i've said it before many times... i don't go to church unless my mom asks me to as a favor...
recently i've really been annoyed and irritated by SOME people that go to church...

1) why do people think that because you are Christian that you have to go to church? i don't go to church because i really don't like SOME of the people there that are full of sh**...

2) Christians who PRETEND to live a holy life and go home and do worse than the people they look down on... i sin all the time, constantly... but i don't try to hide it or act like i'm holy...

everyone sins and SOME Christians need to face that fact and stop acting like they are perfect...

3) Christians who quote the following Bible verses really get to me...

"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right." Ephesians 6:1

"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord." Colossians 3:20

it's not the quoting of the verses, it's the fact that they always throw that out there after constantly irritating the hell out of their kids...
sometimes my mom annoys me to the point that i want to kill someone or shoot myself in the head so i don't have to hear her talk anymore... yeah it sounds bad, but it's true... i have had suicidal thoughts because my mom just kept nagging me constantly when i was in high school...

if i ever have kids to raise, i won't annoy them to the point it makes them psychotic... because for some reason parents seem to ignore/look over/ forget

"And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Ephesians 6:4

i wonder how many parents provoke their kids to wrath?

4) i really HATE... yeah it's a strong word... but i really HATE the mixing of personal OPINION with scripture...
the one the really bothers me is what older Christians call "Shacking Up"

for those that don't know what that is.. it's when two people who live together that aren't married...

the other day, my mom mentions it to me and then says, "God doesn't like that."

i asked her and my cousin (both are preachers) to show me that in the Bible (knowing it doesn't say it)...

i teach Bible study, and as a matter of fact, both of them attend the class i teach... so it's not like i was really asking out of curiosity... it was more sarcastic and being pissed off...

long story short, it's not in there... it's a made up OPINION of older church folk...
my mom followed with the explanation of children coming from broken homes when parents aren't married... lol...
so of course i bring up the fact that children of married people come from broken homes too...
that didn't sit too well with them at all...

5) God helps those who help themselves...

this irritates me almost more than the shacking up comment... if you can help yourself, why do you need God?

the whole theme of the Bible is that God helps those who realize that they can't help themselves and then turn to Him for help...

at this point, i'm ready to never step foot in a church again...

6) tithes and offering...

i understand offering, it's a voluntary gift... but i hate the fact that before the tithes and offering part, they read...

"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." Malachi 3:8

what exactly does that verse have to do with giving money to the church?

7) finally i really HATE when people call the church God's house as if He lives there...

"Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet," Acts 7:48

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;" Acts 17:24

"Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" Isaiah 66:1

at the moment, i'm a little bit fed up with SOME church people... the one's the do the above are IMO the worst of the bunch... and probably the biggest sinners of them all...

they use the Bible to KNOWINGLY lie... and if they don't know... it is still their fault because they have Bibles, all they have to do is open it and read it...

Not everyone thinks that because you are a christian its a given to attend church

As you already know, God can hear you anywhere..he is everywhere you are, so whenever you speak to the lord, it dont matter where you are, he will hear you

it still makes you a christian IMO

I think a lot like to attend church, to feel part of something, its a good way to meet other christians like themselves and later talk about it all......I think!!

Are you two agreeing???????????? Stop the bus! The world is going to implode!!!!

Hi Thaphantum,
Yeah, I know what you mean. I sure don't like it either. I quit going years and years ago. As a substitute I started reading anything I could get my hands on that was evenly remotely spiritually connected. Like "The Nag Hammadi" and other Gnostic works of antiquity. Right now I'm reading up on Shamanism. There is also a book I read not too long ago that is called "Jesus, last of the Pharaohs" that I thought was highly enlightening. I know its really hard especially when people try to put you down for defending your point of view. Im 60 so no one is aware that I even have a point of view. (ha ha) Naw. I just dont talk about it. There is a place called Corn Lake I go to and I guess that is the place I like most of all to try and connect spiritually with our Father. Also Dreaming. Dreaming helps a lot. I sure could feel the rage in your post. No matter how angry you get dont harm yourself. Good luck and I sure do know how you feel.
Blessings
Budhabee

lol


Well its like this..I have and prolly still will agree with a few of his posts..and then there will be times when i wont...and will state why I dont

I dont disagree with him because I just dont like him...NO..I cant say if i dont like him or not..I just dont like some of the things said that I disagree with...but there are times he does make good posts..and I cant be baised and disagree just for the sake of it..thats silly LOL

When i read a good post, I will say so, regardless who its from, I dont care look see if I have had a run in with that person or not...I speak my mind lol..........thaphantum knows it lol he justs has trouble with the posts I disagree with...but thats life, you cant have it the one way all the time

Besides I hate to hold grudges lol...only weak people hold grudges!!!

Well thaphantum, you sure as heck wouldn't like my aunt.

I have to admit that if there was an actual Deist church for me to go to, which would be a novel idea, I wouldn't go. I think we're more than capable of finding our way alone... church isn't for everyone.

Hi phantum,

Obviously, one does not have to attend church to be a Christian, but by not meeting you are allowing the enemy to keep you from experiencing a great blessing of fellowship and service.

THERE ARE CHURCHES THAT ACTUALLY FELLOWSHIP! AMAZING! What church do you go to?

There was a case of exactly that within the context of my 'family'. Not immediate family or even blood...my uncle's sister's daughter...her 13 year old son did exactly that...in front of her...on Mother's Day. I hope that you take your suicidal tendencies seriously and get some professional help. Professional help doesn't mean a 'psychiatrist' but rather just some one who is professionally trained to listen and guide you through your thought process.

Sometimes we get to close to the flame...it might be an idea to back away from the flame...in your particular situation I would view the flame as religion. I will never forget what a girl wrote in my Senior Highschool yearbook:

Forget the bad...Remember the good!

I agree on the grudges, i can't stay upset for one and two I don't live in the past and i would forget anyways in a whole day ..everyday is a new day , a glorious oppourtunity to start anew to be grateful for the chance to grow and love and make of life what you will, i am never a victim of anything nor live my life that way.... .... great post Sis and one of many of your great qualitys....

You go to a church that DOESN'T fellowship? Wow! Every church I've been a part of was made up of people who loved and cared for each other (maybe not everyone and not all the time), and did things other than church services together, picnics, parties, work days, ...

Yes, there ARE churches where people actually fellowship and serve.

The church (Ekklesia) is the one body of Christ, not a building or denomination. Be careful about finding faults in others hypocrisy, this what drove Anton LaVey to Satanism.

1) why do people think that because you are Christian that you have to go to church? i don't go to church because i really don't like SOME of the people there that are full of sh**... - The primary reason for Christians thinking that you should go to church is the command in Hebrews 10:25, which states "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the day approaching". Of course, this refers to the "Church" as it was intended (that is to say, meeting up with fellow believers). a modern church service is usually one of the few places that you can go to get this on a regular basis in the modern world. There are other alternatives, such as Bible study groups...... which I see you do attend (indeed, lead them even). This is also a form of church. Just a quick question though - who organised this Bible study group? Was it you or a particular church? If it was organised by a church (perhaps the one to which your parents belonged), they usually have rules that you also have to be a regular member of the Church Service to be permitted to lead Bible Study. Just curious......

2) Christians who PRETEND to live a holy life and go home and do worse than the people they look down on... i sin all the time, constantly... but i don't try to hide it or act like i'm holy...

everyone sins and SOME Christians need to face that fact and stop acting like they are perfect... - on this I have no argument, and fully agree. Nothing is worse than a hypocrite. If someone acts all good and proper for an hour a week (at church) but spends the rest of their time living just like everyone else (and even worse than everyone else), it doesn't show people what a real Chrisitan should be like. But as you say, Christians are not perfect either, and will continue to sin. That makes things a little murkier, but I think the difference between someone who is a hypocrite and someone who is struggling with their sins would be obvious to most people.

3) Christians who quote the following Bible verses really get to me...
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right." Ephesians 6:1
"Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord." Colossians 3:20
...........because for some reason parents seem to ignore/look over/ forget
"And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Ephesians 6:4
i wonder how many parents provoke their kids to wrath? - I agree with the general principle of this. However, I don't think we can use this as a cover-statement for every situation. I can't comment on your particular situation because I don't know anything about you or your family. Sometimes a parent is unreasonable in their requests, but sometimes it is the child. An extreme example would be a child crying for a chocolate bar at the shops. From the childs point of view, the mother or father is indeed "provoking their children to wrath" because they aren't buying them the chocolate. So I've seen many a child scream and throw a tantrum, even hit their parents. Is it the parent being unreasonable by not buying the chockie, or is it the child being unreasonable? I know this is only one example, there are others. There has to be a certain level of give-and-take with this. I think in general though, unless a child is old enough to leave home, they should obey their parent's wishes (they are under their house, their rules, their guidance until then).

4) i really HATE... yeah it's a strong word... but i really HATE the mixing of personal OPINION with scripture...
the one the really bothers me is what older Christians call "Shacking Up"
.....the other day, my mom mentions it to me and then says, "God doesn't like that."
i asked her and my cousin (both are preachers) to show me that in the Bible (knowing it doesn't say it)...
.....long story short, it's not in there... it's a made up OPINION of older church folk... - I'd agree to a point. The concept of marriage is not based on a ceremony and a piece of paper, it's a matter of the heart between the two people and God. That is what marriage is. And yes, many de facto relationships (de facto being what I think refer to as "shacking up") would fall under God's law of marriage. However, it can also be abused - I know a Christian couple who were dating and having sex with each other and claiming that they were "married in God's eyes" (I'm not sure if at any point they were living with each other, but the principle is the same). Which is quite an acceptable statement to make, if they mean it. Except that they broke up one day and six weeks later, both were involved in other relationships and having sex and claiming again that they were "married in God's eyes". No mention of divorce, no mention of marriage supposedly being for life...... in short, it was an excuse.

5) God helps those who help themselves...
this irritates me almost more than the shacking up comment... if you can help yourself, why do you need God?
the whole theme of the Bible is that God helps those who realize that they can't help themselves and then turn to Him for help...
at this point, i'm ready to never step foot in a church again... - There is no Bible passage that says "God helps those who help themselves", though many people mitakenly believe that it is in there somewhere. You are right, the entire theme of the Bible is that we cannot help ourselves.

6) tithes and offering...
i understand offering, it's a voluntary gift... but i hate the fact that before the tithes and offering part, they read...
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings." Malachi 3:8
what exactly does that verse have to do with giving money to the church? - I don't think tithes should be taken in any modern church. Tithes were offerings of food for the Levites (priests), who were not allowed to own property to grow grain or herd cattle. They were dependant entirely on the food offerings for their survival. Tithes were never intended as monetary income. In the modern world, tithes have no place. That does not mean that people cannot offer up freewill offerings of their money to help out the church (indeed, I think if one is a member of the church community they should help out with money if they can), but there is no base-figure of 10% (is that before or after tax, by the way?). I'm still surprised by the amount of churches that say God requires 10% - it's wrong, and I think you'll find many churches that would agree with that. Just another thought, phantum - have you considered finding a different church to attend if this one is annoying you so much?

7) finally i really HATE when people call the church God's house as if He lives there...
"Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet," Acts 7:48
"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;" Acts 17:24
"Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" Isaiah 66:1 - Agreed, but when you put Christians together in that building, then the Christians themselves become the dwelling place of God. A Church is just a building, it is the people within that make it the House of God.

at the moment, i'm a little bit fed up with SOME church people... the one's the do the above are IMO the worst of the bunch... and probably the biggest sinners of them all...

they use the Bible to KNOWINGLY lie... and if they don't know... it is still their fault because they have Bibles, all they have to do is open it and read it...
- Unfortunately, people who attend church don't always read their bible's. They should, but they don't. You will always have this, you can't help it. You can only help your own life by making sure you read it yourself.

Hope this is helpful, phantum As I mentioned earlier, perhaps you could try a different church if this one is bugging you so much.

Regards, PA

the churches I've been to are filled with haters, hypocrites, liars, theives.....but than again this is LA.

Every church is filled with haters, hypocrites, liars, and thieves. If you find one that isn't, you have probably passed beyond the pearly gates.

I agree about the point on christians. The real house of god is within us. How many churchs do something good for there area instead for themselves. To my knowledge at least around where I live NONE. It like going to high school all over again except the bullys assault you with scripture. Same principal as people without kids tell you how to raise yours.

Yes there is ! the one i used to go with, can't compare it to any fellowship in this world.
I missed it but we have to grow and go places.
I will never find that fellowship again.
Once in a lifetime experience.

CORRECT, and I doubt very much anyone can argue likewise lol

In fact..the world is full of them too...

Well said, SSL!

i'm 24 now, dealt with it throughout highschool... don't really think "professional" help was ever needed...

now it's just mildly annoying cause i really don't have to hear it if i don't want to... most of the time, i just tune out the phone calls i don't feel like listening to...



actually the flame is RELIGIOUS PEOPLE...

if i didn't believe in God and what the Bible says, i just might have done it...
now on the other hand... i'm about to fall victim (in a way) to one of the things i HATE...

my PERSONAL belief is that if you commit suicide you go to hell...
it's not written anywhere in the Bible, it's just a personal feeling i have... lol... and i don't really want to test the theory to find out if it's true or not...

Hey Thaphantum,
I wrote you a poem. It's kinda cool.

The Temple
Once there was a Temple
(ok, ok, ok, it was a screened in back porch)
It had an inner sanctuary and an outer sanctuary
(ok, ok, ok, it had two rooms)
It had a veil
(ok, ok, ok, they were kitchen curtains)
And it had an Alter
(ok, ok, ok, it was a beat up old coffee table)

That's it.
Vee

I think I can quote tupac here: "am i any less holy, cuz I choose to smoke a blunt and drink a beer with my homies?"