I promise, this is not on the wrong forum.

Your favorite Wikipedia defines "internet Forum":



A forum is a form of debate:



Please note that a "debate" has an "outcome". On this website, all I see is just bickering. Neither the "Mods", nor anyone else, decides if anyone "won". I expect better of you guys, and from myself, too. I would like to see you guys post at least one example where you actually changed your mind about something. Just one thing. Please don't say, for example,

"I am still a Christian, thank you."

OR

"I still think all religions suck."


Get the idea? I want to see changes. Please do not criticize other's "revelations". Don't ruin this thread with bickering, please!

I will go first, not out of ego, but because this was my idea.

My change:

I used to believe 100% that Jesus of Nazareth was not a real historical person. From being on this forum, I am now pretty much convinced that he was "Yeshua ben Pantera", who lived about 100 years earlier than the n.t. character. He probably was the "master", spoken of in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
There is also pretty good evidence that the n.t. writers added quite a few details from other historical people, and of course, several pagan Gods. If I had not been on this forum, I might never have learned this.

Ok, what did I learn? I've found the history discussions fascinating and have picked up quite a bit of info from those. I'm not clever enough to participate in them, but I shall be doing much more reading and research of my own due to what I've been reading here. And I'll be looking into Buddhism more too.

I've also learned a lot about myself... which is a good thing.

Actual changes... I'm still thinking and I'll get back to you.

Good thread because I have learned so much on here that has changed my opinions I don't even know where to begin.
I think the biggest change was realising that evolution was not the answer I thought it was. This realisation has led me to a new path that I found held the answers to all my questions I ever had and now embrace Raelian belief. I discovered where my true destiny lies by being on this forum.

You wanted an example of change or learning something. Since I have been a member and discussing religion with people on here, I find myself believing less and less in Jesus as messiah and God as described in the bible. Not necessarily because someone changed my mind. But, because statements that are made make me do my own research and as such have changed my views on things.

As a result of me being here, my sister has been reading posts, and after being a Christian most of her life she finds herself believing less and less, like you. It was actually posts by fellow Christians which initiated this change. She's probably got more from me being here than I have actually.

I learnt more about the history of the bible, and where all the stories orginiated from.

I hate to say it, but it's the same here. And, I'm not one of those who just hates or derides Christians for the sake of it. I'm very open minded and believe everyone is entitled to believe whatever they choose. So, it's a little odd to realize that it's not the atheists and agnostics turning me to their side. It's the Christians turning me away from their side.

I'm not bashing Christians and I'm not lumping all Christians in with the ones who've put me off. I'm just responding to Shadow Hill's comment. Please don't turn this into a heated religous debate. It's about what you've learned from this site and that's what I've learned.

My main change here on the Religion vs. Skepticism forum would have to be my view of Buddhism. I used to think it was pretty worthless but now that I know more about it I can see a lot of great insight coming from the religion.

Very cool answers, so far. This is turning into a very cool thread. You guys have been great. Namaste.

Oh yeah, oh yeah!! I've learned that some chimps are starting to use "spears" to hunt bush babies, cows can give skim milk now, you can use aluminum pellets to make hydrogen to run your car, the ice caps are melting far faster than predicted, bees are disappearing and no one really knows why, etc...


Geez, I LOVE this website. I used to come on here solely to read the articles. I have totally neglected My Space since I've gotten involved in the forums.

Hmm...
I've learned people are a lot less tolerant than I thought.

Personally, I think I look back on what I WAS once upon a time and realize how much time I wasted "seeking my internal center", or whatever the current chic new age term is.

And I realize Bill and Ted were a lot closer to the truth than many "Great Minds" out there.

interesting conclusion eggy.

I learned quite a bit on my own hermitage, most vividly how hard it is to come back.

But you are correct. We can waste a great deal of time being too introspective.

Now to name names (but not all):

Gideon, I learned a bit more about second sight from you, and a deeper appreciation for things I before only looked at academically.

Mako, I learned quite a few interesting historical tidbits that made me rethink who the jesus of the bible was based on.

Turtle, for sharing your personal NDE with me, I can say I have a better feel for what NDE'ers really experience and your openness to "not knowing what it really says about what is after life" allowed me to explore ideas I may not have otherwise.

Venom, in our debates on consciousness you showed me a wonderful zest for understanding and life in general.

sheri, from you I have learned that the word "spiritual" is not a bad word.

From all 5 of you, I have softened, or changed my attitude on the topics discussed here from being purely analytical to accepting a more emotive exploration.



Finally, to 101 and PA, you showed me different personal experiences of what "being a christian" is, from which I learned to better appreciate and see the positive in even those things I don't agree with.

Primate changes? Like, an evolution of sorts in hunter/gatherer intelligence?! Love it. In the spirit of this thread, for those that don't know about this, a link: National Geographic Article - Chimps Use "Spears" to Hunt Mammals, Study Says


I have enjoyed my time at UM. Since having more time to spend, I've met a great number of people that teach me what it's like to live in faith. I read some that are truly an inspiration in their spiritual nature, their humor, their deep quiet that rarely speaks but when it does, always teaches me more about myself, because I investigate more on what they had to say. As such I've began research into topics that concern this forum particularly. Gnosticism, Deism, Wicca, and other Pagan practices, as example are just a few of the new topics I've started to study.

The thing about the Internet is, people can pretend to be anyone. So one doesn't really know if the people they're reading or speaking to, are sincere in who they claim to be, when they say they hold faith in this or that, or believe such and such. Realizing that, it's still fascinating to attend any diverse community the likes of the theme of this and the religion and beliefs forum, because it lends insight into what people see, beyond the mundane material reality of our day to day. What we all think about when we think there's something more than just us. And I enjoy that very much. So for me, everyday is a learning experience. Not only about various subjects, but about community and myself.

Great post Gideon Mage. I'm pleased to say I know you, it's a privilege to say that about many that I very much appreciate, in these forums.

Namaste, indeed.

indeed GW, I forgot to extend a thank-you to gideon for creating this topic.

thank-you, gideon.

this thread, and your posts are most appreciated.

I've learned that I suck at debate, and that expressing 'my' opinion here seems to feed my ego more than I care to admit.

After countless hours of reading posts here in the religious forums, I became aware that I still felt disdain towards my once held beliefs, and also became aware of some lingering unforgiveness.

I've learned that talk is cheap, but love for your fellow man is priceless.

I've learned that we all desire to have a voice, and to have it be heard and respected.

I've learned that I don't like having my perceived faults illuminated for the sake of debate only, and therefore should not seek to illuminate others.

I've learned that debating on religious issues is not my forte', and probably won't be spending much time here in these 2 forums.

I've come to care for, and appreciate each and everyone of you, and I'm so glad to have made your acquaintance.


edited to add: for the sake of debate only

YOU ARE MOST WELCOME, AND i AM MOST BLUSHING. All I can say is, that it must have come from my "higher power", the Goddess Kwan Yin. I am extending your thanks to her (ALTHOUGH SHE PROBABLY ALREADY KNOWS, hahaha-I can hear her tinkling laughter as I type this). I think everyone, including myself, that has posted on this thread, is having a good breakthrough.

I have learned that there is still much for me to learn.

I have learned that there is more to life than worrying about what comes after life.

I have learned that there are people I have never physically met that I care for.

I have relearned that YOUR path is not neccessarily MY path, and we should not dictate what anothers path SHOULD be.

I have learned to respect other peoples post, even if I don't agree with what is said...

I have learned so much about the paranormal...

I have learned that there is somethiing new to learn every day....

I have learned that there are caring and wonderful people at UM....

Thanks Gideon

This forum is a huge pool of concentrated information and ideas... I've learned a great deal since coming here. It'd be hard to list everything.

Just for the fun of it, one thing of many:
That Chimps eat meat.
I seriously did not know that...
-
This is a good thread and I apologize for not adding anything of much substance to it.

Chimps eat meat.....
Just kidding!
It's all substance. Be literate and be honest, and it'll be appreciated. (The literate just means semi readable, not in wing-dings font).

I'd like to add that I've learned where to find a great number of gorgeous images and links, from those that share on the forums. There are also a few hilarious GIF images or signatures, that I admit to borrowing,as well, because I have a quirky sense of humor.

And the best thing about all those beautiful images, is passing some along (with linkages of course. That's just being neighborly. ) (Source)

Hmm. I've learned lots as others have said, but most importantly I learned that I had a choice. Before discovering these forums, being reared in a Christian family, I thought the world was divided into believers, unbelievers and devil-worshippers, and that was it. Now I know that there are many other faiths, just as valid as Christianity, and now hold a very personal belief system. Even if I haven't integrated myself into the community, I still visit regularly for learning.

wtf I have never thought of that. I googled it and found out that gorillas don't.

omg chimps murder? attack human babies?!

GW, I love the pics of Iceland in that linky... beautiful. Thank'ee kindly.

You're welcome. I'd like to visit Iceland one day. One of the most beautiful countries I think I've ever seen in pictures. Walking about there, would be a dream come true. And what's fascinating is they honor the old myths,even today. Believing in fairy and the like. It's said to be magical. I'd like to find out.

I've learned that "Firefly" is a unifying force in the 'verse.

I've learnt a lot from everyone on here, it's hard to pinpoint specifics. I think one of the major changes of belief though has been my opinions on 1 - predestination/free will, and 2 - hell. The first one, I used to believe in God-given free will. If you read my early posts, I was arguing strongly for the existence of it, and one day, I thought I'd find the Bible passages to back me up on this. However, I found that free will did not exist according to the Bible, and thus had to change my belief accordingly (I'm not one to twist scripture to support my own view, if the Bible contradicts what I believe then I change my beliefs). The second change (opinion of hell) was a direct result of my change of view of predestination/free will. I believed that hell was either a place of separation or a second and eternal death (Nothingness). While I believed in the free will to choose, I felt it was more likely separation because we chose to be separated in this life. However, with a change in perspective to predestination, my focus shifted to an eternal death, because it would not be merciful for God to leave people separated from him for eternity when they were predestined for that fate.

There are many other ideas that have changed since I've been here, and I've learnt a lot about many different belief systems. I also learnt more than ever since starting here the importance of context. I haven't really been involved with a debate forum before, and to me, reading the Bible in context seemed the obvious thing to do, and I was amazed at the amount of passages quoted by both christians and non-Christians to support their view that were out of context.

Thank you for this thread, Gideon, hope it continues this way

Regards, PA

pa-what I am about to say is not intended as sarcasm, believe me!

Your post, imho, is one of the deepest things I have ever seen you write. I siagree with almost everything you said, but, as I stated, this is not the place to argue or criticize. I would love to see all the mods post on this thread. Certain other people scream loudly by their absence on this thread. Naming names or groups would violate the spirit of this thread. I am writing here to bring it up to the top of the page. "come on down!"

They rape, murder and cannibalize, too. I guess everyone screaming "omg! humans r evil" have another species to add to their list.

I've learnt how to tolerate christians...made great friends with some....(took me long enough though)


and ever since my trip to Birmingham, i am going to buy myself a Gideon bible not to convert lol no, it just has great sections in it for just about anything you can thingk of...great spiritual therapy book

mustenterapostIthoughtbetterofwhatIsaidsoIenteredandtookitaway.howsthatserver!?

Great thread Gid... i have learned so much about myself and have much more to learn LOL...I have great friends and am inspired daily thats why i come to rub elbows with insirational folks.... with you gid, what the mind of a genius looks like and hyper walking wisdom, and GW can write dang can she write Sappho lives and its really GW........sunni bunni , joc and BM are beautiful examples of beleiving in 'god'.they take it to a whole new level......Shadow never says anytijng less than profound...

so far, really good stuff here.

I have learned that I am not alone in my search for life's mysteries. I am evolving every time I read something that makes me question who I am and what I truly believe.
I have learned since coming here that I should ask questions if I want to learn.
I have learned that innocent remarks can be taken to heart and I have watched my words more in everyday conversations.

Watchstopper, that is incredibly thoughtful of you. I am moved by your post.

I have learned that everything I learned about WWII was skewed. I have also learned that there is a vast universe of ideas out there completely foreign to mine. I have learned alot about life in other countries. I have learned alot about diverse belief systems. I have learned that the fringe is exactly that...fringe...and that the majority of people tend to come from the same 'human mainstream thought'....diverse though it is. I have learned that words...since that is all we really engage in here...in print are just as uplifting and can be just as damaging as words spoken in person.

Awww you're so sweet.

And sooo delusional!



(((HUGS))) You are an open hearted, sister that is only surpassed in that by the open mind that takes us all in, and loves us just the way we are. Ok, even though you might like to glue some of us to the ceiling, you smile and find something to that makes us beautiful, because you refuse to let the darkness in life or in any person, surmount the sunshine. And I think that's a uniquely special gift . We're lucky to have you here.

*hands GW a tissue* you got something on your nose kiddo.

Seriously though.

I'm currently learning how to deal with frustration better.

If you think that's brown nosing, you should sneeze and get yourself out of that asseyesview of the world you're currently in, daahhhhlink. Cause the fumes are clouding your mind, just a weeee bit there.

I've learned that as well. I've also learned that some people, if offended, are less likely to listen to you, no matter how right/wrong you are on an issue. So you have to approach people in a calm and respectful manner no matter the issue, and especially if you wish to change their mind. Insulting them does more harm for your cause than good.

no other Christians or mods learned anything here?

If I may be so bold, it would seem apparent you have your answer.
Much like the thread I started asking people to share something they appreciate about other members on board. If I remember correctly it never made it past one page and was largely ignored, for all the reads that were tallied.

This, it would seem, just isn't that kind of place.

I p.m.'d two christians. One responded rather rudely, the other said that they wanted to see where the thread was going.

So one, being rude in the answer to what did they learn via PM, actually provided the answer. (How to be rude)
And the other admitted they'd rather watch and follow behind others, than speak first and lead.

Well, take heart Gideon. “I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him.” Galileo Galilei

religion isn't a seek and find for yourself kind of construct ....

I have learned that tolerance is a two way street.

That spell check is my best friend.

There is no such thing as global morality.

Walt Disney was afraid of mice.

Venus is the only planet that rotates clockwise.

Donkeys kill more people annually than plane crashes.

Moderators should be paid with cheese; it would go well with all the wineing we receive.

Irish

Hey! You can't say that about Donkeys! They call him.... cheddar! Iiiiirish cheddar.

I have learned that what I've always known is re-affirmed, as a member of this board.

As long as you keep a sense of humor, it's all good. Wouldn't you agree, Gideon!?

i have a sense of humor. it is just so wry, most think it is half-baked. hahaha.badumpbump.

makes me crave pastrami