Before I get to what this is about, consider this passage from revelation:

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (1260 days)
And there was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was there place found anymore in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. . .

And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time(three and a half years), from the face of the serpent. Revelation 12: 1-9; 13-14.

Now compare the above passage to the events of WWII, beginning December 7, 1941. Think of the United States as the woman in this passage, Israel as the child, and Germany/Japan as the dragon.

Now consider Dorothy Gale as the woman in the above passage.

I'll provide some links with an explanation of this stuff later, but first, I will follow in a few moments with the traditional explanation of this passage.

The woman in that passage from Revelation is said to represent the Church; the dragon is the devil; the child she brings forth is Jesus Christ. The victory over the dragon is symbolic of Christ's victory over death, and the dragon and his angels being cast out of heaven.

There are two periods of persecution: both approximately three and a half years. These represent prototypical periods of persecution which God's people must endure. The dragon's taking down a third of the stars could indicate one of two things: it could mean that a third of the angels followed the devil in his rebellion; it could also mean that one third of God's people are killed in the war.

The dragon is later referred to as the first beast in Rev. 13. This is a symbol of the Roman Empire. The ten horns represent ten Emperors who reign during the persecution. The seven crowns represent the dragons complete sovereignty over worldly dominions.

Now comparing this to WWII: one third of the Jewish race was killed in the Holocaust. The war between Germany and the U.S. lasted 1248 days; the war between the U.S. and Japan lasted three years and eight months.

Some ideas and concepts tend to repeat themselves, and are eternal.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

Sorry guys, but the Revelation stuff about the dragon fighting the angel, getting bound up, and thrown into the abyss was all STOLEN by John of Patmos from Zoroastrian mythology dating over 500 years earlier. In the original version, everthing is the same except the guy fighting the dragon is Ahuramazda, and the Dragon is named Ahriman. Satan is imprisioned for 1000 years and Ahriman 3000 years. That's about the only difference. Both dragons rebel again and cast into the lake of fire.

So Christianity is essentially believing in a Persian fairy tale stolen from a religion that also states that the God of the Bible is an evil dragon who is the brother of the dragon in this fairy tale, Ahriman.

But they may have a point, for if we go back far enough, we discover that Yahweh was originally the Mesopotamian Storm Dragon, Enlil, who flooded the world becasue people were too noisy, and his brother Enki, is the water dragon in Garden of Eden who would be renamed Satan.

That's interesting, draconic; but I'm not sure why you are emphasizing the word "STOLEN". The whole point of this was that certain themes seem to keep recurring both in history and in our literature. I don't think there were any copyright laws in force when Revelation was written, so I guess the author was free to borrow from older traditions, was he not?

Exactly what prompted my reference to eternal ideas.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

Sure he was, but remember this was supposed to a Revelation from God, not simply taking an older, foreign myth and just changing the names of the angel and dragon to make it familiar and acceptable to his Christian audience. And if one makes the argument that "the Zoroastrians knew the truth", then you must reconcile the fact that the same Zoroastrians say that the God of the Bible is an evil dragon and brother to the dragon Ahriman, whom John would rename "Satan". So is that true as well? Actually, if one admits the Sumerian tales of a Garden of Eden, Tower of Babel, Great Flood etc are the obvious basis for the book of Genesis, then yes, the Zoroastrians were right, Yahweh and Satan are brothers and dragons. though whether they are evil as the Zoroastrians claim is a matter of perspective.

Well that's just it, isn't it? Whom you you brand as good or evil all depends on which gods you serve. It could also depend on what you are using the symbols to represent: Revelation was written by a Christian about the Roman Empire; some people would have seen the Romans as the good guys and the Christians as the bad guys. I was trying to relate Revelation to WWII, but once again, who the good guys were and who the bad guys were depends on one's perspective.

And yes there are certain eternal truths, and humanity's knowledge of those truths has always existed in part, but never whole.