at first i wasn't going to post this, but since it's been on my mind for a few years, and recently came back up in a family conversation, i figured i'd post it...

my girlfriend wants kids
my mom wants grandkids
i don't want any kids at all ever

i've thought about it for a while and i've decided that i really don't want kids...
kids really annoy me... adults annoy me too for the most part, but kids are different...

i KNOW my problem is that i don't like responsibility... actually i don't like being responsible for anything other than myself...
i had a pet scorpion (plan to get another) because it only costs 75 cents a week to keep it... and i only have to feed once if i buy enough crickets for 2 weeks...

my mom and girlfriend thinks it's selfish of me not to want to have kids and i think it's more selfish to have a kid...

life in general sux... maybe it didn't use to be this way, but it really sux when you think about it...

your born
you immediately feel pain when the doctor hits you
you get sick
you get in fights
you get hurt
you get older
you worry about bills
you worry about other people doing things that might harm you (driving for example)
you worry about your loved ones
you worry about death when you get older
you get your heart broken
you get betrayed by friends and family
you have to deal with racism/sexism
you have to worry about going to jail for breaking the law (fishing with 2 poles or just resting at a bus stop are jailable offenses in Nevada)

there are plenty more that i can list... but i hope you get the point...
so am i selfish for not wanting to put another human through all the above?
is it more selfish to want to put them through all that just so you can have the joy of a baby?

there have been times i wish i hadn't been born... mostly for those reasons... and i have said to myself that i would NEVER wish this upon anybody...
but my religious belief conflicts with my personal opinion... not about kids... but about life...
i believe there is a purpose and that those who believe are rewarded in the end... but sometimes, i'd just rather not being going through it at all, regardless of the purpose...

sometimes i sit and wonder what the point of all this is? it just seems like a waste not to have a point to all of this?
sometimes i get discouraged as a person in general because i don't understand the point of life at all...

is it more selfish to want to put a person through all of that?
or is it more selfish not to want to put a person through all of that?

I was nine years old when I decided I didn't want children, ever. People said I'd grow out of it, but I'm 37 now and I haven't changed at all. I don't believe we are all parents, I don't believe we all have to have children. I think having children should be based on a deep desire to have them, not a response to the pressure others place upon us to continue a family line.

I know my limitations. I'm an artist and I work the craziest of hours. If I want to get up and paint from four in the morning, for two days straight without stopping, then how would a baby ever fit into that? It would be selfish for me to have a child. Perhaps you feel the same, that you know your own limitations and personality well enough to know that you could not give a child what it needs.

It's not selfish if you do not want kid's. But you're partner might move on and find someone else if you wont give her what she wants if she really wants to have kid's.

First off, no such thing as selfish (in my opinion)

If someone tells you that you are selfish, that means that you have put your want/needs in front of them. Doesn't that make them selfish for wanting their needs first? I rest my case (remember my opinion)

Secondly I do not want children either, so I feel your pain. Do not do anything you do not want to do. No one lives your life but you, so do not let them impose their want/needs into your life. But be prepared for the consequences. Hope my bias view was helpful

If you really don't want kids, don't have them. If your girlfriend leaves you because of it... Well, that's her problem.
I don't think a girl is worth being forced to start a family you don't want and may not even be able to support.

I don't think its "selfish" its just self focused to not want to have kids.

Some people like to give, some people like to settle their pillows around themselves and make sure they are comfy.

Its not good or bad either way. Different styles of people is all.

The only thing I do think is selfish is you continuing a relationship with your girlfriend if you really do not want to have kids.

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong in the choice to have kids. What does matter is that you both want different things and if you REALLY don't want to have kids you should end it and move on.

Its very very selfish not to. Women have a limited amount of time to have kids and so its unfair to take up some of that time if you do not plan to stick around for the whole deal.

Final thing though, most people who I know who say they don't want to have kids usually change their minds. Not all but most.

So I've gone from being the kind of person who used to never push it at people to actually pushing it at people who are hemming and hawing about it.

Invitro is very expensive.

Yeah, that's very true. I told my husband when we first met that I didn't want kids... actually I told him on our second date ... I just didn't want him to get the wrong impression. Luckily he's no more interested in children than I am.

Just tell her your doing the greater good by keeping the world's population down.

I don' see the appeal of having kids...their loud, annoying, dumb, mischievous, use all your money, prevent you from doing a lot of things you wanted to do but now can't because you have a kid, and you have to train them like a dog.

Buy her a cat or something.

I agree it is probably best to get out of you're relation ship if you do not wish to have Kid's and you're partner does.






I was like that I said I would never have children.....and I now have two daughters lol. And I'm glad we had them.

If your girlfriend honestly can't accept that you don't want kids, then she isn't right with you. Neither of you should have to change for the other one (You having kids w/ her; her not having children with you).

I was told I was selfish by my great aunt once, because I said all throughout my 20's, I dont want kids as I wanted to live my life 1st...get my home, job sorted out, go on vacations, have fun while i can. I knew gary always wanted kids, but I convinced him to wait.

I was forever saying NEVR !! People used to say - never say never cuz one day your mind will change

One day i found myself looking more at babies, before I knew it, I wanted one of my own..........fell preggers in my early 30's with Becks..and now when I look back at it, I feel i should have done it a few year earlier...so that by now I could have had a second and left it at that...late babie...i now feel, that when Becks is in her late teens/ early 20's I am gonna look really old good gawd nooooooo


But still best decision I ever made to have a kid, and I would do it all over again.

I say - If you are still young, enjoy life while you still can...BUT don't leave it too late...I only wish I had of done it when i was like 26/27 IMO thats a good age

No one should hold it over your head to have kids, they are expencive and full time responcibility....................but at the same time, to witness a mirical, something you have made that came from you...to look up at you and smile cuz you are there is PRICELESS!!

I understand that completely. What helped me was the odds. Consider the infiniteness of the Universe. With Trillions of Galaxies each containing billions of star systems. What are the odds of Life in any form being found anywhere? For all of our searching of the stars we have not found even one place in the Universe where life exists. It is here..on Earth.
So: what are the odds? Of the life on Earth which is found in almost every square inch of the planet...what are the odds that you would be a mammal? Of all of the mammals what are the odds that you would be Human? We are totally unique in all the Universe. The point of life is not to become...the point of life is to be. Just be. Think positive..Be Positive. Of all the Humans on Earth...YOU...are unique. No one is like YOU.

Most people who don't want kids see kids as brats, annoying, etc,. Even though, if you eventually have one of your very own you certainly don't see them that way.. It feels as though it's the best thing that's ever happend to you.. imo.

If you guys can't agree on the kids thing, and both of you are convicted with your feelings on the matter, it's best to cut it, move on..

my gosh it sounds as if you do not want kids...selfish, naw you ought to be commended for your maturity and honesty....not everyone is cut out for kids......its a hell of a thing to ignore ....for all involved..

People do change in ways & feelings. I was actually in the process of getting myself fixed when my wife got pregnant. Now I want another one.

LUCKY FOR THE WORLD THAT YOUR PARENTS DIDNT FEEL THAT WAY.

Lucky for you and myself, as well.
The world is seriously overpopulated anyway. A few (million) non-parents won't hurt a thing.

IMO it would be more selfish if you had a child you didnt want. You have the right to a choice, so go with what you want.
I dont see hoe it is selfish that you dont want children because having something against your will to fulfil anothers want, makes that person selfish as stated before.

I know i was another "i dont want any", and now i cant wait to have a child! People change all the time, on all different subjects.
Whether you change or not, it shouldnt matter, because for you to be happy, you need to know and fulfil what YOU want first. How can you make someone happy if your not happy yourself?

And yes, bumble, thank goodness for our parents who wanted us and had us- but they obviously had the CHOICE to have children. My aunt and uncle have been happily married for over 20yrs, and they dont have any children because they dont want to and spent their time traveling the world and working. They actually seem to be the envy of most people- they live in the City (Sydney), own apartments all over the world, have multi passports, eat out every night, have everything they want and are HAPPY.
Fulfillness is the point of life IMO- as long as what you've got is what you want and it makes you happy and live happily- then Good, you have successed.

Dont cave into other peoples opinions because they think they are right and you are wrong. I had another Aunty (who is unmarried and no kids) try to dictact to me what i should do with my life after high school. ME- i didnt do what she wanted, because it wasnt what I WANTED. Now she doesnt talk to me and when i try to tell her about my job and how i got another role, she attempts to put me down-but i dont care because IM HAPPY!!!!

Do what you want to do!

You need antidepressants and a girlfriend who has the same priorities in life that you do. If your girlfriend wants kids, she should find someone else to be with who wants them. You can go spend life alone with your spiders.

If you don't have kids because they might interfere with your personal enjoyment of life, or your career, then you are being selfish. In fact, that's the very definition of selfishness.

It doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, since it is okay to be selfish at times, and arguably we have too high population growth in the whole world today period.

Unless my philosophies change, I don't really plan on ever having kids.

For me, there's firstly the ethical quagmire:
What if my kids are depressed all the time? What if they don't like their life?

Sure, this won't be the case most of the time, but I'd hate to take the chance of causing something like that. Although, a lot of legal processes are getting more difficult and complicated these days. I think the added pressure to "the system" that just keeps getting worse and worse is going to cause a lot more unhappiness, at least where I live.

Secondly, I am more of a free spirit, I know that having kids eventually would limit my own freedoms, and if I did have kids, I would hate myself for seeing them as anchors holding me down.

I think, as said, parenting is not for everyone. And, there's a lot of people who become parents without really thinking it through and realizing the responsibility and cost of raising children.

And to those who think that saying you don't want to have kids or saying kids are too difficult is hypocritical, since your parents had you; well.. the thing is, nobody really cares about not existing until they actually exist and know what non-existence is. If you exist, good on you. If you don't/never did, it's not like you do/would mind.

Yeah but if I wasn't born my parents wouldn't have had to have gone through all the troubles and make all the sacrifices they did.

Maybe lucky for me but pretty unlucky for them.

Good question. OTHER peoples kids annoy me too but my 3 are angels....
I couldn't imagine completing my life without having children. I also don't think your list of stuff is valid to not bring another child into the world, those are your worries, it might not be theirs. Seems like you see alot of negatives in life and I am a bit worried about you actually, maybe you should speak to a counsellor or someone who can help you through your feelings of despair at life. But I gotta agree with Guardsman Bass on this one, at the moment you seem to be very involved in yourself which is selfish and by having children when you only care about yourself or want to be responsible for yourself is not good, things like that can lead to child neglect and other problems and honestly if it's such an effort for you to look after a pet scorpion that only needs feeding once every 2 weeks, it's probably a good idea to not have children, just yet anyway. You are being unselfish if you think your child will suffer which I can see is how you are seeing it. But at the same time you are being selfish just by not wanting to have any other responsibility than yourself. It's a double edged sword really.
It's actually a very good thing that you have realised your selfishness as so many people have children and then can't handle the responsibility because believe me, kids need much, much more than feeding every 2 weeks.

It's not selfish not to want to have children, as long as both parties agree on it...Most women have that maternal instinct which stems from being a little girl, playing with her dolls...It's a big responsibility and if you feel that you cannot handle it, then don't do it...As the saying goes "you don't miss what you don't have"...If you have neices or nephews enjoy them...The choice my husband and I made when married was to have children...I was blessed with three children and seven grandchildren..But it was a choice we both made...

If you don't want kids, don't have them. There are way too many humans in the world and there's no reason that you should feel obligated to generate more. I think it's important to contribute to the future (probably some remnant of Puritan Work Ethic floating around in my subconscious mind) but there are many, many ways to do this. Why not share something that really interests you with people around you? Raising kids well is a huge responsibility that's incredibly time consuming. It's not a trivial social responsibility that you can fulfill on the side, while you're also pursuing your real interests.

I don't have kids and I personally think the attitude that EVERYONE should breed is animalistic and barbaric.

Tell your girlfriend that you don't want to be a parent. If having kids is central to her, your relationship will probably end. That's sad, but it's much healthier than going way off your path and building up a lot of resentment. There are many nice women around who don't have kids and eventually, you'll meet one of them. If your girlfriend's a great person, she deserves to go through life with a partner who has similar goals. You deserve this as well.

The idea that my mom wants grandkids and doesn't have them is hard for me, since I love my mom. But she raised a specific person - ME- and that person isn't parent material. Hopefully I'll make her understand that the good things I do in my life are a legacy from her and in this way her line is continuing.

Wow, for years I've never been able to verbalize this and now-- here it is in your post! I agree with you 100%.

I have never wanted children either. My mom ran an in home nursery for most of my life. I am wonderful with kids and know how to take care of them. I helped raise my ex boyfriend's daughter from 6 to 9 and was told that you'd never know I wasn't her real mom. HOWEVER, now that I am single again, I still don't want any of my own. My reasons probably seem selfish to other people, but I know myself and I run my life for me. YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME. I'm always up front with men that I date or get into relationships with. There is nothing wrong with not wanting children. Don't let someone talk you into it if you know without a doubt that it's not something you want.

I've seen first hand how resentful parents can be when they had children they didn't want. Nothing like seeing a child say "I love you" to their mommy and watching her NOT say it back. I've actually watched that scenario and then watched that same child grow up, have children of her own and actually repeat that same process with her kids. She was raised without love and affection and does not show much to her children either. I just want to slap people like that sometimes.

What a strange comment! Do you think that if his/her parents decided not to have kids his ghost would be hovering around for centuries, wailing because it didn't have a body?

If his parents didn't have kids he simply wouldn't exist and his parents lives would have taken a different (not necessarily bad) course.

Exactly. Statements like that always amaze me. Why some people who have children seem to think that those of us who decide not to are somehow doing a disservice to the world is beyond me.

Lucky for the WHOLE WORLD???? Really?? Oh boy, Phantum, you better be doing something GREAT AND ASTOUNDING!! That's quite a responsibility on your back.....

Hi Phantum, This is not meant to be disrespectful at all, but have you ever thought about taking antidepressants? The reason I mention this is, from what you stated I feel you may have depression and could benefit from anti-depressants.

As far as selfishness, I think it is far better for a person not to have a child if the child will be unwanted, unloved, and neglected. I feel people should have children who truly want and look forward to having children. I do know though that there are many people in this society that shouldn't have kids.

My youngest brother lives alone and said when he was younger that he never wanted to marry or have children. At first, I thought maybe it was just a personal choice and that he wasn't selfish, but I began to see other things in his life which suggested to me this is a really selfish man.

I know of another man who doesn't want kids. He told his girlfriend that he never had any money. He would insist they go dutch every time they went out to eat, he never bought her anything. Yet she is troubled time and time again, when he goes to her house with new CD's or video games.

I think our society is changing and becoming more fast paced. Many people are holding off until later in life to have children OR they opt not to have children at all or to adopt. Some people want to travel and pursue their dreams and there's nothing wrong with that, but from the things I've seen in other people, some that opt not to have children are selfish in other areas of their life.

I think it's possible that more people don't want kids these days AS A NATURAL RESPONSE to over-population. Mother Nature's way of restoring ecological balance.

Children are a great responisiblility , if one does not want any then they become a burden. if two ppl are in a relationship, that has one pulling one way and another pulling the other then theres includes no team work ..for a relationship to work peacefully then theres gotta be teamwork ..If she does not accept the fact that you do not want children then it would be better to chill on things before they get to where "your burden " with something you dont want...it would be selfish to her if she wants children and you do not to contiune to deprive her from them....maybe the selfishness isnt the children but within yourselves...with the both of you.Its selfish of her to push for something you do not want and its selfish of you to refrain her from something she wants..if that makes sense.

Don't let anyone pressure you to do anything you don't want to do no matter what it is. As long as you're not hurting anyone and you're being true to yourself you're not doing anything wrong.

I say get rid of the g/f and let her have kids with someone else and tell your mom nicely that you don't see yourself ever wanting kids, subject closed. Then live life how you want to live it. Make your karma good and you'll be just fine.

Sometimes you ask people why they have children. 99% will say it was an accident. Only about 1% are planned. I've never had the inclination to have children. I'm 34 and I still feel to immature to have kids, and I've been married twice! And I also think it's cruel to bring children into this world!

Adding my voice to the general consensus here...

Don't let social pressure force you to have kids if you don't want to.

Tell your girlfriend that you don't want kids. She has a right to know and her time to generate a family is more limited than yours.

Some of the things you write make it sound like you might be clinically depressed. Consider trying anti-depressants. If you don't like the results you can always stop taking them (they aren't physically addictive). You might find that some of your sadness is being triggered by a chemical imbalance rather than something intellectual or philosophical.

I don't think you're selfish.

I also decided at a very young age that I do not want children of my own. I love kids, I think they are fantastic and fascinating little creatures and I spend a lot of time with them. In fact my sister and her 4 year old daughter and 5 day old son are staying with me for the next few weeks and I love every second of it. But, I can give them back whenever I want to.

People tell me constantly how I would make an great mom and it's true I'm sure, but the idea just does not appeal to me. I am used to living the way I want, which is not exactly ideal for kids, and I have no desire to change the way things are because my life works for me. And fortunately, my boyfriend feels the same way, so we have no conflict when it comes to kids.

However, like someone else said, when you are with someone who does want to have babies and you definitely do not want babies, then it will eventually cause some problems.

lol... why do people ASSUME that when someone has a different view on things that they are depressed?
i'm more of a sociopath... impartial to ALMOST everything...

i'm not a glass half empty/glass half full type of person for the most part... it's just a half a glass of whatever...

and to add to that, i try not to put meds in my body at all... it screws you up... it screws up your immune system and sometimes the side effects are worse than what you have in the first place...

why do people think there is a psychological explanation for everything?

i'm far from depressed... far from sad... as a matter of fact, probably the happiest person on the planet...

i really don't even get mad too often... most of the time i think it's funny when people are mad at me...
and sometimes i have the urge to just piss people off for my own personal enjoyment... yeah it's a sick game, but i do it at times...
maybe they should make and anti a**hole pill... lol...

It's your life and you are entitled to live it as you see fit, each side of the argument is only considering their interests in this situation so one option is not more selfish than the other. Although, who cares if it's selfish? I certainly would not be concerned by any guilt as this is a major life style choice and should not be taken lightly, nor do I think one should be pressured into procreation by their partners or anyone else's will.

Children aren't for everyone.

Although you do have one circumstance on your side, if your girlfriend wants you to father her child it takes two to tango, however your girlfriend not getting pregnant does not have to necessarily be a two way decision.

well if you don't you are not obliged to help create any. ever. If you g/f wants a child she must find someone who wants the same. your mother must realise your life is yours to live, and you are not under any obligation to provide her with babies. p.s. doctors do not hit babies when they are born.

Join the club I dont want to have kids and i dont think its selfish. Imagine being "forced" to have a kid you just cant bring yourself around to love i think you would hurt the child more if you do have one.

If your mum/girlfriend dont like it tell them how you feel and if they cant except then thats their problem
its a life choice

I tell my mum over and over no kids from me.

she doesnt believe me she says ill have them

I doubt i will

and i hope i dont

for their sake

This is your business, not mine. But...I'd have to say that you're being selfish (NO OFFENSE.)

hey phantum,

I'm not writing because I dislike your opinion & think there's 'something wrong'. If you don't want kids, don't have kids. It's your decision and no one else's.

I wrote the anti-depressant stuf because in your initial post you wrote, "life in general sux... it really sux when you think about it... there have been times i wish i hadn't been born... ". I'm a clinical depressive myself and I used to feel like life in general sucked all the time. In turned out that PART of this was family chemistry (several of my relatives have committed suicide). Another part was social attitudes that I strongly disagreed with and philosophical stuff. Fixing the chemistry allowed me to focus on the other stuff, which I could then think about more clearly, and I figured out how to cut some of it out of my life (a big improvement).

SUMMARY: I don't think there's anything wrong with you or your attitudes. If you don't want kids, don't have them.
You wrote, "life in general sux". When I felt that way I adjusted my chemistry and... voila... only part of my life sucked.

I'll shut up now.

I don't think you're selfish. :/ I think you've made the right choice. But I agree with everyone on the matter.

I haven't decided yet. And I have the all of the time to think about it. Because I'm still young. But I have decided to adopt a child & see how things work out afterwards.

Well, all I'll say is ... Just do what makes you happy. It's your life....you're the one who has to live it.

lol... so let me get this straight... you still think parts of your life suck? so what exactly was the point of the pills?

First off, keep away from anti-depressants. Most people are put on them needlessly (people who bring up BS like: "OMG I DNT LYK MY JOB IM SO DEPRESED 2DAY!", when really they don't know the first thing and think depression is just the same as feeling down or having mild anxiety...). In many cases they create far more problems than they're ever able to solve. People should only ever take them as a last resort for anything. Otherwise they shouldn't even be taken in to consideration.

Thats a scary way to describe your self. For some people meds save their lives.

Well... an example that's not from my life. Say a person is married and works at a gas station. His marriage is good but he hates his job because his boss is mean and he hates the fact that people use so much more gas than they need to (pollution & all...). The person is also a clinical depressive (which is a bio-chemical thing that's different from the emotion of being sad).

Without the pills that person might be walking around in a gray cloud of frustration, sadness and anger. Actually, it's not just a cloud-- it's a FOG because it makes it hard to see the things around him. The way the fog cuts things out it also makes him feel isolated (read LONELY).

The person takes anti-depressants. It re-coordinates the chemical steps which happen in his head every time he thinks.

The fog lifts and suddenly he can see his life objectively. It's sort of like his brain was near-sighted and now it has glasses. He can see that his marriage is good, he loves someone who loves him, and he gets some joy out of that reality. He is no longer lost in a gray fog of depression. He can also see some other positive things, like __________ (fill in the blank. He likes where he lives? He has some good friends? Whatever).

He can also see his job situation clearly and-- even though he's now on anti-depressants, the job still sucks. The job still sucks because there are SPECIFIC REASONS WHY it sucks. He hates his boss. He hates the fact that the job contributes to pollution. Also, he realizes, the job is intensely boring. The pills aren't a brainless high, so things in his life that go against who he fundamentally is are still going to be bad. He isn't taking "happy pills" that turn him into a happy zombie.

Not thinking that his entire life sucks gives him strength and he can think about his job objectively. He can see that it's simply the wrong job for him. He can think clearly enough to see that the job is never going to get better. He initiates the process of getting a new job.

The pills didn't make things that were genuinely objectionable okay. They cleared up the "fog" so that the person could FIX things that weren't okay.


That is the point of the pills. They put people in a place were they can fix things that aren't okay.

I don't know whther phantum is a clinical depressive. But you don't either, so don't tell him to keep away from anti-depressants. What he needs is a trustworthy person to determine whether or not medication could help, as opposed to a rip-off doc who shoves pills down his throat, or a person off the street who doesn't understand psychochemistry. In my case, getting the right psychiatric medication was as effective as getting the right dental work. Immediately, obviously effective.

You aren't qualified to tell him whether or not he needs meds (unless, of course, you're a professional psychiatrist. Are you?) I'm not qualified either. You are very right to warn him that some people misuse anti-depressants and it would be bad if he started to misuse them. If he decides he wants to get more information, he needs to find a professional person he trusts. The best way to do this is asking friends.

NOTE TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS THEY MIGHT BE A CLINICAL DEPRESSIVE: It's a biochemical thing like diabetes or allergies. There's no reason to be embarrassed about it. I'm sure as hell not.