Here is an excerpt from a person's view (after his friend called him a Raelian) on the Raelian ideas which I found very interesting since checking out Raelianism. I myself could have written this same article as it states what I'd like to say. I'm sure many will say they are a weird cult that you shouldn't get involved in and I would expect that especially from people who are having their beliefs challenged by all this but I thought I'd throw it out there and see what your views are, read it all before answering, my question is the last question in the excerpt. Seems I may be one after all too.


" Rael, who claims to have as many as 55,000 Raelian followers worldwide, believes human cloning is the secret to achieving immortality. But this is far from the most peculiar of Raelian beliefs. It all began in 1973 when Claude Vorilhon, a French sports journalist, claims to have encountered a UFO while visiting a volcanic crater in France. He then claims to have been approached by a small extraterrestrial from inside the craft. The being explained that he was from an extraterrestrial race called Elohim, the same word mistakenly translated as "God" in the Biblical Creation story. The alien is said to have explained the Hebrew word Elohim, translated into Latin as the singular Deus, meaning "God," is actually plural and refers not to "God" but to "those who came from the sky." In truth, this fact has perplexed monotheistic biblical scholars for centuries. If God, as they claim, is singular, why, in Genesis, does this singular being say, "Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness." Some Christian scholars suggest God the Father was talking to his Trinitarian counterparts, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, while others say he was merely talking to the angels. According to the alien visitor Rael says he met with, this plurality is a reference to the alien scientists who traveled to Earth 25,000 years ago to create life by manipulating DNA. It seems, our primitive ancestors could only comprehend the Elohim as supernatural gods, a bias that often dilutes what truth exists in many of our religions. Now that we have reached the age of science and reason, however, and can understand them for what they are, the Elohim are poised to revel themselves to their human creation. Not that we have gotten to this advanced state all on our own. The Elohim have been secretly guiding us to this point for centuries by sending human/alien hybrids to show us the way. Prophets like Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed and, of course, Rael himself, are among these hybrid beings. The Elohim specifically asked Rael to help spread the message they had given him on December 13, 1973 to the four corners of the world.

Two years after their first encounter, the Elohim again contacted Rael, took him to their planet and gave him an additional assignment. It seems they would like humanity to construct an alien embassy as a gesture that we are ready to receive them without fear or religious fanaticism. From the embassy the Elohim promise to help us develop a unified government, global currency, eradicate illness, suffering, poverty and eventually eradicate the use of money itself. They also want to teach us to better enjoy ourselves by taking full advantage of the leisure and pleasures we were designed for.
Although I personally find all of this extremely fascinating, and greatly appreciate many of the goals Rael’s Elohim have for our planet, I’m not exactly ready to climb on board the Raelian mothership just yet. So far I’ve seen little difference between the Raelian religion and most religions. They claim life was created by superior beings; that human beings don’t know the truth about ourselves or where we come from, so our creators have chosen a prophet to enlighten us. The Raelians even account for many of their ideas by citing the Bible, from their unique interpretation of the Creation story, to the resurrection of Jesus which they say was accomplished through alien cloning techniques. They also promise similar technology will eventually provide humanity with eternal life. In addition to building and embassy, the Raelians offer many other solutions for solving some of the problems facing our world. Firstly, they hope, by emphasizing reason and science, they can demystify many of the sacred beliefs that separate people. The Raelians believe that if there is no predominance of one idea or philosophy, then racism and intolerance will disappear. They also hope to eliminate human guilt over sexuality and have often been involved in controversial condom distribution campaigns. They hope science and technology can move the world toward an egalitarian and distributive economy in which everyone’s needs are met. But we must begin, they say, by teaching our children to respect the rights and dignity of others. For how can they practice what they have never learned? The message of the Elohim encourages us to adopt a panoramic, non-sectarian, non-fanatic vision of the world so that we might naturally respect and love the differences in others. As a rule of progress, the Elohim say we must act responsibly and have absolute respect for all life. This includes self-respect and self-love as well as respect for others. They also value World peace, non-violence, sharing and democracy in human interactions. The Raelians are the first to remind us of Gandhi’s statement, "We must be the change we wish to see." To discourage fanaticism among themselves, the Raelians insist that there members never act in ways contrary to their own consciences, even if requested to do so by the Elohim or Rael himself. With this principle, they say, no leader can force others to act in ways that are harmful to other beings.

Herein lies my conundrum; while I don’t agree with the Raelian’s specific beliefs about aliens, I find myself in almost complete agreement with their values. Hence, I cannot dismiss them as a crazy cult when they are, in their own way, working toward many of the goals I myself hold dear. In truth, I have come to greatly admire what I have learned about my Raelian brothers and sisters so far, am encouraged by the hopes and values we share in common, and genuinely appreciate our differences. Even so, how do I reconcile my disbelief in aliens with my belief in Raelians? If I believe Rael has lied about his initial 1973 encounter with the Elohim, how then can I trust anything he and his followers have to say?To answer these questions, I must begin by saying I don’t believe Rael lied about or made up his 1973 experience. Thousands of people, many of them reputable, including Air Force pilots, have reported seeing UFO’s. Yet these objects and encounters may well be psychological in nature and not physical. "…there are on record…" wrote Carl Jung, "…cases where one or more persons see something that physically is not there."1 These kind of collective visions, what Jung referred to as "visionary rumors,"2 may come from the collective unconscious shared by all human beings.
The old myths and the old religions have failed to reconcile humanity to the principles of peace, justice, equality and tolerance. In many ways, we are in worse shape today than we have ever been. Perhaps these very principles, almost absent in our global interactions, are themselves represented by the aliens. For our world today is split off, just as Jung suggested, from peace, justice, equality and tolerance. Because we have alienated ourselves from these eternal and axiomatic principles we have projected them onto aliens living out there in the endless Universe, in the hope we might somehow reach out them, or that they might come and visit us, even rescue us from our violent and self destructive tendencies. Maybe it would be a good idea to construct an embassy for aliens, as physical symbol and monument of our collective desire and intention to create a new world by putting these Universal principles into practice. More importantly, however, it is essential that we create such a space in out hearts, where we can become reconciled with the very values we have long forgotten and become alienated from. I guess I am a Raelian. How about you?"

The Raelian values may be legitimate, but I prefer to research their background. There are many organizations and religions with good intentions, yet their background has skeletons. I believe that if the Raelian movement had a head start, there would be literally thousands of skeletons according to their theology.

Are you aware of the Raelian movement's reasoning is somehow in connection to aliens and the Bible? With the exception of the removal of Adam's rib and the creation of Eve from it, I can find no such evidence that cloning is mentioned in the Bible. There is certainly no command to clone humans or any other living creature, nor is there any reference to the creation of life by anyone other than through the power of God.

I do not believe that God is an alien or that Jesus, or any beings in the Bible are aliens, and there is no credible evidence that aliens from another planet, galaxy, or dimension even exist. It has long been my position that the divine beings in the Bible have been mislabeled as aliens.

I encourage others to also denounce this claim, whether factual or not, of a successful cloned birth, in the strongest of terms. In my opinion, such an action can portend nothing beneficial for the human race and is simply a ploy for publicity to swell the ranks, and the bank accounts, of the Raelian group. Claiming that cloning either is the key to eternal life, or the directive of benevolent aliens, not only sounds like a con, it no doubt is.

"Oh, but what they say just makes so much sense!!!"

This is what Rael, Claude Vorilhon, claims makes sense:

· On Dec. 13, 1973, a French sports journalist named Claude Vorilhon came across an alien who took him into his spaceship, named him Rael and explained the origin of life on Earth. Rael last communicated with the aliens, telepathically, in 1998.
· Life on Earth was created by the aliens, called Elohim (translated as "God" in the Bible), who reside on the "planet of eternal life" (heaven) in our galaxy. The Elohim created humans in their image using genetic engineering.
· Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad were prophets sent by the aliens to educate humans, and they are all alive and well on the Elohim's planet.
· The Bible describes the Raelian story with imprecise language.
· Humanity will achieve eternal life through cloning. The next step is to transfer the mind and memory of a human to its clone.
· The aliens want Raelians to establish an embassy on Earth for them (near Jerusalem, if possible) so they can officially meet us.

Do you know what is behind all of this, my friend? The same thing that famous evangelists who convert you do; they want your money!

Cloned Babies - Eternal Life?


News on Raelian Movement

This is a question and answer page from the Movements website:
Does Rael receive a salary from the Raelian movement ?
No, the Raelian Movement is a non-profit organisation which does not pay any salary to anyone, including Rael, not even a secretary. All it's members are voluntary helpers donating some of their free time.
In order to make sure that money from the Movement is NOT used to pay a salary to Rael, there is a separate organisation named the Raelian Foundation that supports Rael financially. Raelians may make donations to this Foundation if they wish, but it is not mandatory.

You accept donations, where does the money go?
As our society is still based on a money system, the Raelian Movement too depends on donations to fund its activities throughout the world.
Donations made to the Raelian Movement are used for our two main goals:
1) to inform mankind about the Messages given to Rael by the Elohim (through flyers, posters, billboard ads, lectures, paying for the hosting of this website etc.)
2) to build an embassy to officially welcome the Elohim
No member of the Raelian Movement receives a salary, we all help on an entirely voluntary basis. This also applies to Rael himself who doesn't receive one cent from the Raelian Movement. Anybody who would like to donate money to him personally can do so through the Raelian Foundation which is a totally seperate entity allowing him to devote his life fully to his mission.
Where is Eve, the clone baby?

The Raelian Movement is an organization which is completely independent from Clonaid. Clonaid is the name of a project (not a company), and it is managed by a raelian member named Dr. Brigitte Boisselier. Neither Rael nor the Raelian Movement bring any funds to it, and they have no relationship whatsoever with Clonaid, besides their moral support concerning the cloning technologies. For more details visit clonaid.com.

....so you think some of the other religions beliefs make sense????

All religious belief could be scoffed at....I'm talking the values here, not what happened at Creation.
...and Eve from Adam is a pretty good example of cloning.

Here is a link to Raelianews, it offers some insight into what they are trying to do and achieve in the world:
http://www.raelianews.org/news.php?item.213.5

Raelianism 101

I have come to the conclusion that humans will believe anything, and call it a life.

I guess to even consider the whole cloning thing to be a reasonable way to immortality, one must figure out if there is such thing as a soul. If you believe that there is a soul, then how can two beings have the same soul? In my figuring, there would have to be a different soul inhabiting the clones body, then that clone would not be a perfect clone, and so it would not be immortality of the soul, possibly the flesh, but not the soul. Just my opinion.

I disagree with the raelianism when it says that cloning is the key to immortality. The key to immoratlity lies in realizing you arnt mortal in the first place. God thread though.

Yep, I don't really agree with cloning either, in a "make a complete human" sense but we can and are cloning cells in stem cell research and other projects which is a good thing. The Raelian idea of cloning a human as far as I know is that we have no soul, the end is the end and also from what I've read there is work being done studying how to incorporate the memories into the new clone but I'd see that as a bit far off yet. I see it compared to say a Christian who doesn't follow every word of the Bible, they have certain beliefs taken from the religion but don't agree with other parts. The cloning part of it all is definitely a moral and ethical dilemma but other values seem pretty good.

I also can't get the link up Goddess but have read endless links lately, pro and anti Raelian and am taken it on board to try and see if I might fit into it all. I don't believe in God because I just cannot comprehend how it all worked according to the Old Testament and how a God is up there, in me, any of it. but they basically answer every question I had concering our Creation if I looked at it as a tie in with the Bible therefore validating what it says in the Bible rather than an evolutional way as I've also become disillusioned with evolution lately.
I'm not really looking for a religion to follow, more an explanation how life got here but along the way reading about their creation explanation I have come across values and causes that I think are good and close to my heart. That's why I've put it out here, I appreciate what you are all saying. I know it's an odd cult or whatever you want to call it although they title themselves as an athiest/science religion. That's why I wanted some views on it all.

The lack of an ethereal substance or consciousness shows lack of philosophical depth in my view.

Wereallsuckers,
I think that this is an interesting thread.

The Raelian Movement or rather some of the concepts of the Raelian Movement aren't that out there and seem in some way no different than other religious views. Even though it does seem that there is a better method of payment for Rael and the others of the organization they are still being paid and a lot of people will see that and say scam. True, religious leaders get paid and there is maintenance of the building and literature etc but that may remind some people of a business rather than a spiritual organization yet the same can be said of mainstream religions. So in that regard one doesn't seem any better or worse than the other.

Cloning??? Well.... instead of cloning if a person considers the body simply a vessel and that the spirit/soul/personality is the animating force behind it then again they really aren't saying anything thing new there either. Reincarnation has that covered.

Sometimes I think that people feel they have to give ideas of love, respect, harmony with nature religious overtones as though the concepts themselves aren't worthy of attention and a lofty goal by their own right.

This is just my thoughts.
Regards,
Mabon.

sp. mistake.

Thanks for that Mabon. I think it does have alot in common with many religions and beliefs and if cloning is not seen as acceptable in this day and age it is really just a value that comes from our knowledge of what we know is right and wrong in line with todays thinking. I do watch many alien/futuristic shows and am constantly aware of how much is still ahead in our future that we cannot possibly comprehend as being what may happen. I see a lot of things today that could have been seen as morally wrong 500 years ago or more, times change and just because something is seen as unacceptable now does not mean it would stay that way forever. If mankind suffered a cataclysmic event and much of us were wiped out cloning may be a viable option for keeping our race going.
At the moment implanting of memories is a futuristic event but if you have seen Total Recall you could see how it (implantation of memories) could be part of our future way of life. By looking outside the square and taking any religious belief of another kind out of the equation such as our soul or spirit you are left with a platform on which to make other conclusions about our human bodys capabilities.

Getting of cloning for a minute, here is a run down of a book that is available, it covers basically a Raelian view without actually saying it, just in case anyone wants to familiarise with their thinking of Creation. Sorry it's so long.

High-Technology in the Bible


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by Doug Yurchey

There are readers out there who would be surprised or offended with the notion that high-technology was described in the Bible. There are other readers who have realized that the only explanations to Biblical mysteries are ancient Close Encounters. A good question is: Why are certain, Old Testament events written about in the Bible? The answer could be that these were special events between basically two groups of people: One group was the primitives or the general state of humanity in Biblical times. The other group was the relatively few HUMANS that still retained and utilized technology originating from the days of Atlantis.

When angels made an appearance, they were always human. Those who caused the Great Flood; gave Moses the instructions on building the Ark of the Covenant; and warned Lot then destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah...were human beings. But, these people had advanced knowledge and flew 'chariots' in the sky. They resided on the tops of mountains; well away from the simple world of Bible prophets in the lowlands.

The most amazing example of an Old Testament Close Encounter is the Book of Ezekiel. Read the beginning of Chapter 1 in the King James Bible...only imagine that it is a UFO landing. With this idea in mind, Ezekiel's experience is almost understandable. Ezekiel's Book was so controversial that it nearly did not survive the religious editors who did throw out the Book of Enoch.

'The Spaceships of Ezekiel' by Blumrich is an award-winning book that should be read by anyone investigating Biblical mysteries. Blumrich is a scientist and NASA designer of the Saturn V rocket.

In the beginning of Ezekiel, the prophet wrote of the approach of four faces from above. In reality, the 'four' referred to the landing legs of the craft. Blumrich was shocked when he read the Old Testament report of 'straight legs' of 'burnished brass' with 'round feet.' The NASA scientist himself designed the metallic, straight legs and round footpads of the lunar lander. The famous quote from Ezekiel is 'a wheel within a wheel.' Once the lander touched down, Ezekiel saw wheels. This is the exact chronology of what would occur with a modern vehicle. The UFO landed, transformed into a wheeled rover then rolled along the ground. Ezekiel was only familiar with wheels from simple carts that moved in one direction. But, the prophet described wheels that moved in all directions which was completely alien to Ezekiel.

Enoch was Methuselah's father and Noah's grandfather. His Book should be in the Old Testament. It has surfaced from independent sources which validate the ancient text. The Book of Enoch was edited out of the Bible by the Ecumenical Council for its controversies. Enoch, like Ezekiel, was taken on many flights by the gods (angels) and witnessed great horrors and beauty. 39/3: '...a whirlwind carried me off from the earth...' There are numerous references to whirlwinds which 'spirited' Enoch away into the sky. The angels 'showed me all the hidden things' and 'mine eyes saw all the secret things of heaven.' Enoch saw views that 'no man shall see.' In 33/4, Enoch states: 'I saw a great and glorious device.'

32/2: 'And thence I went over the summits of the earth, and passed above the Erythraean Sea, and went far from it, and passed over the angel Zotiel (another ship?).

14/18-19: 'I looked and saw a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal and the wheels thereof as the shining sun...from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so great that I could not look thereon.' Enoch mentions crystals and wheels. The throne could be a vehicle where the angels sat and underneath were fires from the rocket thrusters. The 'vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward and bore me into heaven.'

There are numerous references to PORTALS or windows where Earthly and celestial views appeared. 33/2: '...portals of the heaven open. 3. And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth.'

The Book of Enoch speaks of much destruction, chaos and corruption on Earth; as well as among the angels. Like Genesis, Enoch mentions 'giants' and 'the Watchers.' There were 'the Satans' - the 'Sons of Heaven' - 'angels of punishment' - 'instruments of Satan' - and the same specific Genesis angels: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, etc. 'God' is never mentioned; only plural gods or angels. Enoch was taken to the mountaintops where the gods resided. He observed things that no primitive could understand. The angels 'corrupted the sons of man.' It was these various humans, with the technology, that played God and decided the fate of the children on Earth.

The main reason Enoch's Book was deemed heresy and taken out of the Old Testament could have been the accurate astronomy. Page after page concerns the sun, moon, yearly cycles and heavenly statistics. 'Paths of the sun and moon,' 'their stately orbits,' 'courses of the luminaries' and 'revolve in their circular chariots' are only a few quotes of Enochian wisdom.

75/8: 'And I saw in the heaven running in the world, above those portals in which revolve the stars that never set.' Only from space are there stars that never set. Remember, the Church during the time of Ecumenical editing condemned accurate astronomy. (Ask Galileo). Religious officials wanted the public to think that the Earth was flat, did not move and was in the center of all things.

During these ancient times, there were mad scientists (angel-demons) who cloned anything they wanted. The mythological animals were real; they were genetic experiments. Also, wars of the gods occurred. Nuclear warfare was not beyond the capability of the angels. Robert Oppenheimer, creator of modern atomics and a student of early books of India, knew that nuclear wars happened in the Old World. The deserts of today are the result of ancient, atomic wars. Assuming that these conclusions are true: The Great Flood was probably green-lighted by good gods who wanted to reduce high radiation levels. Also...the perverted creatures and their power-crazed, genetic engineers needed to be eliminated on a global scale. The Earth was a mess and needed to be wiped clean.

There was a Great Flood that covered all of the land. Sea shells were found on top of Mount Everest. There is water erosion on the Sphinx. All land is a sedimentary deposit. Many Noahs sailed during Waterworld. The Chinese have their old stories of an Ark and a Great Deluge. Numerous indian cultures have their legends of a Flood, a Noah and an Ark.

Most people do not believe in the Biblical story of Noah because of a basic problem: How could a few people gather ALL the animals, feed and care for them on board a ship for months? The answer comes from...who controlled the Earth thousands of years ago? The angels (the humans with the technology) built the Arks, collected the animals and caused the rains. The chosen animals were probably the best examples of their specie and worthy of being saved. It is scientifically possible to place a life form in suspended animation reduced down to its DNA. This was the cargo within the Arks. The samples of DNA would be revived, later, after the waters receded. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention that Noah went out and gathered each animal. It only says Noah brought them into the Ark. If the 'life cannisters' were all assembled for the Noahs by the gods and the simple people merely carried them in and secured them in place, then this does explain the Noah story.

The world began again. In Genesis, it says that after the Flood: Noah went to live with the 'gods.' This was one of the few plural references that survived the editors of the Bible. The reference 'gods' was later changed to the singular 'God.' The simplified term was changed to accommodate a world that had become extremely simple.

Atlantis was Eden. Compare these two legends. Each was our mother-civilization or the place where we originated. Each was a Paradise. Each fell and mankind had to leave in disgrace.

It is not far-fetched how the people of Earth could divide itself into two races; a simple one and a complex one. If a nuclear war happened today, the survivors would continue in tribal communities. After generations, they would forget what technology was. But, the few who knew of the coming nuclear devastation and even caused it...would have protected themselves and be the few who still possess advanced knowledge. These 'gods' could deal with the numerous primitives as they saw fit. This concept is ancient history.

The Genesis story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is not a mystery when you plug in the idea of a modern technology. How do two cities, realistically, get wiped off the face of the Earth? The inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki may know the answer. Two, human angels came into town and warned people of the coming destruction:

19/17: '...Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.'
19/24: 'Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.'
19/26: 'But his wife looked back from behind, and she became a pillar of salt.'
19/28: '...the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.'
19/30: '...he (Lot) feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.'
The angels directed Lot and his family to save their lives by running to the mountain. A land mass can protect one from a nuclear blast. The cities were 'consumed' with 'brimstone and fire.' This is a perfect description of a nuking. A mushroom cloud moving vertically could be the meaning of 'went up as the smoke of a furnace.' Lot's wife did not make it; not because she looked back, but because she trailed 'behind' the rest of her family. A primitive seeing an atomic explosion would be more than stunned; they would tend to stop in their tracks. Not looking back is good advice to those running for their lives. The 'pillar of salt' could have come from finding her body later and discovering the effects of radiation. Finally, hiding in a 'cave' because of the fall-out until the land was ready for habitation is very logical.

Genesis 1/26: 'And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness...'
2/21: 'And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh...'
In Genesis 1/26, there are important clues that the creation of Eve from Adam was not conducted by a singular God. In this one sentence, there are three plural references: 'us,' 'our' and 'our.'
This was a CLONING operation observed by a primitive who did not understand. First, one of the technicians caused Adam to fall into a 'deep sleep.' This was the anesthesia. Second, a cell must be taken from somewhere on the body to create another body. The rib area was where the cell was taken. They 'closed up the flesh' is a modern expression describing the completion of the operation. Master-cloners could quickly form an adult and change the sex from the original. This idea was illustrated in a Star Trek Next Generation episode where a primitive was brought back to life and mistook Captain Picard as a god. He prayed to 'the Picard' and was later corrected.

Before the Red Sea parted, there were two UFOs leading the people out of Egypt. Exodus 13/21: 'And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them away; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night.' These objects in the sky could very well be spacecraft when you consider: clouds (or smoke) by day and fire by night. Rocket thrusters could create billowing smoke in sunlight. But, at night, the flames from the propulsion systems would be what was mainly visible. These chariots in the air could have held back the waters of the Red Sea with forcefields.

Exodus 14/22: 'And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon dry ground: and the waters were a wall (on either side).' With a flick of a switch. turning off the forcefield at the appropriate time, the 'waters returned, and covered the chariots' of the Egyptians.

All through Exodus, this Lord God demands that 'I am the Lord' and 'I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the Lord, your God.' In 15/3, there is a strange reference: 'The Lord is a man of war.' This is curious because it says God is a 'man' and not a very nice one. It is more like God is a big bully; having power over people; pushing his weight around only because he has the ability to do so.

There is a warning in 19/12 to 'go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death.' This Biblical God was not God. 19/18: 'And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire...and the whole mount quaked greatly.'

In Exodus, Moses was given instructions on building the Ark of the Covenant. The inventive genius, Nikola Tesla, wrote in 'The Wall of Light' that Moses had to have been a skilled electrical engineer. The Ark, Tesla concluded, was a very powerful 'condenser.' It created intense vibrations that could smash solid stone. The Israelites carted the device into battle and won wars with it; not unlike the vibration weapons the Fremen used in the film 'Dune.'

I Samuel 14/5: 'And when the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord came into the camp, all Israel shouted with a great shout...' 4/8: '...who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these are the Gods that smote the Egyptians...'

In II Samuel 6/6-7...a simple man named Uzzah, disregarded warnings, touched the Ark improperly and was electrocuted! '...Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.' The man attempted to place it back on the ox-drawn cart and died. They had no concept of high-voltage. 6/9: 'And David was afraid of the Lord that day.'

The story of Jericho is told in the Book of Joshua. The actual site of Jericho was found. The stone walls were over ten feet thick. What could bring down massive walls? According to the Old Testament, it was the power of the Lord. Marching around the stone fort and blowing trumpets could not possibly shatter such walls. The Ark of the Covenant was there and responsible for 'tumbling down' the walls of Jericho. There are numerous references to, again, a great shout.

Jonah was taken aboard a submarine. But, the prophets would not have that modern word; so the description became a 'great fish.' How were the 10 Commandments cut into stone? The finger of God could have accomplished this if they were lasers. The burning bush may have been electric. The Virgin Mary could have been artificially inseminated.

The Biblical reports were not understood 500 years ago or even 100 years ago. It was only until the 20th Century and its technology that we could finally understand what was really happening. There is evidence that our REAL prehistory was similar to science-fiction. Most people either reject the Bible as nonsense or believe it is the absolute word of the Supreme Being. The Bible is the most amazing account of Close Encounters. The events were real; they happened; but the truth is extraordinary.

Just how do the Raelians plan to acheive all that?



The Raelians aren't going to be any more successful at creating a perfect world than any other religion or philosophy. People can't create a perfect world. Human failings get in the way. There will always be wars, injustice, inequality, and intolerance. Nobody can eliminate them entirely. That's why the old religions have failed.

Wereallsuckers,
I don't have a problem with the concepts described in post 14 except when a religious face is put on it. You did make a great point about sciences now vs or how what we do now would seem a hundred or so years back.

I brought up reincarnation because I don't think that cloning is necessary and perhaps overtime we'll discover that for certain. Maybe it's the uncertainty that should keep us ??? Honest, guessing..

I am really enjoying your thread!!!

Warm regards,
Mabon.

I'm enjoying it too actually, I was a bit hesitant to put my thoughts out there but I couldn't help myself, I love hearing what other people have to say on things and it helps me look furthur into the puzzles. And Jim88 I do value what you said, I do have the answer to your question which I will try and post here soon and also you are unfortunately right I think in your comment, it's hard to make a perfect world with imperfect people.

I would prefer to not have to go into religion at all, I am not, have not, never will believe in God as what I knew him as before, I was an Atheist to the core, quite anti religious in fact but with this idea I can be free to still disregard him as a spiritual creator but have an explanation for all the Biblical stories I could never work out how the strange things happened in the Bible and why many have this notion of a God, I cannot deny God, I mean he is in every culture and religion, just in different forms and if I go on the path of those explanations I am in a win win situation by not compromising my own beliefs. It sort of makes the jigsaw fit in my mind.

I was watching Star Trek this morning and thinking about it all and to me, it's just such a natural progression that we will have alien encounters and how much these sorts of shows are almost predictions of the future. We at this time cannot comprehend I don't think how much technology will advance in the next 100 years, technology advances so fast, a computer I bought 2 years ago is worthless, threw it to the dump, couldn't give it away. Science also will advance so much too that I really think cloning is just on the horizon, as we already know the principles to it and do use cloning in other ways. Science is working on cloning, don't be fooled, it's not just the Raelians. They just got exposed, that's all and put it out there that they are in agreeance with it, which I like about them too, they don't seem to hide much really, no matter that they are being perceived as complete nutcases with no ethics, they continue to work towards what they believe in, I like that, I find it very refreshing in this day of saving face.

Reincarnation, it's a toughy, would be nice if it happened but it's one of those things I just can't grasp again, how the hell does it work? We die and our soul or spirit comes out of us somehow and what? our memories too and that then goes into an animal or newborn animal or another person or??? I dunno about that one. I'm not being sarcastic either there, I just work everything out logically, I need to be able to see how it works you might say. So I see the same thing but in a way that has mechanics of a sort. Sure I see some things in Raelian ideas that I'm not working out, I like to know how things work, it has to be logical, I don't just take it as "because it does"........"but how????" Maybe I do have Vulcan in me after all .....

Ever seen Lilo and Stitch? Alien scientist makes genetic experiments and is banished from his home planet along with his experiment gone bad Stitch....he has many other genetic experiments that he has made. Of course it's just a cartoon movie but the general idea is in line with the Raelian idea too. Life on Earth is a result of genetic experiments done by alien scientists after being expelled from their home planet.
If you look around you can see many things that tie in with their ideas.

Oh My! This is a delight! This is what I joined this board for!!!!
I love brain storming!!!! The coming together of curious people to discuss interesting topics!



This is what I am looking at the first thing in the morning! (Now please know that I am just stating my own opinion and understanding of these subjects. I am not trying change convert yada yada anyone else's mind then I want someone trying to do that to me. If this gives each of us something new to ponder, cool! So with that disclaimer in place we will now continue with our regularly scheduled program... LOL!)

Reincarnation as I understand it... how the personality is transfered is a mystery to me as well. I don't think that the entirety of (the sum of a person's life or character) is lost, gone, bye bye at the point of death. With each belief that tends toward the existence of the 'soul/identity/sum of the person, it goes to its own destination at death. For those who believe in reincarnation it's basically recycled until they can let go of all ego and desire then they don't have to come back.. and yes as they progress (hopefully) they return in a better vessel/ higher cast. Possibly the reason for this is the higher casts at one time had more leisure so more time for meditation and study etc.

I am not eastern I am western and yet the idea of it caught me.. so perhaps my views are a mix of east and west?
I don't know what the end result is.. if it a heaven type Nirvana or just complete understanding which may be the same thing. Some people think that the whole reason is to 'return until perfected' but they discount that perhaps this world is enjoyable.. So many religions state that this world is one of woe, a vale of tears, etc. But when they do that they miss out on so much. To me a lot of what reincarnation is about is choices and learning that each choice (not to the point of obsession) is important. what we do good or ill makes a difference. How we treat others etc..

So for me suggesting that cloning may be a viable option for a person to continue their existence in another body is an irrelevant idea, because I think it already exists. LOL! Memories of past lives come when they are necessary for that soul's next stage. Personally I think the science of cloning isn't far fetched it's the spiritual aspect that feels off to me.

In Genesis Adam wasn't alive until God/? breathed the breath of life into 'him'. So it would be with a clone. A clone may be a molecular copy of an individual but that does not mean that it is a blank slate to be filled with the soul/memories/sum of the original (best word fit here), because for me the moment it takes its first breath it is an individual. It would be closer than your child, parent or sibling, twins would not be so close as a clone and its donor. But think of the movie the 'Island' for an example. They would have to be raised and raising changes the equation. Even if they are grown in tanks that's like raising veal to me. *shudders*

Sorry to get so long on this but this is a great one!
Warm regards,
Mabon.

Absolutely! Let's braintorm away, I say!

Thank you for your reincarnation explanation, I have explored it on other threads here and tried to understand it in a spiritual way and I do to an extent. ( I think that ghosts may fit in to it somehow and be part of the reincarnation process.) I think another thing you mentioned was the raising of the clone would create different personalities, I'm unsure how the actual process would work to be successful. Whatever way it happens it seems immortality is the goal for it all. Reincarnation and cloning are very similar it seems.
I'm not sure what the answer is in cloning but I do think it will be part of our future, whether we like it or not.

I read all about Claude Vorhilon. How can anyone really take this guy seriously?

Yeah I know, I used to think the same thing but why not take him seriously? He may be on to something. He's just really into it and dresses accordingly. Many geniuses, scientists or people who really knew what was going on were and are seen as mad professors or eccentric.

Interesting take on mortality.
I'd like to hear if you have any other thoughts on my topic as a whole if you wish to share....

Yes, Claude Horhilon. For me therein lies some of the difficulties of it having a religious face. Whose ideas are being presented for what end and purpose? The ideas aren't as I said terrible ideas to consider. But when they are used to elevate a particular person or persons... I start getting skittish.

Oddly some of the points raised by Heavens Gate weren't that crazy, it's when they started passing out the shoes and the black clothing and expecting self mutilation..... Or Jim Jones... *shudders* again.

They can keep their track shoes and kool aid thank you!

There are going to be extremest in every group. And if something makes you uncomfortable, listen to your instinct and get out of it, away from it. But the ideas aren't bonded to the person's using them for whatever ends they hope to achieve.

Regards,
Mabon.

Forgot to add that I do think that ghosts fit into it... What are they supposed to do between lives. LOL! more on that one later...

The way I look at it is...what is he getting out of it? Ridicule is all I can see he has achieved, the people who are a bit open to his ideas don't number in the millions, he has a quite small following worldwide, he doesn't get wads of cash to feather his own nest, money given to the Movement is used to spread his message and help people who need help such as the women in Somalia to repair the clitoris area from genital mutilations and other causes that no one else seems to take an interest in. He hasn't asked anyone to do anything that goes against their conscience and that is part of the Raelian belief system. OK, his 'message' is just too insane for most to handle but he believes he has been sent this message and needs to let others know about it to save us from ourselves, can it be helped he has elevated to his status because of it? We see status of everyday people being elevated every day, whether because of a belief, being a pop star, I'm sure Britney did not set out to have a world wide status, she just did what she loved and believed in, a politician, whatever, it's just the way it goes. What is it really that's freaking everyone out about him? In my opinion too, anyone who used to be a motor racing driver couldn't be all that bad.....

Jim, I have been trying to cut and paste some paragraphs but seem unable to from Adobe, but if you are actually interested in the answer you can download Rael's book Intelligent Design in e-book form and go to Chapter 6 - The New Commandments Geniocracy, Humanitarianism and World Government. They explain how we are to do this. I could condense it into an answer for you but I'm afraid I would not explain it properly.

Thanks for the information. I'm not going to buy his book though. I'm not that interested in finding out how the Raelians plan to acheive their goals.

No worries, it is a FREE download though.

I have been pondering what you say here for a few days and your previous post too, because as you know I often have to think alot about what you say.... Did you know the philosophy of the Raelians is 'to participate in the awakening of Humanity and the development of the cosmic consciousness'? I'm not sure however if you are referring to a clone having a lack of these things or the Raelian belief. If they are aiming to develop our consciousness to embrace cosmic thought I'd think they do not lack consciousness, but have it in abundance and want everyone else to have it in abundance. If you are speaking of clones, you are really only summising from what you know is possible at this point in time. Consciousness is part of the human body and human brain, if a human body was cloned it would also have all the brain function of it's predessessor including it's consciousness.

Your other post states that the key to immortality lies in realizing you arent mortal in the first place. So you are saying that if we believe we don't die that is the only way we will find immortality?Possibly perhaps, but maybe cloning is just a different way to immortalise us. The way we know cloning now is fairly different to how they explain it will be used in the future.

Having been in many alien and cosmic threads these last few days I just find it extremely hard to accept they are not part of the 'big picture'. If you believe in the reptilian humanoids you must entertain the fact that we have been in contact with them on an interbreeding level. Actually, could do with your help in an Annunaki thread I'm in now, what are some Hindu texts I can reference and do you know of any parts that mention technology advanced from what they knew?

Why should cloning create an 'empty shell'?

Dolly the sheep was a fully functional sheep was she not? I'm not sure if she had a distinctive sheep 'personality' but, apart from the premature ageing due to her genetic age at 'birth', she seemed perfectly normal. Why would a human clone not be the same?

I dont see how cloning is gonna hel advance human beings to become immortal except on a physical level. As for the participating of the developement of cosmic consciousness, what do they mean when they say 'cosmic consciousness'. Because cosmic consciousness from what I have read is in fact our actual true nature and therefore is alway awake if one but realizes it (i havnt realized it).



I dont really know any hindu texts that refer to technologically advance beings. I only get into Hinduism spiritual texts like Bhagavad Gita etc. Hinduism is so VAST that it would take a lifetime for a person to study and get through all the myths(?).

OK, lets disect Cosmic Consciousness shall we, cause it's an interesting thing if you ask me, here is some definition information: (I think it also ties in with your comment on immortality)

Definitions of COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS on the Web:

Universal life and order revealed to the mind of man; understood as the highest state of consciousness providing intellectual as well as spiritual illumination.
www.spiritopics.net/terms-a-h.html

(1) God's awareness of himself in and as the cosmos. (2) Man's awareness of himself as he lives, moves, and has being within the spheres of God's cosmic Self-awareness. The awareness of oneself fulfilling the cycles of the cosmos in and through the Great God Self; the awareness of the self as a part of God in cosmic dimensions; the attainment of initiations through the blessedness of the Cosmic Christ leading to God Self-realization in the Universal One.
www.washingtondcteachingcenter.org/teachings.html

Collective unconscious is a term of analytical psychology, and was originally coined by Carl Jung. He distinguished the collective unconscious from the personal unconscious, which is particular to each human being. The collective unconscious refers to that part of a person's unconscious which is common to all human beings. It contains archetypes, which are forms or symbols that are manifested by all people in all cultures. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Consciousness
Cosmic Consciousness


Cosmic Consciousness was coined by the Canadian psychologist Richard M. Bucke, in his book �Cosmic Consciousness� 1902. He describes Cosmic Consciousness as a transpersonal mode of consciousness, an awareness of the universal mind and one's unity with it. Cosmic Consciousness prime characteristic is an awareness of the life and order in the universe.

An individual who attains the state of Cosmic Consciousness is often described as 'Enlightened' and such a person is also said to have a sense of immortality, not of attaining it but of already having it. Burke saw this state of consciousness as the next stage in human evolution, very much as spiritualists have always seen it.

Bucke argues that during the course of humanity's evolutionary development there are three forms of consciousness.

Simple Consciousness, our instinctual consciousness.
Self Consciousness, that self-awareness that allows a human to realize hirself as a distinct entity.
Cosmic Consciousness, a new developing faculty at the pinnacle of our evolution.

Bucke outlines the evolutionary struggle on our planet which has produced self-consciousness and then describes the appearance of a new species that possesses cosmic consciousness, a consciousness that expands to become one with all. Bucke theorizes that, with increasing frequency, persons like Buddha, Christ, Mohammed, Walt Whitman and others are making their appearance on our planet and by their teaching are helping to transform life on this planet. This evolutionary process continues up until today. Bucke studied the lives of these persons that had attained cosmic consciousness and found common characteristics such as:

intuitive understanding
elevated moral stature
loss of sense of sin
intellectual illumination
sense of immortality
no fear of death
definite moment or period of transformation

"The person who passes through this experience will learn in the few minutes, or even moments, of its continuance more than in months or years of study, and he will learn much that no study every taught or can teach. Especially does he obtain such a conception of *the whole*...Along with moral elevation and intellectual illumination comes what must be called, for want of a better term, a sense of immortality."

These are good explanations methinks, I particularly like the first explanation given in definitions: "Universal life and order revealed to the mind of man; understood as the highest state of consciousness providing intellectual as well as spiritual illumination."
but since Bucke coined the term I guess his interpretation is the best to take. It says to me the key or realising our sense of immortality lies in attaining Cosmic Consciousness which is in his terms is "awareness of the life and order of the Universe". (Similar to what you say that consciousness is awareness)
Raelians seek to be aware and make others aware of the life and order of the Universe by putting forward an explanation that if embraced will lead to this cosmic awareness. (Hence a sense of immortality)

So this is a Raelian belief also and actually very spiritual, it's said in the 3rd book Intelligent Design, Message from the Designers that Buddhism is closest to Raelianism in a sense of the Truth and more and more Buddhists are converting to Raelianism. They apparently don't have the mystical load of the past to deal with. I think you would find all 3 books an excellent read and very different from what you expect to find. I have downloaded it free from the internet in 3 in 1 book form and read it from my computer. I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I just think you would find something you don't expect. It was a real epiphany for me to discover this journey I am now on. I really believe this has changed my life and what I was waiting for all this time. You know yourself how confused I was trying to seek my religious path and understand your religious views and others on the boards so I could see where I fit into it all. I've found it and I truly believe in it's message. Not only the explanations behind our Creation but how it ties into God and religion and most of all the message it is giving me regarding our place in the universe and how I can enhance my life by it's values and philosophies.

Yay! You've gotten back over here!!!

Honestly, I feel that there is argh, how to define this?? there seems to be a theme (some may call truth) that is constant in every belief system. It may be hidden by the rituals, dogmas and trappings of each belief system but if all that is stripped away there seems to be this 'thing' that is there, hidden waiting to be discovered. Like every culture got a part of the puzzle and they really should try to get over the rituals/dogma/trappings and see past that to know that they are trying to achieve the same thing. (IMHO)

The really funny part is that you can find this 'theme' in secular ideas too. Songs, stories, etc and yet I find it amazing when people choose to ignore what's right under their nose. LOL!

Warm Regards,
Mabon.

Yes, I finally extracted myself out of the Annunaki thread...lol
Absolutely, I am sort of discovering this and in writing my post to Brave I see that as what it is. If we all took the trappings away we are all reaching for the same thing, I guess it's just a matter of what we do and how we do it to get to the place we are seeking. I've said before too I am quite against religion, (I never believed in God and still don't, the idea of an entity creating us was just too much for me to fathom) as I don't like the trappings nor understood what purpose people found in it and therefore my whole life, as soon as I could, rejected it because I just couldn't understand why anyone needed it but found an intense interest in knowing about it because there is a key to it all. It's the key of knowledge I am trying to unlock more than looking to be part of a religion and following any of the rituals and trappings.

My need is to know why we are here and how to best enhance my life, the same I'm sure goes for many traditional religions, many are just bogged down by the 'trappings' and can't see another way because it's hard to disassociate from your beliefs. Jim88's post did not surprise me since he believes in God and that is a typical response from anyone who has their beliefs challenged. In a thread I was in once a question was asked if you would change your beliefs and it seemed every answer was a resounding NO! I found it odd at the time because I fluctuated very easily in what I thought (possibly because I did not know which sounded the best path) but since I have found what I believe is the answer to all my questions I can see that maybe they must have felt that way too. They had found their key and unlocked their answer. I am just unlocking my answer now but I 'think' it is the answer I've been looking for all along.

I can't believe this has been right under my nose and yet it's taken me so long to find it!

Here we go Brave, lots of info pertaining to advanced technology (I didn't say beings) in Hindu texts in case you want to check it out:
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas.htm

Good stuff!

I found this at the sight:

"That which we call the Hindu religion is really the Eternal religion because it embraces all others."

(source: The Wisdom of Hindu Gurus -Timothy Freke pg 56 ).

Again, awesome sight weareallsuckers Hinduism is great because it sees eternity as the source of all. Therefore it recognizes that even raelianism is one of many infinite manifesations of of eternity, the same goes for atheism. EVERYTHING! If it embraces everything then how could I ever look else where?

And this:

Hinduism according to him is not a religion, but a commonwealth of religions. “It is more a way of life than a form of thought….The theist and the atheist, the skeptic and the agnostic may all be Hindus if they accept the Hindu system of culture and life. Hinduism insists not on religious conformity but on a spiritual and ethical outlook of life…Hinduism is not a sect but a fellowship of all who accept the law of right and earnestly seek for the truth.�

(source: The Hindu View of Life - By S. Radhakrishnan p. 77).

Mabon,

Below the tenets of any belief system is one undeniable fact. We search for purpose.

With consciousness and the ability for abstract thought we have developed comes a wonderment of "Why?"

This one question seems to drive almost everything about us. We have realised we exist and want to know what this existence means. As you have pointed out, this question is not confined to religious belief but purely philosophical belief as well.

Hi Leonardo,

LOL! One of the books that I loved is Alan Dean Foster's Glory Lane. It's a wild wacky romp with thought provoking undertones. Wereallsuckers, if you haven't read it you might want to. Aside from being an absolute delight to read it really does touch on all that is mentioned in this thread. I don't want to spoil the ending for those who haven't read it because it isn't fair to take away the experience from someone who wants to be surprised. But I remember that it really melted my brain and made more sense to me concerning god the universe and everything. (and who is this god person anyway?) than a lot of 'religious' books. Teehee.

Warm regards,
Mabon.


forgot to say my favorite question is, why?!

Here's what I thought was a great article on Rael's stance on Middle Eastern problems. (from raelianews.org) His real aim is to achieve world peace. His reasons are the odd part but anyone wanting to have peace is important in my books.

Messaiah RAEL warns Israel, asks for U. N. peacekeeping force in Palestinian territories
Messaiah Rael, leader of the worldwide movement he founded in 1973 that now includes over 65,000 people, today issued a renewed warning to Israel and officially called for a U.N. peace-keeping force in the Palestinian territories.

“The massacre between the sons of Abraham, between Israeli and Palestinian brothers, shows no sign of letup and has to end,” Rael declared. “The United Nations has a duty to stop this mad slaughter.”

He characterized Israeli treatment of Palestinians as “not human and not tolerable.” “How can descendants of the Shoa trap other human beings in jail towns that are nothing but concentration camps?” he asked. “Palestinians are being denied all human rights. They’re being treated as the Jews were treated by the Nazis and as blacks were treated during Apartheid.”

Rael said that without new leadership, Israel’s future is in grave peril.
“Only an Israeli Gandhi can save the state of Israel from destruction,” Rael declared, stepping up a warning mentioned in his book “Intelligent Design.” The destruction of Israel if its citizens don’t modify their behavior is part of the book’s stated message from the Elohim, or Creators. (For more about the Elohim, see www.rael.org.)



Rael has referenced Ghandi and drawn upon historical parallels in other messages to the Israeli people over the past several years, calling upon them to put an end to “Apartheid” and seek new leadership.

“Where is the Israeli Gandhi?” he asked in a September 9, 2006, message. “Only love and sharing can save the world.”
In the same message, the Raelian leader emphasized that responsibility for a humane solution must rest on those involved in fostering the crisis in the first place.

“The creation of the state of Israel is the cause of the Palestinian drama, and even if Israel has the right to exist, it has also the obligation to avoid a Palestinian genocide by providing help and saving a starving population,” he explained. “As an immediate neighbor and as a historic cause of the problem, Israel has the responsibility to act humanely. Instead of sending tanks, they should send trucks full of food and water, and connect the Palestinian electric and water network to the Israeli supplies.”

Leon Mellul, local leader for the IsRaelian movement said Rael’s May 13 plea to the United Nations and heightened warning to Israel were made because Israelis have remained deaf to calls of their creators asking them to stop the violence. “It’s time for international forces to stop the suffering of the people in Palestine,” he said.

According to Mellul, the Raelian position is that successive Israeli governments have contributed to precipitating the end of their country. He said more and more Israelis are reaching the same conclusion, and mentioned a recent study conducted by students at the University of Tel Aviv predicting the nation of Israel will cease to exist within the next 20 years if nothing is done.

What I do agree with here is that the world does need an israeli Gandhi. Not just one israeli one though but many throughout the world. It is time the masses looked within.

I couldn't agree more

Did you have any thoughts on the Cosmic Consciousness post?

I did. And, well to be honest what can they tell me about it that the anceint philosophies or religions havnt already said? It is good that they embrace it but one doesnt need to ever join a sect to know cosmic consciousness for the very reason that it is cosmic and therefore universal. But I appreciate the post nevertheless.

Thats right and that's my whole point of the topic, you don't have to join a cult, sect, religion, movement, whatever it's termed to appreciate and apply the ideas to your own life.

Finally got to this site, it wouldn't open for me when I first tried. In fact it's a great article and one I found offered me some new questions too. I'm not sure why you posted it but I'm glad you did.
Here is one part I particularly liked:
"As a scholar of religion, the Raelian religion fascinates me, as it challenges our traditional ideas of what constitutes a religion. Since there is no "god", Raelians are atheists, in the traditional sense of the word, yet they also clearly adopt a powerful and comprehensive world-view which excludes the possibility of other religions. So, does religion need God? Do we, as human beings, need God? Have the Raelians have somehow managed to find a way to answer life's existential questions and look optimistically towards the future without a the crutch of a possible "deus ex machina"?"

It is a humans need to look for answers. I don't think we are all looking for something to believe in for something to do and call it life. It is a natural thing to want to know, why is the sky blue? How is ice cream made? Where did we come from? Kids ask questions all the time, why? why? why? It's a natural thing to do, it has made us the intelligent species we are today. I expected a different reply from you Goddess, I think...

I was gonna say dear, this sounds like no conundrum to me??? So you adopt all of their beliefs that 'jive' you and not the alien part of it if you choose not to...? Tis YOU who makes your own choices about your own beliefs eh? After reading your post, I might be some Raelian too? I'm some Buddist too, some Pagan, some Christen, some of a bit of a bunch of it actually... including some physics religeon and some math religeon too...and some Darwin religeon too....

You got the whole topic!! That's it, we can be a little bit of everything. Many Christians aren't Creationists. We take pieces from lots of beliefs and adapt them to what suits us. I never said I was a full on Raelian but no body really got like you. Good one.