War...that's the key topic of this thread. What is really the motivation behind a war. Sometimes it isn't the direct motivation for a certain region to enter into war..it is done because there are two religions that wholly disagree with each other.


The big ones?

Islam
Christianity
Judaism


I wont list the Asian religions because...well....they are somehow compatible with each other.


The three listed find some combination to not be compatible. People may post here and say Islam is the problem, but you can't say that with your tongue still feeling as though it seethed a fair statement. Someone that is Islamic could say Christianity is the problem. Everyone knows about the Crusades....fight over a piece of land where some guy apparently did something important to their religion. That's a bunch of bull. More like a piece of land that can get you a lot of money through trade and what not.


Now, I'm not atheist..I dont like that word. I'm not agnostic, I'm...enlightened.




Thoughts? I could list a lot of wars that have occurred that have been recorded and probably 3/4th of them are motivated either directly or indirectly by religious controversy.

People must notice this? Jeesh...

reason for war is self-interest

IMO, it is not religion, it is peoples' understanding that limits.
like, we read the same book but we pay attention to different pages or what we learn from it would be different because of personal understanding and likes. even, if we reread the same book we might learn some other thing.
the main problem of trouble maker reliogious people is that they believe they know ---enough---they think they understood. yet, as long as we live, we can learn and be better.
when a person feels satisfied with his limited knowledge, then we can expect him to be a trouble amoung us.

when someone stops learning, he usually starts judging and trying to change others to make them like himself.
while doing it so, whoever loses the connection between intelligence and conscience would become cruel. intelligence without conscience can only think for himself without any empathy or compassion.
i rather have conscience than having intelligence but no conscience. why?
because intelligence could develope by having education. if a person isnot educated then he would be more ignorant than educated ones.
but conscience is not like that. it doesn't need to develope. it's the voice of heart. education wouldnot help it at all.
you have it or you don't. it is that simple.

so, people who wants war do not really listen to their conscience. they don't consider all of those children would be suffering over those war lovers' passion, which is generally related to money.


thank you for your time

Why war!? Maybe history reveals the answer to be rather simple, yet complex. It's simple because , in the human domain of acquisition and possession, one must take what they want. Ergo, securing oil interests, effectively commanding a region so as to allow corporate American interests exploit cheap labor and resources, is an effective impetus to go to war. Because in order to do those things, on someone else's land, you have to kill them and then insinuate yourself into the carnage, while interjecting western values into the clean up process, so as to show the conquered what primitive can cost them.

This is an interesting point of view, I think. Albert Einstein and Sigmund Freud Correspondence: "Why War?" Albert Einstein and Sigmund Freud. The letter which Einstein addressed to Freud, concerning the projected organization of intellectual leaders, was sent in 1931, or possibly 1932.

"WONDERFUL EVENTS THAT TESTIFY TO GOD'S DIVINE GLORY"


Yes we do.....sadly

BTW Welcome Sadonis to UM Forum.

Very interesting...I read up to and including where Einstein was proposing the idea of a World Tribunal to govern the affairs of Nations. The World Court and the UN come to mind....

Interesting read.

Monolithic thinking leads to war, imo. When we should all get along to take care of each other and the earth, instead war takes place. Each side in these wars says there is one god (theirs), there is one way to serve god (theirs), and rest of the world is going to hell (or some semblance).

Monotheist religions lead to strife. We should all get off our high horses and respect that all people will live based on their experience or lack of experience of divinity in their lives and stop proselytizing about one way (mine) or the hightway.

Peace,

RadicalGnostic

War is caused by several things, and rarely by religion these days. Normally war starts because of resources or power of some sort.

it's a human nature...just like "germans make better cars than us lets declare war on them!!!"..better world whitout war and creedy politician

The thirst for power and control. Greed.

It's human nature. I think wars are fought over resources, lust for power, and idealism (people trying to create a perfect world).

The leaders of the West lust for more power and the Islamic terrorists are trying to create a perfect world.

The issue is by no means that simple.

And yet the religious wars of the day were also fought for acquisition of exploitable resources and power. And today, in Iraq, it's promoted as a clash of western christian ideology, what with a commander in chief of the armed services saying god told him to invade Iraq, and those that oppose us do so in the name, often enough, of radical islam. And so, by inference, it is a clash of religious cultural ideologies.

And is religion ever far from any war, when there are clergy that bless the armament, ammunition and soldiers that fight it. As in Americas military dispatched from this one nation under god!? And what of other nations that war!? And their citizen pledges of allegiance to a deific construct!? Is any war then, not in some way related to the defense of the realm and the faith!? After all, victors tend to bring their cultural ideologies with them when they occupy their possession. It's why there are catholic Lakota, and Baptist Cherokee, in America today. It's why we read of the barbarism invoked by one's own family, when one has converted to christianity , renouncing islam, while living in Iran. It's why India is occupied and christians are oppressing Hindi and Hindi are striking back.
As long as there is religious loyalty in the heart and mind of humanity, every war brings with it the religion as part of whole of the society that seeks to command by force, the nations and resources, of other lands and people. Therefore, I think every war is a religious war, because people ask their god to give them strength in the fighting, often believing it gods will they fight in the first place.

Judaism is not one of the biggest. The Jews are a small number compared to the eastern religions.
On topic : It's human nature, yes. Definately human stupidity.

true but religion IS used to keep the masses on one side..eg bush.. christian.. majority of his people, christian, there for, if they are fighting someone non christian.. then there is no way in hell WE can be wrong.. RIGHT?

yes its human nature... human stupidity sure... but IMO human stupidity is the reason we still have religion anyway.

I think it is more in line with Spiritual nature or human nature to experience the everything in this life so one can make an informed decision about who theywish to be and How they wish to act.

There are Many who steal and end up in Jail or kill and end up in Jail, These things must be experienced by the individual to be apreciated and to be able as an experienced individual to know the difference between Good and Bad, everything being relative. Not all can read a book and say war is hell, but many a vetrans can tell you that it is and it is bad for everyone, including the individual who chose to take part in taking anothers life, now because he is experienced he is an expert , and has satisfied his spirits desire to know all about this part of Human exsistance.

There are many spirits incarnate right now who have warred in past lifes, they in this life are called peacenicks and Hipies, the reality is they already experienced this, and learned that it is not good.

Not all spirits are created at the same time, or learn their lessons at the same time.

After watching Bush, I can say I now know how not to run a country, I can even thank him, in a way for being thje bad guy, and showing millions what his brand of love and God creates, Death and debt, and Horror, now I do not have to experience it first hand, I see too well all those around me who This dude has affected for the worst. Reincarnation is real, and Brother jesus was here 120 times before his last life on the cross, you don't think he got that way in one life did ya?

Experience is knowledge .

Love Omnaka

Did you see the link I used in my post???




Mine also.

Zombie Jesus you hit it, brother. Religion should be banned!

Nothing like advocating realistic expectations! Banning religion would solve nothing, because in the history of the world, prohibition has spawned nothing but criminal exploitation of that what is prohibited. It's the nature of the beast. Tell the human ego it can not have something, and the human ego shall prove you wrong.

As an atheist I don't see what the problem is, there is no reason that I can see that these religions can't co-exist (with a certain degree of tolerance from each party) as long as there is a separation of church and state. I would say that this is generally the conflict causer, when church and state start to become one entity and other religions start to feel threatened by this, especially when laws start to be changed/bent for a religion, when in my opinion clearly the opposite should be, church should have to change to accommodate the laws of state, rather than the other way around.

Although, to ignore that conflict is part of human nature would be ignorant, one has to expect a certain degree of conflict between humans, as it is only human to desire power and what can be gained from war.