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user posted image rIn sci­ence, plen­ty of prob­lems are hard. But per­haps just one is so grue­somely try­ing that sci­en­tists them­selves have termed it, well, “the hard prob­lem.” How does con­scious­ness arise—the liv­ing, aware ex­pe­ri­ence of be­ing?Some the­o­ries hold that it comes from, or is even iden­ti­cal to, elec­tri­cal and chem­i­cal pro­cesses known to un­fold in the brain. Oth­ers say it arises else­where: in some even sub­tler, yet-un­dis­cov­ered brain pro­cesses, or per­haps a mind-stuff quite dis­tinct from the brain—some call it a soul.Few on ei­ther side claim to have fi­nal an­swers. But they of­ten ar­gue pas­sion­ately over who’s at least in the right play­ing field.Now a group of re­search­ers has be­gun a study that they say might set­tle the is­sue. “We can ac­tu­ally test this, and put and end to all these de­bates,” said Sam Par­nia, a crit­i­cal care doc­tor at Weill Cor­nell Med­i­cal Cen­ter in New York. Par­nia has spent years stu­dying re­ports that some car­di­ac-ar­rest pa­tients keep hav­ing clear, dis­tinct thought pro­cesses af­ter they’re clin­ic­ally dead and de­tect­a­ble brain ac­ti­vity has ceased.

Pa­tients com­monly re­count these men­tal ex­pe­ri­ences, which of­ten in­clude see­ing a light at the end of a tun­nel, af­ter be­ing re­vived.Parnia and colleagues aim to put these re­ports to a test: spe­cif­ic sounds will be played to such pa­tients, and they’ll be asked to re­call the sounds af­ter re­viv­ing. If they do, it would con­firm the ac­counts of thoughts with­out brain ac­ti­vity—sup­port­ing the claims that “con­scious­ness is a sep­a­rate, yet un­disco­vered sci­en­tif­ic ent­ity” from the brain, Par­nia wrote in a pa­per in the the April 23 ad­vance on­line edi­tion of the re­search jour­nal Med­i­cal Hy­pothe­ses.The study “looks like an in­ter­est­ing pro­pos­al,” wrote Da­vid Chal­mers, a phi­los­o­pher and di­rec­tor of the Cen­tre for Con­scious­ness at the Aus­tral­ian Na­tional Un­ivers­ity in Can­ber­ra, Aus­tral­ia, in an e­mail. If the claims are con­firmed, it would “pose an in­ter­est­ing chal­lenge for sci­en­tists to ex­plain,” re­marked Chal­mers, au­thor of sev­er­al books on con­scious­ness.

linked-image View: Full Article | Source: World Science
Aaron Whisman
I have asked myself this many times..

And scientists saying "the hard problem" makes me giggle like a little school girl for some reason. I think it's because of this article on The Onion I read a while back: National Science Foundation: Science Hard.
Shuriken
I have a better solution...
Eat a lot of mushrooms at once and just take a look at your conciosness
ShaunZero
And who exactly is going to volunteer to be killed and revived? =O

Do you know how amazing it would be if we confirmed consciousness was seperate from the brain? It would force some scientists to at least consider "spirituality" plausible. Don't get me wrong, I'm a skeptic as well, but I believe that our consciousness is a sort of "spirit". If this were confirmed, it would also lower my fear of death.
Cebrakon
QUOTE(Zero of Deism @ May 23 2007, 05:25 PM) [snapback]1690872[/snapback]
And who exactly is going to volunteer to be killed and revived? =O

Do you know how amazing it would be if we confirmed consciousness was seperate from the brain? It would force some scientists to at least consider "spirituality" plausible. Don't get me wrong, I'm a skeptic as well, but I believe that our consciousness is a sort of "spirit". If this were confirmed, it would also lower my fear of death.


tongue.gif That is easy. Simply study Psychical Research dealing with reincarnation. There are two major areas of investigation. One is the spontaneous comments of small children, 2.5 to 5 years old, about details of a former lifetime. If the Psi Researcher finds this family, then he is ready to study the case in detail, as Prof. Stevenson did in Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation. The other major area of scientific investigation of reincarnation is the study of Responsive Xenoglossy. If you find a really good hypnotic subject that can be put into a deep trance, they will be able to carry on conversation in languages they do not know in this life...sometimes dead languages, but if you know a linguist who specializes in that dead language, a conversation can be had. Prof. Ian Stevenson was good at this line of investigation as well.

~~Cebrakon
greggK
QUOTE(SaRuMaN @ May 23 2007, 05:03 AM) [snapback]1689863[/snapback]
linked-imageIn sci­ence, plen­ty of prob­lems are hard. But per­haps just one is so grue­somely try­ing that sci­en­tists them­selves have termed it, well, “the hard prob­lem.” How does con­scious­ness arise—the liv­ing, aware ex­pe­ri­ence of be­ing?Some the­o­ries hold that it comes from, or is even iden­ti­cal to, elec­tri­cal and chem­i­cal pro­cesses known to un­fold in the brain. Oth­ers say it arises else­where: in some even sub­tler, yet-un­dis­cov­ered brain pro­cesses, or per­haps a mind-stuff quite dis­tinct from the brain—some call it a soul.Few on ei­ther side claim to have fi­nal an­swers. But they of­ten ar­gue pas­sion­ately over who’s at least in the right play­ing field.Now a group of re­search­ers has be­gun a study that they say might set­tle the is­sue. “We can ac­tu­ally test this, and put and end to all these de­bates,” said Sam Par­nia, a crit­i­cal care doc­tor at Weill Cor­nell Med­i­cal Cen­ter in New York. Par­nia has spent years stu­dying re­ports that some car­di­ac-ar­rest pa­tients keep hav­ing clear, dis­tinct thought pro­cesses af­ter they’re clin­ic­ally dead and de­tect­a­ble brain ac­ti­vity has ceased.

Pa­tients com­monly re­count these men­tal ex­pe­ri­ences, which of­ten in­clude see­ing a light at the end of a tun­nel, af­ter be­ing re­vived.Parnia and colleagues aim to put these re­ports to a test: spe­cif­ic sounds will be played to such pa­tients, and they’ll be asked to re­call the sounds af­ter re­viv­ing. If they do, it would con­firm the ac­counts of thoughts with­out brain ac­ti­vity—sup­port­ing the claims that “con­scious­ness is a sep­a­rate, yet un­disco­vered sci­en­tif­ic ent­ity” from the brain, Par­nia wrote in a pa­per in the the April 23 ad­vance on­line edi­tion of the re­search jour­nal Med­i­cal Hy­pothe­ses.The study “looks like an in­ter­est­ing pro­pos­al,” wrote Da­vid Chal­mers, a phi­los­o­pher and di­rec­tor of the Cen­tre for Con­scious­ness at the Aus­tral­ian Na­tional Un­ivers­ity in Can­ber­ra, Aus­tral­ia, in an e­mail. If the claims are con­firmed, it would “pose an in­ter­est­ing chal­lenge for sci­en­tists to ex­plain,” re­marked Chal­mers, au­thor of sev­er­al books on con­scious­ness.

linked-image View: Full Article | Source: World Science


The heart can beat without the brain so that makes the heart a semi-autonomous organ. The heart cannot beat without blood. It is written, 'In the blood is the life.' Nothing would be alive without some sort of liquid in the body to remove the waste. So, that leaves the heartbeat. The heartbeat is sodium ions (Na+) and potassium ions (K+). I think the heart has a built-in supercollider called the Bundle of His. The soul may be located in the Bundle of His.

Cebrakon wrote:

The other major area of scientific investigation of reincarnation is the study of Responsive Xenoglossy. If you find a really good hypnotic subject that can be put into a deep trance, they will be able to carry on conversation in languages they do not know in this life...sometimes dead languages, but if you know a linguist who specializes in that dead language, a conversation can be had. Prof. Ian Stevenson was good at this line of investigation as well.

I do not believe that that shows any reincarnation. That would more be the memory of the earth. Our bodies are supposedly the dust of the earth. Every organ 'thinks;' it has a job to do.
ShaunZero
QUOTE(Cebrakon @ May 23 2007, 10:37 PM) [snapback]1691204[/snapback]
tongue.gif That is easy. Simply study Psychical Research dealing with reincarnation. There are two major areas of investigation. One is the spontaneous comments of small children, 2.5 to 5 years old, about details of a former lifetime. If the Psi Researcher finds this family, then he is ready to study the case in detail, as Prof. Stevenson did in Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation. The other major area of scientific investigation of reincarnation is the study of Responsive Xenoglossy. If you find a really good hypnotic subject that can be put into a deep trance, they will be able to carry on conversation in languages they do not know in this life...sometimes dead languages, but if you know a linguist who specializes in that dead language, a conversation can be had. Prof. Ian Stevenson was good at this line of investigation as well.

~~Cebrakon


Pretty interesting. Funny how studies of this nature are never spoken of by "skeptics" and "scientists". Quotes for obvious reasons. I do agree that reincarnation is very plausible. I've always thought so, and I've read quite a few interesting articles on it. At least I see more evidence to support it than I see to descredit it.
ValpoSeeker
It is quite shocking to me that so called mainstream scientists are attacking neurology and consciousness from a classical mechanistic level. I guess some things take longer than others but considering these are some of our top minds I am a bit puzzled. I do not claim to be an expert on the internal workings of the human brain but there actually is noone on the planet at this time that can even present a theory of how the human brain and consciousness are related, or even more simply by what process the brain works. I think we are closer than ever however to having a working theory. Why are scientists so opposed to spirituality? It seems to me that they fight tooth and nail against anything that poses a threat to their religion of atheism. I find this endeavor very exciting and truely believe that within a decade we will have many answers.[color="#0000FF"][/color]
Cebrakon
QUOTE(ValpoSeeker @ May 24 2007, 04:48 AM) [snapback]1691563[/snapback]
It is quite shocking to me that so called mainstream scientists are attacking neurology and consciousness from a classical mechanistic level. I guess some things take longer than others but considering these are some of our top minds I am a bit puzzled. I do not claim to be an expert on the internal workings of the human brain but there actually is noone on the planet at this time that can even present a theory of how the human brain and consciousness are related, or even more simply by what process the brain works. I think we are closer than ever however to having a working theory. Why are scientists so opposed to spirituality? It seems to me that they fight tooth and nail against anything that poses a threat to their religion of atheism. I find this endeavor very exciting and truely believe that within a decade we will have many answers.[color="#0000FF"][/color]


ph34r.gif This shows the power of Worldviews, which we pick up with our mother's milk, so to speak. Only powerful personal experiences can crack the Worldview. I am surrounded by intelligent people, college professors mostly, who are simply incapable of accepting the possibility of Psychical Research, Ufology, metaphysics, Toynbeean History or mysticism. I am lucky enough to also be a mystic, more or less by accident it seems. That does not refer to a philosophy. It just means that I have had mystical experiences, such as "Cosmic Consciousness." Thus we can put together a list of "forbidden sciences." I wonder if the extraordinary stupidity of our own academics may just be ignorance. Almost all the significant books in the forbidden sciences are long out of print and hard to find. Still, the Web may spread Enlightenment and it may be the light that illuminates the world. I hope you are right that the great reversal will happen within ten years. I might live to see it.

geek.gif Galileo had the same kind of experience. When he first developed a 20 power telescope and pointed it to the night-time sky, he was amazed, and quickly published. He was unable to get a single colleague at the U. of Padua to look through the telescope, or even AT the telescope. Fortunately, the commercial princes who ran Italy in the Renaissance were not so "extraordinarily stupid" (see partial quote from a letter to Kepler at the bottom of this and all my posts). The Princes (often Princes of the Church) gave Galileo all he needed to live productively the rest of his life, even after put under house arrest at 70 by the Inquisition. That did not slow down his research or his writing. The spread of telescopes and microscopes around Europe in the 17th Century may have helped trigger the scientific revolution. The Universities did not join the bandwagon until the 19th Century.

Prof. Ian Stevenson, the discoverer of reincarnation (in a scientific sense) and the greatest scientist of the 20th Century, had the great good luck (or merit rewarded) of receiving a huge inheritance from Charles Carlson, the inventor of the Xerox machine. Analogies to the Italian merchant princes. $1 million went to set up a chair at the U. of Virginia. More millions went to Stevenson for traveling around the world several times in the 1964 - 1967 period, when he gathered the material that he could verify and analyze and put in Twenty Cases Suggestive of Reincarnation. He was still living on Carlson money when he died earlier this year, Feb. 3, 2007, as I recall.

It is frustrating that the academics so totally ignore the Forbidden Sciences. I fear history will judge them harshly.

~~~Cebrakon
cyrus11
QUOTE(SaRuMaN @ May 23 2007, 11:03 AM) [snapback]1689863[/snapback]
linked-imageIn sci-ence, plen-ty of prob-lems are hard. But per-haps just one is so grue-somely try-ing that sci-en-tists them-selves have termed it, well, “the hard prob-lem.” How does con-scious-ness arise—the liv-ing, aware ex-pe-ri-ence of be-ing?Some the-o-ries hold that it comes from, or is even iden-ti-cal to, elec-tri-cal and chem-i-cal pro-cesses known to un-fold in the brain. Oth-ers say it arises else-where: in some even sub-tler, yet-un-dis-cov-ered brain pro-cesses, or per-haps a mind-stuff quite dis-tinct from the brain—some call it a soul.Few on ei-ther side claim to have fi-nal an-swers. But they of-ten ar-gue pas-sion-ately over who’s at least in the right play-ing field.Now a group of re-search-ers has be-gun a study that they say might set-tle the is-sue. “We can ac-tu-ally test this, and put and end to all these de-bates,” said Sam Par-nia, a crit-i-cal care doc-tor at Weill Cor-nell Med-i-cal Cen-ter in New York. Par-nia has spent years stu-dying re-ports that some car-di-ac-ar-rest pa-tients keep hav-ing clear, dis-tinct thought pro-cesses af-ter they’re clin-ic-ally dead and de-tect-a-ble brain ac-ti-vity has ceased.

Pa-tients com-monly re-count these men-tal ex-pe-ri-ences, which of-ten in-clude see-ing a light at the end of a tun-nel, af-ter be-ing re-vived.Parnia and colleagues aim to put these re-ports to a test: spe-cif-ic sounds will be played to such pa-tients, and they’ll be asked to re-call the sounds af-ter re-viv-ing. If they do, it would con-firm the ac-counts of thoughts with-out brain ac-ti-vity—sup-port-ing the claims that “con-scious-ness is a sep-a-rate, yet un-disco-vered sci-en-tif-ic ent-ity” from the brain, Par-nia wrote in a pa-per in the the April 23 ad-vance on-line edi-tion of the re-search jour-nal Med-i-cal Hy-pothe-ses.The study “looks like an in-ter-est-ing pro-pos-al,” wrote Da-vid Chal-mers, a phi-los-o-pher and di-rec-tor of the Cen-tre for Con-scious-ness at the Aus-tral-ian Na-tional Un-ivers-ity in Can-ber-ra, Aus-tral-ia, in an e-mail. If the claims are con-firmed, it would “pose an in-ter-est-ing chal-lenge for sci-en-tists to ex-plain,” re-marked Chal-mers, au-thor of sev-er-al books on con-scious-ness.

linked-image View: Full Article | Source: World Science


all i can say is.. What-The-F@ck?? whos the retard that wrote this story??? whats with then hyphens?? friggen write correctly or don't write at all.. it makes no sense... i didn't even bother to read past the first 2 sentences, i was so annoyed.... P-E-A-C-E.. see how a-nn-o-ying th-at is?
Aaron Whisman
..Cyrus...Time to lay off the PCP.
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