse (if any). If a guy really wants to join and the spouse is against it, it can be hugely detrimental to the candidate - and odds are that he will join and then drop out... and we don't want that. If a guy joins, we want him to be an active, contributing member of the group. Once the investigation is done - no matter how in depth or cursory it may be - the Committee members sign off on the petition and it goes in to the Secretary of the Lodge.
Others may be different, but my Lodge requires the Petition to be read on two different stated meetings to give members a chance to hear the name in case they miss a meeting. After the second reading, then we vote.
The balloting is secret - one of the officers walks the ballot box around - it is a covered thing that has an open drawer of white marbles and black cubes. If a member sees no reason to keep the petitioner out, he grabs a white marble and drops it into a little slot that hides what was dropped (so you don't know if the last guy voted yes or no). If the member has a valid reason to keep the petitioner out, he grabs a black cube (sugar cube size), and drops that in. It used to be a black marble (ball), and started the use of the saying "being black-balled" out of a group. Because of this, we started using the black cube about 40 years ago. Other jurisdictions still use the black balls... (I think England does, but I'm not sure). If all the votes are white, the petitioner becomes a candidate. Just ONE negative vote is enough to keep a petitioner out, so the vote has to be unanimous.
Once the new candidate starts the ritual process, he is officially a "Freemason", but not a "Master Mason." Yeah, to the outsider it sounds pretty petty, but to us it is like the difference between... well, a substititute teacher and a professor. It takes a Master Mason to be an officer in the Lodge, and in many Lodges, First and Second degree Masons can't even come to general business meetings, so they are kind of out in the cold.
One of the things that is in the Entered Apprentice (1st degree) Charge (operation orders), is the stricture to not engage doubters and nay-sayers in useless argument... I do actually take that one to heart - but I have very rarely run into "useless" arguments. Hey, if everyone at the table agrees, then there is no reason to be at the table, is there?
The candidate goes through an elaborate ritual that talks about some great myths about where the Freemasons came from. Afterwards, there is a lecture that goes into depth on what the ritual did and said. Then the candidate is assigned a sponsor and sent home to study... He is given a code or "cipher" book that he has to memorize. It is general question and answer stuff - not too hard, but can be memorized by everyone with some effort and the ability to fog a mirror. Then the candidate is brought back before the Lodge and is "examined", having to recite what was in the book. Like I said, it is question and answer, so you are prompted a bit. If the candidate does passably well, the members vote by hand or voice to let him proceed to the next degree. The Second Degree, or Fellowcraft Degree, is beautiful and has a LOT of symbolic meaning. The lecture and ritual is combined in this one, and takes about 45 minutes of the lecturer speaking from memory. Personally, I think it is the greatest of the Lectures, and my personal favorite. Afterwards, there is another cipher book given and another exam.
The Third Degree is the longest, and is the most ritually based. It is a huge play that takes about 25 people to pull off, and discusses the initial building of King Solomon's Temple, and the architect in charge of the building of it. The cipher book for this degree is the biggest - and the exam is, if I may speak plainly, a b!tch. It is also where we got the expression, "Giving him the third degree"... yeah, it's all in Q&A format, but it goes on FOREVER!!! If the guy passes this exam (I have never seen one fail!), he is officially a Master Mason and given his membership card.
He is also usually given a lot of petitions for the other Masonic bodies (Scottish Rite, York Rite, the Grotto, etcetera), and there is usually some talk about getting the guy in line to begin his movement of being an officer of the Lodge - but if he is smart, he'll just sit back and watch for a while before he gets in too deep. I've seen guys go from being non-members to being members and officers in Lodge, York Rite Chapter, York Rite Council, Knights Templar, AND Scottish Rite in the matter of just a month or so. I've then seen the same guys get burned out and drop out completely... and we don't like that.
Howzat for some background?
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 16 2007, 08:17 PM) [snapback]1678398[/snapback]
Coughymachine (I gotta say, that is a GREAT handle!), how is it possible to discuss the unknown because we don't know it yet? Unless of course it is one of the unknowns that we know we don't know, in which case it is just something that we don't know about.
Howzat for a Rummy answer back atcha?
Howzat for a Rummy answer back atcha?
Thanks for the response.
I guess what I meant was, what are the unknown unknowns from an outsider's perspective. What do we, the non-Masons not know that we don't know, that Masons do know but don't routinely share. I ask this in the spirit of the OP, which seemed to suggest that he or she was going to get down to the nitty-gritty.
I edited my response a bit to add more info. Sorry for the last minute changes!!
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 15 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]1676645[/snapback]
Now those are good questions!!
I meant to say thanks earlier for the succinct answers
i apologise if a few of my questions seemed loaded but I thought it would be best to get them out of the way.QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 15 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]1676645[/snapback]
Were the Stonemasons made Holy men before, after or while they where constructing King Solomon’s Temple ?
They weren't made "Holy men" at all. There was, however, a promise made to all Craftsmen there, that when the Temple was completed, that they would be declared "Masters" and be presented with the proper credentials. This would mean a significant increase in wealth for future works.
They weren't made "Holy men" at all. There was, however, a promise made to all Craftsmen there, that when the Temple was completed, that they would be declared "Masters" and be presented with the proper credentials. This would mean a significant increase in wealth for future works.
I understand what you have kindly explained and what you say is completely consistent on how skilled people were rewarded for these types of projects back then, and it will be the same for this project mostly but I also heard some additional information, that is when King Solomon’s Temple was being built some parts were so sacred that only the priests could go there (it was like the "holiest of holy's") and these parts where it has been suggested that only the priests could go even when they were under construction and a skilled non religious worker could not created a necessity for a religiously indoctrinated "Freemason"!
So I was just wondering if this was the case or if I heard wrong, do you know if King Solomon appointed the Freemasons as holy Men or a Priest’s status so they could build the most sacred parts of the Temple, tbh the underlying question I am trying to get at is what was Solomon wanting to keep so safe from prying eyes, what need would he have for these men take such a sacred oath as previous temples had been built by men who were not "holy men"?
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 16 2007, 03:17 PM) [snapback]1678398[/snapback]
A Masonic symbol on a license plate signifies that they are a Freemason... maybe. However, here in Florida, all they wanted was their $45 to pay for the application, there was no requirement to prove affiliation at all - so I guess it is possible that a non-Mason has the plates - but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes if questioned by a member...
That would be about a 14 on the 1-to-10 scale of embarassing situations.
That would be about a 14 on the 1-to-10 scale of embarassing situations.
Ok. Thank you. I've seen seeing them a lot. Since watching the movie "National Treaure."
QUOTE(Sama @ May 15 2007, 04:48 AM) [snapback]1674847[/snapback]
Excuse - me , ... and you are ...?
Pardon my ignorance Sama but isn't secrecy a rule in freemasonry...maybe thats why Sadonis can not/will not answer that question.
This thread has barely started & already i've had a barrel of laughs
Zimbob, sorry if I wasn't entirely clear on that answer about "Priest/Masons".
When a structure is being built, it is just a building... kinda like your bedroom. Who got into the Sanctum Sanctorum (Holy of Holies)? Only the authorized people - just like who gets into your bedroom. However, it isn't until the room/building is finished - and properly consecrated - that it becomes something truly "special" - and as far as I have been able to research, there wasn't any special "clergy-izing" of the craftsmen that built the Temple.
This being said, it is obvious that the Master Mason that oversaw the job (according to the Masonic legend) was more than just a bit special. There are only THREE Master Masons mentioned in the ritual of the time - Hiram Abiff (the job foreman), Hiram-King of Tyre, and King Solomon himself. When Hiram Abiff was killed by craftsmen that wanted to extort their promised promotions EARLY, the other two were quite upset, as they couldn't legally give out the credentials unless there were three Master Masons present. This leads me to believe that there weren't very many Master Masons in the world at the time.
Please keep in mind that the story about Hiram Abiff is not based in fact - or even verifiable rumor. The book "The Hiram Key" does a good job of making up a semi-believable story, but the authors use as much creative license as Baigent, Lincoln and Leigh did in "Holy Blood-Holy Grail" and Brown does in ALL of his books.
Hey, MoonPrincess, PLEASE do not consider "National Treasure" to be any type of truth at all. If it weren't for the fact that I have seen Nicolas Cage from across a room, I wouldn't believe he even existed... and I still have my doubts. There are so many totally made up things that I even kinda doubt that there is a country called "America"...
When a structure is being built, it is just a building... kinda like your bedroom. Who got into the Sanctum Sanctorum (Holy of Holies)? Only the authorized people - just like who gets into your bedroom. However, it isn't until the room/building is finished - and properly consecrated - that it becomes something truly "special" - and as far as I have been able to research, there wasn't any special "clergy-izing" of the craftsmen that built the Temple.
This being said, it is obvious that the Master Mason that oversaw the job (according to the Masonic legend) was more than just a bit special. There are only THREE Master Masons mentioned in the ritual of the time - Hiram Abiff (the job foreman), Hiram-King of Tyre, and King Solomon himself. When Hiram Abiff was killed by craftsmen that wanted to extort their promised promotions EARLY, the other two were quite upset, as they couldn't legally give out the credentials unless there were three Master Masons present. This leads me to believe that there weren't very many Master Masons in the world at the time.
Please keep in mind that the story about Hiram Abiff is not based in fact - or even verifiable rumor. The book "The Hiram Key" does a good job of making up a semi-believable story, but the authors use as much creative license as Baigent, Lincoln and Leigh did in "Holy Blood-Holy Grail" and Brown does in ALL of his books.
Hey, MoonPrincess, PLEASE do not consider "National Treasure" to be any type of truth at all. If it weren't for the fact that I have seen Nicolas Cage from across a room, I wouldn't believe he even existed... and I still have my doubts. There are so many totally made up things that I even kinda doubt that there is a country called "America"...
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 18 2007, 11:04 AM) [snapback]1680575[/snapback]
PLEASE do not consider "National Treasure" to be any type of truth at all. If it weren't for the fact that I have seen Nicolas Cage from across a room, I wouldn't believe he even existed... and I still have my doubts. There are so many totally made up things that I even kinda doubt that there is a country called "America"...
I totally agree Malruhn. 'Hollow-wood' has a history on propaganda & how to twist the truth & glorify bullsh.it.
freemasons eh! very interesting I got a question do freemasons have anything to do with opus dei or the order of the rosy cross.because I went to an opus dei seminar in vancouver & for some reason they started to chat about freemason's.
Other than the fact that they are both "organizations", Freemasonry and Opus Dei have nothing in common (okay, there are prayers in both groups as well...), but that's it.
The Rose Croix, Order of the Rosy Cross and other names for the organizations are a much different thing. One of the Degrees in the Masonic Knights' Templar is the Order of the Rosy Cross. The Red Cross Castle on Malta was allegedly a Templar holding until the purge... but the Knights of Columbus deny that, and claim it as their own... There is another group called the Croix Rosa or something similar that is unaffiliated with Freemasonry or the Knights of Columbus (like the Scottish order of the Templars), but I know nothing about them.
The Rose Croix, Order of the Rosy Cross and other names for the organizations are a much different thing. One of the Degrees in the Masonic Knights' Templar is the Order of the Rosy Cross. The Red Cross Castle on Malta was allegedly a Templar holding until the purge... but the Knights of Columbus deny that, and claim it as their own... There is another group called the Croix Rosa or something similar that is unaffiliated with Freemasonry or the Knights of Columbus (like the Scottish order of the Templars), but I know nothing about them.
hello there...."Do the Masons know the where-abouts of the Ark of the Covenant?"
I mean the masons right at the top of the hierarchy...and I'm not asking where it is...just...do they know?
I mean the masons right at the top of the hierarchy...and I'm not asking where it is...just...do they know?
I think you may have been watching too many movies.
There is no credible proof that the Ark ever really existed, or that, in the event that it did, still does exist. Being that, there is also no credible proof that anybody knows where it is.
There are a couple books that make a case that says that the Ark is kept in Ethiopia, but the research is akin to what Dan Brown did (copy and paste, and not check the referenced sources), so other than a good story, there is nothing else there.
There is no credible proof that the Ark ever really existed, or that, in the event that it did, still does exist. Being that, there is also no credible proof that anybody knows where it is.
There are a couple books that make a case that says that the Ark is kept in Ethiopia, but the research is akin to what Dan Brown did (copy and paste, and not check the referenced sources), so other than a good story, there is nothing else there.
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 21 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]1686462[/snapback]
I think you may have been watching too many movies.
There is no credible proof that the Ark ever really existed, or that, in the event that it did, still does exist. Being that, there is also no credible proof that anybody knows where it is.
There are a couple books that make a case that says that the Ark is kept in Ethiopia, but the research is akin to what Dan Brown did (copy and paste, and not check the referenced sources), so other than a good story, there is nothing else there.
There is no credible proof that the Ark ever really existed, or that, in the event that it did, still does exist. Being that, there is also no credible proof that anybody knows where it is.
There are a couple books that make a case that says that the Ark is kept in Ethiopia, but the research is akin to what Dan Brown did (copy and paste, and not check the referenced sources), so other than a good story, there is nothing else there.
If you can tell us how the Knights Templar was related to the Freemasons, if at all? I know there are a lot of shows and books that allude to the connection, but I have not found a reasonable answer to how/if they were actually connected.
How does one become a member?
Malruhn, thank you for taking the time to answer the questions the original poster should be. You give very intelligent, articulate answers 
.
.
QUOTE(bee @ May 21 2007, 11:56 AM) [snapback]1686059[/snapback]
hello there...."Do the Masons know the where-abouts of the Ark of the Covenant?"
I mean the masons right at the top of the hierarchy...and I'm not asking where it is...just...do they know?
I mean the masons right at the top of the hierarchy...and I'm not asking where it is...just...do they know?
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 21 2007, 05:44 PM) [snapback]1686462[/snapback]
I think you may have been watching too many movies.
There is no credible proof that the Ark ever really existed, or that, in the event that it did, still does exist. Being that, there is also no credible proof that anybody knows where it is.
There are a couple books that make a case that says that the Ark is kept in Ethiopia, but the research is akin to what Dan Brown did (copy and paste, and not check the referenced sources), so other than a good story, there is nothing else there.
There is no credible proof that the Ark ever really existed, or that, in the event that it did, still does exist. Being that, there is also no credible proof that anybody knows where it is.
There are a couple books that make a case that says that the Ark is kept in Ethiopia, but the research is akin to what Dan Brown did (copy and paste, and not check the referenced sources), so other than a good story, there is nothing else there.
I may have been reading too many books...but movies, no. I didn't appreciate this 'put down'.
I actually believe that the Ark of the Covenant does, PROBABLY, still exist...and that someone, somewhere PROBABLY....knows where it is.
I, also think that the Ethiopia theories are a RED HERRING.
I didn't really think that you would be able to give me a proper answer... because...if the Masons do 'have' it it would be such a massive secret not even the slightest hint could be dropped EVER.
My question was a serious one, though...so thankyou for your answer, even though I found it unsatisfactory.
Red Pegasus, as the bumper sticker says, "To be one, ask one." Find a local Freemason (one of those that have the bumper sticker or wears a Masonic ring or pin, and just ask. Or, you can do what I did and grab the phone book, find the closest Temple and drive over to drop a business card or piece of paper in the mail box. I just wrote, "I have some questions and am interested in possibly joining. Please call. Thanks!" The rest is history.
__________________________________
Glorybebe, there is presently a group that is affiliated with the Freemasons called the Knights Templar. There is also a NON-Masonic group that, if memory serves, is based in either Scotland or England that is called the Knights Templar (there are several others, but I don't know if there is any affiliation between them). Regarding the Masonic version, the only real connection is by name, and that you have to be a Freemason to join (which you DON'T have to be to join the other Templar group). This is my OPINION, but I think it may have been started by someone that had a good imagination that wanted to inject some significant Christian religion into the organization.
There are some VERY fanciful tales of the start of the KT, and then the connection between them and the Freemasons, but the research can't even be called "research", it is guess-work that is backed up by theories and lots of wishful thinking.
The "common thinking" in Lodge about it runs like this: The Blue Lodge (regular Freemasonry) deals with the initial building of King Solomon's Temple and the loss of the ability to make more Master Masons. The only time a Lodge of Master Masons can be opened (officially meet) is when three or more are there, so what has been called "the Secret Name of God" could be passed between the three. The Grandmaster Mason, Hiram Abiff was killed by Craftsmen in an attempt to extort it before the building was completed, and when he died, there weren't three Master Masons left... so they couldn't use that Word any more... so they came up with a substitute for it.
In the York Rite of Freemasonry, the Royal Arch Chapter deals with the rediscovery of the lost Word when the Temple was being rebuilt after the first time it was destroyed. The Royal Arch Consistory deals with how that Word will be perpetuated and preserved (don't know for sure, I'm not a member). The last degrees in the York Rite is specifically Christian in nature and deals with the preservation of the world to re-receive the Messiah when He returns.
From what I have read that is actually FACTUAL about the KT, the only real connection between the organizations is that they share names.
If I didn't give you enough info, or I sidestepped, let me know.
___________________________________
EmpressStar, thanks, but I'm just trying to fight ignorance and those who give Freemasonry a bad name. The problem is that there really is a LOT of bad info out there. Which brings me to...
___________________________________
bee, sorry I didn't give you the answer you wanted, but if you already what info you wanted, why didn't you just tell me what to say? The comment about watching too many movies wasn't intended as a flame - it was a general comment about how too many people watch and read fanciful tales and end up wanting certain things to be true, which seems like it describes you.
As a card-carrying Skeptic, I look at everything with a hyper-critical eye. The Bible, while very important in world development over the past 2000 years, is NOT a work of fact, though there are many sections that have factually based info contained. The further back you go (towards Genesis), the more hazy it gets - and the story of Moses is one of them. IF the story of the Ark was true - and not a parable or allegory as the Book is so famous for using - what are the physical chances that it still exists? To my scientifically based mind, it isn't good. The existence of something that is THAT powerful and important to three of the largest religions in the world would be widely known to everyone that lived outside of under a rock. Look at the Shroud of Turin - even the POSSIBILITY that it once TOUCHED Jesus is enough that every Christian and Jew in the world has heard of it. Consider the same for the Ark.
That is a secret that wouldn't stay secret any more than about thirty seconds.
The allegations that the Ark is in Ethiopia probably is a red herring - as it not only isn't there, it isn't ANYWHERE. However, it is nearly the ONLY allegation for a resting place that we have. I've heard Ethiopia, the Vatican, Roslyn Chapel and a forgotten wing of the Smithsonian. Personally, I think that the Ark has a better chance of being in my garage than any of those places.
Consider the keeping of this secret for a moment. We can't keep ANY secrets nowadays. We know there are priests having sex with kids, we know military maneuvers as they happen, we knew about the Manhattan Project as it happened, we know about World Bank pay raises and even oral sex in the US White House... and, really, on the grand scale of things, how important are these things? For some, very - but for the world, not really. For the Ark, it would be earth shattering, as it would "prove" that religion was "real"... and I honestly can't see that secret staying secret for very long. Can you?
__________________________________
Glorybebe, there is presently a group that is affiliated with the Freemasons called the Knights Templar. There is also a NON-Masonic group that, if memory serves, is based in either Scotland or England that is called the Knights Templar (there are several others, but I don't know if there is any affiliation between them). Regarding the Masonic version, the only real connection is by name, and that you have to be a Freemason to join (which you DON'T have to be to join the other Templar group). This is my OPINION, but I think it may have been started by someone that had a good imagination that wanted to inject some significant Christian religion into the organization.
There are some VERY fanciful tales of the start of the KT, and then the connection between them and the Freemasons, but the research can't even be called "research", it is guess-work that is backed up by theories and lots of wishful thinking.
The "common thinking" in Lodge about it runs like this: The Blue Lodge (regular Freemasonry) deals with the initial building of King Solomon's Temple and the loss of the ability to make more Master Masons. The only time a Lodge of Master Masons can be opened (officially meet) is when three or more are there, so what has been called "the Secret Name of God" could be passed between the three. The Grandmaster Mason, Hiram Abiff was killed by Craftsmen in an attempt to extort it before the building was completed, and when he died, there weren't three Master Masons left... so they couldn't use that Word any more... so they came up with a substitute for it.
In the York Rite of Freemasonry, the Royal Arch Chapter deals with the rediscovery of the lost Word when the Temple was being rebuilt after the first time it was destroyed. The Royal Arch Consistory deals with how that Word will be perpetuated and preserved (don't know for sure, I'm not a member). The last degrees in the York Rite is specifically Christian in nature and deals with the preservation of the world to re-receive the Messiah when He returns.
From what I have read that is actually FACTUAL about the KT, the only real connection between the organizations is that they share names.
If I didn't give you enough info, or I sidestepped, let me know.
___________________________________
EmpressStar, thanks, but I'm just trying to fight ignorance and those who give Freemasonry a bad name. The problem is that there really is a LOT of bad info out there. Which brings me to...
___________________________________
bee, sorry I didn't give you the answer you wanted, but if you already what info you wanted, why didn't you just tell me what to say? The comment about watching too many movies wasn't intended as a flame - it was a general comment about how too many people watch and read fanciful tales and end up wanting certain things to be true, which seems like it describes you.
As a card-carrying Skeptic, I look at everything with a hyper-critical eye. The Bible, while very important in world development over the past 2000 years, is NOT a work of fact, though there are many sections that have factually based info contained. The further back you go (towards Genesis), the more hazy it gets - and the story of Moses is one of them. IF the story of the Ark was true - and not a parable or allegory as the Book is so famous for using - what are the physical chances that it still exists? To my scientifically based mind, it isn't good. The existence of something that is THAT powerful and important to three of the largest religions in the world would be widely known to everyone that lived outside of under a rock. Look at the Shroud of Turin - even the POSSIBILITY that it once TOUCHED Jesus is enough that every Christian and Jew in the world has heard of it. Consider the same for the Ark.
That is a secret that wouldn't stay secret any more than about thirty seconds.
The allegations that the Ark is in Ethiopia probably is a red herring - as it not only isn't there, it isn't ANYWHERE. However, it is nearly the ONLY allegation for a resting place that we have. I've heard Ethiopia, the Vatican, Roslyn Chapel and a forgotten wing of the Smithsonian. Personally, I think that the Ark has a better chance of being in my garage than any of those places.
Consider the keeping of this secret for a moment. We can't keep ANY secrets nowadays. We know there are priests having sex with kids, we know military maneuvers as they happen, we knew about the Manhattan Project as it happened, we know about World Bank pay raises and even oral sex in the US White House... and, really, on the grand scale of things, how important are these things? For some, very - but for the world, not really. For the Ark, it would be earth shattering, as it would "prove" that religion was "real"... and I honestly can't see that secret staying secret for very long. Can you?
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 21 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]1686866[/snapback]
[the Ark.
That is a secret that wouldn't stay secret any more than about thirty seconds.
That is a secret that wouldn't stay secret any more than about thirty seconds.
As one of your oaths is about keeping secrets......
QUOTE
The allegations that the Ark is in Ethiopia probably is a red herring - as it not only isn't there, it isn't ANYWHERE.
How can you possibly know this?QUOTE
Consider the keeping of this secret for a moment. We can't keep ANY secrets nowadays. For the Ark, it would be earth shattering, as it would "prove" that religion was "real"... and I honestly can't see that secret staying secret for very long. Can you?
As you ask..yes I can. It disappeared at a time when communications were by word of mouth or letter, delivered by men on horseback. If it was hidden then hidden it has stayed.
By the way...what happened to Sadonis? He came and went on May 13th. He started a topic inviting questions..but said he wouldn't answer anything about the illuminati..but called the topic..Replying to Freemasons and the Illuminati.
I hate freemasons only kidding lol
bee, even with our oaths, you can still download the entire Masonic ritual for ALL degrees from multiple sites on the internet... and have been able to find them in print hundreds of years before the Internet was thought up. The ONLY successful secret is one that only ONE person knows - and then they die. Even the TWO people that came up with the Bigfoot movie couldn't keep the secret past their deathbeds.
If ONE person knows about the location, there is a good chance that more than that will know about it... if thats the case, then the secret's out.
Regarding my thought that the Ark being in Ethiopia being a red herring fits in directly with the previous thoughts - that it either didn't exist to begin with, or it was lost/destroyed in the several hundred years after it being made/used. If it no longer exists, then it isn't bloody likely to be in Ethiopia, is it?
Now I DO make a distinction between being a "secret" and being "lost". If someone knows where it is, then it is a "secret". If it is in a cave that nobody knows about, it is "lost". I honestly don't believe that there are "secrets" involved for the reasons I already stated. Now, LOST, that's another matter. I might accept that one, but I really highly doubt it... it was too highly sought for people to stop looking for it... if it existed.
If ONE person knows about the location, there is a good chance that more than that will know about it... if thats the case, then the secret's out.
Regarding my thought that the Ark being in Ethiopia being a red herring fits in directly with the previous thoughts - that it either didn't exist to begin with, or it was lost/destroyed in the several hundred years after it being made/used. If it no longer exists, then it isn't bloody likely to be in Ethiopia, is it?
Now I DO make a distinction between being a "secret" and being "lost". If someone knows where it is, then it is a "secret". If it is in a cave that nobody knows about, it is "lost". I honestly don't believe that there are "secrets" involved for the reasons I already stated. Now, LOST, that's another matter. I might accept that one, but I really highly doubt it... it was too highly sought for people to stop looking for it... if it existed.
Psst...I found some VERY interesting things about the Freemasons/Illuminati. If you REALLY want to know what goes on check this out-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRgZ2FOB9M0&NR=1
or this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8eVfL__Cg...ted&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRgZ2FOB9M0&NR=1
or this-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8eVfL__Cg...ted&search=
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 22 2007, 03:36 AM) [snapback]1687412[/snapback]
[bee, even with our oaths, you can still download the entire Masonic ritual for ALL degrees from multiple sites on the internet... and have been able to find them in print hundreds of years before the Internet was thought up. The ONLY successful secret is one that only ONE person knows - and then they die.
If ONE person knows about the location, there is a good chance that more than that will know about it... if thats the case, then the secret's out.
If ONE person knows about the location, there is a good chance that more than that will know about it... if thats the case, then the secret's out.
Before I say anything else I want to make it clear that I'm not 'against' the Masons. Don't know what happened to Sadonis, but I'm grateful that you are stepping in to answer questions...and thanks for answering mine.
Don't want to labour the point about secrets...but...if a group of people wanted to keep a secret...and the where-abouts of the Ark would be a HUGE secret. They would have to have a phenomenally strict/organised method to pass the secret on. Now I don't know if the masons have/know where, the Ark is....but from what I do know about the masonic organisation is that it could take years and years to get to the position of being 'in the know'..not the rituals and all that...but the things that the rituals are leading up to...the weeding out process...when only the most trusted can 'know'.
QUOTE
Regarding my thought that the Ark being in Ethiopia being a red herring fits in directly with the previous thoughts - that it either didn't exist to begin with, or it was lost/destroyed in the several hundred years after it being made/used. If it no longer exists, then it isn't bloody likely to be in Ethiopia, is it?
...my thought about Ethiopia being a red herring..is that the 'people/group' who know where the Ark is, COULD be encouraging a false trail...
QUOTE
Now I DO make a distinction between being a "secret" and being "lost". If someone knows where it is, then it is a "secret". If it is in a cave that nobody knows about, it is "lost". I honestly don't believe that there are "secrets" involved for the reasons I already stated. Now, LOST, that's another matter. I might accept that one, but I really highly doubt it... it was too highly sought for people to stop looking for it... if it existed.
People haven't stopped looking for it. Yes, as argueably the greatest 'lost' treasure of all time..it is/would be very highly sought.
I have a theory that when huge numbers of the Knights Templar were rounded up, tortured and executed ( on Friday 13th October 1307)....this may have been a concerted effort to extract 'the secret' of where the Ark and/or other treasures were.
Factually, yes, the article is true. However, consider the last couple of paragraphs. The bank backed the funding of a guy that promoted democracy over communism and it wasn't until he began persecuting Jews and Catholics that the bank pulled back. I don't have a problem in this. It was an international bank, and the destroyed morale of the German people was ripe for investment - especially when a young leader is seen that may be able to rise to the top. Imagine, for a moment, what would have happened if Hitler had turned out to be a GOOD guy. That bank would have had bazillions of dollars in investment income because they got in on the bottom floor of the reconstruction of the country.
Unfortunately, Hitler turned out to be a bad guy...
It was business speculation that turned out bad... it wasn't "funding a dictator."
And, what the heck does this have to do with the Freemasons?
Unfortunately, Hitler turned out to be a bad guy...
It was business speculation that turned out bad... it wasn't "funding a dictator."
And, what the heck does this have to do with the Freemasons?
I have another question. My great-uncle was a Shriner, and I was later told that you had to be a Mason in order to be a Shriner. Is this true, and if so, how does one becoem Shriners?
This one is easy.
To become a Freemason, just ask a Freemason to join. Once you join, and the three Degrees are completed, most Lodges will start pressing more petitions into the new member's hot little hands. Join the Scottish Rite! Join the York Rite! Join the Grotto! Join this, join that join the joiners...
Personally, I don't like it. I'd like to see new members learn what the Blue Lodge is about before they get pulled out to join other groups... but that's just my opinion.
Once a guy has been Raised as a Master Mason, he can join either the York or Scottish Rite - what they call "appendant" bodies of Freemasonry. As an analogy, it's like being a member of the Boy Scouts and becoming a member of the Order of the Arrow... or a member of the Scout Explorers. You have to wear the uniform to get into the other two groups - and not everybody does it.
The Scottish Rite is done in a weekend, with four degrees being put on like plays on a stage, with several hundred candidates sitting in the audience. The degrees are picked at random from 4-32, with a couple that are done every time. It takes YEARS to see all the different degrees... or so I've been told. On Friday night, the guy is a Master Mason, on late Saturday evening, he is a Scottish Rite mason, a 32nd Degree Master Mason.
The York Rite is a combination of three different groups, the Royal Arch Masons, The Counsel of Cryptic Masons, and the Knights Templar. Each are separate groups, but to be a Knight Templar, you must have entered the Royal Arch first.
Once a guy has either been given his 32nd degree, or has been knighted, he is eligible to enter the Shriners. All you have to do is ask someone for a petition. You pay your membership fee and wait for the next ritual dates. I know very little about the Shriners other than the fact that they have taken on burn victims as their chosen charity, and run some VERY successful and reputable hospitals. I also know that it is expensive to be a Shriner, that the dues are high, and each little sub-group (the Shriner Clowns, the little car drivers, the kazoo band, and several others) also cost money to join... It's a bit too rich for my blood, so I haven't checked into joining any further than that. All I know is that the Shrine isn't a "degree" per se, it is a group or body of folks that is outside of the regular degreed system of Freemasonry.
I also know that it sucks for a guy that lets his regular Blue Lodge membership lapse... because he is removed from the roles of all the other groups. Ouchies!!
To become a Freemason, just ask a Freemason to join. Once you join, and the three Degrees are completed, most Lodges will start pressing more petitions into the new member's hot little hands. Join the Scottish Rite! Join the York Rite! Join the Grotto! Join this, join that join the joiners...
Personally, I don't like it. I'd like to see new members learn what the Blue Lodge is about before they get pulled out to join other groups... but that's just my opinion.
Once a guy has been Raised as a Master Mason, he can join either the York or Scottish Rite - what they call "appendant" bodies of Freemasonry. As an analogy, it's like being a member of the Boy Scouts and becoming a member of the Order of the Arrow... or a member of the Scout Explorers. You have to wear the uniform to get into the other two groups - and not everybody does it.
The Scottish Rite is done in a weekend, with four degrees being put on like plays on a stage, with several hundred candidates sitting in the audience. The degrees are picked at random from 4-32, with a couple that are done every time. It takes YEARS to see all the different degrees... or so I've been told. On Friday night, the guy is a Master Mason, on late Saturday evening, he is a Scottish Rite mason, a 32nd Degree Master Mason.
The York Rite is a combination of three different groups, the Royal Arch Masons, The Counsel of Cryptic Masons, and the Knights Templar. Each are separate groups, but to be a Knight Templar, you must have entered the Royal Arch first.
Once a guy has either been given his 32nd degree, or has been knighted, he is eligible to enter the Shriners. All you have to do is ask someone for a petition. You pay your membership fee and wait for the next ritual dates. I know very little about the Shriners other than the fact that they have taken on burn victims as their chosen charity, and run some VERY successful and reputable hospitals. I also know that it is expensive to be a Shriner, that the dues are high, and each little sub-group (the Shriner Clowns, the little car drivers, the kazoo band, and several others) also cost money to join... It's a bit too rich for my blood, so I haven't checked into joining any further than that. All I know is that the Shrine isn't a "degree" per se, it is a group or body of folks that is outside of the regular degreed system of Freemasonry.
I also know that it sucks for a guy that lets his regular Blue Lodge membership lapse... because he is removed from the roles of all the other groups. Ouchies!!
FREEMASONS, HITLER, same thing!
Somehow, chemicallicker, your humor is lost on me. Are you making an accusation? If so, you had better check your facts, as one of the first organizations that was selected for eradication by Hitler was the Freemasons - and many thousands were rounded up and executed for their affiliation. This is before he got to the Gypsies, homosexuals and Jews...
QUOTE(chemical-licker @ May 23 2007, 02:59 PM) [snapback]1690846[/snapback]
FREEMASONS, HITLER, same thing!
here someone is actually answering our questions and you say things like that.
QUOTE(Malruhn @ May 23 2007, 05:02 PM) [snapback]1690848[/snapback]
Somehow, chemicallicker, your humor is lost on me. Are you making an accusation? If so, you had better check your facts, as one of the first organizations that was selected for eradication by Hitler was the Freemasons - and many thousands were rounded up and executed for their affiliation. This is before he got to the Gypsies, homosexuals and Jews...
That is correcto. Hitler and his megalomaniac anal-retentive minions considered the Freemasons as part of a Jewish-Bolshevik conspiracy(sound familiar?) that was out to destroy Germany and in doing so sent thousands of Masons to their deaths.
The Mormon religion was founded by Freemasons, uses Freemasonic, Illuminati, and ancient rituals and symbols, and is big into blood atonement and terrible vengeance for revealing the secrets. It only needs Satanism to complete the set and it is clear from my research over the last decade that human sacrifice and other grotesque ritual is at the very heart of its operations. This is obviously hidden from the fresh-faced, perfectly-turned-out ‘missionaries’ who travel the world selling the corporation. They provide the essential cover for what really goes on in the inner sanctum ...
... ‘Jane’ says she was taken to the most secret Mormon rites at the Salt Lake Temple at the age of 20. Instead of entering the through the front door, she was taken through a tunnel under the street to a place called the 'Pink Room'. There she saw several of the Mormon leaders dressed in black worshipping Lucifer in a ritual called True Order of Prayer.'
this is freemasonry where do i sign up?
... ‘Jane’ says she was taken to the most secret Mormon rites at the Salt Lake Temple at the age of 20. Instead of entering the through the front door, she was taken through a tunnel under the street to a place called the 'Pink Room'. There she saw several of the Mormon leaders dressed in black worshipping Lucifer in a ritual called True Order of Prayer.'
this is freemasonry where do i sign up?
QUOTE(chemical-licker @ May 25 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]1693726[/snapback]
The Mormon religion was founded by Freemasons, from my research over the last decade human sacrifice and other rituals are at the very heart of its operations, Jane says she was taken to the Salt Lake Temple at the age of 20, she was taken through a tunnel under the street to a place called the 'Pink Room'. There she saw several of the Mormon leaders dressed in black worshipping Lucifer in a ritual called True Order of Prayer.
Dude who is the "Jane" you refer to?
Is it possible that a group of people who are not Masons might use Masonic/Mormon symbolism as a facade to deflect any suspicion, could a group of devil worshipers really get away with pretending to be Masons so outsiders don’t suspect what they are upto? I think they could fool "some" people into thinking they are masons when they are not!
It's only my opinion but it strikes me as a big coincidence that multiple organisations and religious orders have been accused of Devil Worship when in reality nothing could be further from the truth, the pagans and wickers have also been accused of Devil worship when their true followers advise nothing could be further from the truth as they believe in the Health and prosperity of the people and land, I have even heard stories about a secret Church Sect being involved with Satanism.
Is it not a trait of Evil to undermine peoples beliefs and values in what they hold dear and sacred, are we not all warned that Evil can manifest itself in most ambiguous situations?
I think Evil and bad people will always rubbish the reputation of an honest organisation or a good person in the pursuit of self gratification and self advancement, a Con Man would be a good description for the type of person I am trying to describe.
Would you mind sharing some or any of the results/information you obtained in your investigation?
I love Masons!
Peace,
RadicalGnostic
Peace,
RadicalGnostic
QUOTE(zimbob @ May 26 2007, 07:34 PM) [snapback]1695058[/snapback]
Dude who is the "Jane" you refer to?
Is it possible that a group of people who are not Masons might use Masonic/Mormon symbolism as a facade to deflect any suspicion, could a group of devil worshipers really get away with pretending to be Masons so outsiders don’t suspect what they are upto? I think they could fool "some" people into thinking they are masons when they are not!
It's only my opinion but it strikes me as a big coincidence that multiple organisations and religious orders have been accused of Devil Worship when in reality nothing could be further from the truth, the pagans and wickers have also been accused of Devil worship when their true followers advise nothing could be further from the truth as they believe in the Health and prosperity of the people and land, I have even heard stories about a secret Church Sect being involved with Satanism.
Is it not a trait of Evil to undermine peoples beliefs and values in what they hold dear and sacred, are we not all warned that Evil can manifest itself in most ambiguous situations?
I think Evil and bad people will always rubbish the reputation of an honest organisation or a good person in the pursuit of self gratification and self advancement, a Con Man would be a good description for the type of person I am trying to describe.
Would you mind sharing some or any of the results/information you obtained in your investigation?
Is it possible that a group of people who are not Masons might use Masonic/Mormon symbolism as a facade to deflect any suspicion, could a group of devil worshipers really get away with pretending to be Masons so outsiders don’t suspect what they are upto? I think they could fool "some" people into thinking they are masons when they are not!
It's only my opinion but it strikes me as a big coincidence that multiple organisations and religious orders have been accused of Devil Worship when in reality nothing could be further from the truth, the pagans and wickers have also been accused of Devil worship when their true followers advise nothing could be further from the truth as they believe in the Health and prosperity of the people and land, I have even heard stories about a secret Church Sect being involved with Satanism.
Is it not a trait of Evil to undermine peoples beliefs and values in what they hold dear and sacred, are we not all warned that Evil can manifest itself in most ambiguous situations?
I think Evil and bad people will always rubbish the reputation of an honest organisation or a good person in the pursuit of self gratification and self advancement, a Con Man would be a good description for the type of person I am trying to describe.
Would you mind sharing some or any of the results/information you obtained in your investigation?
Good ARGUMENT! Totally agree with what you say. My family descend directly from a Knights templar, and the amount of rubbish that surrounds us is incredible. Modern "Templars" have no tradition based in the honest virtues of my ancestor. Many People believe that Freemasons derive from Templars. I can tell you that it is only wishful thinking. Templars will not denounce the Roman Catholic faith, as the Freemasons do, only its leader (the Pope) who bowed to pressure from King Philip 4 of France.
Modern day Templars are all just wanabees... riding on the coat-tails of truly pious people. The Templars were accused of Idolatry, and many, many were burned at the stake after inquisition.. Many more escaped the purge, and Real Templars are still here amongst us, quiet, unassuming, just trying to live a life dedicated to belief
Here is my question.
Why put the name ILLUMINATI in the title of your thread, only to say you will not discuss them? Wouldn't it have been easier just to leave that bit out?
Why put the name ILLUMINATI in the title of your thread, only to say you will not discuss them? Wouldn't it have been easier just to leave that bit out?
QUOTE(supervike @ May 26 2007, 08:12 PM) [snapback]1695153[/snapback]
Here is my question.
Why put the name ILLUMINATI in the title of your thread, only to say you will not discuss them? Wouldn't it have been easier just to leave that bit out?
Why put the name ILLUMINATI in the title of your thread, only to say you will not discuss them? Wouldn't it have been easier just to leave that bit out?
I know
Sadonis came and went on May 13th....then someone else (Malruhn) answered some questions....now it's it's just general posts. Unless sadonis re-appears or Malrhun.......
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