Atheist books overtaking Christian titles in best-sellers lists


The Association of American Publishers (AAP), the national trade association of the U.S. book publishing industry, recently released its annual estimate of total book sales in the United States, and according to its findings, religious books had a “difficult year.” The report, which reveals sales from 2006, marked a sharp 10.2 percent drop in religious books sales compared to the previous twelve months. The trend was one of the biggest decreases among all the book categories reported on by AAP. According to AAP, the drop is not critical, however, since “compound growth is still strong at 7.5 percent per year.”

Coincidently alongside the sag in sales of religious books has been a rapid interest in atheist books over the past months. Books that had not sold that well in the past are now beginning to turn into purchases. According to some critics, people in the United States are starting to resent the role religion has played in society.

“There is something like a change in the Zeitgeist,” explained Christopher Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, in the Associated Press. “There are a lot of people, in this country in particular, who are fed up with endless lectures by bogus clerics and endless bullying.”

Some Christians, however, say they see the rise in atheist literature as only a reaction to the rise of religious influence. Christianity is gaining more strength, with several victories gained throughout the year. “It sort of dawned on the secular establishment that they might lose here,” explained the Rev. Douglas Wilson, author of Letter from a Christian Citizen, in a debate on ChristianityToday.com. “All of this is happening precisely because there's a significant force that they have to deal with.”

With the growth in the number of anti-religion books being sold, more are expected to come on to the market. (Source)

I have plenty of doubt that in this so-called "Information Age", Christianity would be getting stronger.
...
If it weren't for the internet, I'd still believe in Sylvia Browne, Miss Cleo, and that I have to pray every night for the safety of my family, soul and being.
God Bless the Internet!!

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that, at the very least, the sudden realization by Americans post-September 11 that there is a strong force - militant Islam - frequently opposing them has stirred the curiousity of some Americans in at least some questioning.

or it could be that ppl are getting smarter

and have there heads in the present and not the midevil past

Is it just me or is anyone else kinda uncomfortable with folks talking about this as if it is a war?

Everyone has already read all the Christian books and any new ones aren't going to be much different...so they moved on to Atheist books. When they get through all the Atheist books they will go back to reading Harry Potter.

Unless he has been banned.

Well is it any wonder. You only have to watch the U.S. evangelists on t.v.
I saw an evangelical program not long ago where three perfectly manicured middle aged women preachers actually stated the the reason all those people died in the tsunami in sri lanka was because of their past sins & it was gods punishment. If only i was in the studio with an uzi.

If only it were true.

Ah, but it may be observed that many of the far right christian rhetoric would describe it as just that. A war. A war against the godless, a war against the deviants (gays), a war against the loss of "American biblical values", etc... So much so, that this sectarian divisive zeal that exists in America, has been given a name by the media: The Christian Taliban. And they are ever bit as serious, as the other kind in the name of islam. Article When they say, one nation under god, they mean to speak for her people also. Whether they agree or not. Because in the eyes of this lot, it's just a matter of time before they're converted, or destroyed. And to think, jesus was a liberal.

True Christianity and Christians in their purest form is hard to come by. You think because these evangelicals, Bush and the far right say they are Christian they really are? Real Christians put God and fellow man above themselves, not money and other peoples blood. It goes the other way too! People say they're atheist to fit in, when deep inside they know beyond a shadow of a doubt they can't believe the scientific evidence put forth by Atheist or evolution. Thats why there are so many ex-atheist compared to ex-theist. Man is not as smart as we think we are, and all it will take is a virus like AIDS to wipe us all out. We can't even cure a common cold! God is the way to go not mankind.


"To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree," (Charles Darwin, Origin of Species).

The reason the cold is so common is our immune system is susceptible to upper respiratory viral infection. Given the nature of virus, I think it's an excellent analogy you used, with respect to god and religions. One, and it's faithful, seek to rule the world that they often believe is fit only for one faith to reign supreme. So each advertises itself, in it's own way, so as to gain more believers and as such, more populace faithful, one generation after the other.

So, when I read you say that last bit, I would ask, after thousands of years of god stuff, if you believe god is the way and not mankind. What exactly would you say god has done for mankind lately!?

In all the worlds places that suffer in the name of such a beings people, unleashing viciousness so as to impart an agenda that seeks control in that invisible beings name, amid the prayers asking for relief from the terror, that is saying in it's zeal that god is the way, what exactly has god done for mankind?! Besides , in the context of todays world view, exactly what is related to his vicious intolerant nature, in the old testament.

thanks...Hes another perfect example ....now I see why everybody just lets you beat yourself! .....B

yep He's a WINNER!

Christianity is not an aggressive religion like the Catholics portrayed it. In true Christianity there is no convert or die agenda. You either accept it or reject it. People have always mis-portrayed all religions and institutions from the beginning of time, its called corruption. Before Christ did come along the Old Testament was gruesome, but mankind was worse. If you were God in those days and gave man a free will and they chose always to butcher and rape each other what would you do! Man didn't have the Grace that was given to them in the New Testament back then, so they were ruthless. When God tells you in Revelations that the Earth will once more be like the days of old you know he will destroy it again. This is the way he works and thats the price of free will. We kill ourselves and each other, and this is the only route man chooses.

God gives people hope and thats what he gives me. Humanity gives me nothing but heartache. Corporations and Governments that kill innocents by poisons and war in the name of money and power is mankind's way and always will be.

I'm certain that if Jesus were alive today he'd be a liberal, much to the chagrin of people like Ann Coulter. God on the other hand is a hard assed republican if there ever was one.



To fit in? There are far more theists than atheists, why would you say you dont believe in god to fit in when theres more people that disagree than agree with you?



Really? I would say it's the other way around.



The common cold isn't fatal in most cases so there's no need to cure it.



Here's the full quote:
"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree. When it was first said that the sun stood still and the world turned round, the common sense of mankind declared the doctrine false; but the old saying of Vox populi, vox Dei, as every philosopher knows, cannot be trusted in science. Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist, each grade being useful to its possessor, as is certain the case; if further, the eye ever varies and the variations be inherited, as is likewise certainly the case; and if such variations should be useful to any animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, should not be considered as subversive of the theory. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself originated; but I may remark that, as some of the lowest organisms in which nerves cannot be detected, are capable of perceiving light, it does not seem impossible that certain sensitive elements in their sarcode should become aggregated and developed into nerves, endowed with this special sensibility."

Dont take quotes out of context.



Thats absolutely not true. Morals weren't invented by Jesus.

ga....

anyone with a shred of ability to think honestly, christian or not, can tell that this is wishfull thinking...

Why are they ALWAYS so BUTT UGLY and in such poor shape?

Aye to that! Research made possible by the internet has confirmed my suspicions of such titles as "The Holy Bible", "Most Haunted", and, of course; "The Montel Williams Show"





Gee I don't know, possibly because you specifically targeted one in a pool of hundreds?

No he is an example of the hundreds sampled....most of witch are from her posts....NO targeting needed ....I bet you fall into that pool as well don't ya sport?







halfhandshuffle:Slayer - Jihad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv3TudB5J10

What pool, if I may ask?







oneupcopycatshuffle: Phantasmagoria - 'Variant Jihad' (live)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmuK5G3l4Xc

No, I don't fall into that pool. Or at least I don't remember publishing any books

Aww Barek..tsk tsk, don't insult yourself like that...that's what we are here for

To fit in? There are far more theists than atheists, why would you say you dont believe in god to fit in when theres more people that disagree than agree with you? Really? I would say it's the other way around. It's always been that way. There are people who will say their a Christian to someone then say their not to someone else and vise versa for atheist. People dont' have guts anymore and tend to flow with the crowd their with and will be anything that crowd wants them to be. I'm a Bible reader, so I will trust it's content when I say God calls a natural man rebellious. Atheism is growing (in my opinion) because men think they have the answers to all of humanities problems and because of mans rebellious soul.

The common cold isn't fatal in most cases so there's no need to cure it. Most cases? It would really suck to die in this day and age of something people died of centuries ago.

Here's the full quote:
"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree. When it was first said that the sun stood still and the world turned round, the common sense of mankind declared the doctrine false; but the old saying of Vox populi, vox Dei, as every philosopher knows, cannot be trusted in science. Reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a simple and imperfect eye to one complex and perfect can be shown to exist, each grade being useful to its possessor, as is certain the case; if further, the eye ever varies and the variations be inherited, as is likewise certainly the case; and if such variations should be useful to any animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, should not be considered as subversive of the theory. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself originated; but I may remark that, as some of the lowest organisms in which nerves cannot be detected, are capable of perceiving light, it does not seem impossible that certain sensitive elements in their sarcode should become aggregated and developed into nerves, endowed with this special sensibility."
Dont take quotes out of context. What possible effect did this have on the quote on my post except intensify it. His explanation isn't very good on the eyeball, surely you must see this. As a matter of fact no one to this day has a good explanation

Thats absolutely not true. Morals weren't invented by Jesus.But Grace and Salvation was. Morals are just standards and guidelines that civilizations run by, they could actually be bad or good.

Is there a contest? What does the winner get?

First, so as to clarify the above quote/statement. To whom are you asking the initial question?! (To fit in?) For , in reviewing page 1 of this thread, you are the only one that made such mention as "to fit in". (People say they're atheist to fit in, when deep inside they know beyond a shadow of a doubt they can't believe the scientific evidence put forth by Atheist or evolution.)




Atheism comes before theism, actually. There is no god known , in the human psyche, until the idea is implanted there by others claiming it is so. People are taught to have faith, it is not innate.

And Atheism is growing, perhaps it may be observed, because man made religions and god ideology, simply aren't working for many people now days. People watch the news, as they are allowed what with censorship such that it is on the real facts, as opposed to that which makes the story that fits the bill to make people believe the propaganda that we're winning this war, (as in the U.S.) or that "They hate us for our freedom", while here at home our freedoms are fleeting for the cause of keeping us safe from them that wish to make us unsafe, for having them.

Prayers, in Darfur , are unanswered. Watch a baby take a bullet and see for yourself. Starvation racks Somalia, despite the faith that jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world. This is exampled in the campaign of "ethnic cleansing" clearly. AIDS/HIV is pandemic in Africa, and yet gods emissaries, in the guise of the catholic church that has been complicit in supporting child rapists for centuries, says birth control, and condoms, abortion, are against gods will. Ergo, imparting the message that disease from sexually transmitted disease, is not.

For all the prayers that ring to heaven, it may be said, people are noticing there's no one home to take the call. Else, we wouldn't have the obscenity, offered in all seriousness, called: "Holy War".
So when you say Theists outnumber Atheists on this planet, that actually isn't wholly true. Everyone is born an Atheist. That they become theists, is because they were taught to be so, and accepted myth as true.


With every respect, I dare say people are dying today of diseases they thought had been obliterated, thanks to medical science, 100 years ago. Smallpox, for example, is back and with a vengeance. And just when we thought Polio was all but eradicated, it's resurged. Particularly in India. A country wherein the native religious climate is a hotbed, because of christian missionaries trying to effect policy that overcomes the natives Hindu faith. So while it might really suck to die of something, in this day and age, that we thought all but curable after a century of evolution in medicine, it happens, because one is only as healthy as their immune system is strong.





That would imply grace and salvation did not exist before jesus. And , in point of fact, jesus did not say he was the messenger of grace and salvation for all people, but rather that he had come to save only those for which his words imparting the opportunity to receive gods grace, after salvation, were meant. Luke 8:10. And of course morality is not universal. One mans morality is another mans vice, as they say. And if one believes religion instills morals, then what does it say of that standard of morality, for those religious that have committed immoral acts, in the name of furthering the faith!?

..tsk tsk BM....
Mr Halfhand is the TOTAL package ladies.....YES I was blessed .....My you are HONING those zingers dear! ......B









halfhandshuffle:Sepultura - Refuse/Resist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHGlGWEKkhI

Grace and Salvation didn't exist before Jesus, and yes you do have to believe to get it.
I want you to remember that if there were a bunch of murdering atheist running around killing people, I still have enough respect for atheist not to associate them as murderers because of these people. I'm sure there are plenty of atheists that do things wrong! Your problem is you don't look at people as individuals just groups.

After reading some of your posts thats hardly a suprise!......









halfhandshuffle:Korn - Right Now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661UmezK3JI...ted&search=

I would wonder, at the last thing you said to me in this reply, relative to this , which begins your thought on the matter of god and faith: Your problem is you don't look at people as individuals just groups.
Because you just made a statement about the human community in it's entirety. No, "Some people are gutless..." Not, "I've found many to be gutless when it ...." But rather, "People are gutless when it comes to what they really believe."
Does it not take guts to profess one thing, and then become the hypocrite, later!? Because , if that occurs, who is best aware , than ones self?!



You are speaking to someone that knows all gods were made by man. The construct of a higher power, invested in our policing, to it's will, to affect pleasure and approval, for reward after living is done. A construct, across all faiths, that holds one thing in common. Homocentricity. All problems, all grace, all salvation, in my world, is the responsibility of humanity. We pray for salvation from ourselves.


"Your problem is you don't look at people as individuals just groups." I dare say the catholics I know would refute your claim, whole heartedly. And while I do not accept there is a god, as man claims such to exist, I dare say if it is able to hate, given it's station, it's no better than the worst of us. For the creator of all that exists, omniscient and omnipresent in and of it's creation, to hold that emotion which is born of fear, just affirms, at least for me, that god is indeed man made. Perhaps it suits because to imagine something so powerful it can drown the world, hates, it makes one feel beholding not to tick it off. So that will to please it, rather than oppose it, makes the fear come alive in those that may then see god, as something capable of hating them. And if they know what hate feels like, that can be quite intimidating indeed. Who then can say, if they believe in a god that hates, that they do not fear a hateful god!?



This is where you have your faith, because someone along the line of your life told you there was a jesus and you believed them.

"The keys of hell and the guarantee of salvation were in the hands of the goddess, and the initiation ceremony itself a kind of voluntary death and salvation through divine grace." Apuleius, Metamorphosis, Book 11, 21

"We must ever maintain a real belief in the ancient and sacred stories, which reveal that our soul is immortal, and has judges, and pays the utmost penalties whenever a man is rid of the body." Plato



I want you to remember what I noticed about your speaking about people in groups, rather than as individuals. And I'll tell you that when I speak on these topics of religion and skepticism, I realize that individuals make that group what it is, and as such that's why the adjectives come into play. Thus, "Many christians" or "Some muslims", do not imply a blanket criticism of all christians, or all muslims, nor all membership of any religion.

When someone says they are a member of a religion, they are joining a sectarian institution that has a history to each sect beneath that whole umbrella called, religion. So while someone in Tennessee calling themselves a christian today, may not think it right to burn heretics at the stake, there are those that did, in the name of the faith they hold today. The history is what makes the present livable. So , in matters of christianity, for example, it is the worlds predominant faith, having the most membership of any other in the world, for a reason. Because at one time and even as today, one's allegiance to their christian faith precluded them giving any quarter to any other, as having the right to say it is the one true path to god. And when one faith makes that statement, then those that hold faith in that religion saying as much, say it too.

So it doesn't take the omission of an adjective, to implicate all of christendom, in arrogance. For that is what it is, you know. When a faith just over 2000 years of age, that borrowed the beginning of gods breath, from the jews, says it is the one and only true religion and way back to the creator of us all, it will stand subject to criticism for being so bold. In a world that has lived with faith in god/dess, for far longer. And as such, has their right to defend, each faith that exists and for all those centuries before the coming of the christ, the worlds people lived their faith wrongly.
The problem with christianity is it doesn't look at people as individuals, just as in groups, worthy of being converted to one way of thinking about something as awesome as god.

BORING!













... so agonizingly dull...who cares....

About the flu thing, it is my understanding that the common cold is a virus and there is no cure because viruses are not considered living. They dont meet the criteria to be considered 'living' so therefor cannot be killed. Atleast thats how I remember things, I may be wrong.

Viruses are very much alive.

You slay me...
You're right though, same game, a few different players. I won't even comment on the people already talking in absolutes..."I know there is a God..." "I know there is no God..."
SOS as they say...

I can tell why Atheist titles out sell christian ones, if the two of you are any example of all that some christians can find to say! Harassment, as if thats going to change a thing in people deciding to have a conversation you don't approve. Maturity would say you stay out if you disapprove the topic , while your flaming consistency is truly what is boring. Maybe it's just that you can't keep up with decent conversation. So this then becomes your hobby. How sad for you.

Meanwhile I'll request you keep to the rules of the forum. And I'll hope a moderator does their job, if you don't.

yep ....thats because it's arguing for the sake of arguing...some folks just thrive on contraversey....I usually can spot a weakness in these posts(when I skim them) just at a cursory glance....PLEASE TELL ME NOBODY THINKS I ACTUALLY READ THIS DRECK! .....

edit : help mods!.... I keep losing!



halfhandshuffle:Judas Priest - Painkiller(Live in London)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcIgOFVivsQ...ted&search=

Seriously, posting this kind of response is little more than trolling. If you don't have anything constructive to contribute to a topic then don't post in it, most of your posts in this thread are either inflammatory or completely unrelated to what is being discussed.

Lets keep this thread civil and on topic please.

barek strikes again

Is trolling any worse than baiting? Just wondered if there was a sliding scale to go by. It's not like I intentionally post and create inflammatory threads.





The above still stands, and is relevant in that this is just another attempt to belittle, minimize,vilify, etc. There is no point to it. And GW...please don't assign me a religion. I'll decide that, thanks.

We deal with trolling and flamebaiting on a case by case basis. It all depends on the circumstances and the severity of what has been said.

Nor do I. So if you don't wish someone to assign a religion to you, please don't assign a motive to someone posting a thread, so that you may then claim to be justified in your flaming retorts.

This article in the OT is news. I didn't make the news, I posted it here for peoples consideration of what has been published as news for an consumer public far greater than those that claim to take offense here, because they simply think their verbal assaults will make the news not to exist. And if it bothers you that people, living a personal life, make statements that reflect that, as in for me I know there is no god, that's a personal issue for you and you alone.

This is the skeptics forum. If someone is devout and believes they should not have to read of people that don't agree with that theme, then this is not the place to be. Because the mere title of the forum alone, says as much. Spirituality and skepticism. So it is patently absurd that someone would take issue that skeptics speak in a forum that invites just such dialog. What flaming bullies do, when they enter threads like this, is show they don't understand that and think they'll change the theme of the thread, if they're just tolerated enough to get rude and ignorant in the name of proving they are intolerant of intolerance. When really what they're saying, is they're intolerant of anyone that dares not to think inside the box, that likes to imagine it has dominion in these forums, even if it has to get rude in print, to effect it. And that doesn't show how religious one is, that shows how insecure they are.

Of course every story has two sides, so I thought I'd share that here as well.




Report: Religious Books Had a 'Difficult Year'
By Kevin Jackson
Christian Post Reporter


The Association of American Publishers (AAP), the national trade association of the U.S. book publishing industry, recently released its annual estimate of total book sales in the United States, and according to its findings, religious books had a “difficult year.”

The report, which reveals sales from 2006, marked a sharp 10.2 percent drop in religious books sales compared to the previous twelve months. The trend was one of the biggest decreases among all the book categories reported on by AAP.

According to AAP, the drop is not critical, however, since “compound growth is still strong at 7.5 percent per year.”

Coincidently alongside the sag in sales of religious books has been a rapid interest in atheist books over the past months. Books that had not sold that well in the past are now beginning to turn into purchases.

According to some critics, people in the United States are starting to resent the role religion has played in society.

"There is something like a change in the Zeitgeist," explained Christopher Hitchens, author of God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, in the Associated Press. "There are a lot of people, in this country in particular, who are fed up with endless lectures by bogus clerics and endless bullying."

Some Christians, however, say they see the rise in atheist literature as only a reaction to the rise of religious influence. Christianity is gaining more strength, with several victories gained throughout the year.

Examples include the growth of homeschooling and private Christian schools, limits put upon stem-cell research, and a ban on partial-birth abortions that occurred recently in the Supreme Court.

"It sort of dawned on the secular establishment that they might lose here," explained the Rev. Douglas Wilson, author of Letter from a Christian Citizen, in a debate on ChristianityToday.com. "All of this is happening precisely because there's a significant force that they have to deal with."

With the growth in the number of anti-religion books being sold, more are expected to come out on the market.

The report from AAP calculates its sales numbers by compiling data from the Bureau of the Census as well as sales data from “81 publishers inclusive of all major book publishing media market holders.” AAP estimated that U.S. publishers had net sales of $24.2 billion in 2006.

Religious books data were compiled in cooperation with statistics received from the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association (ECPA) – an international non-profit trade organization of 260 member companies worldwide that “promotes excellence” among Christian publishers.
(Source)

I'm getting tired of this us against them mentality....

But then again, I have this rather strong hatred of humans and humanity... it's all BS in the end.

I guess they leave a bad taste in your mouth (sorry couldn't resist the cross thread joke).

I've been trying to stave off a fire breathing monster myself.

We'll see how well it works.

That's why there's after baby sammich breath mints

I'm actually strongly tempted to just be a follower of Apathyism... because really, this is getting out of hand.

I would agree. It's unfortunate that articles intended to engender serious dialog are pounced and accused of being flame bait, in a forum wherein topics that question the mainstream thought, or traditional religious, are encouraged. Spirituality and skepticism is pretty clear, in what this forum is about. However, it often appears that topics that are not well received, because some think they have a right to object to anything of a skeptical nature, are attacked so as to intimidate participants by implying they shall receive more of the same if the discussion continues. I think that makes, in itself, a topic of it's own, when one is frightened by questions and those that dare to hold no faith, or different faiths, about such an awesomely diverse topic like god and faith.