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user posted image rIn his latest book, Pleasurable Kingdom, ethologist Jonathan Balcombe tells a nice story of two fish crows he observed on Assateague Island off the coast of Virginia. "They first engaged in flight play then, over the next 10 minutes, one bird (always the same one) repeatedly sidled up to the other, leaned over and pointed his/her beak down, exposing the nape. The other bird responded by gently sweeping his/her bill through the feathers as though searching for parasites. There was every indication that they were mates or good buddies, and that their contact was as pleasurable for both giver and receiver as a massage or caress between two humans." All the signs are that many animals can experience pleasure. There is also ample evidence they feel joy, especially during play. I once saw a young elk in Rocky Mountain National Park run across a snowfield, jump in the air and twist his body while in flight, stop, catch his breath, and do it again and again. Buffalo have been seen playfully running onto and sliding across ice, excitedly bellowing as they do so. While watching elephants in the Samburu National Reserve in northern Kenya, I noticed one that walked very slowly.

Elephant expert Iain Douglas-Hamilton told me that this female elephant, Babyl, had been crippled for years, but the other members of the herd never left her behind. They would walk a while and then stop and look around to see where she was. Depending on how she was doing, they would either wait or go on. Sometimes the matriarch even fed Babyl. The elephants had nothing to gain by helping her as she could do little for them. The only obvious conclusion was that their kindness and care was unconditional. Out of friendship and empathy they adjusted their behaviour to allow Babyl to remain with the group.

linked-image View: Full Article | Source: New Scientist
Star_girl
I think any pet owner would tell you that creatures have emotions....
Siara
QUOTE(Star_girl @ May 31 2007, 11:14 AM) [snapback]1702196[/snapback]
I think any pet owner would tell you that creatures have emotions....


Well put, Star_girl. Anyone who spends any time with dogs, for example, knows that they experience the full range of emotion. Love, fear, jealousy, boredom, curiosity. etc. I think all mammals probably experience emotion.

I'm not so sure about insects and fish. I think they're kind of running on a hard wired computer-type program.
Darkwind
I don't know why scientist debate this. Of course animals have emotions. My cat shows emotions all the time. She loves to climb up on my chest and put her paws around my neck and purr and cuddle. If that's not love I don't know what is.
Pandora2173
QUOTE(Star_girl @ May 31 2007, 07:14 AM) [snapback]1702196[/snapback]
I think any pet owner would tell you that creatures have emotions....


I was literally about to post the exact comment. I'm not really sure why it would be questioned.
RedFFWolf
There never seems to be enough proof for a scientist anymore.
Sounds to me like they need to have a pet for themselves. wink2.gif
HowdyDoo
QUOTE(RedFFWolf @ May 31 2007, 01:55 PM) [snapback]1702359[/snapback]
There never seems to be enough proof for a scientist anymore.
Sounds to me like they need to have a pet for themselves. wink2.gif

Definitely! Not only do they have emotions, but I believe they have individual personalities, also. My two cats are very different from each other. One is laid back and thinks she's a human, and the other is high-strung, playful, and fully feline in her behavior--except for the time she "pants" at my husband after he does it to her. They have a very strange relationship. My laid-back cat prefers me, while my playful cat likes men. I think anyone with animals can describe the differences in their character from other animals.
Wolfen69
I would go as far to say that all critters have some sort of emotions. To what extent who knows. Cats and dogs are a given, anyone can see that.

Fish, well I have an Oscar that every time I enter the room he swims to the top of the tank and wags his tail. I use to think that he was just hungry then I found that he likes to be petted (top of his dorsal fin rubbed). Anyone else tries it they will get there finger bit. If I do not pet him for a few days he will mope around the bottom of the tank and go after the other fish.

Ants even, I had an ant farm for a while, my two 6 yr olds found that if you shake the farm the run all over the place. I started to notice when I sat down at my desk they were fine but when the kids came close they would run and hide in the tunnels.

One can argue that this is just cause and affect but what is emotion any way. You take some one that has been abused are they not shy of accepting affection from one that is true. Or take someone that has never been lied to are they not overly trusting? I think they need to define what emotion is before they say what or what does not have it.
Lt_Ripley
if my cat Alley is in a good loving mood and I call her 'prrrreeettttyyyy girl ' she'll plop down on the ground , stretch and roll and stare up at me .

if I do this when she's peeved , she couldn't be bothered with anything except a dirty look.

when she's hungry or wants you to pay attention , she'll pat you repeatedly with her paws.

when I call for her she comes. and when I'm in another part of the house ( she'll be in the basement TV room where I usually am) she'll cry out a certain call and I'll answer " I'm up here" next thing you know there she is. when I go back down she's on my heels.

we even play hide and go seek. ( less now that she's older) I'll hide and she comes looking , but she's sneaky. I won't know she's near and I'll take a peek and she'll leap out at me and scare me half to death. always makes me laugh.

when I came home after a pneumothorx from some broken ribs and got pneumonia , during it's really bad spell she didn't leave my side except to use the litter box and eat.

she really is my best friend. never judges me , always forgives me , and loves me 100%.

of course they have feelings.

ps - since our dog passed away ( really my grans dog) Alley has been spending a majority of time with my gran. even sleeping with her which is something in the previous 8 years she has never done. Alley knows Gran needs the company.
Lt_Ripley
QUOTE(Siara @ May 31 2007, 08:05 AM) [snapback]1702227[/snapback]
Well put, Star_girl. Anyone who spends any time with dogs, for example, knows that they experience the full range of emotion. Love, fear, jealousy, boredom, curiosity. etc. I think all mammals probably experience emotion.

I'm not so sure about insects and fish. I think they're kind of running on a hard wired computer-type program.


I had fish for a while. I'd like think they loved me since they always came to the glass when I came near . but with their lack of memory they couldn't remember it 2 seconds later. Maybe I was always someone new to them ! grin2.gif

Alley loved them !
Moredhel84
Got a Nanday Conure, and my god does he get moody.

linked-image
STIX
I believe all life experiences some level of feeling or emotion... it is a natural part of existance. Even single celled organisms exist in a community, they do not live spereate independant existances.

This is so typical of a materialistic and mechanisitc viewpoint of the unvierse and it is completley bogus. According to mechanistic views all things which occur forward in time should occur backwards, mathematically speaking of course because mechanist views are based on mathematics. Meaning that I can affect the past by causing something to occur in the present which completley violates our everyday experience of reality. Thus, the universe is not a machine, it is an organism and nothing within the universe is mechanistic, it is organismic. This is what the animals are showing us, they are showing us that they are not machines, they are organisms that have a deeper experience of reality in the same way that we do. There is probably a fundamental experience of all organisms that contain DNA or a nucleous, they are not just little mindless machines.

This is why we need to respect our environment and the creatures that we share it with.
ShaunZero
Scientists debating wether animals have emotions or not? Wow... I guess they really lack common sense, lol.
Anukis
Absolutely animals have emotions! once i was really upset and i was crying and my dog just sat there with me, cuddling to me and looking at me like she's trying to comfort me, i was really relieved by her presence.
When i was younger i was alone at home and the electricity just went off and i was in total darkness, i felt uneasy beinga lone at home and in total darkness, and my cat just came on my lap and didnt move from there till my mom arrived home an hour later. I think animals just can feel their owner's needs, feelings and thoughts, they're the best friend you can have happy.gif
Darkwind
QUOTE(STIX @ May 31 2007, 08:58 PM) [snapback]1703059[/snapback]
I believe all life experiences some level of feeling or emotion... it is a natural part of existance. Even single celled organisms exist in a community, they do not live spereate independant existances.

This is so typical of a materialistic and mechanisitc viewpoint of the unvierse and it is completley bogus. According to mechanistic views all things which occur forward in time should occur backwards, mathematically speaking of course because mechanist views are based on mathematics. Meaning that I can affect the past by causing something to occur in the present which completley violates our everyday experience of reality. Thus, the universe is not a machine, it is an organism and nothing within the universe is mechanistic, it is organismic. This is what the animals are showing us, they are showing us that they are not machines, they are organisms that have a deeper experience of reality in the same way that we do. There is probably a fundamental experience of all organisms that contain DNA or a nucleous, they are not just little mindless machines.

This is why we need to respect our environment and the creatures that we share it with.


Bravo STIX, I agree clap.gif .
rosenrot
I firmly agree with this article and everyone here. Anyone who owns pets knows they experience different moods and emotions. I have grown up with animals all my life. My dogs will get jealous of eachother when we pet one and not the other. My cats know when I am sad because they will inherently find a way into my lap and put a little pink nose in my face. And they all get excited when we come home from a trip. Even my betta fish experiences emotions. He get bored when no one pays attention to him; he will play in the current of the water return.

The scientists who "discovered" this were obviously not veternarians. Vets know this kinda stuff, too.
chiksta
here here. !
exeller
I don't think they do. If I recall corectly there is an animal that eats its own children........and now tell me what animal with emotions eats it's own baby ????????
triplehelix2000
my hampster ate all its babies. I think plants have emotions too.
SureFire
QUOTE(exe11er @ Jun 1 2007, 11:21 AM) [snapback]1703489[/snapback]
I don't think they do. If I recall corectly there is an animal that eats its own children........and now tell me what animal with emotions eats it's own baby ????????


Good point thumbsup.gif

But I wonder if all animals are as stupid as Hamsters? I've never seen a dog eat their puppies? Or a Cow chow down on their calves... Thought provoking unsure.gif
positron
QUOTE(SaRuMaN @ May 31 2007, 04:41 AM) [snapback]1702097[/snapback]
linked-imageIn his latest book, Pleasurable Kingdom, ethologist Jonathan Balcombe tells a nice story of two fish crows he observed on Assateague Island off the coast of Virginia. "They first engaged in flight play then, over the next 10 minutes, one bird (always the same one) repeatedly sidled up to the other, leaned over and pointed his/her beak down, exposing the nape. The other bird responded by gently sweeping his/her bill through the feathers as though searching for parasites. There was every indication that they were mates or good buddies, and that their contact was as pleasurable for both giver and receiver as a massage or caress between two humans." All the signs are that many animals can experience pleasure. There is also ample evidence they feel joy, especially during play. I once saw a young elk in Rocky Mountain National Park run across a snowfield, jump in the air and twist his body while in flight, stop, catch his breath, and do it again and again. Buffalo have been seen playfully running onto and sliding across ice, excitedly bellowing as they do so. While watching elephants in the Samburu National Reserve in northern Kenya, I noticed one that walked very slowly.

Elephant expert Iain Douglas-Hamilton told me that this female elephant, Babyl, had been crippled for years, but the other members of the herd never left her behind. They would walk a while and then stop and look around to see where she was. Depending on how she was doing, they would either wait or go on. Sometimes the matriarch even fed Babyl. The elephants had nothing to gain by helping her as she could do little for them. The only obvious conclusion was that their kindness and care was unconditional. Out of friendship and empathy they adjusted their behaviour to allow Babyl to remain with the group.

linked-image View: Full Article | Source: New Scientist


My cats saved me from being shattered with glass in my face,they went into a back room during a typhoon,Meowed until I went with them.They fight but they sleep together. ( There is no blood involved ,they verbally meow at each other.) One is trying to get into my lap now!
positron
QUOTE(rosenrot @ May 31 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]1703368[/snapback]
I firmly agree with this article and everyone here. Anyone who owns pets knows they experience different moods and emotions. I have grown up with animals all my life. My dogs will get jealous of eachother when we pet one and not the other. My cats know when I am sad because they will inherently find a way into my lap and put a little pink nose in my face. And they all get excited when we come home from a trip. Even my betta fish experiences emotions. He get bored when no one pays attention to him; he will play in the current of the water return.

The scientists who "discovered" this were obviously not veternarians. Vets know this kinda stuff, too.


I have experienced all of the above.3 dogs,2 cats and know exactly of which you are saying. End of storey.
exeller
QUOTE(SureFire @ Jun 1 2007, 03:42 AM) [snapback]1703586[/snapback]
Good point thumbsup.gif

But I wonder if all animals are as stupid as Hamsters? I've never seen a dog eat their puppies? Or a Cow chow down on their calves... Thought provoking unsure.gif


LOL but then again, when you think about how pitbulls attack and tear up anyone from small children to adults......
asc.rudeboy
QUOTE(exe11er @ May 31 2007, 08:21 PM) [snapback]1703489[/snapback]
I don't think they do. If I recall corectly there is an animal that eats its own children........and now tell me what animal with emotions eats it's own baby ????????



no that dosent mean they dont have feelings,most animals that eat their young do it for a number of reasons the baby has birth defects or the moma was to young to have babies...and humans kill their young to if we didnt we would never find a baby in the dumpster..


animals have feelings anyone that spends time with them knows that,,my old dog buddha would get excited as can be if i said ,,,wanna go see grandma,,he loved my mom and would hop around and run to the door waggin his nub of a tail the entire time..

our little french bulldog hooligan has a personality ,,she picks on me when she gets bored she reminded me of me picking on my little brother,,,when my fiance would look she would stop but when she turned around that dog would sit on my head jump on and off my back sit infront of my face so i couldnt see the tv,,,and the entire time she had a smile on her face,,sometimes i hate that dog and she knows it...but she loves to give me a hard time when shes in the picking mood....but she can also be real lovable and when she sees us hugging and laying together she get jealouse and wants to be right in the middle of everything..
exeller
LOL yeah maybe they do have feelings....but I wouldn't say human emotion and animal emotion are quite the same.
SureFire
True, but are those *Angry* Pitbulls a product of their raise or are they just acting out? disgust.gif

I'd think that if you take two baby Pitbulls and put one with a caring family and the other with some drug dealer, those two pups would come out drastically different, hence being products of their raise.

I'm still curious what about those dogs that are brought up in a nice caring family, in which nothing negative or harmful happens to the animal (other than a ear or tail pulled here and there) causes them to turn on their masters? Hmmmm ohmy.gif

I wonder if this is a sign of emotion, such as a teenager rebels at a certain age, do dogs mature and bark/bite?

Ehhh I'm gonna start rambling... no.gif
Darkwind
QUOTE(asc.rudeboy @ Jun 1 2007, 05:19 AM) [snapback]1703654[/snapback]
our little french bulldog hooligan has a personality ,,she picks on me when she gets bored she reminded me of me picking on my little brother,,,when my fiance would look she would stop but when she turned around that dog would sit on my head jump on and off my back sit infront of my face so i couldnt see the tv,,,and the entire time she had a smile on her face,,sometimes i hate that dog and she knows it...but she loves to give me a hard time when shes in the picking mood....but she can also be real lovable and when she sees us hugging and laying together she get jealouse and wants to be right in the middle of everything..


I hate to tell you this but the dog is trying to get you to smell her butt, it is a part of mating behavior. She stops when your fiancé looks because she sees her as the alpha female. While animals have emotion doesn't mean they don't have instinct too.
I think the reason pitbulls turn on their owners is pack mentality. The owner is seen as the alpha pack member. If the dog has an alpha personality he well challenge the own for leader ship of the pack. Dogs and cats have their own culture so to speak and we sometimes forget they are dogs and cats not little people.
Oh it is raining I better let the cat in or she will be mad.
Daluni
Human emotion takes place at the limbic system. All mammals have a limbic system as part of their brain too. Ergo: mammals experiencing emotions is highly probable.
HowdyDoo
I have been unable to clean my self-cleaning oven for years because my cat, Crystal, goes nuts. When she smells that distinctive burning smell, she meows like mad and won't leave me alone.

This is a cat that hardly ever makes a sound (unless we are giving her a bath). I think that either she hates the smell, or she thinks the house is burning and is trying to warn us. Either way, I sleep a little easier knowing we have another fire alarm in the house.
Ebonykrow
I'm not going to subscribe to read the rest of the article, but I think it's a no brainer. :/ Why should humans be the only creatures out there that have emotions? I was reading an article a while back about cats (being a major cat enthusiast), and found that the part of the brain that produces emotion in both the cat and human were identical.

I agree 100% with HowdyDoo.
QUOTE
Not only do they have emotions, but I believe they have individual personalities, also. My two cats are very different from each other.


laugh.gif I might be biased, but I think that cats are more 'human' than we think... Last night I was drawing, up about midnight, and my cat Half doesn't go to bed without me. She waits for me, and when she came up and poked my leg with her nose I could tell she was getting impaitent. xD I asked if she was ready to go to bed, and I swear, she nodded. Not once or twice, but it was a quick, and eager childish nod. I turned off the light, she stretched on her post, and I fixed the bed. Just as I layed down she curled up in my legs and was fast asleep. grin2.gif It may be a learned behavior, but I recently noticed that not only do my own cats respond to a finger wiggle as a 'come here' signal, but my friend's cat does as well. He's stubborn and very childish, but I told her to wiggle her finger, just a simple as saying, "Come here." And he stopped his bathing and came to her, crawled up in her lap, and purred.

Half isn't as laid back and playful as my other cat Crookshanks; who enjoys playing fetch and being swept about by the bristle broom. xDD They're definitely complete opposites. Half was the best of friends with a cat I had before Crookshanks. The couldn't be spotted without the other. :/ But then Berry died, and Half spiraled into the deepest depression I swear I've ever seen someone go into. She always seemed so tired, and refused to sleep with me in my bed. She stayed by herself a lot, and didn't enjoy playing or talking. She was just very quiet and mellow. I decided to get another cat, which of course she wouldn't like right away. But I think if I took Crookshanks away, she would be suicidal. XD
asc.rudeboy
QUOTE(Darkwind @ Jun 1 2007, 05:09 AM) [snapback]1703953[/snapback]
I hate to tell you this but the dog is trying to get you to smell her butt, it is a part of mating behavior. She stops when your fiancé looks because she sees her as the alpha female. While animals have emotion doesn't mean they don't have instinct too.
I think the reason pitbulls turn on their owners is pack mentality. The owner is seen as the alpha pack member. If the dog has an alpha personality he well challenge the own for leader ship of the pack. Dogs and cats have their own culture so to speak and we sometimes forget they are dogs and cats not little people.
Oh it is raining I better let the cat in or she will be mad.


haha no she wasnt trying to get me to smell her but,im the only one the dog really listens to im the alpha in the house,,she was trying to pick a fight she sat on my head only after i put my hands under my chest so she couldnt grab at them any more,,,and started ignoring her..


my rottweiler went threw depression when my little girl moved out of the house and to her moms,...he would go to her room and just wimper and he wouldnt eat,,and after a few days he started pooping on her toys and her bed he was just real depressed lost a lot of weight and wasnt himself for a long time untill she started coming back on a regular schedual,,,,he was like a tennager not taking his parents divorce well..
exeller
QUOTE(SureFire @ Jun 1 2007, 09:04 AM) [snapback]1703774[/snapback]
True, but are those *Angry* Pitbulls a product of their raise or are they just acting out? disgust.gif

I'd think that if you take two baby Pitbulls and put one with a caring family and the other with some drug dealer, those two pups would come out drastically different, hence being products of their raise.

I'm still curious what about those dogs that are brought up in a nice caring family, in which nothing negative or harmful happens to the animal (other than a ear or tail pulled here and there) causes them to turn on their masters? Hmmmm ohmy.gif

I wonder if this is a sign of emotion, such as a teenager rebels at a certain age, do dogs mature and bark/bite?

Ehhh I'm gonna start rambling... no.gif


I'm not sure if you realize this but the points you brought up don't really suggest that animals have emotions. They only suggest that animals behave the way they were raised to behave.
Anyway, after some consideration I have concluded that that some animals do feel emotion, but not emotion on the same level as humans feel. Sound good to you?
Hooligan
When I was living with my Dad, We had two dogs, My dog Bojangles and My Moms dog Sayer. Well one day they both got out of the house and Bojangles was hit by a car and died.
Well the next week or so after that I was really upset and would cry all the time, well Sayer would lay down with me when I started to cry and lick my hands and whatnot. And Usually Sayer and I didn't get along, But I think he Missed Bojangles and knew that I missed him too.
And with our new dog (ASC.rudeboy and I) Her name is Hooligan. She definately has so many different types of emotions, More like a child than anything else. When our little girl is watching Tv in her room, Hooligan goes and checks on her occasionally to make sure she's alright. One night, I had put a gate up so Hooligan couldn't get down the hall. (She likes to steal things and destroy them) well She flipped out and started crying. So I opened the gate and she jet into the backroom, Jumped on our little girls bed and then went back in the living room and layed down on the chair.
war_machine
Does this also include mice, rats and hamsters as having emotions?

By the way, what is the purpose of mice? and why do they have so many offspring?
Ebonykrow
People act the same way. Put one in a caring family setting, and they'll grow up normal. Take a baby away from it's parents and put it in an unfamiliar environment and it will react differently. Take for example, feral children. The types of emotion you feel, and your personality, are results of how you were raised and grew up. Say you were abused and mistreated, and you'll be less trusting and outgoing. If you were taken care of and told to do your best in life, you'll be more easy-going and good natured.


QUOTE
By the way, what is the purpose of mice? and why do they have so many offspring?


What is the purpose of a human? And why do they feel the need to have so many kids. ._. Like those crazies that have over a dozen. I don't get it.
asc.rudeboy
i had a pet ratt for a wile and he was cool,you could tell if he liked a person because he would chill on there shoulder or be real calm,,around people he didnt really know he was real fidgity and wouldnt sit still,,,he would give mouse kisses but i never felt he showed the same emotions as say a dog or even a monkey..


and yes animals do go threw a stage as they get older male dogs will try to show their dominence whe they come into adult hood and in old age they become crabby and might be quick to snip or bite someone that aggorvates them..
NightWyvern
of course they do,my cat for example,will put his paw on me at night to make sure im there,always is by my side.He cries when a door is shut and im on the other side,he is never too far away,even as i write this,he is right next to me.even jumps on us and gives us hugs,lol
fylgja
QUOTE(exe11er @ May 31 2007, 10:21 PM) [snapback]1703489[/snapback]
I don't think they do. If I recall corectly there is an animal that eats its own children........and now tell me what animal with emotions eats it's own baby ????????


Some humans have abortions or kill their babies after they are born and they allegedly have emotions too.
Animals in captivity do it, but not in the wild. This is because cramped, over-crowded conditions force them to reduce the population. Instincts take over when it is survival. One is sacraficed to insure the survival of the many.
exeller
Thanks but you may want to read the rest of what we wrote.
Miss Anita Cigarette.
gorillas have been observed to actually have "funerals" when another gorilla dies.
they mourn, they weep, they display gloomy behavior.
hence, they feel emotion.

a mother octopus cares for it's eggs with loving care.
this instinct could be contributed as emotion for its offspring.
the male horsefish nurtures its children with emotion, again through instinct.
a bird fights for its young from emotion & instinct.

insects, however, i'm not sure about.

so, to conclude my hypothesis, emotions are instinctual, be it chemicals released by the brain or taught through experience.
Dewlanna
I think animals definately can feel emotions. it may not be the same range as our emotions, but definately, yes. I've experienced it with my pony and my cats..
Although, I think it is important to differentiate between Emotions and Behaviour. I think behaviour is taught during the life, but emotions are always there.
F. ex I'm sure pitbulls and other "fighting dogs" have emotions too, but they are affected by their trained behaviour.

There is a lot we could learn from animals, if only we were'nt so berluddy narrowminded.
HowdyDoo
QUOTE(war_machine @ Jun 1 2007, 11:16 PM) [snapback]1704846[/snapback]
By the way, what is the purpose of mice? and why do they have so many offspring?


They are tasty treats for snakes, cats, hawks, etc. Since they are small, we need more to fill the tummies of cats, snakes, hawks, etc.
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