http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_Storie...be_genetic.html



I was having a conversation with some psychologist pals of mine today and this came up.. is there a genetic predispostition to religion?

I have been actually wondering this alot lately...

discuss....

That's an interesting question but I don't think so since I know a lot of people who were raised in religious homes who are not believers any more.

In fact isn't it pretty much the norm that kids tend to reject their religious upbringing?

But it does make you wonder what genetics can do to people

http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=891

The only way that would seem logical to me-- & is rather farfetched-- is if there a predisposition to something like devotion.. A genetic trait to be unconditionally devoted to something in particular-- whatever fullfills them.. If religion is in their doorway, then they are more likely to be devoted to their religion. People with higher drives to succeed is genetic, as people who have more stubborn tendencies toward their beliefs is genetic... Not religion in itself, but certain traits that accompany religion that reinforce it.. A devoted religious father may introduce his son to this religion who has the same genetic trait of devotion, and becomes as devoted as his father... and his son..
as I said, it's farfetched, but it's the only way I see it making sense..

That would make adoption rather a risky proposition then. If an evangelical couple adopted a baby from a pagan things would get messy. (Not that I believe it to be true)

No that would make sense. That the Zeal for whatever they believe would be genetic.

So you figure Tom Cruise's dad was probably pretty nutty.

Wouldn't be any doubt, considering.

Genetic? No. Religious fervor is a learned trait.

And, for the record, Tom got it from his mom.

It is said everyone is born an Atheist. I.E. no god. So, like hate, one has to be taught religion or deific idolotry. And if this is imparted at a young age, when the mind is maliable because the impressionable young are open to being learned how to behave, according to familial and societal constructs, as they grow older it becomes "hard wired". So that, at that older age, if "feels" as if they've always known allah, krishna, or the deity and faith, they've been instructed to understand and believe.

Some time ago there was an article in , among other publications, Time Magazine . Since then it's been criticized (via Belief Net) as bad science and even so much as bad theology. Both article links are included here for clarity.

Excerpt Time Magazine:

"It's not hard to see the divinity behind the water temples that dot the rice terraces of Bali. It's there in the white-clad high priest presiding in the temple at the summit of a dormant volcano. It's there in the 23 priests serving along with him, selected for their jobs when they were still children by a bevy of virgin priestesses.

It's there in the rituals the priests perform to protect the island's water, which in turn is needed to nurture the island's rice.

If the divine is easy to spot, what's harder to make out is the banal. But it's there too—in the meetings the priests convene to schedule their planting dates and combat the problem of crop pests; in the plans they draw up to maintain aqueducts and police conduits; in the irrigation proposals they consider and approve, the dam proposals they reject or amend. "The religion has a temple at every node in the irrigation system," says David Sloan Wilson, professor of biology and anthropology at Binghamton University in Binghamton, N.Y. "The priests make decisions and enforce the code of both religion and irrigation."

Ask true believers of any faith to describe the most important thing that drives their devotion, and they'll tell you it's not a thing at all but a sense—a feeling of a higher power far beyond us. Western religions can get a bit more doctrinaire: God has handed us laws and lore, and it's for us to learn and practice what they teach. " (Continued at Link)


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I was raised Atheist. So, for my input, I can say I've never had a desire to worship any god/dess. As I grew older, I took an interest in why others did, because I'd see , in my childhood, some of the most amazing examples in people, for what they termed their personal faith in god. Then, in school, when I became aware of current events in news papers, and particularly during crisis wherein god was cited as the causative factor, like the histories of the Iran hostages in the later 70's. The ancient histories like the crusades, and inquisition, and even the Contras conflict, as well as that what wages today in Darfur. I would say , looking back, it's a strange thing if it is genetic, to feel compelled to worship a super natural power, while effecting so much real life carnage and oppression within the human community.

I read the underlying messages in all religions, that I've studied even slightly thus far, and it imparts a message of community, love for one's fellow human beings, care and preservation of the spirit, that sacred power, in all creation. And I wonder what happened to that universal message. When, it appears for all intents and purposes, that man has decided that survival of the fittest genetic imprint, has caused them to dissect the universal, into the sectarian ideology. And as such, it , like the survival instincts, is worth defending in the spirit of self preservation. Often to the death. And somehow, if god is a spirit and alive in all things, I would say that is not necessary at all, nor was it part of some divine plan, as so many claim. When, if there exists such a thing, god knows itself creator of all that exists. And I don't think it would require we kill each other, separate our minds into visions of what that power is, in order to prove we know that too.

religion is taught...how could it be genetic?...social norms and beliefs are taught not encoded...

At this rate we'll find a gene for everything, so I won't rule it out. But I wonder if perhaps it's the things which lead to seeking religion which are genetic instead. We tend to have the traits of our parents, and grandparents, so maybe it's the fact that people genetically carry the same motivations towards certain types of behaviour, and those behaviours lead to seeking out specific religions.

My mother is an atheist, but has raised two girls who both believe in a Creator. My father was raised a Catholic but has never believed. My grandmother wasn't religious. My grandfather was a liberal Christian, and a very spiritual man. His mother was a romany gypsy who was very sensitive (as were his uncles). I'm not sure that any generation in my family has sprouted faith/beliefs similar to the previous one. We're a pretty mixed bag.

Since I come from atheists, and accepted God when I was 23, then I don't fit into her theory in any way. Faith is of the spirit. Faith can have demonstrable effects on the body, but sprouting a gene to account for itself is most likely not one of them.

Wow, Truethat, I love your new quote in your signature, it's so moving and beautiful. A really wise person must have said it. It's so true and just puts everything in perspective.

I've never thought religion to be a result of genetics. As of late though I've read some interesting theories, and opinions for that matter, that make the idea slightly more tangible.

I've always seen religion as a result of oppression.

Maybe though, a genetic mechanism kicks in, as a result of oppression that may very well result in religion, or the idea of a messiah, for that matter.

i think that there is something in the genes that makes people to wonder about what, or who created universe. all religions are same in one thing: they try to give answer to why do we exist, or who created us and the universe. i think that something forces us to look for the answers. maybe from this urge science was born, because some people weren't statisfied with religious answer, and tried to get some evidence.
many humans have urge to find out as much as they can about universe. this urge gave birth both to great philosophers, prophets and scientists. so i guess there must be something in our genes

There is a fair amount of evidence for a genetic link to drug and alcohol abuse......so it seems there might also very well be a genetic link to how much a person is religious.

I don't think religion is genetic. Not unless culture is, and as far as we know that ain't the case. Drugs and alcohol are different, they'd definately have some link to genetics because they're chemical.

It seems like they said the same thing about drug and alcohol addiction in the past......time will tell


Genes contribute to religious inclination

Genes may help determine how religious a person is, suggests a new study of US twins. And the effects of a religious upbringing may fade with time.

Until about 25 years ago, scientists assumed that religious behaviour was simply the product of a person's socialisation - or "nurture". But more recent studies, including those on adult twins who were raised apart, suggest genes contribute about 40% of the variability in a person's religiousness.

But it is not clear how that contribution changes with age. A few studies on children and teenagers - with biological or adoptive parents - show the children tend to mirror the religious beliefs and behaviours of the parents with whom they live. That suggests genes play a small role in religiousness at that age.

Now, researchers led by Laura Koenig, a psychology graduate student at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis, US, have tried to tease apart how the effects of nature and nurture vary with time. Their study suggests that as adolescents grow into adults, genetic factors become more important in determining how religious a person is, while environmental factors wane.
Source

EDIT: Had to add your post to keep it in context.

Really? How long ago was this? As far as I'm concerned, drugs and alcohol, having a direct effect on the body, being chemicals, and thus on the genes, would have to be genetically linked. It's logic. Religion on the other hand, would affect the neurons at most, but not the genes... I dunno. That's what I figure anyway.

I would say that it is not genetic. Not bashing any relgions or anything but you must admit that religion is all about faith and everything. Which is phsycological. And it can be affected easily. Genes on the other hand, are much harder to manipulate. For example me, I used to be very religious until I drastically changed to the opposite side of the spectrum very quickly. If it was genetic I would believe there would some side affects.

I have to agree that it is not genetic...I believe it is our personal choice as we reach adulthood...I was born and raised a Christian, as were my children...As they reached a certain age, their beliefs changed and I respected that, and did not try to change them...They believe in their own God, just not the beliefs they were raised on.

I believe that the study proved that people who are more devout actually do posess a different gene. I can't recall the exact name of the gene at this point but it was prevalaint in those people with very strong religious conviction.

The reason as to why the gene effects religious perspective is that those people who have the gene experience a greater rush or high from the thought of a God or Gods or religious icons of whatever nature they are attracted to.

It is much the same with hereditary alcoholism.

Genetics aren't all 1+1 =2 you don't necisarily get an exact replica of Mum and Dad when you mix their genes. Spontaneus genetic mutation is a common reality. This would explain why some people who when brought up with religion don't feel a need to follow it later in life and vice versa.

Still the gene was not found in every member of a religion only those who felt an extreme closeness to God. It's a very interesting subject, I posted a thread on the same topic when the Time magazine story first came out. I still have the magazine somewhere. Very pretty picture on the front cover.

There's no doubt that there is some type of sensory stimulation, an internal gratification, that is "tickled" during extreme religious participation. I do not doubt that a alternative plane of consciousness can be achieved via any type of extreme devoutness, or a reliquishing of ones-self to a total concentration on what-have-you.

What I also believe is that this can be achieved.......with the absense of religion, with the absense of God!

What we may very-well be touching on here is an innate, genetic, ability to render our minds to this experience.

To call it religion, to call it the power of God may actually hinder the true essence of what we're witnessing here, which is a natural human ability who's true potential may never be fully revealed while we mask it and call it other things.

I truly believe that religion or the debate over such has prevented humans from realizing this potential and uniting under this final underlying truth..........that there is much more to humans than flesh and bone and rosy red cheeks.

I'm actually torn on this, alot of great posts keep em coming.... i always felt i was predisposed to NB i knew it early...

Very good points Chauncy.

Is it a question of wether or not the gene explains away spirituality or wether it is an integral part of the experience.

I think it's partially genetic. Your metabolism and ability to process sensory inputs are bound to affect your spiritual take on the world. These things are body functions determined by genetics. Obviously, personal experience is going to shape your attitude too.

Well if there is a specific gene that allows for these experiences.....does this explain away religion, or does it prove God. Regardless propenents from either side will lay claim in accordance to their personal beliefs.

The fact that we do experience things that no other species on this planet experiences tells me that there is some type of mechanism at work within the human body.

As I mentioned before , I believe that this mechanism is truly untapped. Sure we touch apon it, we whisper about it, we only mention it to certain people.......but we DO experience it.

Say we take away religion, the idea of the Christian God......and we then examine this mechanism. What then could it be..........A natural human ability........A natural human power?


Allthough, I did take acid one time that ammounted in a spiritual experience...............LOL

We know that the masses are divided by race, creed, and religious beliefs........but imagen the masses united under the understanding of our natural ability. It would be a different world in which we live....this idea of the masses uniting would allow us to see past the borders and divisions that surrond us today.

Maybe somewhere along our history the knowledge of this innate mechanism was withheld from us, kept secret for some reason.....I mean after-all a united society is a society that cannott be ruled, subdued, nor oppressed!

I agree with most of what you've written (& the stuff I don't agree with is very interesting) but I'm not convinced that we are the only species that perceives the Infinite. We may be the only species that can externalize, analyze, and verbalize religious experience. But I think the level of totally open contentment that some animals can experience might be a form of connecting with the Whole. I think a Taoist might tell you that animals are connected to the Tao.

Sure I believe that animals are naturally connected in such a manner.....as with the whole of nature. We as humans have become complacent in the fact that we have forgotten that we are just as much a part of our environment, the eco-system, as animals plants and bugs.

But the cognitve awarness , the sub-conscious, the fact that we become embarassed and feel guilt, the fact that we can verbalize these feelings to one another and we can feel empathy and sympathy seperates us from the other species that thrive among us.

It is this total reliquishment of ones self to the natural energy around us that we have either forgotten or never knew,............. I'm more apt to believe the prior than the latter.

Your Eutopia sounds beautiful Chauncy. I'm not sure it would work, but it would be nice to think it could.