Over the past year I remember 4 criminal cases profiled on my local news up here in Oregon. These stand out in my mind as crimes which were random and unprovoked:

1. A man looked at another man in the library. The first man went to work on the computer. After a short while, the second man got up, went over to the man and stabbed him in the back.


2. A man was having a nice lunch with his wife on a lovely day in Portland when a man came into the restaurant and stabbed the man in the back


3. This morning I heard that yesterday a woman went grocery shopping with her family. She turned and began to walk down an aisle alone with her shopping cart when she saw a 55-60-year-old man approach her and hit her in the head with a hammer. She is currently in the hospital.


And there are a few other cases of random violence that I can't remember right now.

What is going on in our society? Are all these cases caused by drug addiction? Is our society so rampant with untreated mental illness? Someone on another forum speculated that it could be ELF(extremely low frequency waves)? Some believe that there is a sensitivity to ELF waves that causes this violence. What do you think?

And they tell us not to be paranoid.

Yeah, those are really cool.

God only knows, Isis. I don't like innocent people getting hurt. Nor do I like criminals in anyway.

It's usually how they were raised or they're obsessed with someone/thing. I could be wrong.

I hope the woman lives & is going to be ok.

There could be any number of causes.

On a purely down-to-Earth point of view, the criminal could be mentally-ill - maybe a paranoid schizoprenic, the voice in his/her head tells him/her to do such a heinous act.

On a more esoteric wavelength, it could be to do with karma: a story I read in a book about such a subject once, stated a person (whom we will call Henry), who when hypnotised, was taken back to a past life. During this past life, they were riding a horse-drawn carriage, a beggar ran out in front of the carriage and was killed because Henry, although he had seen the beggar there, just looked at him and continued, running him over.

Back to the present time, Henry was crossing the road, a car came towards him and he said just a split second before he was knocked to the ground, the driver just continued, staring straight at him, making no effort to brake.

Whatever the true reason why people commit such acts, one thing is damn certain. The only person who really knows why, is the perpetrator and I bet even then, in some cases, they haven't got a clue

This is a point I was trying to make in the spiritual section. My evidence of moral decay is that people are comfortable with lying now-a-days. Random acts of violence indicate a very sick mindset in America.

These random acts of violence are becoming so frequent. I am not excusing it or understand it but you can see why an extreme racist would stab someone of another race, or terrorists who believe they are performing acts of violence for a purpose, as much as we can comprehend their purpose. But the truely random acts, here in 2005 and woman, Abiligail Witchall was stabbed in the neck in a park when she had her son with her in a totally random act of violence. While there was suggestions that he had taken meth, I have seen a comment from a family member to say his post mortem came back without any traces of meth in his system so this was one of those unexplainible incidents and they are becoming frequent. It is enough to turn you into a hermit. I don't think there'll ever be a universal answer to it.

I know what you're saying, Fobrien. It was once said "When it's your time to go, it's your time to go", but I always wanted to die of old age in my sleep......not to be murdered by a senseless act of violence.

I think the simplest explanation and possibly the most applicable would be people just giving in to violent urges in their sub conscience.

Exactly. I have those urges all the time, and most of them are totally unjustified, as in I'd have no reason whatsoever to kill someone. Sometimes I'm just thinking I COULD do it, and then feel like going over there and doing it. I think the reason is because we're so used to supress our violent urges, that we do that naturally, but when they're unfounded, we propably don't even recognize them as such, and our subconscious is slow to block them.

I chalk this kind of thing up to people just snapping.
Modern life is like living inside a pressure cooker and some people simply are not equipped to living that way, or do not know how to decompress, thus they snap.
And stab people, hammer them, what ever.
Sad but nothing to do to fix it other than topple all of modern society and start anew.

Too many knives in Oregon??

I don't know if I totally agree that everyone has these kinds of violent subonscious feelings. I think this generation and ones to come do more so than say my mother's generation and gran's generation. I don't know what it is about us. My gran worked as a nurse in the UK during WWII and my mother was in Uganda during the civil war, so maybe this extreme danger and aggression right in front of their faces all the time caused them to not be so aggressive, very hard to know. Obviously there is the old chestnut the media to blame for it suggesting that we've all become desensitized to violence, but then why wouldn't my mother or gran have been the same way. When did people start becoming openly violent on a constant basis. I am not suggesting there weren't senseless acts of violences through every generation but when did it start becoming so common and accepted as a part of life.

I was walking home from a mates house yesterday evening, on my way into their house I witnessed an older woman chasing this younger lad down the street because he was about to throw something through the window. Then on my way out there were 6/7 police cars lights flashing, police dogs everything and the older woman was all shook up and looked as if she's been hit in the face. This woman was in her 50s I would imagine, even my generation if I was knacker enough to attempt to throw something into someone's window and a woman chased me I would accept my punishment never would I hit her, pretty unfair fight and I'm female. So when has it become ok for a 17 year old lad to hit a 50 year old woman?

How does this fit into the new taboo of hiting children? Maybe if someone had spanked or hit them when they were young they whould realize how much pain they are causing. Then again maybe they were beaten and this is the way they have learned to vent frustration? My parent hit me and I have never physicaly assalted anyone, although I do tend to yell or go incomunicato when I feel threatened. I see that parents who refuse to ever physicaly punish a child have more violent children. Whatever the case this behaviour must have been encoded in early childhood, and probably reflects the way they were treated by their parents then.

triplehelix2000 smacking children is such a taboo area these days, which is unbelievable. I don't agree with beating children at all and you're afraid when you enter into these discussions with people they assume you condone it but that is where people view it differently. Of course someone who has been beaten as a child will completely disagree with, and likewise with people who were never smacked but there is that middle ground of people who got the wooden spoon or hand or slipper whatever it was when they were out of line. We got the wooden spoon, and later in life it became a symbol for "You've gone to far run away and cool off" without it ever being used. I was usually hit when me and sister would fight, they were pretty outrageous fights, and if anything it joined us against the common enemy (my spoon yeilding mother). You would assume people who got hit as a child would find violence more acceptable form of dealing with arguments, but it hasn't worked this way for me. It is almost as if violence (athough I wouldn't refer to the wooden spoon as violence per se) had moved from behind closed doors to the street. I am not sure about the more violent child resulting from no smacking but I certainly think they are more out of control, and it's this control they lack when they feel rage or whatever it is they feel. I wonder though would you see this same lack of control in all aspects of their life.

No, I told you I was beaten as were my sibling. None of us has ever used violence. These people are acting violently. The patterns for their behavoir, as any psychologist will tell you was layed down in childhood. There is really only one area here where we can begin to disect the pathology of people who commit random acts of violence. That is the voilence/non-voilent relationship these people had with their parents. I am not making a generalization here. I have only given my experience and my rudamentary knowledge of psychology. There is an interesting trend here too you must see, people spank/beat/slap their children less and random acts of violence rise. Actually all voilent crime is rising, I wish you wouldnt dismiss an attempt to find the source of violent crime.

I didn't realise I was dismissing anything. I don't agree with children being beaten, sorry if you've found this was effective in preventing you from becoming a violent person but you are one of the exceptions. This is the nature/nurture debate and either you learn behaviours violent or not, or they are inherent. Please clarify what you're saying triplehelix2000, children should be beaten in order to prevent them from becoming violent adults?

No, I am making no policy nor am I advocating anything. I am observing a trend. I know lots of kids who were beaten. I really have never understood why people trump it up so much. What I have noticed is that parent who are willing to physicaly punish children have more respectful children. Am I wrong? Were you beaten? How often do you act out/violently? Bear in mind we are not deciding anything here, nor are we even debating. Even if I did advocate beating/not beating, that would just be pure self-righteousness. I have an idea, im not running for office or having an arguement.

No I wasn't beaten, I know people that were beaten and it was severe. I wasn't touched if I wasn't really out of line, even then always on the legs or body with the wooden spoon. To claim I was beaten is a gross overexageration. By today's standard even slapping a child's hand is being beaten but no I wasn't. And yes they might have more respectful children but that aggression goes somewhere. We're pretty divided on this one I feel. To be acted upon violently for your entire childhood is not going to have a good effect on your levels of internalised aggression. People who abuse their children (I'm not referring to sexual abuse here) will usually be found to have been treated similarly by their parents.

A child who is beaten will be more respectful and quiet and propably keep to themselves because they're not really in the mood to say the wrong thing and get beaten again. A quiet life is a good one. So fair enough that might be the case but I don't think that's a solution to a violence problem.

The source of violent crime cannot be pinpointed on one thing. For everyone it's different. Ted Bundy, Jeffery Dahmer just liked it, then battered women kill their husbands out of fear, or anger, drug addicts rob or kill people for money for a fix. Violent crime has always been around, it's in the bible (I'm sure I'm not religious I couldn't be quoted on it but pretty sure it is, depends what you consider a crime). It's part of everyone. Everyone has the potential to be violent just as we've the potential to be anything we just don't want to. I am getting sidetracked, but I think it's an interesting point you've made that since the level of physically punishing kids has gone down violent crime's gone up. However to have a direct correlation between the two would be hard to pinpoint without a longitudinal study comparing physically punished kids vs other means of punishment and compare their aggression and violence levels when they are older. The other side to that coin is where in society would they accept a child is being hit and not step in?

You admit violence keeps people in line, but seem to discourage violence. Is there really another way to keep people in line and respectful? Maybe a person is more willing to stab someone in the neck, because they know the worst that will happen is that they will go to prison for a few years. Im being facetious when I say I would kill for steady housing three meals a day and access to a weight room. If we went back to disembowling people in public maybe someone would think twice before commiting a randowm act of voilence. What punishment is it for such a demented person to send them to a place they can do more violence on a cell mate of whatever? What im trying to say is that a lack or responsible authority in the justice system and at home will not properly discourage a person from doing these things. Its a very thin line I know, but as a society we are tending to be more lenient, and I think I see a trend.

Firstly let me clarify I think a certain level of discipline keeps children in line when they are bold, not that violence keeps everyone in line, it keeps everyone complacent out of fear and that I don't agree with at all. When you read about civil wars, dictatorships and human rights it is proven to be extremely distrubing, Darfur for example.

In regards to your suggestion of "disembowling people in public" to prevent people from stepping out of line, you say you're not a violent person, and in this new society that would result in these new practices no one would be violent, so who would we get to do the public sacrificing? Would you step up to the plate for the good of society and start butchering people? And who would we make examples out of? Is the death sentence not a more "humane" route to achieveing the same thing and yet it doesn't seem to be having any affect. I don't think an eye for an eye works and that isn't a novel statement.

you keep asking who, who, who.

Q. Who will not step in and stop a parent from hitting a child?
A. Me and 9 billion other people wont. I think its only a few people who feel self-righteous enough to go around and try to raise others children.

Q. Who will do a public disembowlment?
A. The same guy who goes around stabing people for no reason.

Q. would you butcher people for the good of society?
A. I would kill and/or die for my country, so the answer is yes.

"I don't think an eye for an eye works"

well what have we now? Do whatever you want and nothing happens to you? Is that "an eye for nothing". It is a fact that violent crime is rising, what we are doing now is proven to be uneffective, and "an eye for an eye" proved itself to be more effictive, didnt it? God is the one who suggested it, does he not have moral authority?

I would never attempt to raise other people and don't consider myself self righteous enough to attempt it but that isn't the same as saying I couldn't be a researcher and stand there while someone beats their kids. That isn't raising a child and no offence but I don't think it's had a very good effect on you if you suggest public disembowling and violence to keep people in line. You try and tell me you don't have internalized aggression? Sorry you're not doing a very good job of proving that point.

I think if you went off and set up a society where you lived by the rules you've outlined here you'd have a load of people wanting to go live there because they'd all want to go around slashing each other to bits. Your argument holds no weight. You're blaming the high level of violence on the reducing level of violence. How does that make sense. In order to stop people acting violenty we'll chop someone up in front of their faces, for one I don't really fancy being part of that. I would much rather learn self control and understand the consequences of my actions than be surrounded by blood thirsty lunatics all day.

Q. Who will do a public disembowlment?
A. The same guy who goes around stabing people for no reason.

I thought the aim of your society was to rid it of people like this. So where are you going to find them? And is this not just the society we've got already except when someone stabs someone for no reason we give them a nice big stage to do it on, a huge audience and a hand shake for it. I don't think you've thought through any of this.

"well what have we now? Do whatever you want and nothing happens to you?" Apparently this is what you're suggesting.

You'd die for society?
If we live by your rules you wont have much choice I think.

No God does not have moral authority,

By the way how did you move from someone smacking their child to public disembowling to prevent violence?

Yes I know we have gone very far off topic. The trend remains regarldess how much rhetoric we rehash. Parents for a long time have been afraid to punish their children, and violent crime has steadily increased. If you can really disprove this corelation I would like to hear it, but we are going no where.

MAybe you should clear up the definition of violence. A spanking cannot be described as beating your child, thats using the wrong word at the wrong time. Beating your children in my mind means closed fist punch or the belt. Spanking a child on the bum, an area ideally suited for this action, is not the same. A smack on the bum only hurts the pride of the child, it does no damage that a closed hand would do. It gives the child a baseline to compare its actions and possible outcomes, its a learning tool that teaches them boundries, which needs to be taught more than ever. My dad spank me on the bum when i was a kid, it wasn't extreme. It did teach me that if I repaeted my actions the result was a sore bum. Its simple and direct and in my opinion more effective than time out or talking ever will be. When I was a teenager and used inappropriate language i would get a light slap on the cheek for missusing the ability to speak. I deserved it, it helped curb future episodes.
I find that it is true that today children are less and less being brought up this way. I also believe its making a more violent culture, without the fear of consequence young people r taking for granted that they can be halted in their variuos pursuits. When the only deterent is the fact that when you act up as a teenager the only punishment is a firm talking too and the removal of cell phone priviledges, it tends to under mine any attempt to establish discipline. Now all the bleeding hearts will tell you that it is possible to instill discipline without corporal punishment, what they forget to mention is that its less successful than my method. Deep down we are animals on some level, the things that govern us are sometimes vestiges of our previous existence in survival mode where lessons are harsh and final. Sometimes to reach that core you gotta go old school. Also it should be mentioned that kids have been around forever, does anyone really think this time out stuff wasn't already tried and discarded already?

too bad we don't hear about random acts of kindness.

thanx contactismade. I think that was something I was trying to get too( Boundaries). People who commit random acts of violence seem to have no boundaries. I think the concept of a boundary is something that is learned in childhood.

yes moral decay especially from the hypocrites that preach how bad the 'moral 'decay is.

Ted Haggard - drugs , gay

Pat Robertson - advocating murder - his list goes on.

Jerry Falwell - his hate list is long

Jim Baker - lol

Joel Osteen - marketeer and believes better than the average person( well his wife does )


how many found guilty of child sexual abuse ?

the list goes on.

so much for the moral teachers.

the problem is that they arent fabricating the message they espouse. go look right now at the rate of violent crime and the rising rates of random acts of violence. The people you mention may be hypocrites, but that doesnt dismiss the facts.

google "view:timeline violent crime" there are the facts. dismiss me, dismiss god, dismiss people who are concerned, but the problem remains, and I only wish to find its source.

"view:timeline random acts of violence " google this for rates of random acts of violence. These data tend to dip after 2000, but from other source I see that it goes right back up to where it left off in 2000 now.

I don't really have much to say about this any more. I'm spent. I do think that the less children are being smacked, not beaten, they are out of control, have no respect and to be honest the way children are today has seriously influenced my decision to not have children. My point however is that it is not the only factor that has increased crime in society. This cannot be applied to the older generation who commit random acts of violence. The increase in availablility to highly addictive drugs, constant glamourization of violence in media, kids being increasinly spoilt these are but a few factors that have increased violence. Not everyone is affected by these hence we're not all more violent but some people are. ecI aggree that smacking a child when out of line is a lot more effective than a time out or talking to, although some of the lectures i've gotten I would have preferred to be smacked to get me away from the boredom. My mother smacked and my father lectured, I still would listen to my mother first, I think it taught me my place on the pecking order. Little kids who run the show do not and this is becoming a huge problem but I don't think it's the sole cause of increased rise in violent crime.

Random acts of violence happens all the time.

Ive seen people been hit with bricks, bottles and get jumped for absolutely no reason. Its just boredom really. Those arent as bad as people getting killed for no reason but still pretty bad.

Infact my dads old work mate got murdered by two people outside a shop for no reason, he was stabbed to death, the two guys got 4 years each for murder but because of the laws up here they only served 2.

Well, I personally believe that if a child is spanked, or even unfortunately physically disciplined in other ways, it won't necessarily lead to a life of crime. What about David Pelzer who endured horrible torcher from his mother for a good part of his childhood. He is now married and helps other children who are survivers of abuse.

He could've turned out to be a serial killer, rapist, or led a life of crime. Maybe some survivors of abuse have a sensitivity to it and possibly a predisposition to going from abuse to a life of crime.

I am glad you agree. I dont think you have many poeple to persuade.

I understand what you mean. I remember walking to school one time and saw on the sidewalk near the school was a police outline of a body of a young student who was killed. I found out later that it was a group of kids that jumped a mentally challenged student. I just can't understand it.

Although the following case is not a random incident, it shows how petty people can be. At the end of my block there was a young guy who used to live there with his mom. My brothers and I were acquainted with him. He was a pretty nice guy with an adorable fluffy dog named Spatz. One day this guy was sitting on his porch when a car pulled around the corner. Two men got out of the car, approached him, and beat him until his eye came out of the socket. I heard they only got away with 50 cents. I felt so sorry for that guy.

Thats what I always do on GTA games. Just mug people on the streets for no reason.

How do you think this makes people who play GTA games feel? Do you think they would carry these feelings to the street and randomly kill in real life? or do you think whatever rage they feel can be extinguished by playing these types of games and they wouldn't need to go out and do this in real life?

I knew a guy who I later found out was a misogynist. He bought this game that allows you as a male to fight women in a punching ring. He would punch these women in the game, knock them down, beat them, and then he'd say later "Well, I beat up my b**** for the day.

Needless to say, I'm no longer friends with this guy. But my point is what percentage of people who play these violent bloody video games do this instead of killing in real life? and how many who play these games actually go on to do this in real life?

"welcome to scotland" as i like to say
we must be the most violent country on earth
step out of the city centre in glasgow and you can just smell the hate and death in the air
walk the streets and you can feel the violence

our politicians and media hide behind the "glasgows miles better","the best small country in the world" and other slogans and gimmicks but the real people know he murderers and psychos we breed