as you can probably tell, i'm having a venting session on the board because i'm frustrated about a few things in general...

for the last 2 years or so... i've realized that it's ok to question everything... ESPECIALLY what we are taught by school/church/parents/society

some of the questions come from human nature, some are really concerns, and some are just for the sake of invoking thought... you decide which is what...

1) what if i end up in hell regardless of what i do?

2) what if God is going to send EVERYONE to hell no matter what?

3) what if God is really evil and playing a trick on us all just because He likes to see us fighting and in disagreement?

4) what if everyone goes to heaven no matter what they've done?

5) what if heaven is completely boring?

6) what if heaven is unbelievably fun and you can do anything you can imagine?

7) what if reincarnation is real (i don't want to do this crap over again)?

8) how does it feel to die?

9) what really happens when you die permanently? (near death experiences are only near death... it's not permanent)

that's just a few... if anyone has anything to add, feel free to post your own or drop your opinion on some of mine...

Hi thaphantum,
Venting a lot today I see. Here's some more for your list.

10. What if men come to earth because heaven is not dangerous enough for them.

11. What if women follow them to try to keep them from blowing it up.

(hee hee)

Vee

Well, I can't tell you what it feels like to actually die, but I can tell you what it feels like to almost do it if that's any help. My whole system gave up on me... everything crashed... and I was sure I was on the way out. But it wasn't frightening. Being ill is frightening, but the thought of death wasn't. I felt very calm actually... it was everyone else who was running around like headless chickens and going into a flap.

As for all the what ifs... what if we all go to hell, etc.. well, none of us will know until it happens. All we can do in the meantime is our best. I work on the basis that this life is the only one we'll get (but I hope for more), so I make the most of what I've been given. I've found that accepting that there may be nothing beyond this existence is very calming and reassuring.

The first thing that popped into my head was that something somewhere must have been overlooked.


Some people are going to be very disappointed.


Sorry can't help you there. That is a question that would really challenge your pastor (and maybe tick him off too). I don't think any human can answer that question to your satisfaction.


Some people are going to be very disappointed.


Then it will probably be hell.


Then enjoy yourself.


I wouldn't worry about that too much. They say you don't remember.


I'm in no hurry to find out. You?


There is only one way to find out. Might as well leave it a mystery for now.


Hope that helped a little.

Then God cant be that nice.



We can have a nice barbecue.



Then when we pass on and do come across God at least we can take a shot at God even if we don't stand a chance.



Then it will be cramped.



We ask to go to hell.


We will become spoilt and pampered which is not good.



I hope not.



Tell you're GF her bum looks big....you will soon find out.



You then realize that maybe it was not such a good idea to tell you're GF that her bum looks big and curse chaoszerg for making you tell her.

you made me think of the lifesavers muffintop commercial i saw last night.

True that made this very same kind of thead lol

I think it's better then just staying somewhere for an eternity.

One of the question i noticed was - 8) how does it feel to die? - So many different answers for that one..a lot have died in sheer agony.........some have passed peacefully in their sleep...some dont feel it i can imagine..ie - shot in the head, you die quick..your body hasnt time to go into shock, let alone pain!! being hit by a bus/car..you die..you dont feel it...I was hit by a car, I didnt feel it either...i did feel it however next day.............like how they say - being hit so hard, you wont feel it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Those are valid questions to have when all you're going on is belief. Do you know you're girlfriend? Would you seriously have questions of whether she is the person you believe her to be after 2 years?

phantum, do you know God or do you believe in Him?

A lot of 'what ifs' there.

I live my life by my own standards. If God sees fit to punish me for living my own life and doing what i feel is right then so be it...I'll take the fire and brimstone. I'm not going to change or do what I feel is wrong just so I can be in the good graces of the big man upstairs.

i should have been more clear... i'm not talking about the manner in which you die...

but the actual part where you die...

both...

but just because you know someone, it doesn't stop you from wondering about certain things sometimes...

i KNOW my mom loves me... but i wonder if she would turn me in if i committed a crime?
i wonder if my best friend would betray our friendship for money?

you just never know... sometimes...

as far as the questsions about life and God... those are just "what if"

everyone that has ever lived or will ever lived, has had these thoughts. this is normal human thinking and shouldn't be restricted or stopped in any way. god gave us brains to learn and to grow. therefore we think and reflect upon life, experiences within life and our connection to a higher being. no one person is right in the greater collective of humanity but everyone is right in their own personal experience of being a human because its their life and no one can live it but them. almost in a way it makes me think that this life and journey is for me and me alone and maybe before i came in to being i accepted life and all the ups and downs that it came with: a premeditated choice. sorry for steering off topic a bit.

Why are you spending so much time wondering about what is going to happen when you die? Noone really knows the whole thruth, just our own personal beliefs. Start living for today and you'll have no worries.

Thaphantum, you are going to drive yourself crazy with too many - what if's? thinking about were you go when you die, will only depress you

The more people think about death, the more morbid and depressed they become.

As Irishgal says live for today

As for your mom, her love for you will NEVER die...it would be impossible for a mother to STOP loving her son...regardless what he has done

She can stop talking to you ect...but in her heart, she cant stop loving you.........its a given with all mothers...... (who are still sane) ...

Moms can disaprove of their kids behaviour, but thats out of love..............something you can understand MORE when you become a parent. Lets face it growing up as teenagers ect, we never really think of it as love, we just tend to act as though, we know it all, and when our mom's or dads punish us for something, we act as though, they are out to get us.............when deep down they aint

Think of this - If you committed a crime, and your mom turned a blind eye, you would think she just didn't give a rats a*se about you

just like if you stayed out ALL night long and never told her were you are, and came home later next day, and she did't so much as to ask you where in the blue hell were you all night, I was worried.................if she didn't say that, you would think she didn't care

Lots of people will betray you for money...money talks, but a real friend WONT...but see those are very few and far between

Question you need to ask yourself is -- Would YOU betray a friend for money??

If your Mom loves you and is a good woman, she better turn you in if you committed a crime. You know being a Christian is about accepting responsibility for your actions (sins), so doesn't this mean that if you committed a crime no one else should have to turn you in, you should turn yourself in, and ANYONE who helped you avoid taking responsibility for your actions would be doing more harm that good.

You're a 24 year old man. Take responsibility!

WAY TO GO JOE

Now thats the best advice ever I read on here lol....straight to the point and no side stepping..love it


heh IAMS you could hold your own UM talk show lol

what if......

what if he were a gang member where taking responsibility meant chestbeating about harming a rival gang, bout letting that other gang know what happens when his gang is crossed?

What you mean is "do as I expect of you". Reminds me of the respect and tolerance discussion.

If he were a gang member, and wanted to take responcibility..then the best option would be to get out of the gang PERIOD...thats a step in the right direction..then go look for a propper job and earn a living...at 24 yrs of age he should be doing that anyhoo...heck most guys at that age, no longer live with their folks

so you define being responsible as "do as I expect you to do", bm.

glad we have the definition sorted out then.

Hyper you used it as a hypothetical situation...so I did the same...whats the biggie??

If you have the sense you were born with, you would know, what the right thing is..

None of those questions you've posed matter, just live life justly and enjoy your hobbies. If God is good or evil, does it matter? He's God, unless we are actually his source of power, then we are at his will whether we like it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink


know what is right = parrot the teachings of what is right.

Did I say, "You're 24 years old, take responsibility in this way...?" No. I just said take responsibility.

yet, in your post you indicated the direction you considered responsible, iams. his mother turning him in, he turning himself in.

What if for him commiting the crime was the responsible thing to do? If bragging of his feat to fellow gang members occured, he would also be acting responsibly (wrt the gang).



being responsible is not the same as behaving according to your rules.

Seriously? He would be acting responsibly within the gang? and that is equal to being responsible with all of society? Man, moral relativism is the way to live.

That's a whole other thread Hyper...we don't want to go down that road here I think.

As a matter of fact...someone make a "doing the right thing" thread so we can discuss societies role as well as religions in the realm of "right and wrong".

it is the way life runs.

i bet you have watched the news and seen some story about a mother protecting her criminal child from the authorities and you thinking "she needs to act responsibly" (to you, meaning turn him in) where for her being responsible is first to her child, and protecting him/her.

He may be being responsible to his family. If that's his best way to provide for his family, why wouldn't he want to do it? Because he should care about other people? who exactly was caring about him while he and his family were living a life of poverty?

I think that's his point Iams...right and wrong is indeed relative. You of course were talking about doing the "right thing" within the constraints of the society that you (and many people on this site) live in.

this is specifically meant for you, since you believe in the Bible...

do you take responsibility EVERYTIME you do somthing wrong?

just wondering...

by the way, i didn't commit a crime... but what about people minding their own business?
don't most parents raise their kids to "stay out of grown folks business?"

so why when we get older is it ok to stick our nose in everyone elses business?

when Moses killed the Egyptian... God didn't tell him to turn himself in...
Aaron (Moses' brother) never turned him in or told him to turn himself in...

so where exactly as a CHRISTIAN are you getting the idea that a "good" person should turn someone else in?
what if you only THINK they did a crime, but the evidence doesn't point to that? isn't that bringing false witness against someone? that is forbidden in the Bible... so then by trying to be a "good" person, one can indeed be doing bad by falsely accusing someone... regardless if it's on purpose or not...

i may be wrong, turning in your brother/sister/father/mother/etc... is not mentioned in the Bible... nor was it practiced...

and ultimately, aren't we only responsible to God for our actions? so who's business is it what is going on between me and my Creator?

the problem about being a SNITCH is that as a snitch, you have to be willing to accept those consequences also...

so if you REALLY love someone, suggesting something is probably better than taking an action for them that may or may not be in either person's best interest...

now for a general question... if your MOTHER lied on her taxes... would you turn her in to the IRS? if not... based on your words... you really don't love her if you don't get her put in jail...

just wondering... would you suggest that i join a government sponsorsed gang... like the police?

lets see... they have initiation...
they jump people...
they harrass innocent people...
they beat innocent people...
in a lot of cases have out right robbed people...
they make threats...
they shoot people...

the only difference is that they are told by society, that because they have a shiny badge that they are automatically in the right...
if we are talking about responsibility... should we be able to press charges on cops that use force to arrest the innocent? after all, by law, that is assault...
or an event like the Rodney King beating... why aren't those cops in jail?

or what about the judge that doesn't allow evidence that PROVES a person innocent? shouldn't they be held responsible for their actions?

should there be multiple sets of standards or just certain standards for certain people?

based on what you said... people should turn you in if you go 1 mile over the speed limit because you ARE breaking the law if you go over the LIMIT at all...

Now, what's legal and what's moral are two completely different things. If your mother lied on taxes out of greed than turning her in may be the right thing to do.

Follow less the words in the book but what you know to be right. you know that criminals, those who are out there killing, stealing(out of greed and not out of necessity), and raping should be turned in.



The police are out there to protect and serve the innocent. some don't do there jobs, but that is what they are supposed to do. Gangs are only out for themselves, they protect and serve no one but their own gang members and follow their gang leaders agenda. Gangs are street corporations , they want more for themselves and less for everyone else. The main difference between a gang and a corporation is that the corporation doesn't use violence. they still manipulate and use immoral tactics, however. Outsourcing jobs, paying illegal immigrants, firing people to avoid paying pension, how can anyone argue these are moral things to do?

They're equivalent to gang crimes as far as I see it.

Unfortunately no, I'm far from being perfect, and like to get away with stuff just as much as the next guy.

If you live in her house, you live by her rules and you are also subject to her supervision, right? Additionally, some rules just don't seem to apply to parents.

When Moses killed the Egyptian he was not listening to God, remember he didn't run into the burning Bush until years later. Maybe God was telling him to turn himself in and he wasn't listening.

Well, let's see.. Are we, as Christians supposed to lie? No. Are we supposed to confess to God? Yes. Are we supposed to be good witnesses of Christ's love and the truth of His message? Yes, which would include turning yourself in if you had committed a crime.

Obeying the law is mentioned in the Bible and not turning someone in who you know committed a crime makes you an accomplice after the fact, which is breaking the law. So, if you had committed a crime and your Mom found out about it and didn't tun you in, you just turned her into a criminal too.
It's no one's business what is going on between you and your Creator, but it is every citizens business to insure that criminals are brought to justice.

So, if you had committed a crime and your Mom found out about it and told you to turn yourself in, would you do it, or would you wait for her to turn you in, or would you turn her into an accomplice?


I would remind her that she is violating the law, and tell her she is not trusting God by doing so, and give her the opportunity to correct her actions, frankly, I'm not sure I would then move to turn her in, but I would certainly lose respect for her and for myself.

The problem with Law is man creates the law. How can we trust that law's will have the best interest of everyone instead of what's best for the lawmakers and their friends. Why wouldn't an immoral man logically see that if they can get in control of the law, they could decide what's legal or illegal in a society?


That's why you don't follow a law if it doesn't make sense to follow it. Always follow your moral conscience, everyone has a sense of what's right and wrong. Drop the need to own luxuries, be happy with what you have.

Bah. Now you're letting another side of society rule your mind.

The police are not a government sponsored gang. True, some are criminals. Just like some religious leaders are criminals. Jesus was too if I recall...

Rodney King is a great rallying cry for oppressed innocent minorities.
He was pulled over for DUI. He was drunk and on PCP. He refused to comply with the officers trying to administer a field sobriety test. He was violent. After being tazed, he politely asked the female officer on the scene for some oral gratification, indicating how impressed he was with being tazed. He needed an ass beating.

He then proved the point further by going out and getting ANOTHER DUI.

He's as much a role model as Marion Barry.

The point is, you should do what YOU know is the right thing to do. If snitching on the local crack-dealer is the right thing, DO IT!
If turning in your brother because he robbed a liquor store and killed someone is the RIGHT thing, then DO IT!

Life is rarely that cut and dry, but you get the point, right?

Why does it matter "what if"? Just enjoy life as it is, without having any presumptions of what there might be afterwards.

If you get to go to heaven and it's great, that's a bonus. If heaven's boring or you're gonna go to hell no matter what, then at least you lived a great life.

I'd only suggest he do those things when those who do assist the police can be adaquately protected, and that the criminals who are committing those crimes can be reformed.

I wouldn't want him snitching on a crack-dealer if the crack-dealer ends up with a light sentence and knows who ratted him out. it won't be long before the snitch ends up dead or injured. There needs to be reform of the person dealing crack, an opportunity for him to get an honest job, and counseling so he knows what he's doing is immoral and that any thoughts of retribution towards the "snitch" are wrong.

I also wouldn't tell him to snitch out his brother if his brother is remorseful over his actions. if his intent wasn't to murder and he is seeking forgiveness, jail time is not necessary. there shouldn't be an eye for an eye mentality with crime. Reform of the criminal should be the ultimate goal. If that can happen without jail time then he should be forgiven and not punished.

You do know that hyper just made up the hypothetical issue with the gang thing right??

Do you think that I MUST believe that all cops are sweet and such angles?? that there is no such thing as a bent cop?? ehh?? if you believe that, you are sadly mistaken lol

A judge that doesnt allow evience...should be the one put on trial

you mentioned speed limits - going one or even 5 miles over...who the heck can tell??

Let me tell you something...the best way to avoid cops...judges and all that stres...is to stay clear of trouble PERIOD

and who the heck is Rodney King???

You don't wanna know...

Ok then..I'll Google it lol

Ok just did

so, if the police pull you over, gang up on you, taze you and beat you... you wouldn't fight back?

that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard... just cause someone has a badge doesn't give them a right to do whatever they want and expect people to just accept it...

if you watch the video... the police assaulted him... so IMO he had every right to fight back...

since it was brought up... why exactly is crack illegal? or marijuana, etc?

booze, ciggarettes, gambling, etc... are all legal and screw up people's lives just as much...

so if we are talking about morales... shouldn't we try to do something to stop all the above listed?

what makes drugs any different? do we only base right and wrong by what law makers determine to be right and wrong?

in amsterdam, weed is legal to smoke... but it's not legal in some parts of america... is it right or wrong?
or do we just base right and wrong on personal opinion?

if law makers decides it's illegal to have personal opinion... do you then turn in your neighbor if you know they have opinions?

where exactly is the line drawn?

As a Christian you should be able to determine what is right and wrong by your conscience and the guidance of the Holy Spirit in your life, of course, you can also choose to ignore this guidance and do as you please.

Why are you asking if these things are legal or illegal and why?

I'm starting to get the idea that you're trying to justify some activity you are engaging in that you know (through your conscience and the Holy Spirit) to be wrong, is that what's going on in your life right now?

It probably feels a lot like when you faint.

Except you never come to.

It is so interesting to just sit here and read all these different opions about one mans life. Almost everyone I know questions everything that thier parents teach them. It is very healthy to be courious and have the "why" questions but if one person is questioning so much about everything then I would sugest going to see a Priest. You know in your heart what is wrong and what is right. Unfortunatlly we all make alot of mistakes in life, as long as we learn from them that is all that truely matters. Your mother loves you uncondionally as I am sure you love her.