I could think of no better place to post this link than in the "religion and beliefs" section, some may say, it has nothing to do with religion or beliefs....and you may be right...but still interesting

http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/68/gay_or_straight

too tired to watch it. is it something about not knowing if kids will be straight? bi? homosexuals?
sum it up for us.

No it is about predicting it at a very early age, the lady from 60 minutes even took the test, they showed her videos of kids at a young age (who are now grown up) and she predicted whether or not they were going to be straight or gay when they grew up...and she got them all right....

it has lots of video clips from that episode of 60 minutes as well as scientist who are altering the genetics of mice to make them GAY....so I guess now gays can ask for gay pets?

What makes this an issue, clearly, is those future gay children, stand a chance of growing up in a society that already says they're morally corrupt, legally unequal and an abomination in eyes of their maker.

One day we'll be a civilized society and that way our self wont be put under a microscope, as science attempts to impart the message: We're trying to figure out what makes you different. And then, the anal homophobic members in our world, can breathe a sigh of relief as they think, if they can figure out what makes it happen, it just might be cured. So they can feel better about living in a world, where everybody's sexable, because they're all straight.

As a parent would I be more concerned about the kid who's a junior Marine and plays war games or the one who paints his fingernails?

Hey! Just think! If he grows up to be a full marine and paints his fingernails, the DADT rule puts him out , despite his honorable heroic service record, in service to our country! We're fighting so they can be free, while we (gay service personnel) aren't! Hurrah!

I'm curious as to what the signs are, and the sampling basis. Usually with boys, I've heard they realize it when they're about 11 or 12, just pre-pubescent or around puberty. With girls, it's a little more difficult, since some of them can be hetero for much of their lives, then become pure homo, or vice versa, or in varying degrees of that.

I'm curious as to the significant signs of her predictions--
Anyway, it's devastating for the particular kids who do grow up being Gay. Their fate has already sealed them as rejects and sinners in our society (for the most part). What chances are there for them to live their lives without being subjected to this sort of cruelty.. it's unlikely.

My sister was young (elementuary school) and had "crushes" on her female teachers.. she didn't know what gay was, or homosexuality, all she knew was she felt this way...

whats wrong with being homosexual
it was ok for my father
and my grandfather
and my great grandfather
and my great great grandfather
and my great great great grandfather

One aspect I look at is that society has dubbed what is normal in our everyday sexual life. Most sexual rules come from the Bible or other religious reference. Do not phornicate. Do not commit adultery. Do not rape. Do not have oral sex. Do not have sex with those of the same sex. Dont have sex with those of the same blood as you. And the list goes on. Everyone has a sexual fettish and everyone has a sexual drive.

Now with sexual fettish no one really has a normal fettish. For example you could be with two different guys. One could have a breast fettish and fondle your breasts. The other could have an ear fettish and enjoy licking or touching your ears.

So which one is normal? And which one is odd? The answer is neither. Both are equally the same because both fettishes arouse and build up their sex drive. Most imputence is due to someone being ashamed of their fettish or not being allowed to use their fettishes to get aroused.

Sex drive is the most important part of intercourse. with no drive there is no arousal and with no arousal there is basicly no sex.

In my opinion your sister may have been having these "crushes" not necessarily due to a sexual attraction but simply an attraction to the woman herself. Girls and boys tend to idolise older people be them fake such as a comic hero or a character on a movie or tv. The attraction may appear sexual but may be in reality to the person who has the attraction it may not.

Girls tend to rush womanhood more than boys do manhood. Girls for example see a womans breasts and perhaps pubic hair or even pregnacy and wish or want that mature level that their bodies have not developed yet. Same as boys who wish for facial hair and pretend to shave. It is natural curiosity that can be miss read as perversion or sexual attraction.

And this next subject is the big one when it comes to both children and adults when it comes to sexual attraction. Curiosity. Everyone here has been curiouse about something sexual they have not experienced. Once sexual attraction first hits boys and girls at the pre-teens and even before that curiosity of sex is there. Childeren and teens will tend to try and fufill their first level of curiosity, the naked body. Peeping Tom or whatever you want to call it is normally the nickname for such behavior nomaly seen more in boys than in girls.

Most boys get the old playboy intro. But even with that most feel the need to see or experience first hand. So they sneek into the bathroom while their friends sister or ect is in the shower or changing. And girls will do the same. The major problem is how such situations are handled.

Most if not all are dealt with heavy punishment. For example, little tommy was curiouse so he peeked at his mother while she was undressing. She caught him and got upset and began screaming and yelling and probably spanked him and told him that only perverts do that or ect. Now Tommy is ahamed of his curiosity and two different circumstances can come from this. First he could take this experience and become shy or insecure of his sexuality. Or he could gain a complex and a little curiousity can become a sexual disorder or mental illness.

Now the best way to probably handle such situaion would be to keep a calm head. Explain that it is not right to invade others privacy even if you are curiouse. Explain that curiousity is normal and that it is ok. A child (and even an adult) who is not ashamed of a question or fearful of the outcome if such questions are asked will normaly ask the questions that are on their minds.

bi-homosexuality can surface from random curiousity or fettish or even in some circumstances mental disorder or abuse. So the big question is, Is homosexuality there before or after sexual curiosity? And was the choice made by the idividual through natural process or from something exterior in their life? Is a guy gay because he has an anal fettish? is a woman gay because she has a nipple fettish?

Most people consider themselves homosexual because they have these fettishes or curiosities. For example I had a friend who though he was gay just because he had a dream of a homosexual act. We all have homosexual tendencies. Masterbation is considered a homosexual tendency due to the fact that we are stimulating a sex organ of the same sex.

So to cut this short, I'll finish with this. The problem is not the rejection of homosexuals but the issue of rejecting sex in all its different forms, fettishes and curiosities. Untill we as a society can fully accept how big a part of our lives that sex is and leave the word taboo alone unless in the extreme situations homosexuals, the sexualy curiouse, and the fettishes will remain rejected and subjugated.

Theirs nothing wrong with it. Never was anything wrong with and their will never be anything wrong with it.

Personal beliefs do not dictate the beliefs of everybody. One religion does not trump the others.

I do not think homosexuality is wrong but some do...but just because some people and some religions think its wrong doesn't make it so.

Right and wrong are perspectives and opinions and no entities perspective or opinion is greater then another's.

Cadetak, You hit nail on the head!

and

Dave, all in all, your thoughts are absolutely interesting ....& you make a great point!

so the bulk of straight men have that have a breast fetish are straight because of a fetish? so what makes straight women straight ? alot of straight women admire how other women look, most do. that doesn't make them lesbians.

I've never heard of masturbation thought of as a homosexual act or tendency - ever. and 99% of people do it. many will lie but they do it.

what about sexual abuse by your view ? does that sway sexuality ? some think wrongly it makes lesbians. that it turns women against men to become lesbians. yet wouldn't we be overrun with lesbians ? my brothers and I were abused , I'm a lesbian and they are straight. why? I've a straight sister that I've learned recently had a lesbian experience so to speak - who said it was no big deal , but that didn't change her sexuality. It shocked the heck out of me however and strangely I didn't like hearing it. Maybe because it involved a man and that desecrates the whole thing to me. cheapens it.

right now there is no way of knowing. what may seem a social push of one becoming gay or lesbian isn't true for another. and with such easy so called answers the same should apply for straight people. I have no doubt that soon they will find the genetic and brain base for all sexuality. that how we are attracted to each other is a normal part of nature.



I have only one sexual fetish. to make sure my partner is well pleased.

and it very well could have been. being gay doesn't mean you can't procreate. that's a stupid notion.

It's really surreal because it's the twenty-first century and many people are still hung-up on this issue: gay or straight. Whatever happened to love, humanity, and pure HOT (group) sex (with all the proper precautions, of course)???

Another thing that's interesting is the dramatic contrast between these two boys. I think the video said they were ten year old twins. One would think that twins would be alike in their sexual orientation, for one thing. Although a few years ago I did work with a fellow who was (from my knowledge of him) straight and he and his friends believed his twin brother was gay. I think this video is some proof of sexual orientation as being something we're born with as opposed to choice. I don't think a ten year old has had enough experience to make such an intellectual decision.

I also think that in any given population there are perhaps 10% (or whatever it is) who are totally gay and 10% who are totally heterosexual. The other 80% in varying degrees could go either way on occasion given the right circumstances, or at least have some interest to do so.

In the end it shouldn't really matter to anyone, as one's love life is so personal and is no one's business except for that individual. I hate prejudice in any form. I'm not interested in some straight person's love life, so why would a gay person's love life hold any special interest for me? We should accept people as who they are, and if a boy wants to paint his fingernails, good for him. When the local bully gives him a hard time, I'll be that kid's backup.

As an edit, it occurs to me that the other twin, the jr. Marine, may be gay as well, he may just express it in a different way. Also, the other twin may not be gay at all, he may be transgender or a cross-dresser, which is considered seperate from the definition of homosexuality. I once had a girl friend who had divorced her husband because he insisted on wearing woman's clothing when they made love together. So who knows, guess it's all a complicated subject.

ah no youre missing my point
my name is Jesus
i tried to tell men that they should just love each other and grow lots of hair and big moustaches (like my dad) and dont hang around with many women and definitely don't ever sleep with any (like my dad) and some guy called Paul got hold of it and twisted it all round, bloody hetero fundies always up to no good
if what he said catches on the world will be in a real mess
I tried to come back sooner and point this out but got held up at customs because of some of my ahem religous paraphrenalia in my suitcase got mistaken for a large salami and apparently transporting meat over a federal border is an offence. I don't understand that at all, the pilot of Aif Force one never gets pulled up over it
so here I am
tell me
been much trouble about it has there ?

And that is why I said it all comes down to fettish and curiousity. The breast fettish doesnt neccisarrily make a man straight neither does an anal fettish make him gay. It is what stimulates him and creates arousal. As I said without arousal there is no sex drive and without sex drive there is no intercourse.

Indeed I explained this when I talked about how a simple idolistic gesture could be misuderstood as a homosexual attraction.

Honestly the only thing that separates a sex offender for a lover is the willingness of the other person. Hence the term, "You cant rape the willing."

I believe sexual abuse is created by those who have a missunderstanding of sexual relations or a sexual disorder or mental illness from past experiences with either sexual partners or abuse themselves. Abuse can be both mental and physical. Not all sexual abuse is under the catagory of molestation. Sexual harrasment can be an even greater cause for sexual disorders or mental illness. For example a boy who grew up all ways being picked on for his penis size or akwardness towards women or ect will more than likely have some disorder over the boy who was molested. And the same for girls who were picked on for simalar reasons.
And the same could be said for those who do turn homosexual with out natural impulse. For example take the boy mentioned above and have him be excepted by a homosexual group or a single man. The boy now a man, feeling rejected by the opposite sex but welcomed by the same sex in a homosexual relationship will more than likely become homosexual, not necissarily because he has an attraction to men but because that lifestyle is what accepted him and showed him love. Something that even the most cold hearted person needs in their life. So see it is not only lesibians who experience this. But none the less all people are different and handle things differently. All we can do is analyse the situations and those who experienced them and make assumptions on similar cases.

And with your sister, my answer would be that she simply had a sexual curiousity that she felt comfortable fufilling. It doesnt make her gay or bi. It was simply a curiosity of a sexual act. The reason she had a man there could have been because she either felt more comfortable with the man there or perhaps that was the full sexual experience she wanted to try.

I dont think there is a social push to be straight or gay in open society. Look at all the different sexual choices out there that may not be condoned but they are not looked apon as criminal. Swingers, homosexuals, incest, orgy,bi-sexual, just to name a few. In my opinion a person's sexual identity is based on what that person creates for themselves.

And everyone has fettishes. Yours that you mentioned is not necissarily a fettish. What attracts you to your partner? What are the specifics of what attracts you to those you find attractive? Those are fettishes. Some are extreme were others are simple. None are normal none are odd unless they go over the line in your tastes or moral ideals.

For example Jim has a attraction to younger girls. Now everyone that just read that will more than likely say that Jim is a child molestor! So with this example we see how society lables our sexual identity. In the past an adult man could have sexual relations with a younger girl and it was consented. With the laws of society today we see it as criminal and judge in that way. Another situation puts Jim in a relationship with a girl of sixteen were he is forty. The girl is a willing parcipiant in the relationship so it is not molestation anymore, it turns to stachatory rape. So technically aside from our personal beliefs on the situation and law views, this is a healthy relationship because both members are happy with it.

In my opinion we should only judge sexual practices for ourselves not for other people unless it is under the context of any kind of sexual abuse be it physical or mental.

Despite the lack of captialization and proper punctuation, that is brilliant.




Scruffy seconds.

Hmm...I would have imagined that children that would turn out gay would realise it later on in their life, around the same time straight children become interested in the opposite sex. Give or take a few years of actually coming out.

I wouldn't actually know, this is my only guesse. But if it helps, I remember asking one of my friend who is gay when he realised (it was a guy), he said he found out at the age of 11. Of all the girls I know whom are gay/bi claim to have realised at the age of 13.

This is true, but the problem is too many people find it their business to bash others whose sexuality may be different than their own.. If we all had this attitude as you mentioned here, there would no issue at all.

i think its fine if people are gay,they have every right to be homosexuals,not like they're going out killing people.
if my little brother turned out to be gay than hes gay,so what,hes still my brother regardless of his sexual preference

where are you getting your information from ? lol

it' funny stuff. wrong about the girls , but still funny.

most realise they feel different very early in life. I realised at 6. however I could not at the time tell you why or how. it just was. I realised at 13 -14 , when your hormones start to kick in...... most kids do. alot of people however don't come out till later in life. but if honest they will tell you they have always known ( most of them).

when do you realise your straight ? you dont . it just the attraction for girls or boys starts kicking in. same difference.

ROFL!!!

All the kids in my neighborhood got it on with each other when I was growing up -- boy-boy, boy-girl, circle jerk, etc. And 4/5 of them got married, few divorced, three lead a homosexual lifestyle, and several are artists. Are the guys who got married heterosexuals? That I don't know. But I do know that a couple of them (with children, etc.) hit up on me again, thirty years later. I think in the right condition, most people will swing both ways. It only takes a real, charismatic, sexy person to lead the way. The funny thing is: The majority of penis-hungry people, who cruise this known beach (close to my house), are "straight," family men. And the mall..., Saks is always 'treacherous' -- I've even seen a guy carrying knee pads (no kidding).

I went to the school with the same people for twleve years and I could tell some of them were 'different' in second or third grade...I wasn't sure what that was, but it was usually confirmed that they were gay by the sixth grade. I didn't care so I hung out with them as much as I did anyone else. As a matter of fact, I've been mistaken for lesbian by association on many occassions and I could care less. I usually have a good bit of fun with it!

The nephew that I practically raised is homosexual...pfft...

Interestingly, none of the girls in my neighborhood did it with each other. On the other hand, a very butch cousin (with a motorcycle to boot) brought her girlfriend to our house when I was eight or nine years old. You see, she was also living with us at that time while going through college. To cut a long story short, my dad kicked her out of the house instantly because of her "bad influence" on the girls, my three sisters. Nowadays, she's an engineer..., with a wife and two (baby) dogs.

We also thought that my sister would turn out a lesbian because she was such a jock all her life. Alas, she is more man crazy than Willie, the neighborhood "bride." 'She' always played the wifey role when we were growing up... And 'she' had multiple "husbands," in this little family affairs.

And yes, I know what you mean because when girls see me with underground-club drag-queen friends, they think I'm an exclusive "heel chaser." Frankly, I find them fun to be around with, and some are actually too pretty..., and very seductive.

If I go by my own personal experience, the three people I know well who are gay all had been molested as children.

I know that doesn't go for all gays--but I find the odds interesting.

I am on the fence on this issue. I know what my head tells me, but my life experiences say something else.

However, no matter how I feel about the issue of homosexuality and lesbianism, there is no excuse to abuse and treat our gay brothers and sisters like second class citizens. The are equally loved by God, too.

I've asked large groups of them about that, HowdyDo...the response I got...they looked at each other and laughed.

I was a jock, too..and that was one of the things that helped me get labeled sometimes, div.

Most homosexuals are a blast to be around, well the same precentage as anyone else. I don't know many drag-queens, but I have seen some that would put any woman to shame.

I remember when my brothers used to teased my sister and actually made her cry (many times). They stopped teasing when she went out with one of the most popular guys in her high school. She's married now of course, with children. Come to think of it, I've never heard her once comment on girls, etc. Just because she was very athletic with a strong presence, she got picked on by my brothers. High school and the body-conscious '70s saved her self-esteem, no doubt.

I also remember my brothers telling me to stop playing with Willie because I might catch his girliness, but it's okay for their buddies to get serviced by him... It's sad, but I'm sure it's still a reality today.

you must of had one weird neighborhood. None of the kids on my block ever got it on. then again I don't know what the boys did. I know the girls were pretty innocent.

while it's true most people are not 100% heterosexual or homosexual ( and there is more to it than just sex) most stick with one sex for thier life either way.

to be 100% hetero as a male would mean you couldn't get along with any other males at all. emotionally , socially , sexually , physically , and one more for the life of me I can never remember. that was over 20 years ago in sex ed. every way we relate to others. about 80% of the population would fall inbetween. more or less.

0- Exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual
1- Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2- Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3- Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4- Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5- Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6- Exclusively homosexual

http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/s...ks.html#General

I must admit, it was one horny neighborhood. To this day, sexual tension lingers in the air when I see my childhood friends. It's really funny and strange, at the same time, because I know most of them would like to get it on again..., but something holds them back, somehow. The curious thing is that my best friend's brother can't look me in the eye... He's been in jail, twice. And divorced. Go figure.

This doesn't really help predict whether one will be gay or not. Believe it or not..that kid may turn out to be straight...he could just like girl stuff. The other kid could turn out to be gay.



You really can't accurately predict whether someone will be gay or straight. The only problem with it seems to fall to religion. Mostly, though, Christianity. Not because I dislike the religion, but because it has a grip on one of the most powerful countries in the world. Funny how we were the country that fought for Civil and Human rights yet we can't just accept people that may be gay. Perhaps it isn't our fault, but religions fault. People that follow religion tend to break every doctrine and rule their is, yet they still follow this rule. Heh...the one thing the jackasses CAN fight for.

Does it just work for mice?

I can't imagine why a parent would be so concerned as to go to these lengths to determine whether or not their child is a homosexual, I certainly would not be.

Although I'm sure this information does say something about how much will is involved in such a "choice".

Several of your threads seem to have 'homosexuality' as their theme!, is there something you'd like to share with us?

Now that I have more time to elaborate...

Yes, there were few innocent girls, and those were the ones who stayed at home, didn't play with the others, or their brothers (who also played with us) kept their virginity intact by keeping them away from the rest of the gang... The brothers loved to play, however, as long as their baby sisters were not around. But, that's not always the case, and I could easily think of several incidents. Come to think of it, the girls I fooled around with even cried if I ignored them. You see, we had this game called "Shark Attack"...

Have you ever seen TO FORGET VENICE? If not, rent it.

Actually, I don't find this weird at all because this kind of thing is more common place that you think. Kids are naturally curious, especially if two or three of the the boys have big genitals. With this in mind, and the added older boys in the mix (to "corrupt" the young'uns), and a couple of neighbors' dads' porn reels..., sex is inevitable.

I also remember one mother who forbade her son from playing with me because she noticed his erection while he was putting suntan lotion on my back.

At any rate, labels (religious, sexual, racial) have nothing to do with children at "play." Many just follow the leader, the flow of heat, or what their boner is telling them (especially if they see a bigger genital to play with). Yes, there is penis envy among most guys. Little girls? I can't say what gets them going since I'm not one. You have to fill in the blanks on this. I could only say that the girls I played with when I was that age craved my attention, and they even cried for it. It's probably the biggest reason why I'm "such a great lover," so I've been told.

Wow... your neighborhood sounds... interesting to say the least... lol. To think of that happening today is almost impossibe, at least in my neighborhood.

I lived in one of our major cosmopolitan city at that time.

I think you CAN'T really determine who'll grow up gay! Oddly I've been hit on by alot of guys and females. Some of the guys that tried hitting on me I would have never guessed was homosexual. Some actually looked like the next masculine male, they were into sports and everything & yet they were gay! So I really can't think you can tell someone is gay just by looking at them or examining. What I find odd is most of the guys that hit on me were masculine & some actually had girlfriends. I guess I'm attractive to men and women lol.

I'm straight but I have nothing against gay people. I'm just so surprised at how many gay or at least Bi people are out there. For some reason I think there are alot more bisexual people out there than straight & gay. Just alot of the bi people say they're just straight to avoid ridicule. So alot of them just focus on the straight aspect of their sexuality while suppressing their homosexual side.

Exactly. I've met quite a number of married transsexuals in underground clubs and venues, and they have no interest in homosexual acts. They just like to "dress" up, partly because it's a big turn on. I love girls' panties and bras, but I don't get off wearing them. I like looking masculine since I am one, facial hair and all. The thing is: We wouldn't be talking about this "gay or not gay" issue at all if religion didn't complicate things. And yes, I agree with Lt Ripley that most people could swing both ways, if given the right chance. In the near future, most (relatively) educated people won't even blink, especially when gay marriage becomes old news.

Do you know that some gays believe that people should go back in the 'closet' because the sex is hotter, there is that danger element going on?

"We wouldn't be talking about this "gay or not gay" issue at all if religion didn't complicate things."

That may be true, but some people would still feel it is wrong. However, it is because of religion that it is being made such a big deal, and for religion to play a part in people's private lives - in a country that proclaims to have church and state separate - is beyond hypocritical: It is wrong. This is even more disturbing when put in the context of the military. It doesn't matter how many times I hear people say that we have progressed morally in past decades (even though I know we have) - but whenever I am reminded that oppressive laws such as DADT are still in place today, I can't help but think that those days of racism and sexism aren't very far behind us. Ironically, in ancient Rome, homosexual relationships were encouraged amoung soldiers to improve their stamina while today, it is condemned.

Some parents would rather have an unedjucated, unsuccessful child than one who is gay. It's almost funny how misplaced people's priorities can be when they're confronted with actual responsibility.

I respect that, as long as they don't resort to violence. But, I always have the choice to not buy into it. Thank God, I'm an arteest!




My cousin's a great example. And I felt very sad when my dad kicked her out of the house. I remember it to this day. But you know what, my dad is also a victim of his tight, Christian upbringing. Yes, it is a vicious cycle.

Exactly. Who cares? I love my child no matter what. What she chooses when she is older is up to her, it's not important to me.

I never understood why people get uptight on homosexuality!? I really don't go by the bible, I was raised to be a christian . I believe in a god, I really don't buy into everything in the bible. All it seems is a list full of fairy tales to control how we should act or feel. In some ways I feel religion has made things worse than help.. homosexuality is one of the examples!

One thing I don't get, it seems as if everyone gets uptight on Homosexuality as a sin but other people aren't as hard on other sins it seems. I have an older sister who is gay who I love with all my heart. Once my mother found out, she refused to speak to her & it's going on 4 years since they spoke which is sad. My mother wants the demons to be released out of her first! So she'll become straight again!!! My sister is extremely sad about it but it's nothing she can do to prove our mom otherwise.

Here's karma (pattern) for you: When my mom died, my dad remarried..., but now, my sister refuse to have any dealings with him. Sad, indeed. Unfortunately, some people use their freedom of choice to add more tension and pain in an already tensed environment. It's beyond me.

There are so many people now days who are trying to make "the perfect" baby. What ever happend to loving your child unconditionally?

Apparently, for some, loving one's child unconditionally is one GIANT burden.

For some to get so radical over something so trivial is just evil.

i cant believe this. SO what if your child is gay you still love them. I would love my kids.
Love the man not the action. In other words lov ethe person for who they are not what they do