I believe in God, and that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins... However, I do not believe in the church. What would you call this?

What do you mean by "the church"? Are you talking about an organization of churches or just a single church?

I believe it's called "sitting on the fence"


fullywired

Truth. The church today is a horribly corrupted entity which doesn't lead people to faith. Instead is has forsaken the true Christian values and repels people from the faith.

God would rather have you pray in a closet alone. and really believe in him..then attend a church for social reasons...

JayRob303 - According to "fullywired" you are "sitting on the fence".

Sooooo, that's a nice comfy looking fence. May I have a seat next to you?

*dangles feet over the side of the fence*

How y'all doin'? I think this fence is going to get crowded.......

I'm an Atheist that lives in a church.

It's a building. Perhaps a metaphor for a united front in faith, going forth to establish a firm foundation of that faith, in the world, so as to bring more people through the doors that lead to one kind of god. Does that church being there cause one that holds faith in a higher power, to finally recognize it through the communication of a building or a dogma, or a sect!? Or rather, is what makes someone know themselves to be all they think religion tells them is good, in loving god, something one recognizes in themselves, first. Before they ever hear a sermon, or read a book!?

Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within. Maybe the title I'd give this is that you, are the temple.

JayRob303

The more the merrier...lol

I just didn't know if there was a name for folks like us...who believe in the spirituality aspect of Christianity. To me, things just get twisted by 'man'...

I was raised baptist, so in 'their' point of view I'm not doing right by not going to church on Sundays...

I couldn't have said my feelings better than Child-Of-Israel.

There is a lot of that going around.

Aren't you a man that is twisting things?????

You have to figure that every person out there has a different interpretation of the Bible... Heck, even the bible is an interpretation (ie.King James Version)...

I just think that more people now have the capacity to ask questions than to follow blindly...

It sounds like you're a Christian. You just don't go to church.

Absolutely... It's my particular 'twist' or opinion on religion.

But isn't that supposed to be a contradiction?

imo the people are the church, not the building... even tho the building is also called a church

It depends on what you believe I suppose. Is it necessary to go to church to be a Christian? I don't remember anything in the Bible that says you have to go to church. I don't have the whole Bible memorized, so that doesn't mean it doesn't say that. I don't know how you could take communion and be baptised without going to church, so maybe you do have to go to church to fulfill the requirements of the religion.

It absolutely positively is not required that you go to church to be a Christian.


First of all, Baptism is not a requirement. It is something that's nice to do. And communion, though it's asked, doesn't have to be done in a church. You could do it anywhere. You go home, get some grape juice, get some bread and than pray "Lord I remember your sacrifice to me, and I love you for it. Thank You for dying for me, and making it so that I could be with you who I love so dearly." and drink, and eat and BAM! Communion.

There actually is a denomination for this... and there's also a non-denomination. Non-denominational churches are wide and varied in their beliefs and practices. You just have to test them out to see if one suits your needs.

I never actually did find on that suited my needs. So I ended up a Quaker. It deals with nearly a purely spiritual aspect of Christianity. Yes, the vast majority believe in Christ as Savior, that the Kingdom of Heaven is within, the rest of it is up for grabs.

The quick version? Quakers don't have churches (but we do sometimes have plain little meeting houses), they don't display any religious icons or images, don't practice sacrements, not even baptism (but you can go get baptised if you feel like it), they don't have any ministers, everyone in the congregation is a minister, they don't care if the Bible is inerrant or not, there are no sermons, just shared fellowship, spontaneous ministry on occasion, but by in large the worship is silent. A Quakers religious life is generally directed toward complete non-violence, complete equality for all people, and simplicity of living. They've eliminated all dogma, all creeds, take no oaths and make no statements of faith.

It's not an easy Christian sect to follow, but if it speaks to you, it's the most natural thing in the world to practice. It's not right for everyone though. Most people prefer a little more "direction" than what the Friends can offer. haha

I would call it, "Letting Satan win" Check this out:
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=95111

actuallt Baptism is a requirement according to scripture...john3:5 Jesus speaking to Nicodemus
3: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT a man be born again, He cannont see the kingdom of God.

4: Nicodemus saidth unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5: Jesus answered, verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2:38..Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost..


it is a requirment according to the Bible to be baptized...which is the putting away of the old and arising of the new man...or washing away of sin..but if one has not truly Repented...(turned away from ) then being baptized would be of no use...or done in vain...

The church is the body of christ...just like we have many different members that make up our body.....the ppl make up the church....not the building ...alot of churchs are just that a building...
as for attending church...only one that can answer that is yourself...if your truly seeking God and pray allow him to lead you...

its amazing what the word of God will do if in a real church there was this lady who came and she had bellspalsy (spelling?) her face was all dropped on one side she could not handle to have it touched or anything she was dwelling so to speak it was horriable but the word came across and immeditaly you could watch as her face went back into place...had it not been for her beening at church at that time...she might not of had it back to normal so quickly ...

hearing a good preacher can lead you, change you, educate you...but I do understand not attending...been there done that...theres so much corputness in churches...its terriable...its turned into a money market and at the same time derailing ppl about God ..

There is probably an ism around somewhere. I'll look around.

and:

Of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper: There is only one Baptism (Eph. 4:5). This is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit not the baptism in water (Acts 1:4,5). The Lord’s Supper is also Spiritual (not with the elements of bread and wine) (Jn. 6:32-58 and Rev.3: 20).

There's about a 50/50 argument within Christianity about whether Baptism is a requirement. Many many denominations do not see it as a requirement for salvation. Mine just happens to be one of the only ones that doesn't practice it at all (every day and every meal is a sacrement on its own).

The words "baptism" and "communion" to describe the experience of Christ's presence and his ministry in worship. John the Baptist was pointing to this when he said: "I have baptized with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit." Worship reaches its goal when those who worship feel the baptism of the Spirit. Communion occurs when the worshiper communes with God and with those who are gathered in the Lord's name.

The presence of Christ with his church does not occur by symbol or representation, but in the real communication of his Spirit: "I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter, who shall abide with you forever." John 14:18. Christ needs no rite or priestly intervention to make that real communion or baptism possible. ~~ First Friends Whittier.

I could go on with scripture to support my belief, but endless scripture in threads is well... boring and won't change anyone's mind. What is kind of funny is that I frequently attend a Mennonite church, they're Anabaptists (like the Amish) and believe in Twice Baptism. They don't even seem to have a problem with my beliefs. (although there is no question that they'd love to play a rousing round of Dunk the Quaker some Sunday's)

When I think of Quakers, I think of the ole' horse and buggy folks like the Amish. Around here, there are Amish, Mennonite's, Shaker's (?), and Quakers... I know it's small minded, but when I think of any of them, I picture a way of life along with their spiritual belief's.

Is there any room left on the fence? If so slide over.

LOL, well, I can assure you that I don't have a horse or buggy It's a common misconception actually for a lot of reasons. The Amish are what they are, they're communal living and insular. The Mennonites vary greatly. Some types of Mennonites live like the Amish... but the vast majority of Mennonites you'd never recognize if you met them on the street and you probably have. Quakers on the other hand have never lived communally and you'd never know you'd met one unless they told you. Shakers are all but extinct, I think there are something like 6 or 7 Shakers total left in the world. Shakers were a branch of Quakers 200 years ago, they did live communally. They were a strong sect numbers wise until the US forbid churches to adopt orphans. That's how Shakers gained converts... all Shakers are celebate.

Quakers get lumped in with the Amish, Mennonites, and Bretheren (who are all Anabaptists, Quakers are not) because all of these churches are members of the Historic Peace Churches which actively work to end all violence and war and advocate non-violence very seriously.

There are typically lifestyle choices that do come with Quakerism, one being simplicity. Most Quakers (but not all) do their very best to live very simple lives, never owning more than they need, so that practice of "simplicity" also tends to get them lumped in with the Mennonites and Amish. Friends couldn't be more different than the Amish and Conservative Mennonites, but they are our close friends and allies. And if you look at that dude on the oatmeal box... he looks like the Quakers from some 300 years ago. They took simplicity to a fetish, they didn't even wear clothes that had buttons or pockets. haha.

What's the difference between you and "man"?????

Another form of Christianity

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

It would depend what you mean by "Church", JayRob. In the strictest sense of the word, church translates literally as "the body of believers". The Church is supposed to be the people who believe in Christ. But I guess you are not saying that you do not believe in the body of believers. Methinks you speak of the "church" as in any particular organised religion, or perhaps a building. In this sense, you are absolutely correct in that these churches do not lead to Christ. They can be helpful in reaching Christ though. I attend a church building and a church organisation. I go there to meet up with the real church (ie, body of believers). i find it spiritually uplifting to share my thoughts and encouragements with people of similar beliefs. This church is not the only place where I could meet up with the church (body of believers), but it is what I have chosen as the best way for me to meet up with other Christians.

Just a question though, JayRob - how do you (if you do, that is) meet up with other Christians? Do you have a time set aside to meet up with people who hold similar beliefs, or are you going it solo, so to speak. What are your thoughts on the Bible, and how do these thoughts impact your life as a Christian? Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions

Regards, PA

Unfortunately I haven't found the right group of folks to share my thoughts with. I've gone to several church's and it seems that nobody there is open minded enough to thing for themselves. I would love to find a group that actually discussed the meaning behind God's word... As for my thoughts on the bible, I believe that there is underlying truth in it, although as we all know it has been written and re-written so many times that some things have been corrupted...which is the reason I would love to find a group to discuss it with.

In my opinion... you are a Christian. Going to church or being a member of a church doesn't make you a Christian. Having a belief and faith in Jesus as Christ andleading a life according to Jesus' teachings is what makes you a Christian. The Church itself is a building. The Church as an organization is just that an organization... a group of people who consider themselves to be Christians. The Bible does say forsake not the assembling of yourselves... meaning do come together as believers and uphold one another in spirit and in truth... that's why Christians attend church. However, attending church and being a member of a church is not a requirment to be considered a Christian in my humble opinion. Of course you may run into some sects/denominations of Christianity that state that you must be a member of their church to be saved... in my opinion... that's a load of BS. But then again, what do I know... I'm just a Christopagan Witch who doesn't belong to any Church or Coven... so maybe I'm just a bit biased. lol

you are a believer....like many others...me included....simply a believer....the Gospel has been made way too complicated by interpretations and opinions of men...it really isn't hard to understand, if you really want to.

randomhit10

Fairly normal.
You probably have your own religious tenets, to go with your beliefs.Just because they do not fit traditional or established church ones does not make them wrong. How do you think the "church" doctrines originally came into existence? Most probably from the individual religious experiences, and beliefs, of people.

The only argument comes from those who do not agree with the scriptures that are plain and clear.. Ephes 4:5 1 Lord, 1 Faith, 1 Baptism.. not many faiths just 1. to many makeing their own denomiations...acts 1:4,5 jesus told them to waith in jersulem untill they received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost..but in these men had already been baptised...why would Jesus being an example be baptised if it was not a requirment? Back to acts 2:38 why when peter was preaching did he tell them...Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins And Yes Shall Recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost... 41:) Then They that Gladly recieved his word were Baptized....Matt 3:13-15...Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John to be Batized of him 14)But John forbad him, saying I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15)And Jesus answering said unto him, suffer it to be so now for thus it becometh us to Fulfuil All Righteousness..Then he suffered him..if it wasnt a Requirment why did Jesus do it? Are we as Christains to follow after rightousness the ways of christ? or do we as Christains do what we want to do? that would not be Christ-like...since that is what Christain is Surpose to mean..john 6:32-70 jesus is telling them that He is the Living bread those that partake of his Flesh and Blood and beleive upon him shall be saved...what exactly would you say hes saying there? What would his Flesh be what would his Blood be?
I find it not boring to use scripture I mean if your talking about Heaven and Hell what is and what isnt important then I wouldnt want to use anything but gods word..

Me too (see bold) I just don't think God's Word is in the Bible. It's Within. But, it's not an argument either of us will win in this lifetime. It will remain the great unknown until the day we die.

I used to think my faith was a simple non-denominational Christian, since coming here to UM I have discovered that I am a BAQD, (Born Again Quaker Deist) with a fundamentalist attitude inside a hedonistic outers shell preserved with grace and Jamison’s Finest.

Irish The Baqd Lad

MissMels I think it sounds great.....

Can I ask you how the name 'Quakers' came about ??

Ya, it was an insult levied by an English judge to George Fox in the late 1600's. Basically, Quakers of old, when overcome by the holy spirit, would "tremble" or "quake" ... Quakers actually are called "Friends", but the snotty judge called Friend Fox a Quaker, so instead of being mad, Friends started calling themselves Quakers to take the sting out of insult and make it their own. Good folks. It was a sticks and stones my break our bones but names will never hurt us kind of thing.

......and they have a sense of humour, sounds like my kind of Church......

Oh some Friends are a little bothered even today when called "Quakers." Personally, I like what the name represents. Water off a ducks back and all that

You can always make me laugh, Irish...

christian. really.

I think Quakers are

A Good start!

My religion is unconditional love. Same as My Father's and Mother's (God) Of my Eternal Spirit, Iam accountable for the love I give and recieve, Not my Brother Jesus.
He can and will forgive for Father, and does pass prayers on to Father, if you do not think God can answer your prayers, or hear you. He passes these prayers on to the creator of this world and every spirit in it, which makes up the physical in it. Heavenly Father and Mother, together make one God.
Mother is the Holy Spirit, They are inseparable and have created every spirit in this Universe, including but not limited to brother Jesus, who camwe in that life to show how to be accountable and that the ten commandments could be kept

Acountability is what my brother Jesus taught, not laying sins on the innocent.
When one does wrong, Repent to the one wronged and make ammends to him helping him, to recoup his loss, wether it bbe emotional physical or monetary, when one does this he can know for certain that God the Father is proud of the individual accountability of his child, for nurturing his brother, and learning the diferance at the same time.

Because being accountable for our wrongs is such a monumental task, the sin will not be readil.y repeated because one will remember the remorse of making ammends and seeing/ feeling the one wronged's, pain.
Or one can just say Jesus died for our sins and continue on.
Viva la diferance.

Love Omnaka

I am lucky, I have a wife and children to share my belief and love with, but I share my love with every one I meet, there fore making the whole world my church.
And when I bless the land on my property (God's Property), I get bmy one on one time with Father and Mother(God) that is besides the every day/ hour that I spend talking to them in my every day life.
If one reads the bible he wil find the book to be a big love story. and one can read this book then go out and make his own love story worthy of the ones in the book written about lives long past.

God is not stagnant and lives in the spirit of love, our love, which can be shared By and to all religions and denominations, true love is the religion and way of our spirit, and our heavenly eternal Family. It knows no bounds and is trhe secret to creation.

Love Omnaka