For those who even believe in said - are allegedly angels who have fallen from grace or chosen to take the "dark path." They have the power to violate our home, attach themselves to our belongings, and torture us mentally and emotionally by attacking or even possessing our physical shell. Although there are supposed to be malicious spirits with similar capabilities, demonic behavior tends to escalate to the extreme.

Usually the most common complaints during a demonic visitation are a rotted egg or decaying flesh odor; menacing laughter; disembodied voices in foreign tongues such as Latin; verbal threats; objects being thrown; invisible hands grabbing or clawing; scratches and bruises on the body; a sensation of going insane; intense coldness in certain spots to where one can see their own breath; nightmares; consistently bad luck; and an overwhelming sense of hate, anger, evil, and death.

*If you do believe a demon is in your midst, and that you cannot eradicate its presence on your own, you can seek the assistance of a qualified individual such as a shaman or priest to eliminate the problem. Otherwise, most demonic entities are stimulated by challenge and are incredibly conniving; they can either convince you initially that they are "good" spirits or may even appear to be gone only to confront you again at the least expected and most vulnerable moment.

The question is it real?

YES!

I agree with Kroll.

YES









halfhandshuffle:The Doors-Hello, I Love You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x34wa2jehek

IT IS DEFINITELY REAL....

Yes, of course!

Nay!

Here we go again!

Demons exist whether you believe in them or not.

In my opinion, no.

I've never encountered anything in my life that needed the concept of "demon" to explain it. I have run into a lot of people who were using the concept of "demon" to explain things that I would have explained some other way. So I've never found the concept particularly helpful in my own life.

That doesn't mean that demons or something like them don't exist. Indeed, I've read about sightings of demonlike things from sources I consider credible. But judging from my experience, I don't think they could be common, and certainly not as pervasive an influence as some people think.

I'm still asking what use the concept is. What otherwise inexplicable events are best explained by the existence of demons? Anyone?

I think it's a scapegoat for people personally.

But that's just my opinion.

I like your Nesmith quote form "Tapioca Tundra", I believe. The running Wonder Woman is nice too.

You're right. "Demons" have definitely functioned as scapegoats. Of course, so have Communists, and they actually exist. So I'm still trying to figure out if the word "demon" refers to anything real, and if so, then what.

slightly off topic, but does anyone know the names of "real" books on demonology?

Ah, thank you! I have a Nez song in my profile too. I was in a Nez mood lately.



Are you asking my opinion? Stop being snarky, you curmudgeon.

Didn't mean that as snarky. I think you made an important point in saying that people have falsely blamed a lot of their problems on demons. I want to acknowledge that while still asking whether or not the things exist, or things resembling them anyway. I think if we can't discover any function for the concept other than the one you pointed out, then we might say that demons are just scapegoats for human foibles. I think it's a distinct possibility, sincerely, no snarkiness.

Oh, boo you're being all serious.

Well I think that's what they are for. I don't really believe in them. I think they're used just like you said, for humans to place blame. I personally have never seen proof that they do exist, so I can only go on my personal experience.

I guess I'm open though. If I did see something with my own eyes that I was sure couldn't be explained any other way. But so far, I never have.

What's your opinion on them?

Lol sometimes I can smell rotten eggs out of nowhere and I have heard menacing laughter a few times. I sometimes feel like I'm going insane but everyone feels that way sometimes. Whenever I heard a laugh I laugh back or spit at the sound. Only once I felt like my ankles had a hand around them I wasn't scare I just say outloud go touch someone else how sad you are. I don't know if I can say its demon cause I sometimes feel demons and aliens are the same. Maybe just a crazy ghost?

I do have a theory and thoughts about demons but that'll take too long to put into words here and it'll be off subject. To put it simple it's all just the mind's view.

I had a witch friend with tons of book about demons and such I can't remember any names but I can say at least half of them were just some guys money making thoughts. Just google demons you'll find some stuff but lots of made up stuff. I'm not sure if I would call them demons though just not sure about it. I do believe weak people attract them whether they make it up in there minds or not. If your strong you can brush them off.

*sigh* what is this obssession with 'Demons' in the first place? They don't exist in this plane, and what makes you think they can exist on this plane anyways? There are entities that can imitate other entities of some other 'species', they can take shape, or influence a person's consciousness enough because of fear or whatever expectation that matches, to make the other see what it wants. Almost all negative, chaotic, 'dark' entities are ugly, and look like 'monsters' because they've chosen to be "evil." HOWEVER, if a person's heart and mind is chaotic itself, and holds many fearful expectations, they will be consumed by their own fears and negativity, and if they so happen to see an 'entity' or feel something out of the ordinary that is paranormal, they will most likely twist the 'truth' of what is really there and see something horrifying. This is called paranoia. Why do you think some people go crazy? They torture themselves with negative energy and deplete their own innate sheilding and their own energy, while that attracts negative entities that like to cause trouble. Not everything is what a person expects it to be. There are more troubling matters than 'demons' in this world, and other strong beings that actually exists on this plane. So, I'd suggest to hold the embellishments of terror, and learn 'reality' of this world and your own heart and mind first before running around chasing beings that might seem like 'real demons'.

Whos chasing demons? How do we know they don't exist here maybe we can't see the full plane of this reality? I can say I have a chaotic mind and heart, but I don't fear I feel so at peace. I don't get paranoid when I hear things it don't phase me I know some people who have heard laughter with me and I can see the horror in there face but I don't feel that. I have tons of "nightmares" and see monsters in my dreams I know people would freak out over. But I feel at peace in these "nightmares". I rarely get scare. This is a chaotic universe chaos is law for me but thats just me.

Most people don't always react that way Silentshadow. I'm talking about those who are being paranoid, those who may or may not understand what they are doing to themselves when they let their issues and fears get to them. I won't discount that there are many people who don't always know how to handle their fears, nor have them resolved.
I'd also like to encourage people to see what is really there, not imagine things from their fears and chaotic mind and heart, and from fearful expectations.
In order for a person to heal and progress, they need to deal and heal their issues and fears before exposing themselves to more harmful energy and entities, and to stop themselves from fueling their own negativity. That is if they choose to get better and heal themselves. It really is up to each individual's choice.

Well, it does seem to me that people dream them up for various reasons, mainly the one you pointed out-- something to blame their personal problems and feelings on. I feel pretty sure that people do that.

What I'm not sure of is the factual basis, if any, for these imaginary scapegoats. In other words, did "demons" enter the human imagination via sightings of real creatures? An account of such a sighting is given in The Hunt for the Skinwalker. Two members of an scientifically-trained investigation team witnessed the event, but only one was in a position to clearly see any details. And what he says he saw conforms exactly to the classic description of a demon. Both witnesses even smelled sulphur.

Other strange events at the site (and there were plenty) were devoid of any particular religious overtones. Instead, they were suggestive of some kind of "portal" into another place, dimension, level, frequency, or what have you. The entities responsible certainly seemed mischievous and sometimes downright malevolent, but all of the associated phenomena seemed completely neutral with respect to religion. I think that would tend to support the idea that perhaps people have seen these things throughout history and called them demons or devils and fit them into their religious frames of reference.

Then again, it could be the other way around. It could be that these creatures, whether somewhat real or wholly imagined, take their appearance entirely from the observer's own frame of reference, in effect showing us what is already in our minds-- what we expect to see. According to this hypothesis, people may have dreamed up demons first and then started seeing them. I don't think so, though. I think it was more likely the other way around. The reason is that the phenomena at the site in question refused to conform to anyone's expectations or fit into any coherent, human frame of reference. Other than "demons," members of mainstream religious pantheons and bestiaries were conspicuously absent. This makes me lean toward the idea that these things are what they are, and human beings invent certain beliefs about them. It does not seem that the belief creates the things.

So if "demon" refers to anything real, or is based on anything real, then I don't think it exactly fits the religious concepts, like "fallen angels," enemies of Christ, and so on. If they're anything outside of human imagination, then I think they must be creatures from somewhere else, creatures whose appearance has informed human mythology. If that's the case, then that mythological concept of "demon" is inaccurate and not helpful.

That's what I tend to think, but if someone has other information, I'd like to hear it.

Yep. Another demon thread. Where everyone covers their ears with their hands and yell "NO, NO! DEMONS ARE REAL!!1!".

Goody.

While others cover their eyes an yell ”NO, NO! DEMONS ARE NOT REAL”

hi!
doesn't that alone make them real enough...who cares what we call them?..... and I have said from the start that these entities often will attempt to use our own superstitions as a veil to concele an ulterior motive or perhaps just for their own warped entertainment.......B






halfhandshuffle:Smashing Pumpkins-"Zero"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJOGq5XTojo

Yea Misa I agree there are those who bring it upon themself with there fear and chaotic mind set. They let it get the out of control and thus call forth there own monsters. I notice that some of the things I feel/see are collected energies of people's fear and paranoia that become into being with such vast uncontrol energies waves. But some people don't seem to wanna face it and remain in there place.

As with boorite I also feel some "demons" aren't create from beliefs and fear though they might use our mind's view of things to present itself. I'm at a lost to describe these as demon/alien/creature. I'm not sure what to make of these. Maybe its humans who have gone deep in the darkness and thus become something else. I hear stories from my native family here in Arizona about people who lives in caves and have markings all over there face and body. That they hunt animals and even humans for dark rituals and such. That they have become demon like.

But who knows? The mind is a powerful tool.

I smell rotten eggs and hear evil laughter sometimes....

But usually it's my husband!

muchos grande riot!.....B

Where ever there is good, there is evil. There is no good without evil. Our universe is based on balence.. we can't have one without the other. I see it on a number scale (as someone explained this to me recently) if there is a positive seven of goodness, there is also a negative seven of evil. Both ends are infinity. For every extreme there is a positive there is also the same extreme of its opposite, evil. imo, of course.

I love your Spanish, Barek. Que risa me da.

Lol you sure he ain't no demon

I had never in my life felt or saw anything demonic..Its not that I really didnt believe it, its just I wasn't convinced completely and really never gave it any thought. In my opinion there is not other explanation, for the horrid things they can inflict upon human beings. They can enter a home with a "good spirit" they can attach themselves to people, places and things. There are cases where a person invites it in, which where the term "sell your soul to the devil" comes in. Other times it could be a Ouija Board, Tarot Cards, physic readings, and those who practice what I call black magic. I never saw a "creature" or anything in my home, not by a long shot. ALl I did know was that this place was haunted, and really didnt give it much thought till I was injured so many times, ended up in ER three times, heard noises that were NOT human, or animal. There was a smell of either death, cigarette smoke (in my bed) ammonia, and voices coming out of the radio, fan and TV Black orbs and images all over my ceilings in whatever room I was in. IT talked on the phone and two people here even heard it, but I didnt. Initially I just thought I was talking to a ghost and thought it was pretty cool, TILL it struck the first time and kept it up. Anything I have ever done in my life, I take full responsibilty for, but I have never been mean or cruel to anyone, as I was in nursing for so many years, I am more of the caretaker. But this thing came in and took over, like it owned the place..It was the most terrorizing thing I have ever been through. Even though the home was exorcized, some of the after affects are not nice either. I am not telling you this to change your mind or to convince you, but more to explain they DO exist, and they are all over the place. To me the concept itself sounded insane, and in a way it is, it is too surreal and unbelievable for the human brain to even acknowlege. I sort of walked around for a few weeks thinking it would go away, or that if I walked carefully and prayed I would be okay, but I was sadly mistaken. It does take an expert at least once or twice to clean it out. One more visit, and I never want to ever talk about this again..JN

Ye ? avoid watching most hunted 7 hours straight.
How are you gonna recover?

@Sunni: I agree with your statement.
@JN: Tarot cards and the Ouiji Board is not "black magick", they are simply tools to channel energy. Tarot being a type of divination that usually relies on intuition/instinct and the cards help give the intuition a direction of the reading. While the Ouiji Board is more an opening for spirits to channel through partially into the physical plane. Those who don't know what they are doing, at times end up with unwanted spirits causing them trouble. "Psychic readings" isn't 'black magick' either, it relies on instincts/intuition as well. Though one can argue that at times if another depends on the readings too heavily, it can be a 'bad' thing, but I would think that everything should be taken with a grain of salt.
Smells from out of the blue can also come from other spirits, where they've taken the scent of something they are attached with from their lives before, and they recreate it in their energy by their attachment. Like cigarette smoke, or cologne, etc. Or it could happen to be that certain spirits uses scent to get the living person's attention.
Besides, there are all kinds of people out there in the world, not all of them 'good', nor 'bad', and passing on into the 'spirit plane' doesn't always change that.

Sometimes I wonder...

Que pasta!

As in spaghetti???

JustNormal: Thanks for the response. I sometimes wonder if malevolent spirits like the one you struggled with might be split-off, alienated portions of the self, or if they are really independent entities. If the latter, I wonder where they come from and what they want. Anyway, if I encountered a malevolent, intelligent, nonhuman spirit, I might be inclined to call it a demon. So many people are willing to say that demons exist, but relatively few will put their own stories out there. Thanks again for doing that.

There's "Interview With An Exorcist" by Jose Antonio Fortea.

I don't believe in them. Never encountered anything that might be demonic. But I know several demonologists who I respect and they very ardently insist demons are real. I take them at thier word based on thier professionalism.

I'd be just as happy never to encounter anything demonic.

Yeah you are right. Along with the easter bunny and nessie.

For many years people didn't believe in germs. Even when microscopic life was discovered people, including doctors, didn't believe that something so small could harm much less kill you. But today we take germs as an unquestionable fact of life.

Hi Boor, I never considered it demonic especially at first, as it started out 2 years ago with with poltergeist activity. Being psychic all my life, I was sort of used to that. But after I had breast surgery last May and in hospital for months with a bad staph infection was finally released. A few nights later I heard a loud CRASH and was talking to my niece on phone from AZ at the time, and wanted to see what fell. I walked slowly down the stairs and was literally pushed down 3 of them and landed on my side, all bruised. I couldnt feel a hand or anything but a lunge. I just shrugged it off as maybe all the medicine I was on, but it escalated to a huge degree, the sicker I became the stronger it became. As I had said the talking thru the radio is what kept me up at night and my son. So used a digital voice recorder to listen to exactly "who" it was. It took all that time to find a local team of investigators who came out this past April to discover through smells, pictures and EVP's the evil nature of this beast. The demonoligist who came out a few weeks ago, concurred that it was demonic whether it be from bi-location or that at some point it snuck in when I was reading someone. Anyone who is "open" can have a demonic monster latch on to them. The attacks were personal, and the footage he wont let me see, but said they have to come out at least one more time. You are correct that many throw the word "demon" around and use it lightly, however live through its wrath and you would feel otherwise as would they. I was told that by talking to it and listening to it on the recorder is where it gained its stength, and seemed to feed off the fact it was finally acknowledged. As I said, these are very diabolical, and "can" be very dangerous. Thanks JN

You can say that of anything. Doesn't change anything. People believe what they want. I use logic to determine what is real. That or hard proof.

Sorry, Guess I worded that incorrectly. I meant in essence that anyone who is "open" can be a victim at any given time. I know all about Ouijas and Tarot cards, they are not harmful themselves, but they can openly let anything in, they are simply tools. Black magic is my term used for anything such as devil worshipping, things of that nature. I totally understand the spiritual world, always have. On the anniversary of my friends death I got a strong odor of paint, but it was night before Thanksgiving and it didnt even occur to me till later, that was her anniversary. I used the odors lightly, there was NO cologne, there was nothing nice, or regular about the smell of death, burned flesh, rotten food, howls, yells and black etc. I wont go into anymore because I have told my story, but I know now what it was, and I am still enduring some of the after effects. I was told there were 2 other spirits here, one male, one female, but the demonologist does not harm them in the process. But there is a HUGE difference between a "not nice person" in life, to a demonic maniac...

No because it was eventually proven scientifically to be true. But someone somewhere (probably amoung young "Maverick" doctors) questioned the established way of thinking, performed experiments and proved that microscopic life (and dirt/filth) can cause illness/disease and death. Now we take it as SOP.

One of the problems (or benefits?) is that demonic and paranormal activity doesn't happen to everyone. Most people will go through thier whole lives and never encounter anything demonic or paranormal. Doesn't mean it still can't be real.

Admitting/accepting that something might be real or possible isn't the same as saying you believe it is real. So you can safely agree with me and still be a skeptic.

In my opinion there is no place for logic or science, when it comes to death and drying, or an "afterlife" spirits or demons. You are correct, the majority of folks have never and will never have anything paranormal in their life, however I would bet that just about "everyone" who has lost a loved one, friend or child can attest that they either contacted them, came to them, gave strong scents and things of that nature. I have no idea on the statistics of demonic hauntings, but I tend to believe due to what I was told by the demonoligst, there is alot more out there than any of us know about. He has been doing this for over 20 years, and still has close to 80 cases pending all over the states and Canada. One must endure grueling interviews, photos, EVP stories and a visit before he can get approval of the church. I think like I used to be, most of us dont want to believe it, why would we? It is too terrifying to even comprehend..JN

Just because anything may be possible doesn't mean it is probable. Since I am an agnostic , I hope that one day this field will be proven. Until then, I shall wait.

Thats a sad statement and one many believers have. If you can't use logic then you and this feild will never be taken seriously.