yes, i know. i cant prove it with physical evidence, but i can encourage you to explore a relationship with god, and you might decide you do too.

so, you just dont believe that your unique and special human experience was created by anything, that it just happened by chance?

Isn't it so much more beautiful that way?

no, its not.

Don't be starting all that "explore a relationship with god" mush with me. I'm perfectly happy as I am, and I don't need to do any exploring. As I said, if it's a choice between the Christian god and hell, I'll take hell. I want nothing to do with such a being... I have standards you know.



I'm a Deist.

According to one construct one would have to be thankful for first being born unworthy of life. They would then have to be thankful for their sinful nature, that keeps them always in deficit, while striving to overcome what's ingrained as the nature to sin, so as to please that what made the condition possible, after it decided to hold a grudge for eternity, after it's omniscience saw fulfilled the destiny of the first of our kind in that conditional paradise. So as to attain yet another promise of a paradise, if god decides to grace us with his presence, by letting us into his heaven, when the living as he made us, is over and omniscient omnipotent omnipresence saw us coming.

It would be a blessing, I think, if man created better gods to worship as and for themselves, because they would then not think it is their nature to be bad. Making the faithful hope of striving against that, the illusion. It's like asking a cat to pretend it's a parrot because cats are bad by nature and parrots are a grace to strive to become. And in the end of it's days, if that cat is blessed with the grace of the god that made it as a cat, while sending prophets to compel it to hold faith it may be a bird, it shall enjoy the afterlife rewards of catnip, tree's, no dogs and accessible low flying bird lunches, for eternity. And in that process, acknowledge that omniscient omnipresence might be appeased, if the cat simply has faith being a bird is the way to get to yet another conditional paradise, after pretending to be in need of the god that made it all possible, living the blessing of being an unworthy cat holding faith in the religion that praises birds.

you would choose hell? i sure wouldnt.

god is a diety you know.

I would because everyone would be there, heaven on the other hand would be a very empty place lol

I beg to differ, but to each his own.

Or like a friend of mine once said: "I want to go to Hell. That's where are the girls that put out are going. Why would I want to spend eternity with girls that just want to cuddle?"

Well, that's your choice... but I would choose whichever option places me completely away from the Christian god.

I know god is a deity... do you know what a Deist is?

im not thankful for my sinful nature.

i think you hold a grudge against god. nowhere in the bible does it say god has a grudge against us.

adam and eves purpose was to reproduce life onto the earth. they did that. god cant control what they did with their free will.

god didnt say "if you fail even one time its all over" you act like god wont give us forgiveness. but if your not sorry you sin, you cant ask forgiveness. you just have to try to do the right things as best you can, and through our relationship with god, you will find the strength to overcome.

speak for yourself. you go bounce along with the sheep into hell. i wish for you thought that you would give god a chance and at least try to understand him.



dude, just pick one special hot one and just cuddle with her. thats what i did.

i assume someone who believes in a diety. im not that familiar with it though.

you are abnormally angry with the christian god. to simply feel that he doesnt exist is one thing, but you are angry.

You disappoint me.
Not that there was any inclination to impress me whatsoever...

Anyway, the bible is a bit of an outdated "manual to god." I wish you luck reaching true peace in this modern world with it.
I probably won't reply in this thread any further, as your mind seems made up for the most part.

i didnt say i dont believe people go to hell, i just dont believe what the popular opinion of it is.

I'm not angry. How can I be angry with a being which doesn't exist for me? That would be like me being angry with the tooth fairy.

There's an explanation of what a Deist believes in my blog, if you're interested... it saves confusion.

I did try yet i could not grasp why such a supreme LOVING being would allow his own child to suffer on the cross just so we could have sin's which are just normal human nature and instincts forgiven. God knows what's going to happen right from the start so why let his own child suffer. I myself am content and happy with my life and if like you say Hell is just the absence of God then I am fine because I have no need for him/her/it now so Im ok.





Edit to add: Smiley face to show im not ranting or anything at you lol.

not all sins are human nature.

Might I be so bold as to ask for an example of a sin that is not in human nature to commit?

edit: I suppose I lied about probably not replying to the thread. I'm a little hyper and generous with my 2cents this morning...
Question stands though.

Atheist here! No such thing as god.

You opened a discussion asking readers , if they so choose, to share their point of view. I did that. Your opinion, your judgment in defense of your own, means you can ask, but you can not read objectively, the opinions you ask to be shared.

The first fall of man was accepting they are born with a sinful nature, imparted unto them by their maker, for what omniscience condemns of that, in them. It is incumbent therefore, on you, to live up to what you believe your god made you to be, as you worship it for creating the reality you accept on faith.

Exactly. That's why the response to my posts has been kingkarma's assertion that I am indeed going to his god's hell... and he knows it.

If it was proven that God exists.....People would stop sinning because they would be too scared of Going to hell

Always the humor in that line of thinking, no!? One doesn't believe in their god. So consequently, one's soul is obligated to burn in the hell of that gods making. When really that hell was made for them, that are denied gods grace after life, so that they instead enter heaven. But they do not do so, by their good works. So spreading that good news, that says one knows others are bound for hell, is to no avail because god says it is not by deeds one enters paradise, but by gods grace. And even the key to access, faith in jesus, is not meant for everyone damned to understand and better assure their destiny. Because jesus said he wasn't speaking to everyone, for their understanding, but only a select few that would otherwise hear what are parables making no sense at all.

So, the good news is, members only!

with facts that a god or gods existed? no it would not change or influence the decisions in my life.

more to the point, even with facts that something created the universe (or the universe was conscious, or what have you) I would not refer to "it" as "god".

maybe its just me but its as plain as the nose on my face that there is no such thing as a deity,even if there was it wouldn't change anything nor should it ..if this hypothetical deity isn't comfortable with me being who i decide, oh well...

It is as plain as the nose on your face to you....it is as plain as the nose on someone else's face that the reverse is true...regardless (irregardless is not a word) My life is lived as I choose to live it and I would choose to live it the same, because the guiding principles of my life are Universal..not Religious.

It is interesting to me that life exists. In a tiny spot in the infinite universe...life exists...that just always fascinates me.

IF I knew for a fact that God existed, it would have very little influence on decisions I make. I'm sure there would be some influence, but no changes readily come to mind. I don't believe, however, that knowing for a fact that God exists would negate free will. There are many who would continue to live as they do, in spite of knowing that God exists.

Well you know, it's easy enough to do a Yahoo images search for the Hubble space telescope captures. I do it all the time, even have a site that features wallpapers of some of the most astonishing visuals, millions of light years away. And the way I see it, literally when I look at those images which pale in comparison to what it's really like in that orbit, I figure, if that what made all of that beauty is obsessed and angered with how I have sex, I feel sorry for it.

It has my pity and it is deserving of that because in creating the incredible wonder of super nova, the mystery of black holes, (some of which are now said to be terrestrial), and the awesome comet galaxies, it has taken the time to make this bi-sexual human being and then whispers the inspiration into the head of male scribes, that it declares afterward, that I am an abomination. After it took the time to bring me to life, like it did the glorious visual of SN 1987A, it admits it can create abominations and that which is against nature.

And if it can declare me an abomination, in this tiny human form, because I make love to women, then it has proven there is no such thing as god. Instead, what it proves is there is such a thing as hateful, close minded bigots that excuse the creator of all that beauty, as one that thinks something it made is a sin because something called god is said to have inspired something called inspired man, to hate fellow human beings, and declare it holy. I think bigots are an abomination. I think excusing christian tenets as what compells the hate, is an abomination to good christians that aren't so inclined. And I think, in the end of days, those that hate people for falling in love contrary to a way some approve, will be greatly surprised when they realize the meaning of their life was to live it. Not to obsess and hate others for doing the same.

Amen!

Concise, beautiful, and to the point.

If actual real life facts occurred, then I would dare say, a lot would look into these real facts..but see you are living in a dream world, when it comes to spirituality, one can only have what's known as a personal experience...something that could never be proved............that's the whole idea of it all


Something tells me you cant get over how others dont think like you do

How can she be angry with the christian God, if she dont believe in the christian God?............that dont make sense

To be angry at something, that something MUST have to exist..in order to be angry at it

okay, to answer this i think you should consider naturalistic animal behavior, and if we were animals with no moral implications, how would we responde in a particular situation.

murder for survival, in the animal world, is natural. animals dont kill for profit. we do, along with a host of other reasons. animals dont rape, they earn the right to mate. we rape.

now, lusting after another woman if your married i would consider more of a natural sin, deserving a lesser degree of punishment. purposely hurting other people i would consider in a whole other catagory than a sin that would hurt only you.

maybe your right in a sense i suppose, that in general humans get urges that they cant explain, but not everyone gets the same urges. hell, weve all wanted to sock someone in the face.

thats absolutely not true. since i sincerely believe something, I consider it true. i never said it was proven in a court of law. if my opinions seem to come across in a harsh manner, it wasnt my intention.

i dont know if youll go to hell, but you have to understand that what i believe and have experienced in my life i consider factual. in the physical and material world, i know its not. you act like i WANT you to go to hell please dont think that.

thats so not fair....

i didnt mean she is angry personally, but you must admit her words are pretty harsh

i have NEVER gotten angry for someone believeing differently than me, so please dont stereotype me into the "believe me or you will go to hell and die you sinner" christian stereotype.

my problem is that people are so ready to say that a proved existence of god wouldnt alter their lives whatsoever, and i just dont believe it. im sorry if it doesnt fly with some people. when people dont understand something, they try to learn, and thats all im doing. maybe the concept of a god is just so absurd to some people that they cant seriously consider this.

I answered a hypothetical question and was responded to with a statement of fact.

Let me remind you...


That's what I'll get apparently... a one way ticket to hell. A statement of fact in response to a hypothetical question. A prediction of the outcome of my existence in response to a question which involved me conjuring up a god I do not believe in. In fact, as we're now in the realms of real life rather than hypothetical god conjuring, and it appears that stating our beliefs as matters of fact is acceptable, forget "I do not believe in" and replace it with "I know does not exist".



You told me it was what I would get, and now you're telling me you don't know it is. How am I expected to understand that? You've said you consider your beliefs to be factual, but you know they're not. Before I understand that you'll have to explain it to me.

I didn't say you wanted me to go to hell... you simply told me I would end up there.



How are they harsh? If I said Hitler was a murderer, would you tell me my words are harsh? Well, didn't the Christian god murder the first born of Egypt, amongst many others? Didn't he command men to kill children for disobeying their parents? And I'm harsh?

How can you hope to understand something when you've already decided that you don't believe it in the first place?

It's not that the concept of a god is just so absurd... I'm a Deist, so I have no difficulty entertaining the idea that something I cannot see/hear exists. It's the notion that such a being would be so petty, so angry, so darned immature and compulsive, and so insecure. That's what I have trouble with... and that is why proof of this god's existence would do nothing to urge me to change my ways and follow him.

according to my belief, you said you would rather go to hell than to be with god. so if thats what you want, according to my belief, thats what youll get. i dont know if youll go to hell because you continue to life your life.
you are fairly cynical of a view point that you just dont understand, and you cant argue with that. you have the right to do so, i didnt say you didnt.

those are the words of men, by the way.

im sorry, but you cant judge gods disposition without having a personal proof of those actions. i suppose god can be all those things, but those things are neccessary for the whole spectrum of the human experience to be what it is.

Not one iota, I already live my religion and would remain just a moral and straight-living as I was before the proof that the Creator existed came to me. Now my question is, "If you found proof that Christianity was a made-up religion responsibile for grave acts of cruelty and evil over the millenia of it's existence, would it influence the decisions you make in your life?"

please, the christian way of life has nothing in common with those "grave acts of cruelty and evil", so dont lump us all together.

thats not a provable theory though, not with physical evidence. but if it was possible, yes i can say it probably would somehwat.

So, the only uncertainty from your perspective is the fact that I am not going to die right this moment... I have room for improvement and a change of faith. How very gratious of you, to allow for the possibility that I might not always be damned.



Excuse me? Can't I argue with that? Really? Says who?

What do you know about what I do and don't understand? Not so long ago you had no idea what a Deist is, and you most certainly don't know me, so how do you reach the conclusion that I don't understand?



I beg your pardon? I can't judge the Christian god - for whom there is no proof of existence - without having proof that he murdered the first born of Egypt and countless others? How does that make sense?

And why are those things necessary?

Yet you believe in the god that punishes for the sins of the fathers...those ancient (and much more modern) Christians were the fathers of the Christianity of today, so don't try to weasel out of your heritage...and you still didn't answer the question posed to you...would you let it influence your decisions - well would you?

im sorry that you dont like what i believe. this isnt a personal attack on you.

you have yet to acknowledge one virtuous aspect of christianity. the purpose of christianity is to make life on earth better. not that everyone has to believe what we believe, but what people are doing to themselves on the planet right now is so sad. i guess anything would be better than this.

now, if you dont even believe in god, how can you make a decision about his personality?

i didnt say you didnt understand the technicallities of christianity, but you dont understand my personal relationship with god. and thats what makes it real for me.

sorry , but thats not my heritage. alot of people have done alot of things in history, none of which has to do with me. i believe that the christian lifestyle is the best for me. thats what it is.

and yes, i did acknowledge, although impossible to prove, if it was it could have an effect on me and my decision making.

If you are a member of any Christian sect that descended from the Church of the Roman Empire, it is your heritage and according to your god, you are to be punished for the sins of your fathers.

This is as honest as I can possibly be. If I KNEW without a doubt that God existed and that all the rules are true as laid down in the Bible and had never been changed by man, then, yes, absolutely it would definitely affect the way I live and the choices I make.

But, I gotta tell ya, if God is the way he is exactly as stated in the Bible, then I would still be f@%&ed. I would only be worshipping out of the fear of eternal damnation. I could not in my heart of hearts worship lovingly because of the horrible things He demanded be done in His name. And, since He knows all, then He'd see right through me.

lol the acts of those dead men have no bearing on my life. i wont feel guilty for something i had nothing to do with.

the point of the bible isnt toscare you into doing what it says. there is actually very little said of hell in the bible. god never commanded evil things be done to people. not the christian god anyways. people tend to do things and say "god made me do it", but thats as far as it goes.