Hi, did anyone ever wonder, the people that are really limited are the ones that are to bound to common knowledge?

Those people went through school and basically you can almost say they were brainwashed to believe that only science is the only thing to explain it all?

It could be the people who study science a great deal could be blinded so where they become skeptic of the things they think are not possible.

They learn only what they know from the books but they don't realize some of these stuff back then were not in the books until it was experimented.

One example is back then people believe the earth was flat, because of the common knowledge that they see the the land is flat, but later was discovered it was not.

I believe the real psychics out there will full potential will never reveal themselves for the sake of themselves, and to keep away from media and government.

I believe some skeptics on here are limited to common knowledge and only believe what has been put in the books and what they see.

The way I see it, there is a lot more to be discovered, unfortunately we won't go to far since a majority of skeptics limit themselves and people around them.

not another "why skeptics suck" thread.

Be skeptical of the skeptics

Everytime I read one of these threads it reminds me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQJ4VBq4n3U

The limits of science!

our knowlege should not rely on books
i remember this line "a man of science is a poor philosopher"
a man of science belief usually are based on existing theory or things which can be explained through experiments
and also this one "give us time and we will explain everything"
i can say that this one will fail
the creator creates us with mind which cannot understand all i mean a limited mind eventhough it has a huge capacity
the creator knows such things which cannot be understand by humans
and be contented on what knowledge you have
i also remember this line "those who seek enlightenment will not be save"
and my line "don't expaect just be ready"

OMG thank you, those words have been hidden deep in my mind for some time now, You just helped me on knowing what i want to express.

A man of science is a poor Philosopher and I agree 100%

Very seldom i know any men of sciences that are open minded to the Paranormal Science.

I believe the the paranormal is a science within itself.

Don't insult the word "science".

lol, philosiphers ARE SCIENTISTS!!!!! Jeez, where do you get this stuff?

Like i mentioned before, People used to think the earth was flat, those are the skeptics.

The people that were not skeptics went and tried to prove the earth was not flat, and they succeeded, perhaps one day the non skeptics can prove the skeptical people wrong. history repeats


Oh yeah i would like to know where in the posts above i said word for word that "Philosophers are scientists"? - Hmm thought so

But really what is the point of Video and Photo Evidence when it will get attacked by the words "That is fake"

How can a person prove something they only see themselves?

Hmm and in the same paragraph you say that the skeptics were the ones who thought the world was flat HA!!!! Skeptics are in the minority, and the MINORITY thought the world was round. Let me put this in a way that a 'philospher' can understand.

Columbus says, hey the world is round!
The people come back with PROVE IT!!!!

HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAN A SKEPTIC NOW-A-DAYS asking for PROOF!!!!

God, I swear it is like banging my head against a wall. Columbus, and others of his ilk, were smart enough to realize people do not believe just words. Well smart people anyway. So he PROVED it. Just like us skeptics now ask for PROOF. So instead of whining about how us mean ole skeptics wont let you make outrageous claims. PROVE that your claims are NOT outrageous.

Of course that would effectivly 'shut us up' instead of just telling us to shut up (not in so many words, but I got the picture) But here we are still, over 400 years later people are still spouting the same nonesence (world is flat/i can do magic) Well don't forget what happened to the 'Witches' of that era. Good thing the skeptics didn't ask for proof then, some people could have been saved from terrible deaths.

You have very good points there. So i won't argue with that.

But then it begs the next question if ESP, Telekinesis etc could be proven by a person, would the government take that person away? and then deny everything as if nothing ever happened?

They only see these things themselves? Isnt that the first sign that its all in your head?

Fair enough!! I don't deny that IF this stuff exists that the govt(s) (all of em, well the big'uns) Would have people that specalized in these 'areas'. If I am not mistaken 'remote viewing' has been made public knowledge (well the fact that the US used it during the Cold War) So they obviously have an interest. Of course, IF these things were real, would not more people than the 'few' teachers I see have the abilities? Would there not be reports of the govt(s) taking away 'psychics (wish I could have found a better word)'

Well I continue to try to figure if this stuff is real. Don't get me wrong, a skeptic I might be. But I am willing to say that this is real, if I can see some valid proof. Until then, and I cant stress this enough, it is all smoke and mirrors to me.

ps (It would add tons of credibiltiy to the 'psychics' if they would not get so upset when asked for proof, I know some skeptics can be harsh (myself included). My excuse, when these people say/type this hocus pocus, they are trying to lie to me. I do not like it when I am lied too, I give them respect by not lying. What am I supposed to think when I ask:

Can I have proof?

and my response is either ignored, or met with...

I don't 'do' proof.

Well then you don't do truth either, I hate to say that and judge. But actions speak volumes, and words only make sentences.

What i meant is only 1 time.

Lets say i saw a UFO, and you guys were not there to see it, So how would i prove it?

I guess skeptics and non skeptics are at a loss.

Since No one can prove that it exists or does not exist.

One of those Neutral kinda things

Technically everything you see is all in your head. And if two people see the same thing? Yep, each one has their own view of said 'thing' so each view would be in the respective head. Just because you can not see something does not mean it is not there. Now if someone can see something I can not see, then there may be a problem. But who am I to say the problem lies with them, unless they are the ONLY one who can see it. For all I know my brain cant handle the input it is recieving so it 'blocks' out what is sending it.

(Im no brain surgeon of course, just trying to offer execeptions to the 'rule')

this line "a man of science is a poor philosopher" is said by a philiosopher i think (i just forgot the name)
and not all man of science are that one that are called scientist
and in my opninion all studies are fall under science

You probably couldnt, so whats your point? Why should the rest of us believe you? At least in your example your dealing with a pretty mundane phenomena, but if you said the UFO swooped down to you and a little blue alien that looks like a telletubby waved at you, then disappeared, do you think anyone would believe you? It could have happened, sure, but theres no reason for us to believe it if you have no proof, and its such an extraordinary event its unlikely to have happened.



You know quite well what I meant and what I was getting at.

before things might exist it should be first exist in mind and things which already exist will also exist in mind

saying that somethings is impossible it means that its not possible and when it does happen or proven it is already possible

not all unproven things is not real or lie but most of the people think that it is already lie, but when it was proven what happen to those persons?

we should not jup to conclusion anyway and because its not proven i might not believe you but im not saying that your a lier

I see what you are saying, if it poses no threat to others or myself, there would be no point in telling others.

What made you believe in psychics? Did you always believe in psychics, or did you receive some experience through books or personal observation that led you to believe in them? (These are just rhetorical questions)

My point being, is that the default stance on something that counters common knowledge *should* be skepticism. It doesn't mean what's being claimed is wrong, but simply to accept it because someone says it would be irrational. Some reason needs to be given to discard currently held beliefs for new ones. There is usually a reason why something is common knowledge, even if in the end it turns out wrong, and that is because the available evidence supported the common knowledge.

On the other hand people should still constantly question the status quo, like you said there is plenty left to be discovered. To claim people that go to school (I take this to mean post-secondary school) are limiting themselves to common knowledge though, I think is unrealistic. If scientists all believed that they had all the answers, why would they work at all? They are constantly questioning what is known and trying to find better explanations - or confirm current explanations.

Do people limit themselves to what is currently 'common knowledge'? Maybe, but if they do they would make very poor scientist or philosopher.

Incidentally that quote "a man of science is a poor philosopher" is often attributed to Albert Einstein, and is taken out of context.

imagination is powerful and people tend not to believe to those who says such things which just come out in their imaginations
why? because they have basis and they base on others research
what if that imagination is true which is not yet proven?
then how do we know if we just jump to conclusion that his ideas are just imagination without trying to study it
just for example that columbus says that the world is round, people think that he just creates story until people prove it

try to imagine impossible things and try to study it base on existing studies
do you think you can find explanation on your impossible ideas?
definitely no because your study depends on the others studies because their study is proven and widely accepted
try not to limit your study to them and you'll find answers

its just like that

Yep I sure did! Like I said, I was offering an exception to the 'rule' (rule was in quotes, because I am using it to cover a broad spectrum.) Sorry for the misunderstanding.

**EDIT**

Exactly why I ASK FOR PROOF. Of course, this time, instead of a round world we can insert 'Magic' and 'Fantasy', or even 'Truth'. Of course to sift through the mess we need PROOF! But nay, asking for proof makes you a skeptic, and subject to persecution.

You probably don't know what science is.

Science is not when a bunch of old guys sit at a table and arbitrarily decide what people believe. Science is an objective, transparent, self-correcting method of studying the world. If it's not science it can be subjective, unflexible and unverifiable crap, which is the case with psi. Science is the only accurate way of looking at things.
Actually, they are educated (not blinded) and they LEARN that some things are impossible.
What do you mean? That didn't make much sense. I assume what you are saying is that they learn outdated information. Well they don't. Science is self-correcting.
Back in those days, there was barely any science, since the church deemed it immoral. The church had it's own unscientific, subjective, unflexible (bible) way of looking at the world. That's why people believed the earth was flat, and why the sun moved around the earth. Guess who found out about these things? Was it the church? No. It was the scientific community.
There are no psychics. None. It's a ridiculous idea, and no one with any understanding of how the universe works believes in it.
Obviously, because it works. Science simply works. Don't you get it?
We are going way, way, way further than either one of us can ever understand. There are hundreds of thousands of scientists dedicating their entire lives to solving great scientific questions, creating a deep understand of the world, putting the pieces of the puzzle together.

The only reason science does not take psychic stuff seriously is because it is impossible. If today, suddenly, all scientists became "open minded" as you call it, they would look at psychic stuff, laugh, and move on to the next theory in five minutes.

Honestly, I practically dropped out in the middle of 4th grade, and never payed attention in school either way. I've come to the conclusion that science is often right, by looking at things not as I'd like them to be, but as they are.

Everything is natural and explainable by science, if you give science enough time. (my opinion anyway...)

Exactly what I think too.

I am really hoping for it.

I experienced a few things when i was younger and well into high school, I want to believe that they are just coincidences, but sometimes i feel there is more to it then that.
I also find it strange that many people believe in one thing and not the other. (Example, people believing in god, but don't believe in spirits, ghosts or demons, or people believing in ghosts and demons, but they don't believe in UFO's and vice versa.)

There are a lot of new types of sciences that needs to be discovered.

Bottom line is one thing i do agree that science does explain it all, but not everything can be explained yet until more tests, theories and trails has to be done before it can be considered true and why it happens. Because there is no way hundreds of people making claims and its all false.

Off topic question, is computer science considered as a science to everyone?



Hmm you seem to be a non-believer to the core, Not believing in heaven, hell, but you do believe in beings from other planets? But there is no chance they can visit us?

I find nothing wrong with skepticism, But to me you only believe in what you See and Hear and whatever the government tells you and not what seems to be like thousands of other people claiming certain things that they have went through. If the government told you that American Built the pyramids you would probably believe it right? Well since your a guy who likes to explains things logically tell me how the pyramids were built? and don't go into the whole log rolling thing either, Stones that heavy would actually crush logs beneath it, and thats a lot of damn trees to cut down for stones.

I am curious to why you are very very very skeptic about any of this? As much as I do respect some of your opinions but you seem arrogant and ignorant to certain people on this message board. I know all you're doing is offering the truth, But I do know for a fact that you don't have all the answers. Hell... I don't have all the answers either but "theory" is what tries to explain things that cannot be explained yet, until science can uncover it, So why not give it a remote chance that it is possible until science can catch up? Mind you I am not trying to make you believe in stuff like pulling a whole uneaten carrot out of my ass.

Oh well.. I am not going to ask or force you to believe outside of the box, But I do wish you would be more open minded about things.

That's just human nature. That's why this forum exists - people "feel" that there is something more to life.
Like what, in your opinion?
The thing is that none of the tests are necessary. We know what parts the human body has, we know what they do, we know that there is no way any of them can make things move without some kind of physical contact. That's why scientists don't follow up on ridiculous "theories" spun by some ignorant pseudo-scientists.

It's not the scientists' job to prove psi claims are wrong - it's the claimers' job to provide some evidence.
Not with the conservative definition of science...
I'm not sure about that (alien visitations of earth) anymore. On that thread some guy introduced me to some new ideas about travel.
Has NASA claimed that it saw a flying saucer? Could you link me to some information or something? It sounds really suspicious.

A vast majority of them are lying, have been lied to, have otherwise convinced themselves or have seen regular stuff and, because of their ignorance, decided it was a flying saucer.
I believe in atoms, quarks, gluons, other galaxies, theories, etc., even though I can't see, hear, touch or otherwise experience. Also, what does the government have to do with science (answer: nothing). I am not even American, I'm half-Finnish, half-English, and I have never lived in one country for more than 3 years (I've lived in 7 countries). The government doesn't say anything about science, or history - scientists and historians do. The government only runs politics, which have nothing to do with what we are discussing.
Science caught up in the 18th century and has left psychics waaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind.

Plus, nothing depends of the "theories". It doesn't matter what the theory is if the phenomena isn't real - there hasn't been a single verifiable case any kind of supernatural phenomena, so why even bother looking at the theories (all of which are completely unscientific, arbitrary and impossible in every sense)?

If I told you that I had a miniature winged pink elephant in my closet and spun up a theory of how it ended up there, would you start investigating the "theory" or would you want to know if there even is an elephant in my closet?
What's this whole "open minded" thing? What does it even mean? My mind IS open, that's why I believe in science. I am open to all suggestion. The pshycic suggestion is mindnumbingly stupid, illogical, unverifiable and arbitrary. The scientific suggestion is transparent, objective, well-founded and explained and universally applicable.

That's what open mindedness is. Believing in stuff that everyone says is impossible is close minded.

Fair enough

Well like i mentioned before, long before technology people could not believe things like computers and robotics to be possible, in fact now that they have robots that can "Memorize names and faces" I guess you can call it tech science, but for stuff like Psi, ESP and Ghosts, and since so many claim that there is something there, we can set it aside for now and consider it as paranormal science until it can be hard proven by science.

Well considering its not important to many and its not really affecting peoples lives, of course basically no one really cares for it. Either if it is true or not, and if it is, it will fall into a science catagory.

Fair enough.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhbuFlpaIGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQmbGMWlL7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKZXnmiUTgA...ted&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmbSupnmK8k
I suppose you be the judge



What about this guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-iK8Jr0nwQ...ted&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzloRnJYCsU...ted&search=
You might say he is a fraud i suppose. But again I'll let you be the judge


I know the government has nothing to do with science, But you don't feel they are hiding more then they actually let out? Suppose there is a way to cure aids but they hide it? Suppose Alien beings are real and they hide it? Btw i am talking about the US government only.

Impossible because you have not seen it yourself? Or because It hasn't been proven yet or is it because it conflicts with the natural laws of todays science? What if new laws were made or recreated? Then what happens then? Not that I'm saying it will happen, but just a thought.

I wouldn't really care too much, but why pink? Blue is so in nowadays.


The psychic suggestion is what it is, a "suggestion" and only because many people experience something a regular person would not. And who is to say that psychic theory isn't a science? It could very well be. The idea and theory is thrown out of there because many experience it, while its not important to research deeper into, because there are more important things to research such as Stems cells and all of that of the medical field.

Everyone? Don't you mean mostly everyone? Of course there are logical things that we know is virtually impossible and I will agree there are some nut cases out there.

Another question for you, if the stuff that cannot be proven, suddenly could be proven and becomes worldwide, what would your reactions be?
Would you admit you were wrong in that aspect or would you still deny the fact that is true? Don't have to answer me its just a rhetorical question.

There were people who thought cloning was impossible and ignore the sheer fact that it "exists", boy they were wrong

All that other stuff aside, are you trying to say that the US government is in control of the entire worlds population? They are going over to china and stealing thier psychics? Russia? England? Honestly, the US government may be shady, but they are not 'taking' every single 'psychic'.

Not saying they are taking psychics but i do feel they are hiding ET and UFO especially if other countries like France admits to them.
Also many reports say things about Alien beings speaking by using the mind and never uses the mouth to speak, not saying this is the ultimate proof but what is your opinion on this?


Here is a reference for France.

I have stated in another thread that I think Verbal Communication is a horrible medium. I am not saying we can use telepathy, however their are cases involving twins that leave me scratching my head. But body language, and other subtle things are much better at communicating than words. And who is to say that the aliens need a mouth to speak? We dont use our mouth to make the words, we use our vocal chords. The mouth is just an orriface. So, the aliens could eat via thier ears, and still produce sounds and 'words'. (Close your mouth and talk, you can still say things, of course they are 'mumbled' but with practice you could do much better) ie Ventriloquist...

True, someone can tell you they are doing great all they want, but the facial expression tells it all.

We actually do make words with our mouths, but we need the vocal cords to make the sound. Can you imagine a person with no lower jaw? How would they form English words without the tongue or lips? Which is part of the mouth?

Alright, if you want to assume that an 'Alien's' speach center is the same as a humans. Then there may be a problem with talking then. Of course I have not practiced talking without using my lower jaw etc. But if a Deaf, and Blind person can learn how to speak. Then I am willing to have an 'open mind' that a person without a lower jaw could do the same. Perhaps some sort of 'device' like what Mr. Hawking uses?

Yes, even if the Aliens can make sounds, no one would be able to understand it. I imagine telepathy if it was real, would be used by them to communicate on a different and universal level similar to things like body language.

A blind person can always communicate with words, and the deaf person can communicate with vision, but if a person is deaf and blind, like Helen Keller; only a miracle can get them to communicate.

But imagine the possibility to communicate other then using technology or body language, we can finally understand all those who cannot speak, or hear.

That is not fair, she learned to speak through much hard work and effort.

Either way, great conversation. On a side note had a visit from the Yahweh's! (The 'Orange Light's', Pheonix Lights, etc) They didn't beam me up, they were in the western horizon, as always. They gave me a fancy show this time though had 9 of them, and they started appearing from the center this time. Of course they still vanished in the same manner, opposite the way they appeared. I think they were taunting me, Im getting ready to move to California, so my camera equipment is all packed up. (Well not anymore, but they were done by the time I had my crap together) Guess I am taking a big camera on the road with me! Maybe if they appear again I will start a thread with my own video

(If 'they' are 'Aliens' and 'they' are taunting me, then it would reason they 'knew' I was not prepared to film them. (Telepathy hmmm? ))

Haha likewise.

As for Helen Keller, yeah it was with a lot of hard work and effort on her part, but i heard she was uncooperative at the start, thus the miracle that she was willing to participate in a blurry and quiet world.

Those Phoenix lights that you saw, was it in the country side or city?

They always appear in the same general area, and have been reported by several people in my city. (On a side note, and you may want to try this yourself) I have noticed, when I first started seeing these things it would be when I was talking about them. Usually five minutes into describing what I saw to someone, they would appear. This has happened on 5 seperate occasions when I told the story. However, the people who would then witness the lights, would be telling their friends and again the lights would appear. (I would be no where around btw) This has happened on 3 sepperate occasions. So if your bored, and have some friends to talk to. Read up on the pheonix lights, or I can give you more info on what I saw (heh, put your monitor towards the western horizon maybe they will appear whilst you read ) Describe in great detail what the 'Pheonix Lights' 'Prophet Yahweh' and other related stories are. (remember though, I AM a sceptic. So I still do not claim these things are alien, I just do not know what they are) I can can give a script of sorts I suppose, maybe that would be a good thread for me to start...

All well, feel free to ask for more info, there are several threads in the UFO section that I have been watching. Orange Lights, and then Documentary on the Pheonix Lights (thats in books/tv i think)

See, not all skeptics are that bad I am very open minded, even to the idea of PSI, but like I said all I want is some proof. I can't speak for anyone but myself, if proof was givin then I would be a 'believer'


**EDIT**
I suppose I could answer your question too

They appear over the country side of my county. I'm currently in Kokomo, Indiana (FYI, I am near an army base/prison. However, these are not like any flares I have ever seen...for future 'they are only flares comments'...

Oh, and I also get visits from 'Shadow People'. Remember, I take everything with an open mind. So they could be hallucinations on my part

I swear i would have said that if you didn't already post. and no not all skeptics are bad at all I am just glad you are more open minded then Mr. Wombat over there, which i don't think he isn't too bad either, but just a little arrogant of sort.

Hmm.. Any history of high drug use? Any family history of hallucinations?

For me if i actually see something, I do not consider it as a hallucination because i do simply not hallucinate nor i use any substance that might cause me to do so.
So whatever I see, I'll consider it as something, of course my experience isn't as crazy as what other people seen or heard.

I believe the human mind can be really capable of things that cannot be explained yet, because we as humans do evolve, and evolution is science, so it could come hand in hand with the Psi thing, and the whole theory that we are evolving slowly but surely. Hence why some people claim they have some 6th sense but it seems like a weak transmission or doesn't always "work" and in my opinion it is because it has not been fully discovered.

if science can explain every thing in a certain time it means that they will be able to explain the begining of eternity or the end of infinity or the exact middle of the loop

but im against it i think mankind would not be able to explain everything

What people in the past though was within the limits of reality is irrelevant. These days we have a solid, well-tested and proven base for our world view, something which people in the past didn't have.

We don't have any need to go over (and over, and over) the existance of psi/ghosts/etc, because there is no reason to - no evidence of any sort and nothing which would suggest that it's even possible. If tomorrow someone goes up to (for example) James Randi and levitates a pencil, scientists would scratch their heads and start studying the issue. But that's just never happened, and never will happen.
The government wouldn't know if there is a cure for aids because they don't research it - scientists do. Whilst the US government might have motive to conceal certain things of, for example, military importance, they don't have anything to do with the creation or publication of "general knowledge".
Impossible because it conflicts with the natural laws. The laws of, say, thermodynamics are real, like 1+1=2. 1+1 will never be 3.
Some scientific information of today might be wrong or incomplete in the details (for example, Einstein's theory of relativity doesn't work in the environtment of atoms), but these faults are tiny, and nothing compared to the changes it would require to possibilitate the existance of psi/etc. That's just not going to happen.
Luckily scientists don't think like you, because that's a giant waste of time
Because they think/tell people that they experience something a regular person wouldn't. It's human nature.
Scientists.
No it couldn't.
Scientists spent years on developing watermelons without seeds. Don't you think that, if it was possible, they would allocate atleast a bit of their time into researching such revolutionary, ground-breaking stuff, the discovery of the millenium?
I would be immensely and positively surprised, and I would immediately try to find out how it is possible, and try to learn to fly (or whatever). And of course I would accept it as a fact.
Cloning (which is a purely physical and in every way possible) is completely different than psi. A lot of scientific research and work was put into finding out about genetics, and there was some serious material to work on (for example Mendel had his pea plants).

Psi has nothing - nothing to test, nothing to research. Just claims by bumbling idiots who can't provide even a minuscule scrap of evidence for their awsome powers.

I think this says it all right here. At least this is my mindset until these people provide proof. Im not upset at them for not providing proof, so they have no right being upset when they are asked. Of course, no one is going to stop lying. And if the 'psychic' actually believes what is going on, then they will be even harder to convince that it is just good ol' science.

Check out darkbreed's 'lesson 2' or any 'psychic' that claims PSI-Wheels are more than Thermodynamics. And it is proven that thermodynamics are involved with said wheel. Of course there are no video's of this proof (I'm working on that myself)

Because I am tired of seeing this...

Skeptic - Prove it!
Psychic - You prove your right!
Skeptic - No you
Psychic - No you

Recess is over, so it is time to get off the playground. Im going inside to do some schoolwork, so I can end the Nuh-uh, Yah-huh fight.

True, today we have a solid and proven base for our world view, but no one knows for sure there are other things to be discovered. But the whole idea that "it will never happen", You don't have any 100% assurance that it won't happen, because its just that you do not know as well as I do not know, just because scientist says it's impossible does not necessarily mean it is not. You don't have to be so absolute in everything because scientist say so.

Again, they don't research it, but you really don't know what the government will do or their motives, although at this time there has been a break through for AIDs but in return you get cancer.

Aha but you see "might be wrong or incomplete" But in the end you are not 100% sure no one is. Of course Psi to Natural science is virtually impossible, But what if someone creates a new law like Newton or Einstein, just because it seems we have all the answers doesn't really mean we do through science. Can you honestly say as of today Scientist can explain anything and everything?


You don't have a sense of humor I see.

It's also human nature to think everything outside the window of science is impossible and will never happen.

Yes it could.

Well to this day there are still scientists researching psi and the sort in different countries, of course some will say they are wasting their time but that is just a matter of an opinion. Of course most of this you say is impossible, but only time will tell. Just remember some of the greatest scientist were once thought wackos too. We don't know if today there will be well known scientists making breaking discoveries. and remember human evolution can change a person to do more things we would think impossible.

So with that said, i suppose you then do believe the basis of time travel? It is also purely physical and it involves the law of light (Hope you know what I'm talking about) This idea has been proven by the already existing laws of science and physics in case you want to debunk that too.

Lets go with this, sure they cannot provide any type of 100% proof, but remember what i said, human evolution, humans are evolving slowly, so lets say psi was real, then it would be a very weak ability to start out with, similar to an infant trying to speak or walk for the first time, but since psi (if it was real) is not first nature to humans, it takes time to develop anything like it.

Don't get me wrong though, I am not a true believer yet, and you can call me a skeptic yourself on certain issues, but i do keep in mind that almost anything could be possible in this universe and i do not lock out any possibilities and I try not to, and that is only because, I experience certain things that had no explanation or I cannot explain myself. I have full faith in science for these explanations. We are all alike, we don't know 100% for sure about anything. Although you yourself Wombat, you seem so sure of everything is 100% and very absolute about it. I am not sure if you tried some of these things yourself or just sit there and say stuff like, "It is impossible" "It will never happen" "Its not real" How can you know 100% for sure? Did you psychically tried everything? and travel to all parts of the world? and when i say all, I mean ALL parts.

What if some of this stuff has already been proven but not made public? I mean if PSI was real it's not something to be taken lightly and it really has to be kept in the dark. Think of the political issues if people found out that not every one can be PSI or have Special Abilities. The normal people might call them freaks or something, since because you know its "Human Nature" to do so. Wouldn't you be upset if you were surrounded by people that can read your every thought? Wouldn't you do something about it to make them go away? Of course you would, But if you didn't know they could read your thoughts then no harm done. But remember this is only theoretically speaking only so don't jump down my throat and say "It will never happen"

I also want to add that things like ghosts and UFO does have some kind of scientific connection.

Reports of Car losing power when a supposed UFO is close by.

and for the ghosts thing, the IONs in the air rapidly increases, this is still trying to be proven though as to if ghosts affect the electromagnetic properties in the air and temperature.

If you consider it like that, then there is not 100% certainty for anything, except things of logic (such as 1+1=2). But that's not an argument for anything. I mean if you look at things like that, then it is possible that a giant multicolour meteor the exact shape of a victorian era teapot will crash into me on the street, whilst playing a Led Zeppelin album in a constant loop.
Again, if you look at it like that then nothing is 100% sure. But in practice it is sure.
Laws aren't created, they are discovered, and laws can't contradict each other, so It's not going to happen.

Of course I can't say we know everything, no one can.
Human nature is to belive there is something "more" out there, to question the explanations that we currently have.
It could only turn into a science if there was some sort of evidence of it's existance, which there isn't.
In terms of productivity it isn't an opinion, it's a fact, just like I can't say "in my opinion 1+1=3".
Time has already done so - science doesn't aim to find information by disproving individual things (such as psi), it aims to create the set of laws which reflect reality and which work seamlessly.
For example, scientists don't ask "does this tennis ball weigh 100 grams?" (referreing to "does psi exist?"), they create the formula F = ma, so they can always tell what the weight is.
It doesn't matter what people though about them, what mattered was their material, their ideas, their theories, their evidence, etc.
We will evolve ridiculously slowly over the years, but we will never be able to do impossible things. That's why after 3,5 billion years of evolution on the planet, there is not a single creature that moves things with it's mind.
I believe in time travel, it's an extremely well-founded phenomena, why do you think that I wouldn't belive in it?
Here you start out by assuming that it exists.

Even if it would, we have been around for 200 thousand years, and life in general on this planet has been around for about 3.5 billion years, yet we haven't seen anything do anything supernatural (hence the word supernatural).

I think people should be more amazed at what we DO have than what we don't. We are able to talk, listen, feel, move, think, interact with our environment, etc. Imagine if we couldn't move things even with our hands. There would be forums like these with people discussing "handokinesis" and sceptics saying that's it's impossible. And if it psi was possible, we would be discussing something else. It's just human nature.
Even if all our science was wrong (which, of course, it isn't), don't you thing atleast some things are impossible?

What either of us can explain is very limited, so don't be surprised if some weird stuff happens. Weird, unexplicable things happen to everyone, including myself from time to time. It by no means is evidence for the existance of impossiblities.
I aknowledge that nothing can be 100% certain (except logic), but I'm being realistic, not idealistic. Resorting to "it's not 100% certain" is wishful thinking, and not something that should be seriously taken into consideration. In fact, it even cancels itself out: it's not 100% certain that we DON'T know everything.

Do you see what I mean? The 100% thing is just not a valid argument.
I have travelled to dozens of counties and experiences a lot of things, but if it's impossible, I just can't experience it, no matter where I go or what I do.

But it's not even as if it's down to me. I am just one in six and a half billion people in this world (discluding the people who have died already). Don't you think that even one of them would be able to provide some decent evidence about paranormal stuff? I mean, if we discovered black holes, something so distant, so unnoticable and so completely different to anything we have on earth, don't you think we would atleast have discovered, during the 200 thousand years of human existance, that we have some kind of abilities?
Government stuff again? It's not like all the scientists of the world are under the microscope of the US government. And again, you are assuming it is possible, which it isn't, according to the laws of physics.
If that kind of thing existed, I wouldn't need the government (or whatever you're talking about) to teach me how to do it. That's like saying that the government is hiding the secrets of how to walk.

If the government couldn't even cover up watergate, how would it ever cover up something that is part of the nature of 6.5 billion inhabitants of the earth?

Wombat, you seem dead set that anything beyond science and explanation does not exist, so I will rest on the topic and let you have this one. If you are taking this as me admitting defeat to you, then so be it. I know that there is no convincing you about things out of the norm, unless by a rare chance it hits you dead on, such as UFO abduction, Ghosts In your house, and People reading your mind or moving objects in front of you etc etc, If course non of these will ever happen because they do not exist and never will exist. Right?

Although I am impressed with your knowledge so far, considering you being pretty dull with no sense of humor. (Throwing in some smilies once in a while won't hurt)
I take it that you attended school outside of the US? Not that is has to do with anything I am just curious. Correct me if I am wrong though.

But in the end it is non of my business so I do apologize there if i am getting too personal with the questions.

But be as it may, I still respect your opinions and skepticism just the same.

Just wishing that you are actually more open to discuss the matter as if it were possible instead of just being arrogant to anything you disagree on.
That would be closed minded on your part to just accept one thing and not open up to a possibility to another, but please try not to twist my words around like you usually do. and I can guarantee a few here would agree that you always do.

What about Einstein's Unified Field theorem? There's no evidence it exists, or any really compelling reason to believe it existed - other than he (and many physicists) believe current theorems of physics are too inelegant to be the best explanation. This is still being researched today.

Sure scientists come up with formulas to explain natural phenomena, but they do ask "Does this happen", "Does this relationship exist". You don't think at some point a scientist asked "Do sub-atomic particles exist?" Why would they do that? Because their observations didn't match theories. How is this different than Psi? (And it's true psi might not be the answer but to say scientists are wasting productivity by exploring this question is as unfair as saying Einstein's work on a unified field was a waste of productivity because he could never prove or disprove it).

And as for laws of physics not contradicting each other.. you do know Einstein's view of gravity is incompatible with quantum physics.. yet scientists actively use both theories because they work well and no better explanation has been found? (You could turn around here and say well that's because these are theories not laws.. but in the view of science nothing is truly a law, just something we haven't had reason to question yet - Newton's 'law of gravity' was superseded by Einsteins etc...)

I do agree though that psi will never be taken seriously until some form of 'psi' can be reliably reproduced in an observable setting.

I do not claim that science can explain everything. I do think that all laws of physics (the real laws, not what we say the laws are) are absolute, and that the only thing which could make us wrong about, say, the existance of psi, is that the law we came up with differs from the "real" law. But if the same formula can be accurately used infinite times, you know for sure (the only doubt being the 100% thing) that you've got the right one.
That's just not true, it all depends on the reasoning that explains the phenomena. With things such as psi, it hasn't even been proven that the phenomena exists, so how to even consider the reasoning behind it? :/
Right.
I am actually a very lively and happy person, with a great appreciation for humour. As an avid RPG player, I use smilies all the time, but I just preffer not to use them so much when I'm discussing the serious ( ) issues on these forums.

At the moment I'm living and studying in Finland, but I just moved here 4 months ago from Argentina, where I studied at a Scottish school.
No need to apologise
Me too, that's why I post here. If I considered my views absolute, I wouldn't even bother discussing these things (plus, these fundamental questions of life really make me think). There is nothing quite like having your ideas proven wrong and learning something new.

What do you mean by being more open? Believe it or not, but I actually read and think about what others say. I don't automatically disreguard it. I'm sure no one would call me close minded if I agreed with everyhing everyone said, but would that be good in your opinion?

Are you sure it's just not an emotional response to say "argh, I can't reason with this guy"? Because I sure am willing to reason, that's what I essentially do.

I'm not saying you have to agree with everything, I do not care to much anymore, because now I know you are reasonable to an extent, but you sure do bug the crap out of other people, with your bluntness, I am not asking you to watch how you say things, I'm just letting you know that you are being too blunt sometimes, No Hard feelings or anything. And there are some cases that people claiming something to be entirely nuts and out of proportion, and this is where i would step in and agree with you.